Why Some People Think 2+2=5 - ...and why they're right.

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Why Some People Think 2+2=5
...and why they're right.


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By Caroline Delbert

  • Former mathematician Kareem Carr says it's important to know what your math is abstracting for you.
  • People are always ready to argue about math on Twitter.
  • Carr applies his math knowledge to study human genetic markers of cancer at Harvard.
Critical armchair mathematicians are having a moment after a thread about the created nature of numbers spread on Twitter.

Kareem Carr, a biostatistics Ph.D. student at Harvard University, says that sharing his ideas about numbers and abstraction to a large audience on Twitter helps him find others who think differently and are excited about connecting theory to reality.

And while some bad-faith critics have flooded his notifications with unkind assumptions, he’s still happy to put his ideas out there.

In his original thread, Carr points out some simple, but provocative truths about the world. “Our numbers, our quantitative measures, are abstractions of real underlying things in the universe and it's important to keep track of this when we use numbers to model the real world,” one tweet reads.

Carr grounds it in the real ways statistical models are being used to harm, for example, marginalized groups across many parameters: “Whenever you create a numerical construct like IQ or an aggression score or a sentiment score, it's important to remember that properties of this score might not mirror the real things being measured.”


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“There's a need for this sort of thinking, because we're basically turning everything into data,” Carr tells Popular Mechanics. “Because we're turning more and more domains into data, it's becoming more and more important. If we're going to be a world that's just in apps, we need to be sure these things are working how we think they work.”

Carr hasn’t said anything really controversial here, unless just saying mathematically nuanced things is inherently controversial on Twitter. The idea that the counting numbers—whole values only, excluding fractions and decimals—are somehow “naturally occurring” is a common fallacy among people who aren’t trained in math or, say, human development.

Babies acquire numbers one at a time and top out at a handful unless their families and teachers introduce larger and continuously countable numbers to them. Some non-human animals demonstrate an ability to “count” up to four or five and are considered exceptional even for this.

There’s also a language assumption at play, what novelist China Mieville has called an “unpersuasive notion of language as a clear pane of glass.” Everything we say and write is mediated through, well, a medium. The same way recorded music necessarily lops off the most extreme highs and lows by nature of technology, the terms we use are approximations that can never be totally true to what we think or feel, what we see, and how the world appears.

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How music is recorded and compressed is a model. Language is a model, mathematics is a model, and troubled metrics like IQ are models, too. It benefits no one—or, perhaps, only the people in power—to pretend they’re universal truths instead of engaging with the consequences of each model.

Carr says he’s always been interested in the interaction between the “pure” mathematics and where those ideas are actually applied—in a sense, the colorful pane of glass we install in order to view math in our lives. “Here's this thing off to the side and it's called math. And over here you have real life, scientific method, and concrete things that are happening in the physical world,” he explains.

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While studying pure math, he grew frustrated by the combination of abstraction and fallible human conclusions—no one’s fault, he says, just a mismatch in interests. So he began working in and studying biostatistics, analyzing genetic sequencing data collected from patients and looking for markers of cancer.

That’s what he’s still doing now, and his exciting thesis, which combines his interests into a very clever answer to a statistical question, will be published next year.
 
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What that Carr woman says is inconsistent:

"Statements like "2+2 = 4" are abstractions"
"So when somebody tells me "2+2=5", I WILL ALWAYS ask them for more details rather than just dismissing them as an idiot because maybe they're talking about chickens and turns out that's how chickens work."

When someone tell you "2+2=whatever", you'll assume they are speaking in abstractions, not chickens. If a person uses the bare symbol "2" to refer to "two chickens", she is not using the right form of discourse and therefore has no part in the discourse community called Mathematics, although she might be part of another discourse community, that of Aviculture, perhaps.

This is of relevance to basic mathematical education. Mathematical symbols only connect to real life if they bear units, and kids should be taught about units and what they represents. For example, a grade-schooler will be expected to solve a problem like this "if you have a 8-feet long plywood broad, and you have to saw it into 2-feet long pieces, how many pieces can you get?" The teacher should insist on such an answer:

8 (feet) ÷ 2 (feet) = 4 (pieces)

And not just:
8÷2=4.
 
This is Time Cube tier logic.
At least Time Cube guy, you could believe was onto some sort of cosmic truth, that he couldn't quite gather the vocabulary to explain. This dude? He's just pissed that he couldn't get stats to objectively back up his worldview.
 
There is an enormous differences between 2 and 2.5. I mean, other signs and communications lenguages we use are subject to subtle differences betweem what it is saod and what we might picture. My conceptual dog might be large and brave, yours might be a playful and small, some kid with a traumatic experience might think dogs as killer beasts. But math is the ultimate abstraction. 2 is 2 regardless of your cultural background, where you are in the world, or your personal experiences.
 
I completely despise the language this article uses, but I'll give the dude who prompted this the benefit of the doubt here. I think when he tweeted that out, he just intended it as a neat thought experiment, and not a literal refutation of math.
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not just a thought experiment
 
The more i think about this the more mad i get. Its not clever or interesting, its just dumb dumb dumb. But instead of being ignored its being amplified by popular mechanics (they had a blm style ad on the site. Fucking kill me now) and they keep tooting his degree as if everyone is suppose to just shut up and accept it.

Its everything wrong with clown world. The willful ignorance, the amplification and pointless credentials.
 
Remember when the jewish lib whiteys said black pipo were so stupid street slang had to be renamed "ebonics" because dumb people are dumb? You can learn to jive but not speak... *sighs*
Okay... okay. I got this. All welfare payments are now zero. All paychecks to journos and school faggots are now zero. Why? 2 + 2 = 0.
 
Journo said:
The idea that the counting numbers—whole values only, excluding fractions and decimals—are somehow “naturally occurring” is a common fallacy among people who aren’t trained in math or, say, human development.
This is not a fallacy; this is Mathematical Platonism. You can deny Mathematical Platonism (and it has always been fashionable to do so because philosophers love to argue), but no rival accounts has been proved satisfactory -- somehow denial of the existence of abstract mathematical objects always lead you to conterintuitive consequences. For example, people who insist that mathematics is nothing but manipulation of meaningless symbols based on conventionally-agreed rules (a view called Mathematical Nominalism) have difficulties explaining how math tracks the amount of money you have in your bank account.

Journo said:
Babies acquire numbers one at a time and top out at a handful unless their families and teachers introduce larger and continuously countable numbers to them. Some non-human animals demonstrate an ability to “count” up to four or five and are considered exceptional even for this.
Does this journo imply that anything beyond the grasp of babies and animals is somehow non-existent? No babies is born to do journalism. No animal is known to do journalism. Hereby I declare journalism does not exist.
 
I've read the OP twice and I still do not understand what kind of point (if any) this braindead dipshit is trying to make. If you put a rooster and a hen together then at that precise moment in time, there were 2 of them. If you later came back and they had a kid, this does not make 1 + 1 magically equal 3, it means you are cheating and are pretending there isn't a third 1 that was added during the time period you were away. Same goes for the factory example - if you have 2 machines and half of one, you don't pretend the half doesn't exist and say 2, you say 2.5. If you DO discount the half, then being (presumably) a human being of an IQ above room temperature, you understand you don't get to magically bring the total up to 5 without actually adding it to the equation. This is the kind of "gotcha" logic you'd expect from an 8 year old who discards the idea five minutes after thinking it through, except these are grown-ass adults who apparently don't even have the mental acumen of an 8 year old to reason their ideas to their logical conclusion.

How did this moron even get to the level of a Ph.D. in bio-statistics with this kind of reasoning? Have standards really dropped this low?
 
Math, the last bastion of rational, quantitative thought in the face of the Woke Mob now comes under direct assault by thunk-brains who unironically believe 2+2=5...

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lol, I guess. Though you've always had a few soyentists out there larping as scientists. The real problem is that people take them seriously now due to the woke shit.

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Btw, of course, it spawned from everyone's favorite, the (((Frankfurt School))) http://archive.is/HOPPu
 
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This is not a fallacy; this is Mathematical Platonism. You can deny Mathematical Platonism (and it has always been fashionable to do so because philosophers love to argue), but no rival accounts has been proved satisfactory -- somehow denial of the existence of abstract mathematical objects always lead you to conterintuitive consequences.
I lean much more toward nominalism, because the idea of abstract objects that can't interact with the world and yet are fundamental to it seems like a "counterintuitive consequence" if ever there was one.
The unreasonable effectiveness of mathematics in the natural sciences I admit I will have to leave as a mystery.
 
Jesus Christ, I thought this was only limited to lower-tier universities/colleges and high-tier ones still did things properly. I mean, dude supposedly graduated from Harvard, I always thought that was basically MIT level.
I graduated from a smaller college (not community, just a much smaller state school). I would argue it was more rigorous/in-depth than some of the more recognizable colleges in the state.
Smaller classes, only ever had to submit shit through a TA once, and the professors recognized you and knew what you were about. There was also less political bullshit, despite being in the 2010's, and we basically just learned raw science.
The only political shit I really remember was our Botany professor absolutely going on these anti-GMO tirades, which were then balanced out by the Genetics professor talking about why GMO technology is mankinds greatest invention.

Then I've met tards who graduated the big-name state school who couldn't even figure out how to run a search for peer-reviewed literature, despite their school having access to like 5x the paywalled shit that mine did.
 
I'm reminded of a line from a favorite book.
GK Chesterton said:
Through all this ordeal his root horror had been isolation, and there are no words to express the abyss between isolation and having one ally. It may be conceded to the mathematicians that four is twice two. But two is not twice one; two is two thousand times one. That is why, in spite of a hundred disadvantages, the world will always return to monogamy.

You know if you're going to dick with human communication at least be poetic about it.
 
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