Why Some People Think 2+2=5 - ...and why they're right.

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Why Some People Think 2+2=5
...and why they're right.


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By Caroline Delbert

  • Former mathematician Kareem Carr says it's important to know what your math is abstracting for you.
  • People are always ready to argue about math on Twitter.
  • Carr applies his math knowledge to study human genetic markers of cancer at Harvard.
Critical armchair mathematicians are having a moment after a thread about the created nature of numbers spread on Twitter.

Kareem Carr, a biostatistics Ph.D. student at Harvard University, says that sharing his ideas about numbers and abstraction to a large audience on Twitter helps him find others who think differently and are excited about connecting theory to reality.

And while some bad-faith critics have flooded his notifications with unkind assumptions, he’s still happy to put his ideas out there.

In his original thread, Carr points out some simple, but provocative truths about the world. “Our numbers, our quantitative measures, are abstractions of real underlying things in the universe and it's important to keep track of this when we use numbers to model the real world,” one tweet reads.

Carr grounds it in the real ways statistical models are being used to harm, for example, marginalized groups across many parameters: “Whenever you create a numerical construct like IQ or an aggression score or a sentiment score, it's important to remember that properties of this score might not mirror the real things being measured.”


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“There's a need for this sort of thinking, because we're basically turning everything into data,” Carr tells Popular Mechanics. “Because we're turning more and more domains into data, it's becoming more and more important. If we're going to be a world that's just in apps, we need to be sure these things are working how we think they work.”

Carr hasn’t said anything really controversial here, unless just saying mathematically nuanced things is inherently controversial on Twitter. The idea that the counting numbers—whole values only, excluding fractions and decimals—are somehow “naturally occurring” is a common fallacy among people who aren’t trained in math or, say, human development.

Babies acquire numbers one at a time and top out at a handful unless their families and teachers introduce larger and continuously countable numbers to them. Some non-human animals demonstrate an ability to “count” up to four or five and are considered exceptional even for this.

There’s also a language assumption at play, what novelist China Mieville has called an “unpersuasive notion of language as a clear pane of glass.” Everything we say and write is mediated through, well, a medium. The same way recorded music necessarily lops off the most extreme highs and lows by nature of technology, the terms we use are approximations that can never be totally true to what we think or feel, what we see, and how the world appears.

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How music is recorded and compressed is a model. Language is a model, mathematics is a model, and troubled metrics like IQ are models, too. It benefits no one—or, perhaps, only the people in power—to pretend they’re universal truths instead of engaging with the consequences of each model.

Carr says he’s always been interested in the interaction between the “pure” mathematics and where those ideas are actually applied—in a sense, the colorful pane of glass we install in order to view math in our lives. “Here's this thing off to the side and it's called math. And over here you have real life, scientific method, and concrete things that are happening in the physical world,” he explains.

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While studying pure math, he grew frustrated by the combination of abstraction and fallible human conclusions—no one’s fault, he says, just a mismatch in interests. So he began working in and studying biostatistics, analyzing genetic sequencing data collected from patients and looking for markers of cancer.

That’s what he’s still doing now, and his exciting thesis, which combines his interests into a very clever answer to a statistical question, will be published next year.
 
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They don't want to mention him since he recently published a book on how academics has failed this hard.

He has an autistic catalog of post modernist stuff at newdiscourses.com if anyone is interested in the particulars. I found the article untangling marxism and post modernism illuminating.

He and Helen Pluckrose read all of the source material closely and understand its progression - at the least, it tallies up with the underlying Critical Theory and postmodernist materials I've read. The book comes out late this month and it'll be good for anyone who desires to understand in detail how the theories underpinning modern wokeness have metastisised, as opposed to just being able to make broad derisory references to 'postmodern neo-Marxists' (which aren't exactly wrong, but it's a bit more complex than that).

Anyway, this whole thing is an attempt to take away the ability of people to use numbers and quanitative analysis to argue agaisnt woke narratives. The poster in question is a crank who posts inocherent invective on a lot of accounts that regularly talk about IQ and polygenic scores and the like. But in his wormy little brain he must understand the numbers are too powerful to argue with directly on their own terms. It's all rather absurd. Yes, numbers are an abstraction, but they are one that's less malleable (or at least can only be manipulated in relatively vulgar and obvious ways) and correspond more directly to reality than narrative descriptions of oppression and 'lived experiences'. And of course those arguing for this would agree in other cases - like when they argue how 'lived experiences' of weather are not as important as looking at data and models for climate change.
 
Bill says 2+2=4 and Tyrone says 2+2=5 now if we subtract Bills privilege we can see Tyrones answer carries more weight. As Tyrone had to face oppression to give his answer. Remember kids we live in a world where noting is true and everything is true. Who can say what numbers really are. If I have 6 skittles and George has two Arizona iced teas how may do we have together? Who knows it can't be quantified. Nothing is real and everything is true. Ignorance is strength, war is peace, freedom is slavery.
 
This is like Terrence Howard-levels of retardation. Remember Terrence Howard and his whole "Terryology" schtick?

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These fucktards don't realize that a multiple represents groupings. X represents the groups, Y represents the contents. 1 bag of two apples (I.E, 1x2=2) vs 5 bags of 2 apples (I.E. 5x2=10) Did anyone not teach these people how multiples and division work in real life? Is that why they are so stupid?
 
And all of this culminated in someone pointing out that, if Trump said "2 + 2 = 5", they would all be pummeling him for being a ret@rd. Some of the woke responded and said, completely sincerely and with no irony, that, yes!, of course, this is about context. So, if an unperson says "2 + 2 = 4", then 2 + 2 = 5. If an unperson says "2 + 2 = 5", then 2 + 2 = 4.

It's so transparent that it's starting to get boring.

"BLACKWHITE. Like so many Newspeak words, this word has two mutually contradictory meanings. Applied to an opponent, it means the habit of impudently claiming that black is white, in contradiction of the plain facts. Applied to a Party member, it means a loyal willingness to say that black is white when Party discipline demands this. But it means also the ability to BELIEVE that black is white, and more, to KNOW that black is white, and to forget that one has ever believed the contrary. This demands a continuous alteration of the past, made possible by the system of thought which really embraces all the rest, and which is known in Newspeak as DOUBLETHINK."

Seriously, they have to be taking the piss now. They just have to rename "cancelling" to "unpersoning" and they're pretty much big brother.
 
So I want to make sure I understand: the erroneous statement 2 + 2 = 5 is used to determine if you're retarded enough to believe that a male who slices off his wang and claims to be female is a true and accurate statement?

I never thought I'd say this but if Hitler suddenly popped up and asked me to join him in riding the world of degenerates and commies I wouldn't hesitate to say yes.

Seeing people claiming to believe obvious bullshit to fall in line with their peers is making me realize how Hitler, or any other authoritarian, rising to power was even possible. Lately I feel like this guy:
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He and Helen Pluckrose read all of the source material closely and understand its progression - at the least, it tallies up with the underlying Critical Theory and postmodernist materials I've read.
Its all the americans fault... Critical Theory had been the laughing stock of the academic world till you idiots started to bring it back in the 80s...
 
Its all the americans fault... Critical Theory had been the laughing stock of the academic world till you idiots started to bring it back in the 80s...

The Frankfurt School weren't American, however. (Although it is where they found their home after fleeing Germany due to two very obvious features most of its members shared that were not popular. Their institution was Columbia University.) And a lot of the biggest postmodernists - yes, I know, postmodernism is not Critical Theory, although they share an obsession with power and radical scepticism - were French.
 
I'm reasonably sure the example they use of two factories at the end is much more correctly expressed as 2.5 + 2.5 = 5.
 
Oh hey I actually know the answer to this one, its an obvious one for most but there's a common problem with most knowledge today, many places teach that lying to yourself makes something true.

This is obviously not the case. People will endlessly try to go against facts just because they don't like the answer the fact gives. For example. I don't like the fact that humidity is common where I live, I can lie to myself and believe I'm comfortable and there's no humidity, but this doesn't change the fact that humidity is the worst.
 
It still bothers me that someone wrote out the explanation that "If two factories contain two and one half assembly lines and then merged they would have five. Thus 2+2=5!"

Our great ancestors invented decimal points and fractions for a reason. This is just insanity.
 
I completely despise the language this article uses, but I'll give the dude who prompted this the benefit of the doubt here. I think when he tweeted that out, he just intended it as a neat thought experiment, and not a literal refutation of math.
 
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