🐮 Lolcow Jeffrey Leibowitz / Not Dead Yet

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Why not make it so that you need a loisense to own these, along with microchipping/gps'ing every single venomous snake and requiring a person to have their own antivenom bank in case it goes wrong? How many of these hobbyists actually have antivenom stocked for the animals they own?

Call Me Lamp just admited in video he doesn't have antivenom for the australian snakes he keeps, and yes, he also owns an inland taipan.
If he gets bitten, a zoo or lab worker somewhere will be at risk because he will beg for a rare antivenom in america from every single zoo nearby.
Even worse: what happens if his snakes bite someone else?

Everyone agree that there is no such thing as a responsible "big cat" owner. It is time that everyone agrees that there is also no such thing as a (((responsible))) venomous snake owner.
 
most of the invasive populations are due to escapes from zoos who still aren't regulated more then normal and still keep fucking up and releasing breeding populations into the everglades or hitchhikers from exotic landscaping.
Keep in mind that it doesn't take many snakes escaping for it to become an invasive species. Colombia's entire hippo population came from 4 animals owned by a drug dealer. So it is possible that it was a zoo releasing 2 or 3 of those snakes, or a private owner throwing them away. And I know a lot of private owners do this because I've had to work with a whole bunch of slider turtles that were released in a nearby lake by different people :story:


How poisonous is too poisonous? Will that be based on science or are rattlesnakes and cobras just assault snakes because they look scary?
Any venomous or poisonous animal should be chipped and regulated, regardless of how potent the venom is. Specially if the animal is not a native species, not because of the possibility of becoming invasive but because animals that aren't native don't usually have antivenom readily available in the country and people being allowed to freely buy them can cause an immense shitstorm in the future.
 
Is it even possible to domesticate reptiles and lizards? [...] An important aspect to the domestication process is selecting individuals to breed who are less bothered by human interaction. How do you do that with an animal like a snake? They aren't social animals and do not have a sophisticated way to communicate. The best you get is "is it stressed or not?"
I am tempted to say that bearded dragons are more or less "domesticated" by now.
This is what they're like in the wild:

Very defensive, very hissy, very snippy. Really not tolerant of people at all.

The ones you'll see in the pet trade now are about 35-40 generations removed from that, with every successive generation being selectively bred to be as tame and handling-tolerant as possible. (For comparison, the people running the Russian fox experiment managed to have 70-80% of their stock completely domesticated by the 30th generation.)

The captive-bred bearded dragon is a whole different animal - super sweet, very cuddly, probably the most docile reptile out there, which is a big reason why they're popular as a beginner pet for first-time herp owners. I don't know if they're neurologically capable of "loving" their caretaker in the same way that a dog or a horse can, but they definitely are capable of bonding with them to a certain extent.
 
Any venomous or poisonous animal should be chipped and regulated, regardless of how potent the venom is. Specially if the animal is not a native species, not because of the possibility of becoming invasive but because animals that aren't native don't usually have antivenom readily available in the country and people being allowed to freely buy them can cause an immense shitstorm in the future.

Notice how the venomous reptiles "hobbyists" try to conflate their niche hobby with keeping regular reptiles as pets, completly removing from the equation that they are breeding biological weapons of mass destruction?
 
I remember looking up pictures of cobras because I was curious what one looked like just chilling and not angry. I found this absolute retard on reddit who fucking lets his massive cobra freerange in his fucking garden and his house. Probably handled it barehanded.

Apparently the cobra was a little celebrity in a snake sub and the guy posted frequently. All of a sudden he went radio silent like around 3 years ago.

Tried doxing his location to see if he was dead but there wasn't much in his history to help in this. Spoke good English and was most likely American but that's all I could find. Had multiple venomous snakes, too. Wish there was a community watch thread for people like this, some of these people are legitimate dangers to the people around them.

Edit: found the account and the fucking picture of him letting it loose outside
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LMAO sir you let it loose outside for photos
 
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Bearded dragons are cute. It's really people's bias against more common pets being "boring" that makes them want more exotic ones but the more exotic the less likely it works with human captivity. I much prefer to stick to animals I know actually like interacting with humans.
 
Notice how the venomous reptiles "hobbyists" try to conflate their niche hobby with keeping regular reptiles as pets, completly removing from the equation that they are breeding biological weapons of mass destruction?
Are you implying that Oddjob is a keeper of venomous reptiles? Their point is that regulators are politicians and are usually horribly educated at best on topics that require someone to have a lot of it. If you've got a rear fanged snake that has incredibly mild venom, is it going to be considered just as dangerous as a viper? Are they even going to care about keeping this specifically to medically significant animals at all, or just blanket ban ones that look scary? How can you trust that the backstabbers in government with room temperature IQs aren't going to ignore anything actual experts say?
 
I much prefer to stick to animals I know actually like interacting with humans.
Not only that, but exotic animals are mistreated and abused beyond belief by owners that simply don't understand the animals needs and don't know any better. Even if the animal is a nice pet to have. Happens a lot with birds and turtles/tortoises.


Are they even going to care about keeping this specifically to medically significant animals at all, or just blanket ban ones that look scary? How can you trust that the backstabbers in government with room temperature IQs aren't going to ignore anything actual experts say?
Blanket regulating anything venomous is probably better than allowing anyone to own a black mamba. I don't see any reason for a person to keep venomous snakes as a hobby anyway.
 
Not only that, but exotic animals are mistreated and abused beyond belief by owners that simply don't understand the animals needs and don't know any better. Even if the animal is a nice pet to have. Happens a lot with birds and turtles/tortoises.
Being really underestimate the level of knowledge animal care takes. They also apply how more common pets like dogs and cats and their ability to adapt to humans and meet us half way to animals that do not have the capacity to do that. It's very frustrating. And people like Jeff feed into those attitudes. People like him pretend it's people being scaredy-cats and ignorant that they don't keep the animals he does the way he does but there are good reasons common pets are common and not something like a fucking serval. RIP that poor kitty.
 
People like him pretend it's people being scaredy-cats and ignorant that they don't keep the animals he does the way he does but there are good reasons common pets are common and not something like a fucking serval. RIP that poor kitty
That story made me sad, if he couldnt bother to keep his snakes in proper and clean enclosures, imagine how badly that serval was treated.
 
Blanket regulating anything venomous is probably better than allowing anyone to own a black mamba. I don't see any reason for a person to keep venomous snakes as a hobby anyway.
Blanket bans are how you get boneheaded laws like the MBTA. There'd have to be a minimum threshold of toxicity, because most lizards and every snake (anything in the clade Toxicofera) is either venomous to some degree, or had an ancestor that was. Even bearded dragons have venom glands - granted, it's a very weak cocktail that's only really capable of subduing large insects, but it's still venom.

Better to just maintain a very large blacklist on a species-by-species basis. It's easier to prosecute when the law says in black-and-white, "you cannot own a king cobra as a private citizen, you fucking retard, see chapter 3 section 14 bullet point 48 of the LEIBOWITZ statute" (a/k/a the "Law Embargoing Idiot Breeders, Ophiophiles, and Wiggers from Importing Toxic Zoology").
 
Is it even possible to domesticate reptiles and lizards?

Anything under the umbrella of breeding something to be useful to humans is "domestication." So if you breed a venomous snake to the point where it no longer produces enough venom to seriously hurt or kill you and just lies stupidly unless a mouse is 1" from its face, sure, it's domesticated.
 
Better to just maintain a very large blacklist on a species-by-species basis. It's easier to prosecute when the law says in black-and-white, "you cannot own a king cobra as a private citizen, you fucking retard, see chapter 3 section 14 bullet point 48 of the LEIBOWITZ statute"
I can agree with keeping a specific list, some states do that for dangerous dogs so it wouldn't be anything new. It will be a pretty long list tho.
 
I think medically significant would be a better term to use in such laws. That's the distinction used for spiders that can actually kill healthy people.
 
Blanket regulating anything venomous is probably better than allowing anyone to own a black mamba. I don't see any reason for a person to keep venomous snakes as a hobby anyway.
If these hobbyist are so serious about this shit they can form their own private regulatory and advising organization. Private Zoos have the Zoological Association of America as an example. It sets basic guidelines like how certain animals should be housed, how they should (or should not) interact with the public, veterinary support requirements, feeding, housing and so on. These organizations not only provide a liability shield by setting standards, they also help inform braindead politicians when it comes to passing laws about shit, such as appropriate enclosures for chimps or big cats.

At a minimum it seems to me that this "community" needs to have more standardization. Especially when it comes to "approved" enclosures as well as an emergency plan in the event of a bite. Some gormless retard should not be asking for antivenin on Facebook. If you own an exotic snake you should be required to have the antivenin already, or show that your local hospital has it in stock. Which is usually the case for native species. If you want more exotic shit, procuring your own should be mandatory.
 
The captive-bred bearded dragon is a whole different animal - super sweet, very cuddly, probably the most docile reptile out there, which is a big reason why they're popular as a beginner pet for first-time herp owners. I don't know if they're neurologically capable of "loving" their caretaker in the same way that a dog or a horse can, but they definitely are capable of bonding with them to a certain extent.
I'm not sure if this really applies to the smaller, dumber reptiles, but while it has long been thought that the reptilian brain wasn't capable of the sort of complex behaviors mammals have, the crocodilians in particular turn out to be a lot more intelligent than previously thought, being capable of cooperative hunting and other behaviors indicative of being capable of thinking and planning.

More surprisingly, they have even been witnessed doing things that at least look like altruism.
If you own an exotic snake you should be required to have the antivenin already, or show that your local hospital has it in stock. Which is usually the case for native species. If you want more exotic shit, procuring your own should be mandatory.
You should also be forced to have vast amounts of insurance to cover the strict liability applied to those who keep inherently dangerous animals. This should be in the millions. Underwriters will not underwrite for a mammoth retard like this Leibowitz faggot.
Better to just maintain a very large blacklist on a species-by-species basis. It's easier to prosecute when the law says in black-and-white, "you cannot own a king cobra as a private citizen, you fucking retard, see chapter 3 section 14 bullet point 48 of the LEIBOWITZ statute" (a/k/a the "Law Embargoing Idiot Breeders, Ophiophiles, and Wiggers from Importing Toxic Zoology").
The problem with this is that you risk either having gigantic thousands of pages long laws just on snakes, plus if you forget to put something on there, some moron will go get that exact thing, because being that specific in law with an enormous list inherently implies that anything not prohibited is permitted.

The same risk applies to a list of permitted animals, but in the other direction.

The usual statutory approach is to put things in broad terms, but then you have the administrative hazard of unelected administrative agencies essentially making completely arbitrary and unreviewable decisions. This is somewhat diminished at least on the federal level with SCOTUS's recent abolition of Chevron deference (the general principle applicable until recently that administrative agencies effectively had carte-blanche to interpret the statutes they enforce to an insanely broad degree), but probably still applies to state law.

Maintaining giant blacklists (or whitelists) on a statutory level leads to incredibly unwieldy state codes, and allowing administrative agencies to do so willy-nilly presents equal or even worse menaces.
 
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I'm remembering part of the opening to that old '1000 ways to die' show.. "Death, most people spend their life trying to avoid it, some can't seem to stay out of its way!" These types of morons who keep deadly snakes very much feel like the potential latter.

It's his comments though that put him over the top into "lol" territory here.
 
As far as I'm concerned everything in Aussie land is out to kill you.
This is not actually true, We have a lot of pythons, our largest land predator is a dog and ok in the rivers we have crocs and bullsharks but so does America. America also has plenty of deadly snakes, probably even more than Australia, you also have spiders and huge land animals like moose and deer which are comparable to kangaroos and probably more dangerous with their antlers.
And bears, you guys got bears and wolves and big cats and rabies.

Australia is safe with beautiful wild life, look at all our mammals and Lizards.
 
I think medically significant would be a better term to use in such laws. That's the distinction used for spiders that can actually kill healthy people.
It's not really that easy because a lot of venomous snakes that can kill people aren't considered medically significant because they rarely bite people. Mostly snakes from isolated areas where no one lives.
And collectors/hobbyists love those snakes.


If you own an exotic snake you should be required to have the antivenin already, or show that your local hospital has it in stock. Which is usually the case for native species. If you want more exotic shit, procuring your own should be mandatory.
Regulations aside, this is something that should have happened yesterday, having an inland taipan in a simple neighborhood in north carolina is not only a danger to the idiot that brought it but to everyone around him. These hobbyists rarely, if ever have those australian/african/asian snake antivenin doses available, even the "responsible ones", and this makes me really MATI.
 
Another snakebro adding in his two cents
He's entirely too nice about the matter, but it does have some interesting tidbits like part of Jeff's hospital livestream and Jeff's house being disgusting with rotten meat and catfood everywhere, with such a stench the cops had to leave for fresh air. Also goes over another taipan bite in the US and a lost cobra that wasn't reported for 3 months.

ETA: He also released a compilation of Jeff's hospital livestreams
 
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