🐱 How conservatives lost the culture war

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As Americans take their politics to the street, comparisons abound with 1968. It is worth recalling a less kinetic showdown in that summer of urban strife and protest.

In a now inconceivable piece of broadcasting, the ABC network set the writers William Buckley and Gore Vidal against each other in a saga of debates. Buckley, the prince of organised conservatism, drawled the case for order and tradition. Vidal, a hedonist if not a progressive, defended the changes of the day. In retrospect, the two shared much, not least the high-born airs that are more overt in New England than England. Still, theirs was an ominous contrast of world views, prefiguring 50 years of culture war.

Whoever was “right”, the evidence that liberalism won continues to amass. Last week, the Supreme Court ruled to extend LGBT rights. It also frustrated President Donald Trump over the treatment of young undocumented migrants. And this is after the right’s Long March through the judiciary, masterminded by the Federalist Society and other campaign groups. Away from the recent cases, which dealt with statutes, the call for the strictest possible adherence to constitutional text has the romantic aura of all lost causes.

The failures do not end there. Take immigration. When conservatism hardened into a movement in the mid-20th century, 5 per cent of the US population was foreign-born. Now the level is near an all-time high at 14 per cent. Or take the status of gay people. Public opinion on same-sex marriage has flipped from two-to-one against to two-to-one in favour since the millennium.

There have been consolations along the way. The military is more revered than during the Vietnam war, when returning troops donned civilian clothes before braving the streets. Out-and-proud atheists are still amazingly scarce in frontline politics. The abortion rate is at its lowest since it became legal.

In the round, though, “movement conservatism” is most notable for the gap between its political success and actual outcomes, at least in the realm of culture. Its organisational flair, its ecosystem of journals and think tanks, even its elected presidents have stood athwart history, yelling “stop!”, as Buckley suggested. If anything, history sped up. The recent statue-felling is just the outward expression of decades of social change.

The best the movement can say is that, lacking a control experiment, we cannot know how much more liberal the US would now be had the New Right never emerged. As an argument, I suppose it will have to do.

None of this is written with a Vidalian smirk. Even we who tend to his view on things must see that conservatism has bleak truths to impart: about the fragility of order, the perverse consequences of well-meaning change, the loss of the individual in the push for group rights. Zealots for change who give no quarter to conservatism’s insights are prone to over-reach. In fact, it is not obvious on which side a strict liberal, in the old sense, now belongs.

The point here is not to crow, then, but to record the ultimate failure of a movement that has appeared so formidable. And also to explain where it went wrong. It is not teleological inevitability, after all, that societies become more liberal over time. Two mistakes stand out.
First, starting with the presidency of Ronald Reagan, social conservatives threw in their lot with free-market economics. Capitalism is miraculously good at lots of things. Fostering stable communities, a sense of national belonging and deference to the sacred are not among them. Not only did Vidal’s agenda win, then, but, by egging on the supply-siders, Buckley was complicit in his victory.
Second, politics turns out to be far downstream of culture. Doctrinal conservatives stormed the three branches of government handily enough, but not Hollywood, the publishing industry, academia and other trades that form our habits of mind without our knowing it. The best the right did was set up parallel bodies, such as Fox News, and even these often address true believers.

Conservatives resent the infusion of universities with critical theory and other relativist lines of thought. If it matters that much, the burden is on them to clamber into the arena and compete. It is a glacial turnaround job, yes, but only because it was decades neglected in favour of more obvious spheres of power. The movement does not want for lawmakers or jurists. It wants for professors.
Watching back now, Vidal was more lethally epigrammatic, Buckley a shade better in deep debate. In the studio, the culture war was closely fought. Outside, ever since, the same cannot be said.
 
Incidentally that's what increasingly larger parts of both extremes want. It's also an admission that the system we have failed, and I don't look forward to what we would replace it. Some of us hate change because the people pushing change are always incompetent assholes.

Could be possible then some guys behind the curtains manipulate these extremes? :thinking:
 
There was the American flaunting its feathers to extol the benefits of capitalism (with things like the Marshall Plan and the Berlin Airlift), which could be understood as practical propaganda. As far as I know, though, you'd be correct in saying that there wasn't any infiltration of the U.S. into the USSR like there was infiltration of the USSR into the U.S.
Denim blue jeans, cassette tapes, rock and roll, Hollywood films featuring a broken America that still had food on the supermarket shelves, and of course the public antics of Americans were more than enough to infiltrate the hearts and minds on their side of the Iron Curtain.

These were not articles of propaganda. These were the truth and the truth was that the USA was better than the USSR. This is why leftists of various stripes, especially the more radical ones, use the fucking buddy system when reading anything that isn't some braindead drivel written by autistic Europeans or brain-fried hippies and hoodrats. One reads it, the other "checks for biases" and they act as if thumbing through The Turner Diaries is akin to taking a stroll on the bottom of the Atlantic. Conservatives haven't lost the culture war because anything built by and run upon such limp-wristed nonsense is destined to fail and they merely have to wait for the pendulum to swing hard back their way. This has been true ever since the dawn of civilization and any violence or strife that comes out of this is necessary anyways.

So just sit back and relax. There's nothing you can do to stop human destiny, so you might as well enjoy the ride.
 
The article may make some good points on culture, but the author has absolutely no idea what's going on int the courts, and how well be seeing an increasingly conservative court for years. even the lgbt opinion was written with adherence to strict constructionist because what these retards dont realize is that constructionism focuses on interpreting statutes when the statute was enacted, not some nebulous date in the past. For example, the civil rights act is interpreted from a 1964 perspective, while the 1st amendment is interpreted from a 1791 perspective.
 
The left is currently tasting institutional power. However, they really don't have cultural supremacy.

They also haven't addressed the issue of economic inequality. They're a paper tiger right now.
 
this fundamentally does not work.

bezmenov pointed out a similar situation in his talk about soviet/kgb subversion against foreign countries and the impossibility of the reverse. what he essentially said was "america can not subvert soviet union because soviet union is closed society. american propaganda is intercepted and never reaches soviet citizens."

regarding the current situation, it's a similar deal. leftists could infiltrate western institutions because those institutions had a culture of openness and intellectual freedom. the same is not the case with leftist controlled institutions. those actively work to keep out dissenters, and regularly purge themselves of wrongthinkers. this happens in academia, media, and increasingly in business too.

tl;dr subversion and infiltration only works against a target that practices freedom and openness. it does not work against a target that is closed off and authoritarian.
slight powerlevel: my parents lived through the Brezhnev stagnation and were able to get some snippets of western information. including Voice of America and Radio Luxembourg. It wasnt easy, but the USSR wasnt hermetically sealed, and no country truly can be. You see the same thing going on right now in Iran or the PRC. no matter how tight a control on the people, something foreign will still get through, and there will always be some form of resentment against the boot on your face. At a certain point when the mechanisms of state control deteriorate sufficiently and the social situations bad enough, then you will see these nations rise up.
 
"Tricky Dick" Nixon, who would have made a great American success story if he wasn't so paranoid. Loses to JFK and makes a political comeback to win again. And his presidency, despite a guaranteed win in 1972, just had to carry out watergate and spy on his enemies.

These days is remembered by no one, even on the right, no one will bring his name up to praise him. I would add Matt Gaetz is a man of culture for quoting Calvin Coolidge.

Also Nixon opened up the country to China, which has lead to our current state of shit affairs.

People forget China, and your War On Cancer
Yeah, they all betrayed you, yeah
And your country too

 
Denim blue jeans, cassette tapes, rock and roll, Hollywood films featuring a broken America that still had food on the supermarket shelves, and of course the public antics of Americans were more than enough to infiltrate the hearts and minds on their side of the Iron Curtain.

That's why I called it "practical propaganda"-- it didn't need to be an active government effort in order to achieve the same thing as propaganda.

Conservatives haven't lost the culture war because anything built by and run upon such limp-wristed nonsense is destined to fail and they merely have to wait for the pendulum to swing hard back their way.

I've grown to hate this argument, because it allows its proponent to be lazy in regards to the upheaval that faces them.

The pendulum doesn't swing on its own-- if you were to do absolutely nothing and let yourself be trampled over, then even if the fervor burns out, you're still left in a completely different starting point with partial amnesia regarding how to re-establish cultural stability. People keep saying Gen Z is shaping up to be turbo conservative or whatever, but the reality is that they're only shaping up to be anti-leftist-- if that. The family structure is still all but destroyed, there's nothing that forces them to regard SRS for what it is (chemical and physical castration that will seriously impair development), too many youth are porn-addled, they're still severely unhappy, they still regard college (and the ensuing thousands in student debt) as a rite of passage, they still think casual sex is perfectly fine and not a debasement of both male and female, liberty is confused with mere freedom, there's hardly any sense of American culture since the counterculture movement of the 60s, we've been unwilling to assimilate immigrants for decades, and our education and entertainment sectors (i.e. our culture generators) are still oozing with leftist influence, which will perpetuate the aforementioned attitudes and more.

Even if we give a hard no and a hip check to the excesses of leftism, without active intervention, we still have the attitudes and are still using the tools that caused things to get this bad (or, at least, left us vulnerable). Conservatives are losing, because 1) they don't understand this is the product of something that's been brewing since the start of the Cold War at least, but 2) they aren't really doing anything. In part, that's because they think theirs is the "normal", ignorant to the possibility that "normal" can be changed, and largely has changed, in part because they don't recognize the means of influencing culture.

Even your most liberal cities are telling CHAZites to fuck off.

And? That just means they think it looks ugly-- that says nothing of the fact that their ideologies are directly responsible for CHAZ.
 
The pendulum doesn't swing on its own-- if you were to do absolutely nothing and let yourself be trampled over, then even if the fervor burns out, you're still left in a completely different starting point with partial amnesia regarding how to re-establish cultural stability.
Then start systematically hunting leftists with lethal force. Or something like that. Swing that pendulum or get out of the way because it's actually moving all by itself. That's how it works. Do you really think that the nuclear family is some kind of fucking social construct? That it's some artificial thing people thought of and decided to enforce with some arbitrary set of social rules that fell out of a fever dream some autistic jackass had about a century ago? No. That structure has existed in civilized societies across the planet, for thousands and thousands of years, and some perverts in a dress popping pills are nothing compared to that biological heritage and imperative.

You're an idiot if you think otherwise.

Anyway. I'm what you could call a believer in the, "fuck you, got mine," philosophy of political change. I'm remote enough not to care what happens either way and were I to violate any law, state or federal, in my daily life the only people that would know about it heard it directly from me. So if you think we're all amorphous lumps of clay and that the pendulum needs your guiding hand then you better get to it one way or another.
 
i have no idea what you are talking about. there was no subversion of USSR society by americans at any level.
america won the cold war because the USSR was committed to a state owned economy run via central planning, which is fundamentally inefficient and unable to compete with a market based economy in the long term. over time this resulted in an extreme gap in terms of economic power and material wealth, with the soviet-aligned east falling further and further behind the america-aligned west. this, along with events like the chernobyl disaster and its handling by the soviet authorities, led them into a situation where trust in the soviet system had eroded to abysmal levels at all levels of society, resulting in the eventual breakdown of the union in the face of growing independence movments in the individual soviet republics themselves. none of this had much to do with any kind of american psyops or propaganda.

Americans didn't need to infiltrate USSR directly. It was enough to fare better in economic terms, to the point where just about everyone living in the eastern block both preferred smuggled western goods over anything made in their own countries, and basically was ready to defect to the west at the first opportunity. If that is not victory by subversion, I don't know what is.
 
Even my dad, who is normie boomer personified, won't watch the BBC any more because it's "just Greta Thunberg and Trannies all day" and if he can notice, then anyone can notice.

Boomers huh, try young impressionable dunning kruger kids instead.
 
Buckley, the prince of organised conservatism, drawled the case for order and tradition. Vidal, a hedonist if not a progressive, defended the changes of the day.

Vidal called Buckley a "crypto-Nazi," and Buckley responded by calling Vidal a "queer" and threatening to punch Vidal in the face. They probably went out for drinks afterwards. The good ol' days.

 
Conservatives are losing because they're arrogant whiny children with no self awareness despite having done nothing to earn it, and nobody likes them for it. The reason they keep getting fired from their jobs is because they absolutely must let the world know about their edgelord opinions, and they're not intelligent enough to do it anonymously. Comes with the extreme egotism I suppose. They'll never be able to infiltrate or subvert anything like they accuse leftists of doing because they view not shouting on the rooftops about how much they hate minorities as a sign of weakness.
You are still a POS under any name you go by, TuscanGardener
 
slight powerlevel: my parents lived through the Brezhnev stagnation and were able to get some snippets of western information. including Voice of America and Radio Luxembourg. It wasnt easy, but the USSR wasnt hermetically sealed, and no country truly can be. You see the same thing going on right now in Iran or the PRC. no matter how tight a control on the people, something foreign will still get through, and there will always be some form of resentment against the boot on your face. At a certain point when the mechanisms of state control deteriorate sufficiently and the social situations bad enough, then you will see these nations rise up.
illegally listening to foreign radio stations at home in the dark is very fucking different to the west literally just welcoming commie ideologues into their public institutions with open arms

Americans didn't need to infiltrate USSR directly. It was enough to fare better in economic terms, to the point where just about everyone living in the eastern block both preferred smuggled western goods over anything made in their own countries, and basically was ready to defect to the west at the first opportunity. If that is not victory by subversion, I don't know what is.
this has nothing to do with subversion you clown, it's a case of simple victory through open economic competition.
 
illegally listening to foreign radio stations at home in the dark is very fucking different to the west literally just welcoming commie ideologues into their public institutions with open arms


this has nothing to do with subversion you clown, it's a case of simple victory through open economic competition.
Never said it wasnt. My point was that even if they tried to seal off the country from the West, they couldn't entirely, and everyone there knew the West was superior, only they didn't realize by how much until they actually left. In any case, Western music and culture were available even in the 1960s, and was so popular the state couldnt crack down on it even if they wanted to.

The West is appealing to people in these countries because of its greater freedom, and will continue to be so unless these assholes get their way. Even the North Koreans realize their country is shittier than the West, and theyre the closest thing to an isolated nation that there is.
 
A small government is one that doesn't rob you with excessive taxes to pay for programs that are against your interest and/or are corrupt money sinks like the military, healthcare or unionized government workers. . A small government can still dictate and legislate morality and cultural norms since its there to ensure society trudges along. The American government is bloated, you have the massive federal government along with its smaller yet equally bloated state, county and city governments, with the IRS and Department of Revenues wielding a ton of power.

one of the big reasons why conservatives lost the culture war is that prosperity brings leisure and we've had 2 or 3 generations live in luxury; the culture changed from bootstraps to everything is a human right in a decade. cellphones used to be luxury items but then the government decided everyone needed access to one so we got the obamaphone project; the same thing happened with laptops.

once you start giving out expensive shit for free you're not going to be able to stop it. how are you going to tell a lazy ass to work?
Lol, your post sent me down another rabbit hole to see if I could connect obamaphones to blackrock. And it started with a company called WindStream and their contracts they were awarded from the federal government. BlackRock owned a ~5% common stock in Windstream. So then blackrock and other associates of Windstream split off and started the Uniti Group WITH Vanguard as another investor (Blackrock owned ~15%) and started charging Windstream, the winner of the Gov contract to build fiber lines a lease agreement. Uniti Group is now one of the leading fiber optic infrastructure and windstream got a chapter 11 and sold off what may have been government bought assets to Uniti Group. They both pay into the Connect America Fund and Universal Service Fund. It is also associated with providing for all the big telecom companies like CenturyLink. Blackrock also owns shares in American Tower, Crown Castle and SBA Communications which are like the only competitors to the Uniti Group now in terms of building fiber and towers..

Blackrock effectively owns a important size (~2%-~15%) in all the US network communication companies for coms & infrastructure building through REITs and Spin-Offs. Shit is mad hard to find. They just make companies out of nothing and call them trusts, but I'm not a finance guy.
 
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Even your most liberal cities are telling CHAZites to fuck off.
The left constantly pushes the envelope with how far they can go. Even when they fail, its nothing more than a failure, there's no push back and they can try again later.
By doing this they're slowly but surely changing dynamics in the US. Just look at the US right now, you say they failed for the stars but they most certainly got the moon.
 
I'm not really a social conservative, I don't view things like the sexual revolution, legal birth control, legal abortion, condoms, pornography, prostitution and gay rights to be bad things. However, the modern left has forgotten that the culture war isn't something that ends as such, and they are presently engaged in the kind of overreach that results in a really nasty backlash.
 
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