Vampire the Masquerade Bloodlines: 2 - I want to believe, but...

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Ventrue said:
for such a bad idea
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HSL's dogshit project was no better though, just going into the other extreme. Nobody wants to play a thin blood, and it's impossible to make a cRPG with a protagonist that is a 400-year-old vampire, yet still require the player to be everyone's errand boy.

I do not understand what was so hard about replicating the first game, or what the tabletop recommends you to play as (cca. 13th gen vampire).

But we all know why the woke cucks at HSL went with the thin blood nonsense.

Also, while many are making up excuses for HSL, let's not forget that they were the ones that mismanaged the project so hard Paradox had no other recourse but to scarp it and start from scratch. From what I remember hearing, they were years deep in development and barely had anything to show for it, likely because they spent more time on collective struggle sessions than actually making the fucking game.

Honest Coyote said:
An ancient Tzimisce with moderate manipulation would probably acclimate right into a woke nonbinary polycule
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Yeah, now that's proper World of Darkness "through a glass darkly".
 
regalterry said:
But we all know why the woke cucks at HSL went with the thin blood nonsense.

Also, while many are making up excuses for HSL, let's not forget that they were the ones that mismanaged the project so hard Paradox had no other recourse but to scarp it and start from scratch. From what I remember hearing, they were years deep in development and barely had anything to show for it, likely because they spent more time on collective struggle sessions than actually making the fucking game.
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Correct; this was the first project that they had complete control over, and they completely pissed away their time since they did not have oversight or anyone paying attention to what they are doing.

I will however offer a defense for the Thinblood take; that may have been a mandate at the time or a request by White Wolf directly since remember, 5e overhauled them to be bullshit and they likely wanted to show off how you had the powers to have all the powers. While also inventing UV grenades you can sort of tank on the spot due to thinblood daywalker bullshit. It may not have been Hardsuit Labs who cooked it up, and tbh as much as I fucking hate Thinbloods in Vamp 5, I like it more than Chinese Room's Phyre.

That shit is lame.
 
Generally I agree thin bloods are lame, however I would be ok with it if they used it as a jumping off point for making diablerie a legitimate moral issue to tackle. Give a few options via tremere sorcery or some shit to gain a few generations but then have a choice to either struggle bus it to stay in good standing with the cam or diablerize and either constantly have to hide it or just be a rogue agent. There is unlikely to be anything as interesting as diablerie in this shit show though (with the exception of the Fabien shit where a diablerie victim is somehow such a cuck that they actively help the person who ate them alive)
 
regalterry said:
HSL's dogshit project was no better though, just going into the other extreme. Nobody wants to play a thin blood, and it's impossible to make a cRPG with a protagonist that is a 400-year-old vampire, yet still require the player to be everyone's errand boy.

I do not understand what was so hard about replicating the first game, or what the tabletop recommends you to play as (cca. 13th gen vampire).

But we all know why the woke cucks at HSL went with the thin blood nonsense.

Also, while many are making up excuses for HSL, let's not forget that they were the ones that mismanaged the project so hard Paradox had no other recourse but to scarp it and start from scratch. From what I remember hearing, they were years deep in development and barely had anything to show for it, likely because they spent more time on collective struggle sessions than actually making the fucking game.
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Since Brian Mitsoda was the main writer I haven't heard anything about how much was his idea or how much input came from Paradox. It wouldn't surprise me if the Thinblood idea came from Paradox since Vampire The Masquerade 5th Edition had changes to the Thinbloods. Chris Avellone was behind the pitch meeting with Paradox for Bloodlines 2 and maybe the Thinbloods was a selling point to get the game made with the hope that Bloodlines 2 would be used to increase V5 sells. The meeting took place in February 2016 and Paradox bought White Wolf from CCP Games in October 2015. At the time Paradox was eager to get something going with their new acquisition.

The reason why Paradox doesn't want to make a game like Bloodlines 1 is they are afraid of causing any controversy and offending somebody which they end up doing anyways. When you got an executive saying that Bloodlines 1 was not a good game and it was only acceptable for its time and they have no plans of making another one after Bloodlines 2 is released, it just shows how disconnected, disrespectful, uninterested and lost Paradox is with their own IP. Its called World of Darkness, it contains really dark subjects. This IP is not suitable for those who are sensitive to these subjects and yet it won't discourage Paradox from trying to sanitize everything.

Chris Avellone said that everybody that worked at HSL when he was there for 2 and half years were gone, he didn't know if they quit or if they were fired. Which would also be a contributing factor to the delays and quality of the gameplay from the trailer that HSL released at the time.
 
Ventrue said:
The reason why Paradox doesn't want to make a game like Bloodlines 1 is they are afraid of causing any controversy and offending somebody which they end up doing anyways.
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Maybe I'm in the wrong or misremebering, but from what I recall, Paradox have no wish to initiate any future cRPG projects in the future because HSL fucked up so badly and so completely.

Then again, I do believe this is a good thing in the long run. We already have enough hacks shitting out cRPG as it is, no need to add the Swedish cuck factory to the pile.
 
regalterry said:
Maybe I'm in the wrong or misremebering, but from what I recall, Paradox have no wish to initiate any future cRPG projects in the future because HSL fucked up so badly and so completely.

Then again, I do believe this is a good thing in the long run. We already have enough hacks shitting out cRPG as it is, no need to add the Swedish cuck factory to the pile.
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Paradox paid $1.2 million for White Wolf and $2 million dollars for 33% stake in Hardsuit Labs, plus the capital they spent on developing Bloodlines 2. They expect to break even when this game is released. :lossmanjack:
 
regalterry said:
Maybe I'm in the wrong or misremebering, but from what I recall, Paradox have no wish to initiate any future cRPG projects in the future because HSL fucked up so badly and so completely.

Then again, I do believe this is a good thing in the long run. We already have enough hacks shitting out cRPG as it is, no need to add the Swedish cuck factory to the pile.
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Nah, that was only part of it.

White Wolf's decision to have vampires be behind Chechnya was a big factor as well, since it generated so much controversy that lawsuits were threatened by Kadyrov if I recall correctly. It was a complete shitshow PR wise that spooked Paradox' heads so badly they gutted them from the company and it's why you have Renegade Games copying Onyx Path's homework now.

Then you have the final death be due to a change up top; the new guys only really care about their strategy games and squeezing money out of the pigs, so they're letting it all stay on life support. They have no interest in the World of Darkness, not after they couldn't handle the people they hired for it being as they always were; weird fuckers who could do shit like make the Gypsies splat.
 
Ventrue said:
Paradox paid $1.2 million for White Wolf and $2 million dollars for 33% stake in Hardsuit Labs, plus the capital they spent on developing Bloodlines 2. They expect to break even when this game is released. :lossmanjack:
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No they don't. They can't just say they expect it to fail because they'd risk getting sued by investors. But they had their deputy CEO last year in an interview state they'd never touch it again and the only way another happens is if someone licenses it from them.

You don't issue statements like that if you have any actual confidence in the product. And that was after they were offering refunds for it in 2023.
Adamska said:
White Wolf's decision to have vampires be behind Chechnya was a big factor as well, since it generated so much controversy that lawsuits were threatened by Kadyrov if I recall correctly. It was a complete shitshow PR wise that spooked Paradox' heads so badly they gutted them from the company and it's why you have Renegade Games copying Onyx Path's homework now.
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Yeah, the white wolf business division was dissolved after that back in 2018 I think it was. The IP has been nothing but a shit show for Paradox for one reason or another the entire time.

2015 bought by paradox
2016 bloodlines 2 announced
2018 shut down after the chechnya shit because people are outraged even though the franchise survived after Berlin by Night
2019 announced bloodlines 2 was delayed
2020 a bunch of people at hardsuit labs left/got fired.
has their stupid youtube content creator "dark pack" launch forcing people to watermark their videos. https://web.archive.org/web/20201111212309/https://worldofdarkness.com/dark-pack
Renegade Games picks up the license to sanitize the shit people complained about from VTM and re-publish it
Flyos Games launches a boardgame kickstarter in February https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/flyosgames/vampire-the-masquerade-chapters/description
2021 The Chinese Room takes over bloodlines 2
2023 they've basically re-written the entire game, force refunds for some editions and offer voluntary refunds for others and cancelled the deal with the collectors edition merchandise company https://www.paradoxinteractive.com/games/vampire-the-masquerade-bloodlines-2/juneupdate-faq

Edition: Collector’s Edition​

Can I keep my pre-order? No, all Collector’s Edition pre-orders are being refunded.

Can I get a refund? Yes, all Collector’s Edition pre-orders are being refunded.

Edition: Other Physical Products​

Can I keep my pre-order? No, all physical product pre-orders are being refunded.

Can I get a refund? Yes, all other physical product pre-orders are being refunded

Why are you refunding all physical products?​

With the bonus content being updated, the prior physical edition offered items that are no longer representative of the game. This includes the Collector’s Edition created and sold by DPA Merchandising GmbH(formerly Gaya Entertainment GmbH), and all physical versions of the First Blood edition, Unsanctioned edition and Blood Moon edition disc.
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Boardgame shipped with problems, people are missing product, updates are sparse, apparently they're supposed to be shipping stickers to paste over parts of the rulebook
2024 Boardgame announced that they'll be shipping people their shit in Q2 2025
Paradox deputy CEO basically tries to beg investors to not bail and issues a statement(previously linked at the beginning of this post) that they'll never bother with a game like this again.

At this point it's not even just Paradox that has wasted money on this franchise
 
Hot take: World of Darkness is one of those franchises where the concept is great but the execution...Well, leads to the kinds of shitshows p1138 elaborated on above.

I still remember the shitshow with Beast: The Primordial.
 
GloryToArztotska said:
Hot take: World of Darkness is one of those franchises where the concept is great but the execution...Well, leads to the kinds of shitshows p1138 elaborated on above.

I still remember the shitshow with Beast: The Primordial.
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There's even shit missing from that. Parts of the VTM core book released before WW was shut down were written like a fucking tumblr kink post, I recall there being a TCG that was cancelled under Paradox's ownership, the shit show that was WW and Onyx Path before being bought by Paradox, the massive number of retcons and other unnecessary changes including which clans were sabbat and camarilla that didn't even make sense.

VTM didn't need to exist after the 90s and it should have died with the first Bloodlines game as it's magnum opus, instead of trying to drag on the shambling husk of an IP for another 20 years.
 
Chapalapachapa said:
whats up with these faggots shitting on troika.
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They're enraged they can't make something that makes people happy or appreciate their work. It's ironically like how Toreadors get pissy over their lack of creative spark after the embrace, just more petty.

Hilariously it's like how the Prince of Berlin started both World Wars just to dunk on a French Toreador who told him his art was shit.
 
Honest Coyote said:
The Second Inquisition works best when it fell on the Anarchs. It made the Camarilla seem more pragmatic evil instead of dumb evil for their rules. Trying to lean to far into the hunter's side gets messy though, because while the cynicism of WoD works well for the undead, it does not for holy soldiers chosen by heaven fighting against monsters and literal demons.
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I just want to eradicate the forces of evil and kill the shit out of vampires. Is that so wrong?

regalterry said:
HSL's dogshit project was no better though, just going into the other extreme. Nobody wants to play a thin blood, and it's impossible to make a cRPG with a protagonist that is a 400-year-old vampire, yet still require the player to be everyone's errand boy.

I do not understand what was so hard about replicating the first game, or what the tabletop recommends you to play as (cca. 13th gen vampire).

But we all know why the woke cucks at HSL went with the thin blood nonsense.

Also, while many are making up excuses for HSL, let's not forget that they were the ones that mismanaged the project so hard Paradox had no other recourse but to scarp it and start from scratch. From what I remember hearing, they were years deep in development and barely had anything to show for it, likely because they spent more time on collective struggle sessions than actually making the fucking game.


Yeah, now that's proper World of Darkness "through a glass darkly".
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I actually really dig the concept of thinbloods. But they need good writing modern writers are critically deficient on. There was potential In the conflict between being part human and part vampire even with the perks of having a secret identity. What enthralled me most was the possibility of being a vigilante pretending to be a vampire lord trying not to get stepped on or discovered by forces who actually know better.

I like the possibility that thinbloods are killed so often because given enough time they could be a serious threat. They just have.... Nothing beyond the cool concept in canon as everybody's punching bag.
 
Michael Wade said:
I like the possibility that thinbloods are killed so often because given enough time they could be a serious threat. They just have.... Nothing beyond the cool concept in canon as everybody's punching bag.
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The big reason thinbloods were worse than ghouls in older editions was they needed to use double the blood to do anything, which was kind of bullshit given they also could only access 8 or 6 boxes of their blood pool usually. I perfectly understand why they wanted to reformat them since that is genuinely BS.

I just think Thinblood Alchemy was fucking retarded and they tried to buff them too much.
 
Adamska said:
The big reason thinbloods were worse than ghouls in older editions was they needed to use double the blood to do anything, which was kind of bullshit given they also could only access 8 or 6 boxes of their blood pool usually. I perfectly understand why they wanted to reformat them since that is genuinely BS.

I just think Thinblood Alchemy was fucking retarded and they tried to buff them too much.
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By that point White Wolf's underdog fetish was already in full display. It was so fucking retarded.
 
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