🐱 How conservatives lost the culture war

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As Americans take their politics to the street, comparisons abound with 1968. It is worth recalling a less kinetic showdown in that summer of urban strife and protest.

In a now inconceivable piece of broadcasting, the ABC network set the writers William Buckley and Gore Vidal against each other in a saga of debates. Buckley, the prince of organised conservatism, drawled the case for order and tradition. Vidal, a hedonist if not a progressive, defended the changes of the day. In retrospect, the two shared much, not least the high-born airs that are more overt in New England than England. Still, theirs was an ominous contrast of world views, prefiguring 50 years of culture war.

Whoever was “right”, the evidence that liberalism won continues to amass. Last week, the Supreme Court ruled to extend LGBT rights. It also frustrated President Donald Trump over the treatment of young undocumented migrants. And this is after the right’s Long March through the judiciary, masterminded by the Federalist Society and other campaign groups. Away from the recent cases, which dealt with statutes, the call for the strictest possible adherence to constitutional text has the romantic aura of all lost causes.

The failures do not end there. Take immigration. When conservatism hardened into a movement in the mid-20th century, 5 per cent of the US population was foreign-born. Now the level is near an all-time high at 14 per cent. Or take the status of gay people. Public opinion on same-sex marriage has flipped from two-to-one against to two-to-one in favour since the millennium.

There have been consolations along the way. The military is more revered than during the Vietnam war, when returning troops donned civilian clothes before braving the streets. Out-and-proud atheists are still amazingly scarce in frontline politics. The abortion rate is at its lowest since it became legal.

In the round, though, “movement conservatism” is most notable for the gap between its political success and actual outcomes, at least in the realm of culture. Its organisational flair, its ecosystem of journals and think tanks, even its elected presidents have stood athwart history, yelling “stop!”, as Buckley suggested. If anything, history sped up. The recent statue-felling is just the outward expression of decades of social change.

The best the movement can say is that, lacking a control experiment, we cannot know how much more liberal the US would now be had the New Right never emerged. As an argument, I suppose it will have to do.

None of this is written with a Vidalian smirk. Even we who tend to his view on things must see that conservatism has bleak truths to impart: about the fragility of order, the perverse consequences of well-meaning change, the loss of the individual in the push for group rights. Zealots for change who give no quarter to conservatism’s insights are prone to over-reach. In fact, it is not obvious on which side a strict liberal, in the old sense, now belongs.

The point here is not to crow, then, but to record the ultimate failure of a movement that has appeared so formidable. And also to explain where it went wrong. It is not teleological inevitability, after all, that societies become more liberal over time. Two mistakes stand out.
First, starting with the presidency of Ronald Reagan, social conservatives threw in their lot with free-market economics. Capitalism is miraculously good at lots of things. Fostering stable communities, a sense of national belonging and deference to the sacred are not among them. Not only did Vidal’s agenda win, then, but, by egging on the supply-siders, Buckley was complicit in his victory.
Second, politics turns out to be far downstream of culture. Doctrinal conservatives stormed the three branches of government handily enough, but not Hollywood, the publishing industry, academia and other trades that form our habits of mind without our knowing it. The best the right did was set up parallel bodies, such as Fox News, and even these often address true believers.

Conservatives resent the infusion of universities with critical theory and other relativist lines of thought. If it matters that much, the burden is on them to clamber into the arena and compete. It is a glacial turnaround job, yes, but only because it was decades neglected in favour of more obvious spheres of power. The movement does not want for lawmakers or jurists. It wants for professors.
Watching back now, Vidal was more lethally epigrammatic, Buckley a shade better in deep debate. In the studio, the culture war was closely fought. Outside, ever since, the same cannot be said.
 
Ask yourself: what is "the center"?

By the definition Dumb Dude provided? Not far right or far left.

I can see what you're going for, but my whole point is that the center isn't defined by the far left or far right. They have their own beliefs and convictions. Shifting the window on what makes the center the center doesn't suddenly mean everyone who was in the center before throws away their ideology to fit into the new center anymore than a nation shifting left would mean that all the Nazis throw away their far right ideology and shift left to fit the new window.
 
Honestly, it's probably best to let the Civil War happen. It seems like only massive disruption of the way of life is the only thing to activate normal people to fight back. I don't see Covid hysteria and BLM riots going away any time before November. Embrace the chaos.
 
Honestly, it's probably best to let the Civil War happen. It seems like only massive disruption of the way of life is the only thing to activate normal people to fight back. I don't see Covid hysteria and BLM riots going away any time before November. Embrace the chaos.

Incidentally that's what increasingly larger parts of both extremes want. It's also an admission that the system we have failed, and I don't look forward to what we would replace it. Some of us hate change because the people pushing change are always incompetent assholes.
 
Silly author, the game of hole digging will always be lost by both the liberals and conservatives no matter whose hole is deeper and wider.
 
As an Orthodox, being Gay itself is not sinful, God test some people harder than others. I don't even mind gays having a civil union between them. It is hookup culture that sucks the value out of a relationship by making being in one a vain thing that I am against. If two gay men dearly love each other and stay committed to each other, then I would be slightly uncomfortable but ultimately accepting of it. You Westerners have shown that is not what people shouting "Gay Rights" want, what they what is to fuck whoever they please, whenever, and they don't care if it's a man, a women, or a child.
My bad, I foolishly assumed you were American when I quoted your post. The issue I have with American conservatives beyond simply disagreeing with them is that they claim to be for "small government" but then want the government to crack down on anything they deem to be "degeneracy" like gay sex or smoking weed. European conservatism, by my observation, doesn't have that inherent contradiction and I'm sorry for involving you in a conversation that is separate from your belief system.
 
Shifting the window on what makes the center the center doesn't suddenly mean everyone who was in the center before throws away their ideology to fit into the new center
but that is exactly what has been happening for over half a century now.
for example, the "center" fifty years ago was staunchly in the "gays are sinners and the idea of gay marriage is absolutely preposterous" camp. fast forward to current year, and the "center" is waving rainbow flags and cheering on the pride parades. and this is just one lone example, you see the exact same thing happening on countless other issues as well.
 
this fundamentally does not work.

bezmenov pointed out a similar situation in his talk about soviet/kgb subversion against foreign countries and the impossibility of the reverse. what he essentially said was "america can not subvert soviet union because soviet union is closed society. american propaganda is intercepted and never reaches soviet citizens."

regarding the current situation, it's a similar deal. leftists could infiltrate western institutions because those institutions had a culture of openness and intellectual freedom. the same is not the case with leftist controlled institutions. those actively work to keep out dissenters, and regularly purge themselves of wrongthinkers. this happens in academia, media, and increasingly in business too.

tl;dr subversion and infiltration only works against a target that practices freedom and openness. it does not work against a target that is closed off and authoritarian.

Yet the subversion is exactly how America ultimately won the Cold War. I wouldn't put too much weight on Bezhmenovs opinions.
 
Yet the subversion is exactly how America ultimately won the Cold War. I wouldn't put too much weight on Bezhmenovs opinions.
i have no idea what you are talking about. there was no subversion of USSR society by americans at any level.
america won the cold war because the USSR was committed to a state owned economy run via central planning, which is fundamentally inefficient and unable to compete with a market based economy in the long term. over time this resulted in an extreme gap in terms of economic power and material wealth, with the soviet-aligned east falling further and further behind the america-aligned west. this, along with events like the chernobyl disaster and its handling by the soviet authorities, led them into a situation where trust in the soviet system had eroded to abysmal levels at all levels of society, resulting in the eventual breakdown of the union in the face of growing independence movments in the individual soviet republics themselves. none of this had much to do with any kind of american psyops or propaganda.
 
i have no idea what you are talking about. there was no subversion of USSR society by americans at any level.
america won the cold war because the USSR was committed to a state owned economy run via central planning, which is fundamentally inefficient and unable to compete with a market based economy in the long term. over time this resulted in an extreme gap in terms of economic power and material wealth, with the soviet-aligned east falling further and further behind the america-aligned west. this, along with events like the chernobyl disaster and its handling by the soviet authorities, led them into a situation where trust in the soviet system had eroded to abysmal levels at all levels of society, resulting in the eventual breakdown of the union in the face of growing independence movments in the individual soviet republics themselves. none of this had much to do with any kind of american psyops or propaganda.

There was the American flaunting its feathers to extol the benefits of capitalism (with things like the Marshall Plan and the Berlin Airlift), which could be understood as practical propaganda. As far as I know, though, you'd be correct in saying that there wasn't any infiltration of the U.S. into the USSR like there was infiltration of the USSR into the U.S.
 
You described both sides again...
The left has been going after power in all forms, not just political. If you get a job at a big company or enter a university, there are many diversity and acceptance classes you have to take where you're outright told you have white privilege, you can't view the world with your own eyes and you need the diversity officer to give you clarity. Hollywood and the music industry only let in people with the right opinions to be broadcasted across the country. The left has all kinds of power that the right has no interest in pursuing.
Some people would argue that the left getting into these positions and using them for their own agenda shows that they should be in power. The people making these claims would be avid supporters of Putin and Jinping
 
Hollywood and the music industry only let in people with the right opinions to be broadcasted across the country. The left has all kinds of power that the right has no interest in pursuing.
part of this is because 'the right' (conservatives, really) are very far up their own ass about how perfect and ideal america is. in their idealism, they believe that only democratically controlled institutions based on the US constitution should have any power over society. and in their naivety, they believe that since the US constitution rules supreme, this must also hold true, hence the only way to power is through democratic constitutional government institutions, as it should be.

the reality is very different though, with organisations such as the press and universities and corporations and NGOs exercising large amounts of soft (and increasingly not-so-soft) power over society. but constitutional conservatives are incapable of admitting this, since it would create some very ugly questions about how such powers are to be dealt with or regulated, so their only reaction is to bury their heads in the sand and pretend nothing is wrong and none of this matters.
 
part of this is because 'the right' (conservatives, really) are very far up their own ass about how perfect and ideal america is. in their idealism, they believe that only democratically controlled institutions based on the US constitution should have any power over society. and in their naivety, they believe that since the US constitution rules supreme, this must also hold true, hence the only way to power is through democratic constitutional government institutions, as it should be.
the reality is very different though, with organisations such as the press and universities and corporations and NGOs exercising large amounts of soft (and increasingly not-so-soft) power over society. but constitutional conservatives are incapable of admitting this, since it would create some very ugly questions about how such powers are to be dealt with or regulated, so their only reaction is to bury their heads in the sand and pretend nothing is wrong and none of this matters.
The left always tries to consolidate power through whatever means the can as long as it gives them the slightest control over public thought and discourse. From dictating who can appear on TV and in movie theaters, to becoming mods on forums and discord channels, all this power adds up in the long run. If you can convince two people to think like you, your ideology will spread like wildfire down the road.
A lot of people look at American republicans and see absurd amounts of inaction and allowing the left to have their way and dominate discourse. One has to wonder how much the GOP has been infiltrated as well.
 
The left always tries to consolidate power through whatever means the can as long as it gives them the slightest control over public thought and discourse. From dictating who can appear on TV and in movie theaters, to becoming mods on forums and discord channels, all this power adds up in the long run. If you can convince two people to think like you, your ideology will spread like wildfire down the road.
A lot of people look at American republicans and see absurd amounts of inaction and allowing the left to have their way and dominate discourse. One has to wonder how much the GOP has been infiltrated as well.
If you think there is a right or a left, you are missing all the action bro. Shit became like this because we let ideologues teach our kids, then through a pipeline for even more outspoken ideologues to teach them. What did you expect from the 20 year old reddit mod that doesn't get the irony of her Che Geuvara shirt?
 
People talk about how the nu-left is holding so much power over culture and the media and how that means freedom is doomed, but since this all started in about 2012 the left have lost:

- The 2014 Scottish Independence referendum
- The 2015 UK General Election
- The 2016 Brexit Referendum
- The 2016 US Presidential Election
- The 2017 UK General Election
- The 2019 UK General Election

And they look set to lose the 2020 US general election as well. The simple fact is that the strategy of cultural hegemony isn't working. People can see that they're being preached to, they can just leave the spaces where wrongthink is punished and return at the ballot box.

Even my dad, who is normie boomer personified, won't watch the BBC any more because it's "just Greta Thunberg and Trannies all day" and if he can notice, then anyone can notice.
 
The issue I have with American conservatives beyond simply disagreeing with them is that they claim to be for "small government" but then want the government to crack down on anything they deem to be "degeneracy" like gay sex or smoking weed.

A small government is one that doesn't rob you with excessive taxes to pay for programs that are against your interest and/or are corrupt money sinks like the military, healthcare or unionized government workers. . A small government can still dictate and legislate morality and cultural norms since its there to ensure society trudges along. The American government is bloated, you have the massive federal government along with its smaller yet equally bloated state, county and city governments, with the IRS and Department of Revenues wielding a ton of power.

one of the big reasons why conservatives lost the culture war is that prosperity brings leisure and we've had 2 or 3 generations live in luxury; the culture changed from bootstraps to everything is a human right in a decade. cellphones used to be luxury items but then the government decided everyone needed access to one so we got the obamaphone project; the same thing happened with laptops.

once you start giving out expensive shit for free you're not going to be able to stop it. how are you going to tell a lazy ass to work?
 
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