Mega Rad Gun Thread

[Badungus Kabungus]

Anyone tried these? Worth getting over CCI Standard?

 

[Panama]

It does. AFAIK the .357 memegles have the most issues and you need a lot of pressure for it to cycle.

It’s especially the Mk XIX 357s with issues. They went with a single size of slide and barrel for all three cartridges, and the 44 and 357 suffered for it. My Mk XIX 44 never ran right, but the ‘89 Mk I that replaced it ran flawlessly, as does the ‘84 MK I 357 I picked up later.

Memegles are fun as hell, and a simultaneously awesome and retarded solution to a problem that never existed. Being able to double tap full power 44 mag will never get old.

 

[Considered HARMful]

Anyone tried these? Worth getting over CCI Standard?

Isn't Hornady ammo awfully expensive?

 

[Badungus Kabungus]

Isn't Hornady ammo awfully expensive?

Depends where you get it, but I found a couple of places that sell it for nearly the same cost as CCI Standard, if not even a little cheaper. Their centerfire stuff is solid, always performs as advertised. Just not sure about rimfire, there's some buzz of it being made by other vendors. May just get 500 rounds to play around.

Update: Fuck it, bought 2k of those to supplement my dwindling supply of CCI Standards. Worst case scenario I'll sell 'em for twice as much in a year.

 

[Uranus Pink]

.50AE isn't a rimmed cartridge, though, and I've always wondered if that makes a difference. (in a positive way, I mean)

For autistic reasons professional and wildcat refuse to developed rimless versions of revolver and lever-action rimmed cartridges like the .44 Magnum.

 

[Krinkler1984]

The .44 Magnum would be nice I think, I hear the recoil is quite easy. For .50AE, it's got its appeal I think, as long as one understands that real life isn't Counter-Strike or Call Of Duty, a big Magnum cartridge is just fun on its own. Wouldn't mind a BFR in .50AE

If you go for the Eagle, be sure to only use completely jacketed bullets, otherwise you'll gunk up the gas system within one or two boxes of ammo.

 

[Panama]

If you go for the Eagle, be sure to only use completely jacketed bullets, otherwise you'll gunk up the gas system within one or two boxes of ammo.

TMJ, soft point, or hollow point. The critical part to avoid is exposed lead at the base of the bullet, a small amount of which will vaporize with each shot and deposit in the gas system. Bad, but can be used with VERY frequent cleaning with the correct solvent. Most pistol FMJ is a copper cup, with lead exposed at the base. Nearly all soft point and hollow point is the opposite, with lead exposed at the nose.
The real killers of desert eagles is unjacketed lead bullets. Each shot will shave of a fragment of lead at the gas port and likely pack it down at the end of the inaccessible dogleg near the piston.

 

[Krinkler1984]

TMJ, soft point, or hollow point. The critical part to avoid is exposed lead at the base of the bullet, a small amount of which will vaporize with each shot and deposit in the gas system. Bad, but can be used with VERY frequent cleaning with the correct solvent. Most pistol FMJ is a copper cup, with lead exposed at the base. Nearly all soft point and hollow point is the opposite, with lead exposed at the nose.
The real killers of desert eagles is unjacketed lead bullets. Each shot will shave of a fragment of lead at the gas port and likely pack it down at the end of the inaccessible dogleg near the piston.

Gunsmith buddy of mine had a customer who exclusively shot lead bullets he cast himself. needless to say his DE was royally impacted with shavings. how would you clear something like that?

 

[HumptiDouji]

It’s especially the Mk XIX 357s with issues. They went with a single size of slide and barrel for all three cartridges, and the 44 and 357 suffered for it. My Mk XIX 44 never ran right, but the ‘89 Mk I that replaced it ran flawlessly, as does the ‘84 MK I 357 I picked up later.

Interesting addition, I didn't know that was a problem they've had. The modularity I think is cool idea, though it seems like they didn't quite think it through based on what you said. Could lightening cuts be made to the .357 and .44 slides to improve reliability?

For autistic reasons professional and wildcat refuse to developed rimless versions of revolver and lever-action rimmed cartridges like the .44 Magnum.

It's for logistical and economical reasons. Introducing a new rimless cartridge means that if you want to ever shoot it for not a high cost, you'll probably want to handload, and if you're already a handloader, you'll have to justify to yourself if it's worth investing in .44 Auto Mag Pistol, when you already load .44 Magnum and you do so for pretty cheap.

With a Desert Eagle, you could handload with just regular .44 Magnum brass, which is commonly available, while for .44 AMP you need to special order brass, or convert .308 Winchester casings on your own. IIRC a lot of .44 AMP commercial ammo from back when it was new was made by cutting down .308 casings, but wasn't always done well, small variations in the case length made reliability wonky, so even if you reloaded those casings they would be off. Of course, if you're a not-shit handloader I imagine that cutting and trimming .308 casings shouldn't be a big problem, which you might do after seeing that the commercial ones are funny in length.

If you go for the Eagle, be sure to only use completely jacketed bullets, otherwise you'll gunk up the gas system within one or two boxes of ammo.

I'm well aware. I've been fascinated with the Desert Eagle, for quite some time. Magnum automatics and revolvers in general, actually.

Gunsmith buddy of mine had a customer who exclusively shot lead bullets he cast himself. needless to say his DE was royally impacted with shavings. how would you clear something like that?

Get it hot enough to melt the lead but without harming anything else? Just a wild guess, I'd wonder what to do in that situation as well.

 

[Panama]

Interesting addition, I didn't know that was a problem they've had. The modularity I think is cool idea, though it seems like they didn't quite think it through based on what you said. Could lightening cuts be made to the .357 and .44 slides to improve reliability?

They added a whole host of new problems by trying for the modularity. The DE slide should really be thought of as a bolt carrier. With Mk Is and VIIs, it was sized properly for the inertia and gas pressures of each cartridge. When they went to the modular XIX, the whole bolt carrier is oversized for 44 mag, and massively so for 357. It would be like converting an AR10 to .223. Lightening cuts would help, but bringing back three different sizes of slides and barrels would be the best. The frame is still interchangeable, and was a selling point with the VII.

Gunsmith buddy of mine had a customer who exclusively shot lead bullets he cast himself. needless to say his DE was royally impacted with shavings. how would you clear something like that?

Solvent, an ultrasonic cleaner, and prayers to the machine god. My ‘89 44 had some lead fouling, and a few cleaning cycles and blasting high pressure air through the gas system managed to clear it. I was lucky it wasn’t completely clogged. You can (sort of) remove the barrel extension from Is, VIIs, and some XIXs to get to the gas system and try to ream it from the chamber end, but he may just be in the market for a new barrel.

 

[Club Sandwich]

For autistic reasons professional and wildcat refuse to developed rimless versions of revolver and lever-action rimmed cartridges like the .44 Magnum.

many automatic cartridges that have very similar ballistic profiles to rimmed cartridges exist. however rimmed cartridges are designed in a specific way for actions that were never meant to be automatic. headspacing on the rim instead of the shoulder, higher chamber pressures, no taper for obturation in a chamber under pressure, no thermal flow profiling or clearance for a short leade (no forcing cone) barrel, very long cartridge to accommodate lower pressure powder (cordite, old school stick smokeless, black powder, et c). as mentioned by others, you are fundamentally better off designing the gun around the cartridge or designing the cartridge for the gun.

Could lightening cuts be made to the .357 and .44 slides to improve reliability?

yes and i've had to make these cuts for some customers that want to add a scope or brake to their Desert Eagle. total mass in the pistol must be balanced for the gas pressure load to have something to work against between your hand and the pistol's moment inertia to avoid short cycling. if this isn't kept in a fairly narrow window, even with good hand posture, the slide will develop enough pressure to cycle the action, but not enough to fully feed and lock the new cartridge because the too-heavy barrel assembly (and scope) will encourage rotation on a top heavy pistol. if the slide is too light, it will move rearward too much under recoil and will likely get a failure to feed or eject as well. the gas operation is very reliable, but it is mass sensitive.

you see this in some other pistols like the LAR Grizzly and AMT Automag as well, and sometimes in pistols that have relatively fixed barrels like the Beretta 92F. adding scopes to these pistols requires fine tuning the mass of the pistol as a whole. about the only place where you can get away with not doing much work is if the scope is mounted to the frame. in that case, the mass is "added" to the shooter's mass and not the pistol's.

Gunsmith buddy of mine had a customer who exclusively shot lead bullets he cast himself. needless to say his DE was royally impacted with shavings. how would you clear something like that?

Solvent, an ultrasonic cleaner, and prayers to the machine god.

what works for me is creating a mercury-lead amalgam (disassemble, degrease, carefully inject mercury "backwards" through the gas port at an angle so it exits at the barrel) at "warm" temperatures to encourage flow and capillary action to do the work. after some time, a lead solvent/detergent in an ultrasonic cleans the rest very well. the unfortunate reality is that this is not finish-friendly and anything but stainless will often need to be refinished.

 

[Panama]

Since we have a resident gunsmith who’s used techniques I’ve never even heard of before, I’ve got a conundrum for you, @Club Sandwich. I recently came into possession of a quite nice old European double fowling piece that I intend to use as a wallhanger, but it turns out one of the barrels is loaded. My local gunsmiths have no experience with antiques, and none of them even want to touch it.
The nipple is clogged and siezed so the only way to deal with it is down the bore.
Any insight or suggestions?

 

[Club Sandwich]

old European double fowling piece that I intend to use as a wallhanger, but it turns out one of the barrels is loaded.
The nipple is clogged and siezed so the only way to deal with it is down the bore.
Any insight or suggestions?

firstly, a loaded gun is a dangerous thing to try to do work on and should be treated with extreme care as a matter of course. this isn't a new idea, but i wanted to mention it off the bat. you mention being only able to work from the muzzle, so i will assume that you are unable to open the action or remove the barrels from the action.

next, identify the type - since you mention a nipple, it sounds like an external hammer gun, if you know the lockwork maker, that can clue you to a safe disassembly procedure to open the action without damaging anything. a Greener for example came with external hammers from the 1830's up until the 1940's, but the auto ejecting models weren't common until after 1900. because of that, if it has the auto ejectors, you must be cautious when removing the barrels from the action as they are activated by relieving lever springs in the water table (flat area immediately below the chambers when the shotgun is assembled) interacting on a pair of pins in the fore-end assembly, which are extremely easy to break because they are hardened steel and somewhat brittle to forcing them.

once you identify the lock work maker you can determine if there are any pins or springs that might interfere with safely removing the barrels. the goal here is to remove the barrels from the action without injuring anything (or anyone). cocking the hammer and using wire to secure it rearward, you can then examine the nipple and see if you can unscrew it. if the threads are totally seized and penetrating oil is unable to assist, you can use a small soldering torch to heat the steel while using oiled foil to heatsink the heat from the rest of the metal safely. after applying heat to the steel, try and unscrew the nipple. nipples are typically brass so this should work to loosen differing metals.

if that still isn't working, your next bet is to bit the bullet and just shear off the nipple entirely, use a broken bolt extractor to remove the remains, and chase the threads or re-thread for a new nipple.

once you're able to free the barrels from the action safely, you can use a wooden dowel to tape out the load. if it's a paper cartridge, then pulling with a pick from the chamber at the base, then carefully removing the wadding and shot, then cleaning out the bore would also work.

if it's a muzzle-loading shotgun and there is no action to open, you have no choice but to force the load out by removing the breach plug (if it has one) or if that isn't possible, use a pointed rod to break up the load in the barrel and extract the remains a little at a time. very tedious and dangerous work since you do not know the condition of the powder charge. deactivating the powder by flushing with hot water can heat up the metal enough to relieve seized loads in black powder guns, so that might work here as well.

a tool like a CO2 canister or compressed air to try to force the nipple to unclog might work, but if it's truly completely clogged, you would need very high pressures to do this.

edit: also since this is a display piece, it should be possible to find an unobtrusive, low visibility point to drill a small hole sufficient to use picks to break up the packed powder charge and free the load, then install an appropriately weathered plug and reassemble the action again. it would of course not be "shootable" in that condition, but it would work fine for a display piece if done with care.

 

[Panama]

firstly, a loaded gun is a dangerous thing to try to do work on and should be treated with extreme care as a matter of course. this isn't a new idea, but i wanted to mention it off the bat. you mention being only able to work from the muzzle, so i will assume that you are unable to open the action or remove the barrels from the action.

next, identify the type - since you mention a nipple, it sounds like an external hammer gun, if you know the lockwork maker, that can clue you to a safe disassembly procedure to open the action without damaging anything. a Greener for example came with external hammers from the 1830's up until the 1940's, but the auto ejecting models weren't common until after 1900. because of that, if it has the auto ejectors, you must be cautious when removing the barrels from the action as they are activated by relieving lever springs in the water table (flat area immediately below the chambers when the shotgun is assembled) interacting on a pair of pins in the fore-end assembly, which are extremely easy to break because they are hardened steel and somewhat brittle to forcing them.

once you identify the lock work maker you can determine if there are any pins or springs that might interfere with safely removing the barrels. the goal here is to remove the barrels from the action without injuring anything (or anyone). cocking the hammer and using wire to secure it rearward, you can then examine the nipple and see if you can unscrew it. if the threads are totally seized and penetrating oil is unable to assist, you can use a small soldering torch to heat the steel while using oiled foil to heatsink the heat from the rest of the metal safely. after applying heat to the steel, try and unscrew the nipple. nipples are typically brass so this should work to loosen differing metals.

if that still isn't working, your next bet is to bit the bullet and just shear off the nipple entirely, use a broken bolt extractor to remove the remains, and chase the threads or re-thread for a new nipple.

once you're able to free the barrels from the action safely, you can use a wooden dowel to tape out the load. if it's a paper cartridge, then pulling with a pick from the chamber at the base, then carefully removing the wadding and shot, then cleaning out the bore would also work.

if it's a muzzle-loading shotgun and there is no action to open, you have no choice but to force the load out by removing the breach plug (if it has one) or if that isn't possible, use a pointed rod to break up the load in the barrel and extract the remains a little at a time. very tedious and dangerous work since you do not know the condition of the powder charge. deactivating the powder by flushing with hot water can heat up the metal enough to relieve seized loads in black powder guns, so that might work here as well.

a tool like a CO2 canister or compressed air to try to force the nipple to unclog might work, but if it's truly completely clogged, you would need very high pressures to do this.

Wow, thanks for the writeup. I guess I was a little vague. It’s a percussion double with a solid breach and steel nipples, completely rusted in place. I kind of figured I would be forced to try to break up the load from the muzzle, but was dreading it. It’s a hundred and fifty year old Damascus pipe bomb with god knows how old of a load in it, and I completely understand why no one wants to attempt to disarm it. I’ll try the water flush and see if it’s enough to clear it out. Hell, I’ll keep doing flushes and soaks until it does if I can avoid poking anything down the bore. I’ve no concern for the condition of the piece. It’s far from being a museum specimen, and unsafe to shoot even if it was functional.

 

[Club Sandwich]

Wow, thanks for the writeup. I guess I was a little vague. It’s a percussion double with a solid breach and steel nipples, completely rusted in place. I kind of figured I would be forced to try to break up the load from the muzzle, but was dreading it. It’s a hundred and fifty year old Damascus pipe bomb with god knows how old of a load in it, and I completely understand why no one wants to attempt to disarm it. I’ll try the water flush and see if it’s enough to clear it out. Hell, I’ll keep doing flushes and soaks until it does if I can avoid poking anything down the bore. I’ve no concern for the condition of the piece. It’s far from being a museum specimen, and unsafe to shoot even if it was functional.

word of advice doing it the dangerous way: use a stiff steel wire with the end wrapped in tape and then a tennis ball on it. this greatly reduces its penetrative qualities and turns something lethal into something bruising or rib-cracking.

never stand or place anything in front of it while working on the piece either.

lastly when using a hot water flush (this is true for black powder in general, actually) try to stick with distilled water or water that is relatively free of contaminates, and the water should be near boiling, or actually boiling and removed from heat for a minute or two. the hot water will heat the metal and help free the action as the metal expands. differing materials (wood, brass, et c) will expand at different rates and it is important to slowly heat the piece with repeated rinses over a period of time. because brass is a common nipple material, once the nipple is sufficiently heated and scalding hot to the touch, you can try to use pliers to free it.

i also outlined, because it's a display piece, that simply finding a spot about an inch forward of the nipple out of sight can be drilled to release and break up caked powder. when drilling, because it's possible that it can set the charge off, you will want to point the barrel in a safe direction to allow firing the charge. a high speed drill bit and hand drill will not be dangerous during this drilling if the initial hole is small, 5/16ths or so is fine. once drilled, use a small needle to inject water and neutralize the powder charge, then drill normally. this is the "old school" way of making a deactivated display piece. the hole is typically brass plugged and hidden by the mounting plate or display piece's furniture.

i strongly suggest removing the wood during this process if at all possible to spare it for restoration later on. (steaming it to raise the grain and using alcohol or acetone to leach oils and dirt, then you can sand and varnish as required).

remember the goal: access and deactivate the powder charge in a safe manner. once the powder charge is deactivated, the gun is functionally inert and you can work a bit more freely. black powder decomposes over time, but it does so unstably and unevenly. it might legitimately safe to just secure the gun to a rest pointed in a safe direction and drop the hammer with string to rule out easy ignition.

 

[Badungus Kabungus]

Well fuck, Hornady 22LR Varmint Express ammo looks decent but the weight is inconsistent. Opened a few packs, the round weight varies from 3.23g(!) to 3.33g, in comparison to CCI Standards which are were all 3.30g. Did not see how it shoots yet but so far not impressed.

Edit: More autism with weighing out bullets. I weighed like 20-30 rounds for each type from assorted lots.

CCI Minimags with the 40gr copper plated round nose - 1.29g to 1.30g.
CCI Blazers - 1.26g to 1.31g.
Federal Value Pack - 1.16g to 1.20g.
Remington Golden Bullets shit-tier ammo - 1.11g to 1.25g, by far the worst spread out of them all.

 

[Krinkler1984]

Get it hot enough to melt the lead but without harming anything else? Just a wild guess, I'd wonder what to do in that situation as well.

Had a chance to ask my buddy today, that's what they ended up doing. Last ditch method would have been to mix up a white vinegar / hydrogen peroxide solution to eat away the lead, but that would also have attacked the finish of the gun as well

 

[Badungus Kabungus]

More 'tism. Took apart the heaviest and lightest Hornady 22LR rounds. Most of the weight difference was due to the bullet, but there was a minor weight difference in the powder as well.

One bullet was 2.51g and another was 2.59g (40 grains as advertised). Powder accounted for a 0.01-0.02g difference as well. Damn Hornady, what's up?

Still, can't judge it until I see how it shoots.

 

[Jesus Goldstein]

Wow, thanks for the writeup. I guess I was a little vague. It’s a percussion double with a solid breach and steel nipples, completely rusted in place. I kind of figured I would be forced to try to break up the load from the muzzle, but was dreading it. It’s a hundred and fifty year old Damascus pipe bomb with god knows how old of a load in it, and I completely understand why no one wants to attempt to disarm it. I’ll try the water flush and see if it’s enough to clear it out. Hell, I’ll keep doing flushes and soaks until it does if I can avoid poking anything down the bore. I’ve no concern for the condition of the piece. It’s far from being a museum specimen, and unsafe to shoot even if it was functional.

I’ve used something like this in the past to clear my muzzleloading shotgun - I’d think it would be all that was needed:
https://www.trackofthewolf.com/categories/partdetail.aspx/587/1/WORM-US

Used it to pull the overshot card, then the shot just fell out. Then I pulled the wad and poured out the powder. Just made sure no cap was on the nipple. However, I don’t know how unstable old powder can get. I may have gotten too cavalier with black powder but in my experience it is pretty stable, requiring a hot spark to ignite.

 

[HumptiDouji]

Well, since we got these posts moved to more appropriate places, I guess I'll just show a picture of the case hardened Desert Eagle pistol so those of you who don't know can see what I mean.

Look at this shit, it looks like it's sculpted out of a dark marble material or something like that. People can meme all they want about the faux gold tigerstripe (which is beyond ugly), but I think this is the most gorgeous that the Desert Eagle can look like. Only improvement would be to swap out the railed barrel for an older style one with just the two scope mount slots, which looked far more subtle and pleasing.