Why Some People Think 2+2=5 - ...and why they're right.

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popular mechanics two plus two five moment.jpg

Why Some People Think 2+2=5
...and why they're right.


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By Caroline Delbert

  • Former mathematician Kareem Carr says it's important to know what your math is abstracting for you.
  • People are always ready to argue about math on Twitter.
  • Carr applies his math knowledge to study human genetic markers of cancer at Harvard.
Critical armchair mathematicians are having a moment after a thread about the created nature of numbers spread on Twitter.

Kareem Carr, a biostatistics Ph.D. student at Harvard University, says that sharing his ideas about numbers and abstraction to a large audience on Twitter helps him find others who think differently and are excited about connecting theory to reality.

And while some bad-faith critics have flooded his notifications with unkind assumptions, he’s still happy to put his ideas out there.

In his original thread, Carr points out some simple, but provocative truths about the world. “Our numbers, our quantitative measures, are abstractions of real underlying things in the universe and it's important to keep track of this when we use numbers to model the real world,” one tweet reads.

Carr grounds it in the real ways statistical models are being used to harm, for example, marginalized groups across many parameters: “Whenever you create a numerical construct like IQ or an aggression score or a sentiment score, it's important to remember that properties of this score might not mirror the real things being measured.”


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“There's a need for this sort of thinking, because we're basically turning everything into data,” Carr tells Popular Mechanics. “Because we're turning more and more domains into data, it's becoming more and more important. If we're going to be a world that's just in apps, we need to be sure these things are working how we think they work.”

Carr hasn’t said anything really controversial here, unless just saying mathematically nuanced things is inherently controversial on Twitter. The idea that the counting numbers—whole values only, excluding fractions and decimals—are somehow “naturally occurring” is a common fallacy among people who aren’t trained in math or, say, human development.

Babies acquire numbers one at a time and top out at a handful unless their families and teachers introduce larger and continuously countable numbers to them. Some non-human animals demonstrate an ability to “count” up to four or five and are considered exceptional even for this.

There’s also a language assumption at play, what novelist China Mieville has called an “unpersuasive notion of language as a clear pane of glass.” Everything we say and write is mediated through, well, a medium. The same way recorded music necessarily lops off the most extreme highs and lows by nature of technology, the terms we use are approximations that can never be totally true to what we think or feel, what we see, and how the world appears.

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How music is recorded and compressed is a model. Language is a model, mathematics is a model, and troubled metrics like IQ are models, too. It benefits no one—or, perhaps, only the people in power—to pretend they’re universal truths instead of engaging with the consequences of each model.

Carr says he’s always been interested in the interaction between the “pure” mathematics and where those ideas are actually applied—in a sense, the colorful pane of glass we install in order to view math in our lives. “Here's this thing off to the side and it's called math. And over here you have real life, scientific method, and concrete things that are happening in the physical world,” he explains.

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While studying pure math, he grew frustrated by the combination of abstraction and fallible human conclusions—no one’s fault, he says, just a mismatch in interests. So he began working in and studying biostatistics, analyzing genetic sequencing data collected from patients and looking for markers of cancer.

That’s what he’s still doing now, and his exciting thesis, which combines his interests into a very clever answer to a statistical question, will be published next year.
 
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We really need to ship these people off to a black site and do a variation of the torture method the Cardassians used on Picard in that one TNG episode. Like in the episode we would shine 4 lights lights at them and ask them how many they see. However the difference is that saying there are 4 lights will lead to them getting set free. Saying there are five is what will get them tortured
 
I get what the dude's trying to say, but it's math and I'm sorry but 2+2 will always equal 4. Always. If that changes then we've entered a new reality, and pigs can fly.

edit: like it's a cute little thought experiment, I guess. It has literally zero practical use, though.
 
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Arithmetic is an abstraction over the cardinality of sets. 2 + 2 = 5 means, literally, that the union of a set of 2 elements with a disjoint set of 2 elements has 5 elements.
 
Arithmetic is an abstraction over the cardinality of sets. 2 + 2 = 5 means, literally, that the union of a set of 2 elements with a disjoint set of 2 elements has 5 elements.
That depends entirely on the model of the Peano axioms you choose - if you use the Von Neumann ordinals then the union operator isn't how you get to 4 from 2 and 2.
 
...have difficulties explaining how math tracks the amount of money you have in your bank account.

Or, you know, simulate reality in supercomputers and the little boxes next to our TV and under our desks. It's not like math is some untestable theoretical field that isn't the language through which theoretical science is translated into the real world.
 
Well if a six foot bearded man+dress+make up=woman than anything's up for grabs.
 
Why can't they go move to Canada or Europe instead of ruining every country?
 
If wonder if they would disagree with anything math related? Like X-X=0? Because then I'll say "Give me all the money in your bank account, it won't cost you a penny!"
 
She's inferring that organic animals with fertilized eggs count as chickens. No. They are eggs/ encased bird fetuses. Not grown adults chickens of a doubled set added to another doubled set.

I hate these people trying to change permanent set mathematical laws to look like the new Isaac Newtons of our time.

Even if the eggs had hatched, they are baby chicks, a whole different group other than adult chickens.
 
Hmm, before reading this I figured this fucker was at best some sort of statistics asshole.

He is actually a bio-statistics asshole and not a political statistics asshole, but recalling how badly 2016's poll matched reality I figure this motherfucker is just too stupid to properly know how to count.

PHDs often times have less to do with the actual ability to think and process information versus the ability to convince others of your personal hobbyhorse/topic/subject.

That said, there are over 7 billion people on the planet, the idiots readily pushing this are a vanishing small subset of individuals and they have long overstayed their welcome. While it is optimistic to think that they can't cause more damage before they're put to pasture - it should be remembered that they will be put to pasture if only because of the cannibalistic nature of their sick little circus.

Yes, this being promoted is horrifying, but - the comments dragging these assholes are proof that the world still exists outside of the liberal bubbles these idiots will hopefully suffocate in.

Rainbow ratings please.
 
This is a modern gay version of:

"How many fingers am I holding up Winston?"

I wish 1984, Idiocracy and Demolition Man would go back to being fiction, please...
 
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