🐱 How conservatives lost the culture war

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CatParty




As Americans take their politics to the street, comparisons abound with 1968. It is worth recalling a less kinetic showdown in that summer of urban strife and protest.

In a now inconceivable piece of broadcasting, the ABC network set the writers William Buckley and Gore Vidal against each other in a saga of debates. Buckley, the prince of organised conservatism, drawled the case for order and tradition. Vidal, a hedonist if not a progressive, defended the changes of the day. In retrospect, the two shared much, not least the high-born airs that are more overt in New England than England. Still, theirs was an ominous contrast of world views, prefiguring 50 years of culture war.

Whoever was “right”, the evidence that liberalism won continues to amass. Last week, the Supreme Court ruled to extend LGBT rights. It also frustrated President Donald Trump over the treatment of young undocumented migrants. And this is after the right’s Long March through the judiciary, masterminded by the Federalist Society and other campaign groups. Away from the recent cases, which dealt with statutes, the call for the strictest possible adherence to constitutional text has the romantic aura of all lost causes.

The failures do not end there. Take immigration. When conservatism hardened into a movement in the mid-20th century, 5 per cent of the US population was foreign-born. Now the level is near an all-time high at 14 per cent. Or take the status of gay people. Public opinion on same-sex marriage has flipped from two-to-one against to two-to-one in favour since the millennium.

There have been consolations along the way. The military is more revered than during the Vietnam war, when returning troops donned civilian clothes before braving the streets. Out-and-proud atheists are still amazingly scarce in frontline politics. The abortion rate is at its lowest since it became legal.

In the round, though, “movement conservatism” is most notable for the gap between its political success and actual outcomes, at least in the realm of culture. Its organisational flair, its ecosystem of journals and think tanks, even its elected presidents have stood athwart history, yelling “stop!”, as Buckley suggested. If anything, history sped up. The recent statue-felling is just the outward expression of decades of social change.

The best the movement can say is that, lacking a control experiment, we cannot know how much more liberal the US would now be had the New Right never emerged. As an argument, I suppose it will have to do.

None of this is written with a Vidalian smirk. Even we who tend to his view on things must see that conservatism has bleak truths to impart: about the fragility of order, the perverse consequences of well-meaning change, the loss of the individual in the push for group rights. Zealots for change who give no quarter to conservatism’s insights are prone to over-reach. In fact, it is not obvious on which side a strict liberal, in the old sense, now belongs.

The point here is not to crow, then, but to record the ultimate failure of a movement that has appeared so formidable. And also to explain where it went wrong. It is not teleological inevitability, after all, that societies become more liberal over time. Two mistakes stand out.
First, starting with the presidency of Ronald Reagan, social conservatives threw in their lot with free-market economics. Capitalism is miraculously good at lots of things. Fostering stable communities, a sense of national belonging and deference to the sacred are not among them. Not only did Vidal’s agenda win, then, but, by egging on the supply-siders, Buckley was complicit in his victory.
Second, politics turns out to be far downstream of culture. Doctrinal conservatives stormed the three branches of government handily enough, but not Hollywood, the publishing industry, academia and other trades that form our habits of mind without our knowing it. The best the right did was set up parallel bodies, such as Fox News, and even these often address true believers.

Conservatives resent the infusion of universities with critical theory and other relativist lines of thought. If it matters that much, the burden is on them to clamber into the arena and compete. It is a glacial turnaround job, yes, but only because it was decades neglected in favour of more obvious spheres of power. The movement does not want for lawmakers or jurists. It wants for professors.
Watching back now, Vidal was more lethally epigrammatic, Buckley a shade better in deep debate. In the studio, the culture war was closely fought. Outside, ever since, the same cannot be said.
 
Not much has changed since 1968. Gore Vidal was able to score a win over Bill Buckley by calling him a crypto-fascist. These days, you can score a win over any so-called cuckservative by calling him an Alt-Rightist or wingnat or white supremacist, etc.
 
Not much has changed since 1968. Gore Vidal was able to score a win over Bill Buckley by calling him a crypto-fascist. These days, you can score a win over any so-called cuckservative by calling him an Alt-Rightist or wingnat or white supremacist, etc.
Plus Vidal has a better career in literature
 
You could at least try to convince people why conservatism would actually be better for all people than reeing about muh degeneracy
Yeah, about that...
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nice idea, doesn’t work
 
Why you should spend time away from social media?

Because it can basically fuck with your soul, and then the brain begins to question whats up with the body it's living in.

And the soul is like gone.
 
  • Vote for actual conservative politicians, not neo-con fuckwits

There pretty much is no "actual conservative" politician that aren't neo-cons though at least not for the moment. Republicans/conservatives are pretty much divided by the following : a handful of Rand Paul libertarian-esque minded Republicans, RINO/Neo-cons like Lindsey Graham, or corrupt/do-nothing RINOs like Mitch McConnell.
 
I've been saying this for half a decade.

Yeah, that's what you get for being a complacent lolbertardian. These edgelords are usually the ones celebrating the obscenely rich (who are usually the result of crony capitalism) as an example of why America is the greatest country in the world. They're about to learn the hard way that the amount of free speech you have is strongly correlated with your wealth. Try having a less retarded ideology in the next life.
Truth is not relative, and if a decade with the left in control of the mainstream makes you think it is, then you are either a retard or a coward. The right will not win by assuming the same position as the left, it will just become the left.

There is a very old saying - 'What has been will be again, what has been done will be done again, there is nothing new under the sun". A lot of people are scared and confused at the moment, but they seem misguided - everyone seems to think we have never been in a position like this before, and so you see all this talk of brave new worlds and utopian thinking. The funny thing is though, that that's exactly how we know this has happened before. Brave New World, Utopia, 1984, Fahrenheit 451. Every single one of these books is about the excesses of leftism and how utterly fucked we would be if the woke got their way.

Of course, we shouldn't need fictional examples, because the history of the 20th century is littered with real life examples. Russia, China, Germany, Vietnam, Germany, Cambodia, Korea, and all of South America, and that's just for starters. The right's real problem is that it assumed the flaws in hyper leftism were plainly apparent to all, when really it only seemed that way because their parents worked preposterously hard to drill that into their heads. Only one generation was required to hit the reset switch, and now we're right back in the muck.

It will take some time - and probably quite a few lives - but we will get back to normal eventually. Cthulhu always swims left, and Mammon always swims right, but Tiamat roils in the centre, and the only thing that can stop chaos is entropy.
 
Conservatives are losing because they're arrogant whiny children with no self awareness despite having done nothing to earn it, and nobody likes them for it. The reason they keep getting fired from their jobs is because they absolutely must let the world know about their edgelord opinions, and they're not intelligent enough to do it anonymously. Comes with the extreme egotism I suppose. They'll never be able to infiltrate or subvert anything like they accuse leftists of doing because they view not shouting on the rooftops about how much they hate minorities as a sign of weakness.
Lol, you are an idiot. If you seriously think that conservatives are just uneducated rednecks then you're just like every other leftist. Also, those liberal stereotypes are not even true. Look at William Shockley, James Watson, Kevin MacDonald, American Renaissance and the Pioneer Fund.
 
You could at least try to convince people why conservatism would actually be better for all people than reeing about muh degeneracy
the thing is that 'conservatism' really doesn't have any actual core principles or vision, because conservatism in principle is about what people nowadays call "centrism" - they'll try and protect the status quo for its own sake, but without really having any serious convictions about that status quo, or any deeper reason for why they want to preserve it beyond the fact that it's the status quo.

in broad terms, on the political spectrum there are three major camps:

first, there's the left (progressive/revolutionary)
second, there's the center (conservative)
third, there's the right (reactionary/authoritarian)

the left and the right each have their own visions and ideals they want to enforce. the center does not, its main goal is merely to keep some sort of 'balance' and prevent left or right from taking over because that would rock the boat too much for the centrists' liking.

but in the modern era, at least in the west, the right has essentially been eliminated and excluded completely from the political process. so with the reactionary/authoritarian camp out of the picture, all that's left is the left constantly trying to move things towards their vision, and the center trying to bicker about it and slow things down. but since they do not fundamentally oppose the left, and because they do not have their own vision to put up against the left's, this arrangement simply results in a gradual move towards leftism in all aspects of politics and society, and the only thing that's up for debate is how fast it happens.
 
There pretty much is no "actual conservative" politician that aren't neo-cons though at least not for the moment. Republicans/conservatives are pretty much divided by the following : a handful of Rand Paul libertarian-esque minded Republicans, RINO/Neo-cons like Lindsey Graham, or corrupt/do-nothing RINOs like Mitch McConnell.

So... oust the weakest of them for fresh blood in the same way AOC ousted a ranking Democrat house member because they didn't even bother to campaign?

Easier said than done-- after all, conservative youth outreach orgs like TPUSA and YAF are only good for breeding liberal communism haters because actual conservatism isn't capable of being as trendy. That, and it looks like the likely-to-be-second-youngest-member-of-the-House-ever is a "libtard owned" tier conservative that knows to toe the party line.
 
the thing is that 'conservatism' really doesn't have any actual core principles or vision, because conservatism in principle is about what people nowadays call "centrism" - they'll try and protect the status quo for its own sake, but without really having any serious convictions about that status quo, or any deeper reason for why they want to preserve it beyond the fact that it's the status quo.

in broad terms, on the political spectrum there are three major camps:

first, there's the left (progressive/revolutionary)
second, there's the center (conservative)
third, there's the right (reactionary/authoritarian)

the left and the right each have their own visions and ideals they want to enforce. the center does not, its main goal is merely to keep some sort of 'balance' and prevent left or right from taking over because that would rock the boat too much for the centrists' liking.

but in the modern era, at least in the west, the right has essentially been eliminated and excluded completely from the political process. so with the reactionary/authoritarian camp out of the picture, all that's left is the left constantly trying to move things towards their vision, and the center trying to bicker about it and slow things down. but since they do not fundamentally oppose the left, and because they do not have their own vision to put up against the left's, this arrangement simply results in a gradual move towards leftism in all aspects of politics and society, and the only thing that's up for debate is how fast it happens.

So you can only have principals if you're a Nazi larper or a Commie larper? That's retarded. People can come up with their own ideas without sperging out and falling into far right or far left politics. Centrists can have convictions that just arn't "lets pick out which edgy ideology we want". You can see people who don't really care about politics otherwise put Molon Labe stickers on the back of the car and mean it much more than an Antifa or /pol/tard who spends all day sperging about left/right politics on the internet. If anything people with more realistic ideologies are more likely to have more solid core principals. The Internet Nazi saying how we should gas all jews runs away to his mother's basement the first time a black dude looks at him funny. The Abolish All Cops Antifa type have demonstrated they'll call the cops the instant they need them, and will plug their nose to vote establishment Biden because their guy lost. Where is all the conviction you're talking about? Who are these fabulous demonstrators who keep hard to their core principals?
 
Lol, you are an idiot. If you seriously think that conservatives are just uneducated rednecks then you're just like every other leftist. Also, those liberal stereotypes are not even true. Look at William Shockley, James Watson, Kevin MacDonald, American Renaissance and the Pioneer Fund.

He didn't say anything about rednecks.
 
So you can only have principals if you're a Nazi larper or a Commie larper? That's retarded. People can come up with their own ideas without sperging out and falling into far right or far left politics. Centrists can have convictions that just arn't "lets pick out which edgy ideology we want". You can see people who don't really care about politics otherwise put Molon Labe stickers on the back of the car and mean it much more than an Antifa or /pol/tard who spends all day sperging about left/right politics on the internet. If anything people with more realistic ideologies are more likely to have more solid core principals. The Internet Nazi saying how we should gas all jews runs away to his mother's basement the first time a black dude looks at him funny. The Abolish All Cops Antifa type have demonstrated they'll call the cops the instant they need them, and will plug their nose to vote establishment Biden because their guy lost. Where is all the conviction you're talking about? Who are these fabulous demonstrators who keep hard to their core principals?
there are a lot more positions on the left than commie larping, and a lot more positions on the right than nazi larping

the key point about my post is this situation:

if the left is in power, they will change things towards the left. if they then lose power to the right, the right will change things back to the right.
if, however, there is no right, the left will still change things towards the left. but if they then lose power to the center, the center will not bother changing things back to the right, they will simply accept the previous change towards the left as the new status quo to uphold.
 
OP Article said:
There have been consolations along the way. ... The abortion rate is at its lowest since it became legal.
Hold on, what? Not getting an abortion is a consolation? Also, " Hollywood, the publishing industry, academia and other trades" are as successful as they are because of Captialism.

Interesting premise, but I think it's not quite accurate. For one, the culture war isn't lost. Two, Republicans haven't really been conservative for a long time. Republican politicians come from the same elite circle as Democrat ones. Republicans pander to conservative Christians the same way Democrats pander to blacks. Three, the left has morphed into illiberalism in the last decade plus. This kind of puts liberalism into the conservative's court, making the right working to conserve the liberal ideals of America. That's all I got right now, I'm tired, both physically and of this shit.
 
there are a lot more positions on the left than commie larping, and a lot more positions on the right than nazi larping

the key point about my post is this situation:

if the left is in power, they will change things towards the left. if they then lose power to the right, the right will change things back to the right.
if, however, there is no right, the left will still change things towards the left. but if they then lose power to the center, the center will not bother changing things back to the right, they will simply accept the previous change towards the left as the new status quo to uphold.

Like what? What does the right offer that both isn't offered by American conservatism and isn't Nazi Larping?

In either case your premise still insists that nobody who isn't a far left/far right has no conviction or principals (without demonstrating who actually has principals on the far right or far left.) If someone has conviction and a centrist ideology, why wouldn't they pull things closer to the center in the same way someone would pull things further left or further right?

You could even use Trump as an example of someone pulling things to the center. Removing some of the Obama policies without really replacing them with any "reactionary" policies. Going right, but just a little bit.
 
Like what? What does the right offer that both isn't offered by American conservatism and isn't Nazi Larping?
for starters? strict border controls, reversal of mass migration, isolationism.

none of it is offered by american conservatism - they use it as talking points for elections to bait right wing voters, but they never ever follow through, because they do not actually believe in these positions themselves.
 
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