Incel and Lonely Men Debate thread - Defend men giving up or tell them otherwise

[Celestial Peace]

Here's a question: how is a woman actually supposed to make you "less lonely"?

emotions that you're supposed to feel when you're "not lonely" in some sort of romantic context. Hugs? Kisses? That's emotional warmth; emotional warmth isn't exclusively transferred through romantic gestures.

You've answered your own question, dude.

For those who aren't neurodivergent lack of sex, cuddling, kissing, etc. does make a person go from moody to volatile depending on how long they haven't done it and how's their libido. Some deal with it, others complain about it and get depressed.

"loneliness" is alleviated by being understood.

That's another kind of loneliness and a broader one. Incels may prioritize that or not but I highly doubt they do. They can't satisfy physical loneliness much less an abstract one.

She said—and I'm not making this up—"I was lonely".

Probably has something to do with women having sex as a method of intimacy whereas men do it for the same reason they're thirsty, hungry, need to sleep, need to take a shit or fart: Because we feel like it. Purely biological need.

 

[California Newt]

You've answered your own question, dude.

For those who aren't neurodivergent lack of sex, cuddling, kissing, etc. does make a person go from moody to volatile depending on how long they haven't done it and how's their libido. Some deal with it, others complain about it and get depressed.

While it's possible that I'm just uniquely adapted to this environment as you suggest, I doubt it. I know how good it feels to be warm. I just don't think that the warmth you're describing is only available through the romantic context that people in our society almost exclusively associate with it. Elevating sexuality above all other connections is one of the most deadly diseases of the contemporary mind.

I think that, phenomenologically, the basic elements of what we call "romantic" emotions are found in many different kinds of relationships (usually related in some sense to the creative process, but that's a discussion for another time). I've confused these emotions for "romantic" ones myself in the past, which is not uncommon among autistic men (and probably many normal ones these days). That or I'm a fruit, but again I doubt it. We're just trained to express those same emotions in different ways according to the appropriate context. Some people, though, are for some reason determined to remain slaves to sexuality.

C.S. Lewis has a great book called "The Four Loves", where (among other things) he distinguishes philia from eros. The former is capital "F" Friendship (or comraderie based on similarity of goal and soul), and the latter is best described as the desire to consume a person. He makes a big deal about the distinction, trying very hard to be clear that philia is not gay and totally distinct from eros. I think he goes too far. I think there's a place for the desire to consume another person outside of bonds between men and women; it just can't be consummated sexually. It's consummated through competition, collaboration, instruction, and in an absolutely physical sense (although all of the prior can contain physical components) things like religious rites where you consume the god or God; in other words, actually physically consuming the living being of a person (as opposed to cannibalism, which is a death-oriented distortion).

Probably has something to do with women having sex as a method of intimacy whereas men do it for the same reason they're thirsty, hungry, need to sleep, need to take a shit or fart: Because we feel like it. Purely biological need.

Sex is a shortcut to intimacy for a lot of people, but I do wonder if women are more reliant on it. Maybe for them it's just an easier habit to get into because of the abundant supply.

 

[gurfan]

incels scum should be killed.

 

[Forsaken Wanderer]

@Celestial Peace

They do. They're pretty much the personification of what an incel thinks a woman is minus the beauty.

Because, somehow, these gals convinced themselves they got game on men they seek so they won't waste their time with an average dude. Thing is the men they're seeking are way above and out of their league. That's why both incels and femcels hate each other.

There's some bullshit reinterpretation on what a femcel supposedly is by feminists but we know they're just seeking engagement. But it just shows how much awareness there is.

But do they really exist then? The term "incel" contains the word involuntary because being one is not meant to be a choice or a lifestyle. I know there are men that call themselves incels even though they have had girlfriends (I don't count paying for sex as a way out of being an incel) but a large number of them really cannot get women to give them even a moment of attention. There is a reason why on an Internet full of hardcore porn men pay thots to say hello to them on stream, they have no other way of interacting with a woman.

Femcels are living their lifestyle by choice because they could at any time give up their pursuit of Chad and find an average guy instead. Ignoring 95% of men because they think they deserve better is what they want to do. If they were truthful they wouldn't try to latch onto the term incel and give the impression that they are lonely because of something out of their control.

As ever though women will deny this is the case. As ever their made up issues are pushed out there by the media while the very real issues men face are covered up.

 

[Celestial Peace]

@Celestial Peace


But do they really exist then? The term "incel" contains the word involuntary because being one is not meant to be a choice or a lifestyle. I know there are men that call themselves incels even though they have had girlfriends (I don't count paying for sex as a way out of being an incel) but a large number of them really cannot get women to give them even a moment of attention. There is a reason why on an Internet full of hardcore porn men pay thots to say hello to them on stream, they have no other way of interacting with a woman.

Femcels are living their lifestyle by choice because they could at any time give up their pursuit of Chad and find an average guy instead. Ignoring 95% of men because they think they deserve better is what they want to do. If they were truthful they wouldn't try to latch onto the term incel and give the impression that they are lonely because of something out of their control.

As ever though women will deny this is the case. As ever their made up issues are pushed out there by the media while the very real issues men face are covered up.
View attachment 5978641

The realization that incels are plagued by a mix of mental issues and being raised with toxic parents and relatives has been long overdue because people still stick that "nerdy, weak and pathetic" label onto them in an attempt to not take them seriously. Even when their poster boy kickstarted it all by killing people.

A standard incel is not a terrorist but unfortunately those who went postal stand out for obvious media reasons.

The irony of it all is that most incels were raised by toxic mothers. That is, women are mostly the root cause of an incel.

I've personally met feminists who would shift blame to men whenever women themselves judge men based on their criteria that basically reinforces the same traditional roles they themselves want to erase. Or worse, when they go making false allegations. Talk about accountability. When confronted for making use of sexist rethoric they play coy and starting blaming patriarchy or some shit.

Misandry is hardly used as an excuse for incels going on a spree. They're nothing but sideshow freaks or potential mass-killers to normies.

All this misogyny finger-pointing is just retarded cope indocrinated feminists always be spewing whenever their political antics starts backfiring.

Femcels are gold-diggers with social issues and feminists (like all things involving women) want to seize it for their own cause painting it as another cry of women victims of misogyny while incels are what they are because men, amirite?

EDIT: Phrasing.

 

[Duke Nukem]

Now you say that but Detroit actually saw a double digit reduction in the number of crimes committed in 2023. All of which was due to policing improvements and community outreach. Turns out if you give a shit, and take active steps to improve a bad situation things get fixed. Shame the incels will never learn that.

Honestly that's the thing though, they don't understand that nothing is 0% or 100% on any given subject and that simply taking a shower or wearing something that isn't a hentai shirt covered in grease stains isn't going to automatically grant them a girlfriend. Their idea of dating comes from coming of age comedies and Judd Apatow movies, not actual real world experience.

@California Newt I never grew up with religion myself, unless deeply held political beliefs count. Of course, I threw that shit in the garbage soon after I grew up and got out of the house, but it took years to dismantle that stuff entirely. I could have easily ended up becoming part of that "community" but seeing certain patterns of their behavior and how hypocritical they are about the topic of "ascension" as they call it makes even a sperg like me not want to touch that shit.

 

[California Newt]

I never grew up with religion myself, unless deeply held political beliefs count. Of course, I threw that shit in the garbage soon after I grew up and got out of the house, but it took years to dismantle that stuff entirely. I could have easily ended up becoming part of that "community" but seeing certain patterns of their behavior and how hypocritical they are about the topic of "ascension" as they call it makes even a sperg like me not want to touch that shit.

I don't really know what you're talking about. I grew up agnostic. I don't know what "ascension" refers to, or which "community" you mean. Do you mean religion, or the political beliefs? I understand that a lot of religious behavior can be annoying, but that's no different from any other worldview in that respect. I don't think you can find any misbehavior or hypocrisy (at least on a basic scold and annoying person level) in a religious community that you couldn't find in any secular group like vegans, environmentalists, political people etc.

 

[Duke Nukem]

I don't really know what you're talking about. I grew up agnostic. I don't know what "ascension" refers to, or which "community" you mean. Do you mean religion, or the political beliefs? I understand that a lot of religious behavior can be annoying, but that's no different from any other worldview in that respect. I don't think you can find any misbehavior or hypocrisy (at least on a basic scold and annoying person level) in a religious community that you couldn't find in any secular group like vegans, environmentalists, political people etc.

I was talking about the incel community, and to them, "ascension" means finally having sex with someone who isn't a hooker you paid. My own family treats politics like it's a religion, as in "God isn't real, the state is" kind of way. It seems weird but it's sadly not as rare as it should be. Of course my parents are the kinds of people who are continually pissed off because they had to go to church every Sunday as kids.

I kinda get it though, I mean, you do five days in school, and two not, why throw one of them out for the sake of imaginary sky people? I'm not necessarily saying I agree with this viewpoint but I understand why someone would take this position. Secular groups can be just as bad if not worse though TBH.

 

[Celestial Peace]

they don't understand that nothing is 0% or 100% on any given subject and that simply taking a shower or wearing something that isn't a hentai shirt covered in grease stains isn't going to automatically grant them a girlfriend.

I've heard people go "Well, duh..." when I would say something like that but I wouldn't be surprised if most people really believe that putting on nice clothes and using deodorant is enough to attract each other. Usually these people tend to act like morons because they focus more on appearance than character.

 

[Duke Nukem]

I've heard people go "Well, duh..." when I would say something like that but I wouldn't be surprised if most people really believe that putting on nice clothes and using deodorant is enough to attract each other. Usually these people tend to act like morons because they focus more on appearance than character.

What??? You mean that becoming a looksmaxxed showering gym rat after years of being a greasy, unshaven fatass isn't going to make women attracted to me automatically???

 

[Celestial Peace]

What??? You mean that becoming a looksmaxxed showering gym rat after years of being a greasy, unshaven fatass isn't going to make women attracted to me automatically???

That's what gymcel dorks fail to understand: They'll become just another brick in the wall with this mentality because bodybuilding oldfags know how to deal with gym whores whereas gymcels set themselves up to embarassing situations. Plus, I'd like to imagine some of them might realize they been bullshitting themselves and putting up a front.

Ironically, the stereotypical Chad does the same and they're the sworn enemy of incels.

This gym rat mania has been around since the early stage of MGTOW when it started as a tip for self-improvement to avoid getting hung up on women shenanigans.

 

[Spud]

still stick that "nerdy, weak and pathetic" label

They don't exactly help themselves by being exactly that online though.

 

[Odd Opossum]

The realization that incels are plagued by a mix of mental issues and being raised with toxic parents and relatives has been long overdue because people still stick that "nerdy, weak and pathetic" label onto them in an attempt to not take them seriously. Even when their poster boy kickstarted it all by killing people.

People have always known that, it still doesn't change that the majority of those dudes are whiny, hateful losers who deserve to be outcasted.

 

[Duke Nukem]

That's what gymcel dorks fail to understand: They'll become just another brick in the wall with this mentality because bodybuilding oldfags know how to deal with gym whores whereas gymcels set themselves up to embarassing situations. Plus, I'd like to imagine some of them might realize they been bullshitting themselves and putting up a front.

Ironically, the stereotypical Chad does the same and they're the sworn enemy of incels.

This gym rat mania has been around since the early stage of MGTOW when it started as a tip for self-improvement to avoid getting hung up on women shenanigans.

I have honestly seen this in action, knew a guy who was big on gym stuff, obsessed with "hot blondes" and much of his personality looked like it was built out of random parts of sports, action, and war movies. Like people could tell he was trying to live like he was in a Sylvester Stallone movie. They also always try to tell you that getting huge muscles and doing grueling workouts with roids is going to get you with women or whatever. Which is funny because I know a guy who's got a smaller and shorter frame than myself who's actually got a wife and new baby where I work. He likes video games more than grueling routines of lifting heavy objects, and ironically he's doing better than most of the people who do these things to "impress women."

 

[Celestial Peace]

People have always known that

Not actually. Incel became more of a meme and a mere slur word for men who don't buy into feminist bullshit regardless of their marital status. Hell, you can have married dudes still repeating the same talking points as the greasy basement-dweller loners which kinda ignores the original meaning of "Involuntary Celibate".

You see, it's not only incels who tend to take memes seriously. People on the internet have been following suit thanks to current generation being terminally online.

I have honestly seen this in action, knew a guy who was big on gym stuff, obsessed with "hot blondes" and much of his personality looked like it was built out of random parts of sports, action, and war movies. Like people could tell he was trying to live like he was in a Sylvester Stallone movie. They also always try to tell you that getting huge muscles and doing grueling workouts with roids is going to get you with women or whatever.

I guess he didn't get some afterall. I can imagine this chump aiming for Van Damme vibes and instead gave Johnny Bravo vibes.

 

[Duke Nukem]

Not actually. Incel became more of a meme and a mere slur word for men who don't buy into feminist bullshit regardless of their marital status. Hell, you can have married dudes still repeating the same talking points as the greasy basement-dweller loners which kinda ignores the original meaning of "Involuntary Celibate".

You see, it's not only incels who tend to take memes seriously. People on the internet have been following suit thanks to current generation being terminally online.

I guess he didn't get some afterall. I can imagine this chump aiming for Van Damme vibes and instead gave Johnny Bravo vibes.

He was like a proto Elliot Rodger actually, except taller and more athletic and eventually got a pickup truck instead of a BMW. I doubt he ever helped anyone move, it was just more of the "real men drive trucks" meme. Granted I'm not saying he should have gone for a Mazda Miata or something, as that's more of a teenage girl's car IMO, but somewhere in between would be reasonable enough.

 

[Forsaken Wanderer]

@Celestial Peace It's not just the lack of a father figure for many incels but there are also no male role models and no place for white men in current "culture".

The people that young men look up to, the few white males that still exist in legacy media not helping matters, are all degenerates and sleezeballs with no sense of truth, honor, or even masculinity. Youtube and Tiktok stars are all about the money and the fame. Who is there that is admirable among all of this filth.

There is also no where for white men to stand in western society. If you come out as gay then you have a path to follow, if you come out as trans then it's even better. What does a straight white man do? Work for decades for a world that gives back nothing but venom, and be ignored until it comes time for another salvo of anti-white messaging. No wonder there is so much bitterness.

 

[Vulpes Mulpes]

No wonder there is so much bitterness.

Indeed.



I read this book some months ago. It's written by swedish psychiatrist Stefan Krakowski, in which he details his dealings with incels at his clinic, and of his "online undercover investigation" in various incel-communities in order to find out more of what makes incels tick. I don't know if there's an english translation of the book, but I found it a worthwhile read.

I believe one of the most important findings of mr. Krakowski is that incels are hardly a homogeneous group of people. As such, it's profoundly stupid to derive their existence from one or two measly factors, which are often times claimed by feminists or other people of equally questionable quality to be factors along the lines of incels supposed "unfuckability" or "sleaziness", or other similarily vague and vapid descriptions.

What's clear is that inceldom is sadly on the rise in the entire world, and while mr. Krakowski expresses hope that the problem can be resolved through dialogue and by men shouldering more womanly social roles (as women claim they want — mr. Krakowski falls into yet another pitfal laid by women, like so many other men before him), I'm far less optimistic, unfortunately. Women will never factor themselves into the equation as being part of the problem, and will thus never shoulder responsibility accordingly. Thus, no harmonious solution between the sexes is likely to be realistic to expect, at least not if we consider dialogue and mutual understanding to be at the core of the solution.

It's a shame, because I can guarantee that the phenomenon of the incel is so profound that it will leak into real life far more than it already has in the not-too-distant future, and as long as vitriolic women and limpwristed men posture with cheeto-crusted fingers about how these men are the bane of the world, and how virtually all of society's ills primarily stem from them, things will not improve. I do believe women at large will come to regret their behavior when/if things hit critical mass (though never admit it, as is par for the course).

At this point, I find people who moan about incels to be far more entertaining than the shenanigans of incels themselves.

 

[Celestial Peace]

incels are hardly a homogeneous group of people. As such, it's profoundly stupid to derive their existence from one or two measly factors

This has always been the case but as I've mentioned before people get hung up on those who give up on society and throw their lives away.

which are often times claimed by feminists or other people of equally questionable quality to be factors along the lines of incels supposed "unfuckability" or "sleaziness", or other similarily vague and vapid descriptions.

Most people do have a notion on how to be attractive based on sitcoms.

Though incels are most of the time deep in a extreme state of mind. If you ever talked to someone that had radical views on whatever it may be they'll often make people who aren't into it uncomfortable.

It is likely that incels voice their thoughts IRL and that might bring more attention than how do they look.

OTOH you might have incels who might neglect basic hygiene but that's because they don't give a fuck anymore.

I'm far less optimistic, unfortunately. Women will never factor themselves into the equation as being part of the problem, and will thus never shoulder responsibility accordingly.

"I'm a whore who can't land a man because of my sluttiness? That's because of misogyny and sexism rampant on society."

"What? These men can't land a woman? That's because of misogyny and sexism rampant on society. It has nothing to do with women having unrealistic expectations and double-standards."

At this point, I find people who moan about incels to be far more entertaining than the shenanigans of incels themselves.

It'll become even more entertaining when inceldom becomes more widespread. Not because we'll have more socially awkward men but because dating dynamics will become so retarded the only option women will have for a potential partner is a desperate coomer.

 

[Ibanez RG 350EX]

dating dynamics will become so retarded the only option women will have for a potential partner is a desperate coomer.

So I'm not a pathetic loser, after all. I'm a savvy buyer waiting for the right deal!