🐮 Lolcow Jeffrey Leibowitz / Not Dead Yet

[Paper Machete]

Is it even possible to domesticate reptiles and lizards? Even most exotic birds are still identical to their wild counterparts, it's just they're socialized from a young age and may not have the diseases or parasites wild caught animals might. Chickens and some other birds used for meat and pigeons are the only domesticated birds I can think off the top of my head. There is a reason why pretty much all domesticated animals are mammals. An important aspect to the domestication process is selecting individuals to breed who are less bothered by human interaction. How do you do that with an animal like a snake? They aren't social animals and do not have a sophisticated way to communicate. The best you get is "is it stressed or not?"

Anyway, there are plenty of snake species that are perfectly safe to keep and docile. There is no real reason to keep "hot snakes" aside from thinking it's cool. And that's a very juvenile reason to keep something so dangerous. I even question why zoos have them. At least, it makes sense why zoos or people who collect venom to make antivenom would have them in their countries of origin. But I think even foreign zoos of little reason to keep them considering it's also really just down to people wanting to look at them for a second because it's "cool". The vast majority of people who visit zoos do so to see something "interesting" they're not actually the type who do so for knowledge reasons. I'm not anti zoo or anything I just think they should focus on native species and there should definitely be a line for when something is too far.

It's never just the person who has them that accepts the risk. They're deciding that risk for anyone they live near, anyone who visits, and as in Jeff's case it means other people are going to have to help save his life. No animal enclosure is ever 100%. And that's when they're designed for the animal they're containing, not just tupperware and plastic storage bins intended for extra blankets and Christmas decorations to be stored in attics.

 

[klarine]

Knowing the temperment of individual any animal species is absolutely a relevant consideration and safety factor.

This is something I've seen certain people on the news say a lot about their "pet" big cats like tigers or lions before shit hits the fan

A child died in one of these cases.

So no, wild animals don't have a safe predictable temperament that will prevent accidents, specially not venomous snakes with peas for brains. A taipan will defend itself when being handled, no shit sherlock, bold of you to assume a gaboon won't.

Nothing is guaranteed, that’s again not even close to the poin

The problem is not only that safety is not guaranteed, this is something one would say to someone getting a golden retriever. The issue here is that shit WILL happen to idiots keeping venomous snakes in their houses (or to the unfortunate people nearby) and it's just a matter of time.

 

[mindlessobserver]

More shade being thrown at Jeff

 

[Culled]

I even question why zoos have them.

It depends on the Zoo of course, but at least where I live some don't have any venomous snakes at all, be it native or otherwise.

Also good point about keepers deciding the risk for everyone else, I recall reading a news article about someone's escaped coral snake in a house with multiple parties just this February. They had to evacuate the entire house, but no one was hurt and they caught the snake somewhere in the apartment.

 

[klarine]

Is it even possible to domesticate reptiles and lizards?

Some lizards are pretty smart (in comparison to most reptiles lol), they like to stay near humans and can make a cute company, but they certainly aren't domesticated and will have behaviors associated with wild animals.

Snakes on the other hand are really fucking stupid, think of an extremely tard animal. They just care about surviving and making offspring. I don't think selective breeding would make them understand that a human provides food and shelter or basic stuff like that. Having a snake is more like having a pet fish that you can hold sometimes for cool pictures I guess.

Birds are mostly really smart and can warm up to caretakers quickly, specially pscittacidaes, even if they aren't domesticated. But as usual the problem with birds as pets is that most people don't know how to care for them and they end up miserable.

 

[LemonParty]

They say 6 million of them were killed in a massive forest fire, but it was more likely 200,000 and mostly from disease.


Not only do they have a warning that’s audible, many times they’re also patient and will give you time to fuck off. I had a close encounter a few months ago back before the summer heat hit in may. Something told me to look down and there it was, a C. atrox flicking its tongue. I wear snake bite PPE on my walks so I’m fine and good, but if I hadn’t then that’d be scary.

I won't post pics at the risk of doxing myself but I come up on rattlers all the time. We're probably in different professions but in mine a good cowboy boot is sufficient enough to stop a babies' strike. The bigger ones are old enough to give fare warning. Even then, like you said, you can step right over them and they likely won't strike.

I've been bit once by a baby while jumping over a fallen tree and the boot leather handled it fine. The big snakes who can obviously bite through the leather have never given me issue.

 

[Carpenter Trout]

It should have been destroyed.

who? the idiot or the snake?

 

[LemonParty]

who? the idiot or the snake?

That snake destroyed the idiot. Unfortunately the snake isn't native and could become an issue for native wildlife so it was saddly essential to destroy it too. Perhaps his exotic animals could have gone to a zoo but that's not the call Fish and Game made. Perhaps the US should stop funding Haitian cat eaters and put more resources into Fish and Game.

 

[grump]

I'm gonna say it, I'm all for retards owning dangerous animals and think we should have a Livestream that's just a house full of retards trying to raise dangerous animals.

Obviously he's an idiot. But I get uncomfortable when outsiders of some hobby trying to ban it because of isolated idiots who ruin it for everyone and because its something they don't do or get so its okay to ban while they'd be pissed if their hobbies were restricted in anyway.

I don't own reptiles but I wouldn't want someone to seize my guns because some other shithead misused theirs.

 

[Another Bozo on the bus]

That snake destroyed the idiot. Unfortunately the snake isn't native and could become an issue for native wildlife so it was saddly essential to destroy it too. Perhaps his exotic animals could have gone to a zoo but that's not the call Fish and Game made. Perhaps the US should stop funding Haitian cat eaters and put more resources into Fish and Game.

While I don’t doubt that’s one reason why the snakes had to be destroyed, the official reason boils down to Leibowitz’s father gaining custody of the snakes, asking local keepers, collections and rescues if they could take them, and them all saying no due to health reasons. Basically, anyone taking on a bunch of random reptiles needs health records so they can properly assess the risk/cost to their finances and own animals. It fucking sucks that the snakes had to be euthanized but it is a huge ask to foist that many animals on an individual or organization and have them take on so much added risk.

 

[keke]

It's never just the person who has them that accepts the risk. They're deciding that risk for anyone they live near, anyone who visits,

This shit is so retarded. Maybe I’m taken off guard by how many people are mad about this overall, not just regarding Jeff. Or getting PTSD from similar phrasing being used as the r/ZeroCovid community. It’s not like they have a horde of these snakes ready to go. It’s a niche hobby, and most people who own them are professionals who educate people NOT to own these animals, that they are not trying to kill people, and raise conservation awareness. There is a tremendous amount of, to be brief, animal abusers and irresponsible jackasses in it so I get the instinct to just say fuck these snakes but like I said some of the phrasing is a little ghey and applies to so many other things.

 

[Culled]

This shit is so retarded. Maybe I’m taken off guard by how many people are mad about this overall, not just regarding Jeff. Or getting PTSD from similar phrasing being used as the r/ZeroCovid community. It’s not like they have a horde of these snakes ready to go. It’s a niche hobby, and most people who own them are professionals who educate people NOT to own these animals, that they are not trying to kill people, and raise conservation awareness. There is a tremendous amount of, to be brief, animal abusers and irresponsible jackasses in it so I get the instinct to just say fuck these snakes but like I said some of the phrasing is a little ghey and applies to so many other things.

I get why the phrasing rubs you the wrong way, I don't think voicing concerns about it equals "fuck these animals" and the stance that no one can have them under any circumstances though.
Maybe I'm way off, but I see the core argument being "If your animal escapes and someone gets killed, it's your fault.", which...it is.

I appreciate them very much and want to see them preserved, but I'm not sure how I feel about any moron being able to get their hands on them because unless you live in the middle of nowhere the keeper has a ton of responsibility that goes beyond just themself and their animals too.
It's a difficult subject to navigate and discuss since laws aren't the same everywhere and there probably are places that already have reasonable regulations in place.
Knee-jerk overreaching by lawmakers that often have no clue and probably don't particularly care about what makes sense and what doesn't, happens as well and it's shitty, but there are also places where you can go and buy some poor mite infested rattlesnake for 30 bucks at a con if you're simply old enough and that's a little nuts.

Ig in the end I'm just glad that I'm not responsible for making laws and regulations that everyone can live with ( not that people like Jeff care about the law in the first place ).




On another note:

"I don't care that he's probably dying or about to die."
Finally someone said it, lol.

 

[Oddjob OTP]

Is it even possible to domesticate reptiles and lizards? Even most exotic birds are still identical to their wild counterparts, it's just they're socialized from a young age and may not have the diseases or parasites wild caught animals might. Chickens and some other birds used for meat and pigeons are the only domesticated birds I can think off the top of my head. There is a reason why pretty much all domesticated animals are mammals. An important aspect to the domestication process is selecting individuals to breed who are less bothered by human interaction. How do you do that with an animal like a snake? They aren't social animals and do not have a sophisticated way to communicate. The best you get is "is it stressed or not?"

I think it is possible with larger species like monitors, tegu, and crocodilians to domesticate them. They are all very smart and capable of identifying people and listening to verbal commands and all have good food responses which make them relatively easy to train.

Problem is they are all much harder to keep and domesticate and extract work/meat/skins out of than a fucking dog which is why no people in history have actually bothered beyond socializing and keeping them like snakes/crocodiles the Near East, Middle East and Mediterranean.

Snakes are dumb as rocks. You could probably breed out some of their defensiveness if you tried though (some people claim to breed for handleability but most species of reptile have been kept and reliably bred for less than 30 years so I'm doubtful there's too much progress)

 

[klarine]

It’s a niche hobby, and most people who own them are professionals who educate people NOT to own these animals,

Why not make it so that you need a loisense to own these, along with microchipping/gps'ing every single venomous snake and requiring a person to have their own antivenom bank in case it goes wrong? How many of these hobbyists actually have antivenom stocked for the animals they own?

Call Me Lamp just admited in video he doesn't have antivenom for the australian snakes he keeps, and yes, he also owns an inland taipan.
If he gets bitten, a zoo or lab worker somewhere will be at risk because he will beg for a rare antivenom in america from every single zoo nearby.

 

[RodgerDodger]

Obviously he's an idiot. But I get uncomfortable when outsiders of some hobby trying to ban it because of isolated idiots who ruin it for everyone and because its something they don't do or get so its okay to ban while they'd be pissed if their hobbies were restricted in anyway.

I don't own reptiles but I wouldn't want someone to seize my guns because some other shithead misused theirs.

But it's already been banned. Do Not Import Deadly Venomous Snakes as Pets is one of those things that goes way back. And is on the books everywhere. Even third world shitholes in South America where everything that walks swims flies or slithers can kill you instantly have "Do not import anything from Australia, ever!" Laws.

 

[AnOminous]

Rackniggers will cry "anthropomorphization" but it's demonstrable that when given space, an animal will use it. Even a highly terrestrial, mostly nocturnal snake will sometimes choose to climb and bask.

I'm just not buying that bullshit. It's not "anthropomorphization" to think that animals generally fare better in as close to their natural environment as they can get, but with some better amenities and dangers removed. That environment is not fucking Tupperware.

 

[klarine]

But it's already been banned. Do Not Import Deadly Venomous Snakes as Pets is one of those things that goes way back. And is on the books everywhere. Even third world shitholes in South America where everything that walks swims flies or slithers can kill you instantly have "Do not import anything from Australia, ever!" Laws.

The USA has some states in which is legal to breed and keep venomous snakes in the name of muh freedom burgerland. As much as I value america's freedom I think jeff will survive without 14 australian elapids in his closet.

 

[AnOminous]

Free reign? No, people are retarded.
Cats get declawed.

That's now illegal in a lot of places and the number of such places is growing. And it should be.

His entire animal collection was killed, he has thousands in medical fees and he has buttfucked his body beyond repair.
What a great optimistic guy, truly he never deserved a single thing bad to happen to him.

Imagine even showing your face in public as someone who is universally reviled as an absolute fucking mongo sped who needs to die.

I think Wikipedia is jumping the gun on this one:

There are definitely going to be long-term medical ramifications from this and I wouldn't be surprised if his survival comes with a drastically shortened expected lifespan. There could also be complications even in the near future, like rhabdomyolysis, where your skeletal muscle just suddenly dissolves and the toxins released kill you. This can happen after myotoxic snakebites seemingly at random, or at least with no predictability to it that we've figured out yet.

And he certainly is going to have some degree of renal failure, which has a way of catching up to you eventually.

 

[Oddjob OTP]

Why not make it so that you need a loisense to own these, along with microchipping/gps'ing every single venomous snake and requiring a person to have their own antivenom bank in case it goes wrong? How many of these hobbyists actually have antivenom stocked for the animals they own?

First, in some states it is like that because it's a state law thing. I think actually the majority of states at this point. But I personally wouldn't trust the government not to fuck it up. Florida fag here, we have a lot of reptile laws on the books and they are not science-based and the government body that writes and enforces them is beyond most law suits and judicial checks and balances and only answers to the governor. They are pretty much just land developers which is why most of their job consists of trying to gaslight people into thinking it's private owners releasing reptiles they consider to be at risk of becoming invasive that's the problem when most of the invasive populations are due to escapes from zoos who still aren't regulated more then normal and still keep fucking up and releasing breeding populations into the everglades or hitchhikers from exotic landscaping.

The guidelines you wrote could be a reasonable set of guidelines and all but it's going to come down to some civic major's gut feeling at the end of the day. Like for example, hognoses and garter snakes are both technically venomous. There exists no specific antivenom for them to the best of my knowledge because you would have to be very, very unlucky to even need to be hospitalized for a bite from them. Do we get to keep them? How venomous is too venomous? Will that be based on science or are rattlesnakes and cobras just assault snakes because they look scary?

 

[AnOminous]

Call Me Lamp just admited in video he doesn't have antivenom for the australian snakes he keeps, and yes, he also owns an inland taipan.
If he gets bitten, a zoo or lab worker somewhere will be at risk because he will beg for a rare antivenom in america from every single zoo nearby.

If you keep these things and get bit, that should be on you. If you can't get insurance for it, tough shit.