Vampire the Masquerade Bloodlines: 2 - I want to believe, but...

[Übertroon]

Bold of you to assume they could even get close to the quality of the original even if they just copy everything. You can copy the work but you cant copy the talent.

Likely, but that makes it all the more certain that Bloodlines 2 could never improve upon the flaws of Bloodlines. It's too bad that we're never going to get a edgy vampire RPG where you get to seize power over a major city.

 

[Krokodil Overdose]

The problem with this game series is amy developer is gonna look to make this games defining feature the "action combat" when the defining feature should be compelling side quests and overall atmosphere.

Honestly, the only dev I think can get even close on the atmosphere and writing is Ice-Pick Lodge. And you'd have to tard wrangle them pretty hard to keep their auteur tendencies from taking over. You do want the plot to make sense internally with relatively little fourth wall fuckery (outside of the Malkavian path ofc.)

Honestly, Pathologic 2's mind map seems like an organic fit for a Bloodlines game. Hell, they could even start with their favorite kind of tutorial: one given by a character with a non-obcious agenda who will ignore or actively lie to you about game mechanics just to make it harder.

 

[The handsome tard]

Likely, but that makes it all the more certain that Bloodlines 2 could never improve upon the flaws of Bloodlines. It's too bad that we're never going to get a edgy vampire RPG where you get to seize power over a major city.

Bloodlines isnt Fallout New Vegas, you cant just go "Im the king of vampires now!". It would ironically be insulting given the lore and a shameless power fantasy (justliketheactualindependenceendingofNV)

Vampire is all about showing how, yeah, you are a kindred/vampire/whatever but you are just a tiny dot on the grand scale of things. You are barely above a thin blood. There are beings way more powerful than you that could wipe the floor with you if they wanted but simply keep you around because they either like you or think you are too useful to get rid of just yet (in in Smiling Jack's case, kind of both).

The closest thing to something like that is the "Picking no sides ending" which basically means you arent allied to anyone. And you dont take over anything, you just give the literal middle finger to all factions as you leave the stage. Thats it. One could say there was going to be more but the unfinished state left the game with very little around the finishing line.

But hey, in a way, whatever happened next was up to you

 

[Wormy]

Bloodlines isnt Fallout New Vegas, you cant just go "Im the king of vampires now!". It would ironically be insulting given the lore and a shameless power fantasy (justliketheactualindependenceendingofNV)

Vampire is all about showing how, yeah, you are a kindred/vampire/whatever but you are just a tiny dot on the grand scale of things. You are barely above a thin blood. There are beings way more powerful than you that could wipe the floor with you if they wanted but simply keep you around because they either like you or think you are too useful to get rid of just yet (in in Smiling Jack's case, kind of both).

The closest thing to something like that is the "Picking no sides ending" which basically means you arent allied to anyone. And you dont take over anything, you just give the literal middle finger to all factions as you leave the stage. Thats it. One could say there was going to be more but the unfinished state left the game with very little around the finishing line.

But hey, in a way, whatever happened next was up to you

Hell, being able to tell the Prince of a city to sit and spin in both word and action, and survive without ending up at the bottom of an ashtray is a big accomplishment in all versions of the game.

 

[The handsome tard]

Hell, being able to tell the Prince of a city to sit and spin in both word and action, and survive without ending up at the bottom of an ashtray is a big accomplishment in all versions of the game.

It is and I think the devs knew that this is as far as they could push the player's luck without starting to feel like a power fantasy that went against the lore.

But then again, the game shows that taking down the prince wasnt even your doing, you were a key part in getting there but the ultimate "fuck you" of triumph goes to Smiling Jack. So even your greatest accomplishment wasnt entirely thanks to you. Thats genius writing that gives a fair enough bit a of power and influence to the character without going against what the universe is all about.

 

[Übertroon]

Bloodlines isnt Fallout New Vegas, you cant just go "Im the king of vampires now!". It would ironically be insulting given the lore and a shameless power fantasy (justliketheactualindependenceendingofNV)

Vampire is all about showing how, yeah, you are a kindred/vampire/whatever but you are just a tiny dot on the grand scale of things. You are barely above a thin blood. There are beings way more powerful than you that could wipe the floor with you if they wanted but simply keep you around because they either like you or think you are too useful to get rid of just yet (in in Smiling Jack's case, kind of both).

The closest thing to something like that is the "Picking no sides ending" which basically means you arent allied to anyone. And you dont take over anything, you just give the literal middle finger to all factions as you leave the stage. Thats it. One could say there was going to be more but the unfinished state left the game with very little around the finishing line.

But hey, in a way, whatever happened next was up to you

I think that's thinking in the limited scope of Bloodlines 1 again. The original game is a shallow wade into vampire society. You're a fish out of water forced to do the dirty work of the big players in the setting and attempting your best to survive for what seems a few crazy nights to possibly a few months as shit hits the fan.
The main appeal for me in an RPG is growth, not just in powers and the amount of weapons your carry, but also in acquiring assets, allies, and information. To ideally capture the main draw of the setting you should be able to slowly climb the ranks and participate in the subterfuge, not just be a victim of circumstance as before. It can be justified in that the events of the story doesn't just transpire within a limited timespan regarding a single incident.
And then you could have multiple ways to fail, find yourself pissing off someone even more powerful, face challenges near impossible to overcome, supposed friends and allies betraying you, but it would be appealing if the opportunity to claw your way to the top of the shitpile was there.

 

[The handsome tard]

I think that's thinking in the limited scope of Bloodlines 1 again. The original game is a shallow wade into vampire society. You're a fish out of water forced to do the dirty work of the big players in the setting and attempting your best to survive for what seems a few crazy nights to possibly a few months as shit hits the fan.
The main appeal for me in an RPG is growth, not just in powers and the amount of weapons your carry, but also in acquiring assets, allies, and information. To ideally capture the main draw of the setting you should be able to slowly climb the ranks and participate in the subterfuge, not just be a victim of circumstance as before. It can be justified in that the events of the story doesn't just transpire within a limited timespan regarding a single incident.
And then you could have multiple ways to fail, find yourself pissing off someone even more powerful, face challenges near impossible to overcome, supposed friends and allies betraying you, but it would be appealing if the opportunity to claw your way to the top of the shitpile was there.

I honestly think your vision is either too big to be properly done in a VTMB type of game and/or is just not fitting with the lore in general.

Ironically when they tried a game with bigger stakes, it was VTM Redemption and that lead to mixed reception (Personally I still like it a lot but I can understand why many wouldnt).

VTMB is a game that dipped you just enough into a whole new world of darkness without overwhelming new players. Its perfect for doing that. We can assume they would have went deeper into lore territory with the sequels but I feel like what we had in the original was enough for us to get the gist of the setting. Thats why the game is a perfect entry level piece of media for those that want to get into the grander World of Darkness lore. There was a sequel and a Werewolf The Apocalypse game in the plans but they fell through. Bummer, I would have loved to see the world of darkness as told by these devs.

Edit: In fact, the genius thing is that they hint that there is bigger stakes with this ancient vampire getting awaken by the sarcophagus opening when turns out, nah, there was never any ancient powerful dormant vampire. It was literally fake news, yo. It was just a dead body and buuuunch of C4. Thats the biggest example of subversion of expectations done perfectly.

 

[God of Nothing]

Bloodlines isnt Fallout New Vegas, you cant just go "Im the king of vampires now!". It would ironically be insulting given the lore and a shameless power fantasy (justliketheactualindependenceendingofNV)

The closest thing to that is the Clan Quest mod's Sabbat route, and it requires siding with the right faction, learning some Sabbat customs, a fuck ton of diablerie, and a final 1v1 match with a buffed up Andrei that locks you out of any weapons.

oh yeah, you have to go through the Camarilla and Anarchs with limited support too

It was one of the most satisfying experiences I've ever had with the game, and the ending is ambiguous whether or not you are the new archbishop of LA.

 

[The handsome tard]

The closest thing to that is the Clan Quest mod's Sabbat route, and it requires siding with the right faction, learning some Sabbat customs, a fuck ton of diablerie, and a final 1v1 match with a buffed up Andrei that locks you out of any weapons.

oh yeah, you have to go through the Camarilla and Anarchs with limited support too

It was one of the most satisfying experiences I've ever had with the game, and the ending is ambiguous whether or not you are the new archbishop of LA.

Yeah but thats a mod, in that case you can go wild with your imagination.

At least they kind of justify your increasing powers through a lot diablerie. If you are going to go into this ludicrous path at least keep it relatively loyal to the lore's rules in most aspects.

 

[God of Nothing]

Yeah but thats a mod, in that case you can go wild with your imagination.

At least they kind of justify your increasing powers through a lot diablerie. If you are going to go into this ludicrous path at least keep it relatively loyal to the lore's rules in most aspects.

big daddy caine, bruh
8th gen in a 13th gen world

 

[Übertroon]

Yeah but thats a mod, in that case you can go wild with your imagination.

At least they kind of justify your increasing powers through a lot diablerie. If you are going to go into this ludicrous path at least keep it relatively loyal to the lore's rules in most aspects.

First game already made lots shortcuts to justify your power, you're supposedly the same generation as LaCroix who can apparently execute a 7th generation vampire without any repercussions

 

[Corn Flakes]

First game already made lots shortcuts to justify your power, you're supposedly the same generation as LaCroix who can apparently execute a 7th generation vampire without any repercussions

So the vampire that sired you was one of the city's fucking Primogen? What? Someone didn't think this through.

 

[The Demon Pimp of Razgriz]

First game already made lots shortcuts to justify your power, you're supposedly the same generation as LaCroix who can apparently execute a 7th generation vampire without any repercussions

So the vampire that sired you was one of the city's fucking Primogen? What? Someone didn't think this through.

That's one theory why you are as powerful as LaCroix and able to tell him to eat a dick. The other is that Cain is messing with your abilities and allowing you to punch above your (apparent) weight.

 

[God of Nothing]

So the vampire that sired you was one of the city's fucking Primogen? What? Someone didn't think this through.

That's one theory why you are as powerful as LaCroix and able to tell you to eat a dick. The other is that Cain is messing with your abilities and allowing you to punch above your (apparent) weight.

Another theory is that Caine is your actual sire and just gave you the 8th gen as a freebie. He's the entire reason why his blood weakens as it's passed down, so I can see it being possible, albeit very chosen one-ish

 

[Tactical Wizard]

That's one theory why you are as powerful as LaCroix and able to tell him to eat a dick. The other is that Cain is messing with your abilities and allowing you to punch above your (apparent) weight.

Looking at the code, you're an eighth gen. You have fifteen blood points and you burn three of them when you use Blood buff. A little munchkiny but still straight out of the core book.

 

[wrangled tard]

Can Vampires dominate other Vampires of the same generation? LaCroix pretty liberally dominates the player throughout pretty much the entire game, it's one of the reasons you have so little agency.

 

[Übertroon]

Can Vampires dominate other Vampires of the same generation? LaCroix pretty liberally dominates the player throughout pretty much the entire game, it's one of the reasons you have so little agency.

Not an expert on VTM lore, but I would assume that while being of the same potential power level, LaCroix still has two centuries of experience over your fledling ass

 

[The Demon Pimp of Razgriz]

Can Vampires dominate other Vampires of the same generation? LaCroix pretty liberally dominates the player throughout pretty much the entire game, it's one of the reasons you have so little agency.

The answer is no, no he can't, which is why he is shocked when you break his domination later on in the game. He thought you were a lower (well, numerically higher) generation, thus could bully you as much as he wants. When you suddenly break his domination out of nowhere, despite it working on you earlier in the game, is when he really starts to freak out toward the end.

 

[God of Nothing]

Not an expert on VTM lore, but I would assume that while being of the same potential power level, LaCroix still has two centuries of experience over your fledling ass

he's a ventrue, which means he's got two centuries of kissing ass under his belt

The answer is no, no he can't, which is why he is shocked when you break his domination later on in the game. He thought you were a lower (well, numerically higher) generation, thus could bully you as much as he wants. When you suddenly break his domination out of nowhere, despite it working on you earlier in the game, is when he really starts to freak out toward the end.

willpower baby, you can use a flamethrower without any innate panic
i ain't gotta explain shit

 

[Dom Cruise]

Can someone explain to me why Activision felt like Bloodlines 1 just HAD to come out in the absurdly crowded fall 2004 season instead of have another six months of polish and come out in the much less crowded spring/summer of 2005?

Makes zero sense to me, just Bobby being Bobby?

I guess if it had another year of development it could have been overshadowed by the release of the Xbox 360, but another six months would have helped and also increased it's financial chances not going up against stuff like fucking Half-Life 2.

It just makes zero sense to me.