Official Kingdom Hearts Thread

[I.D.W. Shockwave]

Could this series be any more dead? Fuck Nomura, you illogical bastard, you just had to fuck up 3 with your spite for Square. I wouldn't be surprised if he purposefully omitted most of the Final Fantasy stuff from 3 out of sheer petty spite for being booted off the Fabula Nova Crystalis projects. We should have gotten Radiant Garden as a mid point world just like in 2, with the Radiant Garden Restoration Committee and the apprentices of Ansem the Wise working together now to defend the place from the Organization, as well as bringing Roxas back. The Norse Mythology stuff is especially retarded, considering this series started with almost explicit Christian symbology, so go back to that and make the Realm of Darkness the uppermost layer of Hell you old hack. I genuinely am coming to despise this man and I hope he gets booted from the series as a final fuck you.

 

[LopsidedLegend]

Could this series be any more dead? Fuck Nomura, you illogical bastard, you just had to fuck up 3 with your spite for Square. I wouldn't be surprised if he purposefully omitted most of the Final Fantasy stuff from 3 out of sheer petty spite for being booted off the Fabula Nova Crystalis projects. We should have gotten Radiant Garden as a mid point world just like in 2, with the Radiant Garden Restoration Committee and the apprentices of Ansem the Wise working together now to defend the place from the Organization, as well as bringing Roxas back. The Norse Mythology stuff is especially retarded, considering this series started with almost explicit Christian symbology, so go back to that and make the Realm of Darkness the uppermost layer of Hell you old hack. I genuinely am coming to despise this man and I hope he gets booted from the series as a final fuck you.

Nomura also doesn't understand that the ending of a trilogy built up over 2 decades needs to have an actual fucking ending. Even the MCU gave Endgame an actual ending. The fact 2 was the only game in the series to have an ending also proves why 2 is the best one. 1, com, coded and ddd all end in cliffhangers too along with 3. 2 on the other hand ends. While it does indeed leave the story with a possibility for more games with the secret ending and bottled letter. It ultimately concludes the characters journeys up until that point. 3 doesn't do that and goes back to cliffhanger mode. MCU also has mostly cliffhanger endings. But while Endgame was a lousy final movie if it ended there nobody would have been upset as they are now. Plus the actual ending itself, also being the first ending the mcu had since iron man. Was good. Kingdom Hearts issue is like the MCU it's ultimately afraid of creating an ending. No doubt if kh4 comes out it will end with MoM actually being a stand-in who is just some nobody possessed by Xehanort's left testicle and the real MoM is actually a good guy hidden within the super totes actually real this time were serious guys please believe us Kingdom Hearts to be revealed in a prequel to hype up Kingdom Hearts 5 called Kingdom Hearts Memories of the Heart of the Cards of Light For Sora Donald Goofy Must Conquer The Darkness In Their Sleepy Dreams Refinalmix+.5HD to be revealed in a gamescomm trailer that comes out right after the heat death of the universe.

 

[I.D.W. Shockwave]

I think the most genuinely subversive twist to KH4, would be Sora, around the start of the game, just wandering around in Quadratum until he stumbles upon some true crime shit, eventually forgetting about the insane KH magic shit. This would then result in Sora growing up, getting a pretty but loyal wife, having a family, getting a nice job, playing video games on the side with his family as a hobby, even joining an organized religion (Christianity). Eventually, when the KH shit comes knocking back on his door, demanding he get involved in the craziness, Sora, now a grown ass man with a good life and genuinely good family, just tells it all to FUCK OFF FAGGOTS

 

[Party Hat Wurmple]

Could this series be any more dead? Fuck Nomura, you illogical bastard, you just had to fuck up 3 with your spite for Square.

KH3 was never supposed to be an ending. It was supposed to be a jumping off point for the next arc of the story and an end to an arc. Nomura already had some plans for post KH3 material and that was made very clear before it even released. Nomura recently said in the wake of his birthday, the ending of KH was coming. He had maybe 2 games left in him to end the series before he retires. I'm not defending his decisions, but he clearly never intended 3 to be an ending.

As much as I love hating on the retard, it's hard to really blame him for the current state of affairs. He clearly had a plan for more, no matter how retarded it was. It's not like Nomura could've predicted AAA gaming being on the verge of collapse, Square tanking as a company, and the PS5 fucking bombing. I hope he's paying attention though because KH5 at this point is a pipe dream and he'll be lucky to get 4 out the door. I hope he sees the writing on the wall and knows he HAS to wrap it up here.

 

[Lone Star]

KH3 was never supposed to be an ending. It was supposed to be a jumping off point for the next arc of the story and an end to an arc.

Yeah, he outright said Kingdom Hearts III was the end of the "Xehanort Saga" before it even came out, so people that assumed it was the series finale just weren't paying attention.

 

[Gravityqueen4life]

GIVE ME STRENGTH!

 

[starborn427614]

KH3 was never supposed to be an ending. It was supposed to be a jumping off point for the next arc of the story and an end to an arc. Nomura already had some plans for post KH3 material and that was made very clear before it even released. Nomura recently said in the wake of his birthday, the ending of KH was coming. He had maybe 2 games left in him to end the series before he retires. I'm not defending his decisions, but he clearly never intended 3 to be an ending.

As much as I love hating on the retard, it's hard to really blame him for the current state of affairs. He clearly had a plan for more, no matter how retarded it was. It's not like Nomura could've predicted AAA gaming being on the verge of collapse, Square tanking as a company, and the PS5 fucking bombing. I hope he's paying attention though because KH5 at this point is a pipe dream and he'll be lucky to get 4 out the door. I hope he sees the writing on the wall and knows he HAS to wrap it up here.

Hopefully he has a protégé or something, because I can't see him directing more than two or three KH4 level games before he retires. Missing-Link getting cancelled already felt like a sign that the series was entering some sort of retirement phase.

 

[Party Hat Wurmple]

Hopefully he has a protégé or something, because I can't see him directing more than two or three KH4 level games before he retires. Missing-Link getting cancelled already felt like a sign that the series was entering some sort of retirement phase.

I have a very strong feeling 4 is the end. Square is just not doing well as a company overall and I don't see the FF7 Remake saving it. I don't see Disney saving it either. I think Nomura might've wanted two more games, but I really have a feeling that this and a big beefy DLC are all he'll get.

 

[LopsidedLegend]

Yeah, he outright said Kingdom Hearts III was the end of the "Xehanort Saga" before it even came out, so people that assumed it was the series finale just weren't paying attention.

And then Melody of Memories became a thing and not even that part remained true. Unfortunately the Xehanort Saga didn't end with an epic final battle between Sora where you had to fight all of Xehanorts alternative selves including three previous final bosses all to meet his clones in a recreation of his and Eraqus' hometown, to single out the real Xehanort and weaken his armor as he warped the world until all that remained was some light grid for floor. For him to then steal your light halfway only for you to get it back to finally finish him off. Only for you to canonically die and be brought back with the power of friendship and finish him off with a giant laser beam.

No. The real finale of the Xehanort Saga is Kairi farting around in Finny Fun the video game.

 

[Lone Star]

And then Melody of Memories became a thing and not even that part remained true. Unfortunately the Xehanort Saga didn't end with an epic final battle between Sora where you had to fight all of Xehanorts alternative selves including three previous final bosses all to meet his clones in a recreation of his and Eraqus' hometown, to single out the real Xehanort and weaken his armor as he warped the world until all that remained was some light grid for floor. For him to then steal your light halfway only for you to get it back to finally finish him off. Only for you to canonically die and be brought back with the power of friendship and finish him off with a giant laser beam.

No. The real finale of the Xehanort Saga is Kairi farting around in Finny Fun the video game.

I just assumed that was like, a bridge rather than being part of either Saga.

 

[Retarded Weeb]

Reminder

 

[00R-Gundam]

For me the series should habe ended in 2 story wise. You defeat the OrgXIII, save the world and the ending with the bottle with king mickey sign was the perfect ending. Yet Nomura decided to keep expanding shit and we got recoded, DDD, the mobile game(and dark path) melody of memory and 3. Dont get me wrong i can respect wanting to build the world and explain why things operate as they are, but considering nomura suffers from "doesnt know when to end the story" he just keeps adding stuff and complicating shit needlessly.

I want to believe that somehow KH4 will unfuck the series from its current stagnation brought by KH3. Im cautiously optimistic, but with grounded expectations.

 

[Michael Wade]

When mid February comes and there's no trailer, then you have my permission to black pill

 

[LopsidedLegend]

I just assumed that was like, a bridge rather than being part of either Saga.

A bridge to where exactly? 4 doesn't exist yet. The bridge leads nowhere. A bridge in any other series, is made AFTER, the games it's a bridge between. See, Resident Evil Revelations or Dead Space Extraction for what a bridge actually is. What you call a bridge is what Dead Space 3's terrible DLC did. And guess where that bridge to nowhere ended? Right... Don't support bridges which have yet to lead you to your destination.

It's a side game which revives Xehanort to ruin his perfect finale from 3 in order to lead to 4 and because Nomura also doesn't actually know how to do sidegames everything which happens will magically be important to the plot of the next game. Similar to how Xemnas' battle in KH1FM a fight 90% of the original games' players never even had access to, is referenced in vanilla KH2 despite the majority of players having 0 context for it even if they played Chain of Memories. Kingdom Hearts' story is just like the MCU Disney also owns. Always bringing up random bullshit from a side venture that everyone correctly avoided and now is alienated by sequels constantly forcing them to go back to understand shit. "Ahh you see, it's your fault for not understanding Dr. Doom's evil plan. If you watch the Twerking scene from the She-Hulk show it's revealed..."

Compare this to Resident Evil or Dead Space. If I play Resident Evil mainline I understand what's going on in every single game because Capcom understands what show don't tell means. I'm not 5 years old I can look at things and figure them out. I'm a big boy you know (that's btw, also why so much shonen is filled with random exposition about some guys special attack, they're made for little kids so the writing is designed for people who lack brain cells) . If I play a side game's franchise I also understand what's going on. As long as I play games in order I understand the general plot. So Resident Evil 1-3, then Code Veronica, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 and eventually 9. Yes Grace might be the daughter of a character from Outbreak, but outside of providing fanservice to hardcore fans by referencing the game's existence I don't need to play Outbreak to understand what's going on. I play a woman who's shaky after her mother was murdered and she must return to her mother's murder location to solve some mystery. Evil bad guy infected everyone at the place, which includes Leon as well. Leon and the evil bad guy must find Grace and obtain a cure from within her blood. Dead zombies mutate like Crimson Heads from RE1 for Grace because in the trailer they reveal she has an item designed to prevent this mechanic. And even if I never played RE1 I could tell from the introduction to that being a mechanic which exists, that enemies would come back stronger and attack me if I don't use it. I understand, just from the trailer, what I'm buying. I know what I need to from the trailer, without being spoiled past what I need to see. Provided some Somalian doesn't get the game a day early and upload it all to YT again. (Fuck AWS being so easy to hack).

Kingdom Hearts 1 remains the only well written game in the series because Nomura doesn't understand that a story should be good on its own and not need 20,000 other side games, half of which don't even exist yet, to understand. That's the issue with Kingdom Hearts. Not that the side games are important. They're important in Resident Evil as well as Dead Space too. But where those series fill in lore gaps to bridge to games which are already out. Nomura bridges to nowhere. What if Chain of Memories was the last game? What if Dream Drop Distance was the last game? What if Melody of Memory remains the last game? Then those bridges lead to nowhere and forever will. Notice however, that 358/2 Days could have been the last game though and it wouldn't be so bad? That's because that's an actual bridge, it goes from Kingdom Hearts 1, which already existed, to Kingdom Hearts 2, which also already existed. The bridge actually led somewhere day 1. Viola, a proper bridge in Kingdom Hearts.

 

[Ravana]

I don't know if I even care to continue without Xehanort tbh.

 

[Retarded Weeb]

For me, I think all the games up through BBS had standalone enough stories.

• KH1 is obviously completely understandable played blind, and it ends with an "the adventure continues" type of ending since Riku and Mickey are still lost in the Realm of Darkness, but the main villain is beaten and main conflict resolved so it feels fairly conclusive.
• Chain of Memories would be a little hard to get everything without playing KH1 even if you read all the journal entries for context and the ending is technically meant to lead into KH2, but the main conflict is entirely self-contained and all the on-screen villains are defeated by the end, with only some vague hints at other yet-to-be-introduced villains existing.
• KH2 obviously requires playing the previous games to immediately get everything, but I don't think it's as bad as people who bitched about needing to play CoM characterize it as. It's played after only gotten a few floors into CoM at the time and I felt like I followed along with everything except being a little confused on who DiZ is (but he's also meant to be mysterious, so whatever). My brother played the game with his only context being the first half-hour or so of KH1, and he followed along well enough. I think the whole Roxas segment at the start was actually a really good idea, since both newcomers and oldcomers alike are just as confused as Roxas is, though for different reasons, which means the way the plot is taken isn't too far apart for different players. And the plot ends pretty conclusively, with only vague hints at plot threads that could be pulled on.
• 358/2 Days kind of just throws you into things if you didn't play previous games, but I guess to be fair if you're playing it, you probably played at least one before. The actual main plot is pretty self-contained though with you following Roxas from when he's just born and literally has to have basic setting mechanics explained to him, introducing the new character Xion, and ending with Xion's death and Roxas's capture that leads directly into the start of KH2.
• Birth By Sleep starts getting more complicated with setting details and fanservice plot connections, but it's a prequel set a good amount of time before KH1 and with an entirely new cast of characters, so there's not that much knowledge gap between a newcomer and oldcomer, and it ends in tragic kind of way where the heroes are in bad spots, but the main conflict is basically resolved and if you want to know what happened to the villains later you can play KH1 and KH2.
• Re: coded's plot is basically filler, so whatever.
• Dream Drop Distance is where I think there's real problems and you could perhaps argue the series starts going up its own ass. The beginning is needlessly presented in an intentionally confusing way, lacking context as to what's going on until you watch some flashback cutscenes, and the middle is filled with old and new villains suddenly appearing with no explanation to spout cryptic nonsense before leaving. Eventually it leads to the time travel twist plus other twists that all exist just to have a big clusterfuck of returning characters who should be dead and pile-up of old sequel-bait plot threads, and then the game ends with a pure cliffhanger to lead into KH3, with the only big plot resolution being Riku becoming a Keyblade Master (which mostly means he doesn't get much focus in KH3 because his character arc about seeking redemption is over).
• And KH3 suffers both from continuing directly off of DDD's ending, which makes it so have to play it and older games to really understand what's going on right off the bat, and because DDD basically stole potential plot points for the first and second acts of KH3's plot, a lot of the game ends being effectively filler to keep Sora from initiating the third act of the story until you've playing around in the Disney world long enough. And even once the plot picks up in the back section of it, the resolution to the Xehanort stuff is distracted from by the all the Chi stuff because of Nomura getting antsy to move onto KH4's plot that he had been setting up in the mobile game, which you would've had to play/watch to understand those scenes in KH3.
• Melody of Memories is basically just two cutscenes at the end which serve as a little extention to KH3's DLC. It's practically a teaser for KH4 (which is also what half of KH3's DLC was), no reason to really go into it much.

 

[Celebrate Nite]

The problem is that the story keeps splitting onto different company consoles. Excluding the 1.5 and 2.5 collections (which in itself has additional bullshit), you would have to bounce back between Sony and Nintendo to get the full story.

Imagine Mario having deeper lore than it already does and you have to bounce back not only between the consoles and handhelds but they are all from different companies like Sony or Sega. The handheld mario games were always treated as their own side thing, especially when they started propping up Wario for his own thing. The paper and saga series have always been their own thing, and while they have elements that relate to the main games (i.e. the characters), they have no effect on the progress of the main console games themselves. Nobody plays New 3DLand and thinks "oh shit this is a prequel to Odyssey".

The reason why a lot of people were "wtf??" with KH2 is because it was released on the same console as the first game, so the reasonable logic would be that it would be a DIRECT link. But instead we have a card game that rehashes the first game that is the bridge between 1 and 2, so if you want the FULL story, you have to play KH1 TWICE with different mechanics. That's not good storytelling at all.

 

[LopsidedLegend]

The problem is that the story keeps splitting onto different company consoles. Excluding the 1.5 and 2.5 collections (which in itself has additional bullshit), you would have to bounce back between Sony and Nintendo to get the full story.

Imagine Mario having deeper lore than it already does and you have to bounce back not only between the consoles and handhelds but they are all from different companies like Sony or Sega. The handheld mario games were always treated as their own side thing, especially when they started propping up Wario for his own thing. The paper and saga series have always been their own thing, and while they have elements that relate to the main games (i.e. the characters), they have no effect on the progress of the main console games themselves. Nobody plays New 3DLand and thinks "oh shit this is a prequel to Odyssey".

The reason why a lot of people were "wtf??" with KH2 is because it was released on the same console as the first game, so the reasonable logic would be that it would be a DIRECT link. But instead we have a card game that rehashes the first game that is the bridge between 1 and 2, so if you want the FULL story, you have to play KH1 TWICE with different mechanics. That's not good storytelling at all.

Agreed.

• KH1 is obviously completely understandable played blind, and it ends with an "the adventure continues" type of ending since Riku and Mickey are still lost in the Realm of Darkness, but the main villain is beaten and main conflict resolved so it feels fairly conclusive.
• Chain of Memories would be a little hard to get everything without playing KH1 even if you read all the journal entries for context and the ending is technically meant to lead into KH2, but the main conflict is entirely self-contained and all the on-screen villains are defeated by the end, with only some vague hints at other yet-to-be-introduced villains existing.
• KH2 obviously requires playing the previous games to immediately get everything, but I don't think it's as bad as people who bitched about needing to play CoM characterize it as. It's played after only gotten a few floors into CoM at the time and I felt like I followed along with everything except being a little confused on who DiZ is (but he's also meant to be mysterious, so whatever). My brother played the game with his only context being the first half-hour or so of KH1, and he followed along well enough. I think the whole Roxas segment at the start was actually a really good idea, since both newcomers and oldcomers alike are just as confused as Roxas is, though for different reasons, which means the way the plot is taken isn't too far apart for different players. And the plot ends pretty conclusively, with only vague hints at plot threads that could be pulled on.
• 358/2 Days kind of just throws you into things if you didn't play previous games, but I guess to be fair if you're playing it, you probably played at least one before. The actual main plot is pretty self-contained though with you following Roxas from when he's just born and literally has to have basic setting mechanics explained to him, introducing the new character Xion, and ending with Xion's death and Roxas's capture that leads directly into the start of KH2.
• Birth By Sleep starts getting more complicated with setting details and fanservice plot connections, but it's a prequel set a good amount of time before KH1 and with an entirely new cast of characters, so there's not that much knowledge gap between a newcomer and oldcomer, and it ends in tragic kind of way where the heroes are in bad spots, but the main conflict is basically resolved and if you want to know what happened to the villains later you can play KH1 and KH2.
• Re: coded's plot is basically filler, so whatever.
• Dream Drop Distance is where I think there's real problems and you could perhaps argue the series starts going up its own ass. The beginning is needlessly presented in an intentionally confusing way, lacking context as to what's going on until you watch some flashback cutscenes, and the middle is filled with old and new villains suddenly appearing with no explanation to spout cryptic nonsense before leaving. Eventually it leads to the time travel twist plus other twists that all exist just to have a big clusterfuck of returning characters who should be dead and pile-up of old sequel-bait plot threads, and then the game ends with a pure cliffhanger to lead into KH3, with the only big plot resolution being Riku becoming a Keyblade Master (which mostly means he doesn't get much focus in KH3 because his character arc about seeking redemption is over).
• And KH3 suffers both from continuing directly off of DDD's ending, which makes it so have to play it and older games to really understand what's going on right off the bat, and because DDD basically stole potential plot points for the first and second acts of KH3's plot, a lot of the game ends being effectively filler to keep Sora from initiating the third act of the story until you've playing around in the Disney world long enough. And even once the plot picks up in the back section of it, the resolution to the Xehanort stuff is distracted from by the all the Chi stuff because of Nomura getting antsy to move onto KH4's plot that he had been setting up in the mobile game, which you would've had to play/watch to understand those scenes in KH3.
• Melody of Memories is basically just two cutscenes at the end which serve as a little extention to KH3's DLC. It's practically a teaser for KH4 (which is also what half of KH3's DLC was), no reason to really go into it much.

So, we have 9 games. Of which 4 are bridges between games and 1 is a prequel and 1 is a side game. Of the bridge games only 358/2 Days actually led somewhere upon creation. The other 3 bridges had yet to have their destinations exist prior. The games constantly hopped between various properties between two manufacturers before Square Enix finally said "FUCK IT" and released them all on every major platform. None of the DS games got a playable remaster either, which means if you want them to be more than a glorified cutscene you have to buy a DS and copy of the game. Or sail the seven seas. The DS also has pretty horrible controls, which is why the games have their convoluted deck systems compared to the much easier combat decks of BBS and DDD. Of the games, 1 had the best story, 2 had the best gameplay, and 3 had the best super bosses. Everything else just had little nuggets here and there that people enjoyed.

The games aren't bad. I wouldn't even open up about the series if I wasn't a fan. But they're very much anticonsumer with how they release them.

 

[Birthday Cat]

I don't know if I even care to continue without Xehanort tbh.

even as originally a kh plot defender, the *true* evil twist has been done way too fucking much and is set up to be resolved just pulling a kingdom hearts 3, again, of everyone banding together and fighting the real bad guy, for real this time, and likely, again, losing/nearly, but friendship/light just wins. there's not another way of doing it. whole thing's just literally the fucking naruto obito endgame.

another problem that's borderline worse to me is how "equalized" everybody is. like sure, riku being a edgelord forever would be kind of retarded, but he doesn't even have any dark-ish attacks or style anymore, after that being his entire character arc, AND also making him more unique/fun to play as. a good "bad" guy and attacks/techniques that nobody else could do because he's learned gray instead of light/dark. moral dark knight to sora's paladin. now sora and him are the same, they look way too samey, ever since they completely redesigned him for kh3d to be much younger and have far shorter hair. kairi's just an "i can do it now too!" along with axel. she also was made much younger looking and more independent, and less into sora.

speaking the fuck of, i'd like to vent one thing, and here's about the only place i can besides a yt rant; you want to know what i think one of the most retarded things in the story is? no, none of the xehanort plot, it's the kairi/axel training arc. they get a pocket dimension that stretches time into near infinity, ie 5 minutes here could be hours in there or longer etc. so... kairi and axel go in there. alone. no sora insisting he goes, no kairi wanting him there/insisting so, just nearly the exact same plot they did of spider man's mary jane and paul. it's just very weirdly cuck coded to supposedly not be so and pushed as a series to forcibly minimize romantic elements. in general they just turned her into a unrelated female protag with a redesign named kairi instead of the paopu fruit promise/romantic drama, alongside riku just being "that nigga" now, with no struggles or problems or identity, while sora is just a mid tier developmentally stunted retard for 6-7 games now, when he's not in a coma or killing himself, that wins because the plot needs him to

 

[Retarded Weeb]

The DS also has pretty horrible controls, which is why the games have their convoluted deck systems compared to the much easier combat decks of BBS and DDD. Of the games,

Correction: Days had horrible controls because it was trying to play like KH1 on a DS. Re;coded was the only one of the two with a command deck system, and it was the best implementation of that system over the stupid unbalanced shit in BBS or DDD, making it the KH spin-off with the best gameplay.