Undertale / Deltarune / Toby Fox Discussion

  • 🏰 The Fediverse is up. If you know, you know.
  • Want to keep track of this thread?
    Accounts can bookmark posts, watch threads for updates, and jump back to where you stopped reading.
    Create account
Reminder that the voice that says "will now be discarded" and "your choices don't matter in this world" is NOT whoever helped you create your vessel.

It's designated as a different entity entirely, so whoever is telling you your choices don't matter is very likely the person who's making sure that's the case. Your choices very much do matter, but as of yet the only way to break free is to mindrape Noelle.
 
Last edited:
Sentinel of the Green said:
Because I need someone to like me
Click to expand...
I hate to say it, pal, but you might unironically be too autistic for this videogame meant for people 13 and up. You should probably stick to Mario or something.
Sentinel of the Green said:
I'm not autistic for wanting to enjoy my fantasy RPG.
Click to expand...
You are for being unable to grasp very basic meta narrative gimmicks and being far too emotionally attached to a videogame. Despite the pretension, you are not LITERALLY involved in the plot of this videogame buddy. Please take your medicine.
gaysexenjoyer said:
You choices very much do matter, but as of yet the only way to break free is to mindrape Noelle.
Click to expand...
I think it is also worth noting that recruitment and sparing have had noticeable important effects so far. Saving Tenna and Jackenstein, having a Castle Town full of an army of friendly Darkners, no way that isn't going to be a big boon to you at some point.

Kris is our cage and very likely to be the voice that we heard when our vessel was discarded. Getting a new vessel will be the key to stopping the bad end. Gaster is on our side. He wants the ending to change.
 
Last edited:
Deus Exica said:
Getting a new vessel will be the key to stopping the bad end. Gaster is on our side. He wants the ending to change.
Click to expand...
a26a7ebkqiif1.webp

I don't think Gaster gives a shit about the DR universe or the people in it, he just cares about us and how we interact with it.
 
Deus Exica said:
I hate to say it, pal, but you might unironically be too autistic for this videogame meant for people 13 and up. You should probably stick to Mario or something.

You are for being unable to grasp very basic meta narrative gimmicks and being far too emotionally attached to a videogame. Despite the pretension, you are not LITERALLY involved in the plot of this videogame buddy. Please take your medicine.

I think it is also worth noting that recruitment and sparing have had noticeable important effects so far. Saving Tenna and Jackenstein, having a Castle Town full of an army of friendly Darkners, no way that isn't going to be a big boon to you at some point.

Kris is our cage and very likely to be the voice that we heard when our vessel was discarded. Getting a new vessel will be the key to stopping the bad end. Gaster is on our side. He wants the ending to change.
Click to expand...
Gaster has never been on my side. Not a word about the missing vessel, or the fact that Kris has jumped in bed with the Roaring Knight. No orders on how to proceed. Nothing on what the final prophecy is(characters get to see it but not me?).
 
Sentinel of the Green said:
Gaster has never been on my side. Not a word about the missing vessel, or the fact that Kris has jumped in bed with the Roaring Knight.
Click to expand...
I think he just doesn't give a shit about Kris. As long as you have any vessel he's happy. He's helping YOU, not Kris, and a lot of your problems with the game seem to stem from your inability to separate yourself from him. He cheers you on when you almost beat the roaring knight, and gives you a quicksave/load so you can try again, even though he knows you can't ever really win.
 
If I was toby fox I would add a line "An apple a day keeps the doctor away" somewhere so muh fanbase would shit themselves theorizing over the kris/gaster connection and then deliver nothing at the end of the game 😂
 
Big Shot said:
If I was toby fox I would add a line "An apple a day keeps the doctor away" somewhere so muh fanbase would shit themselves theorizing over the kris/gaster connection and then deliver nothing at the end of the game 😂
Click to expand...
More like "an egg a day makes my homeboy gay," you hear that Kris YOU'RE GAY
 
Dr. Ricearoni said:
I think he just doesn't give a shit about Kris. As long as you have any vessel he's happy. He's helping YOU, not Kris, and a lot of your problems with the game seem to stem from your inability to separate yourself from him. He cheers you on when you almost beat the roaring knight, and gives you a quicksave/load so you can try again, even though he knows you can't ever really win.
Click to expand...
Then he should give me something to let me disembowel Kris and get a character who will actually listen and do the job I was ordered to do.
 
I'm very late to finishing the game. I was not only busy with other stuff but also played through the game 3 times so as not to miss anything. Well, I played 90% through chapter 1 once and then split files off from there. So now I have three clear files ready for chapter 5. A neutral file where I grabbed the Thorn Ring and broke Berdly's arm but otherwise spared and recruited everyone, a Weird Route file where I beat up a few people in chapters 3 and 4, and a pure pacifism file. I have all the Shadow Crystals and as many Eggs as you can get on all three files. I skipped the Shadow Mantle on the pacifist file because it's scary not something a good boy should be doing (or more seriously, to see if it has any effect on anything later).

Since I missed so much, I'll just have to dump a bunch of thoughts I have all at once.

Hot Takes
Don't know why people are complaining about the bootleg NES Zelda sections in Chapter 3 so much. They were fine to me. I'd dare say better than the climbing sections in Chapter 4.
All the stuff with Rouxls Kaard was the funniest part of Chapter 3, actually.

I think Ralsei is fine as a character, and a lot of negatively towards him is really aimed at people who say and draw things that play into his face value aesthetic very hard. At base he serves as an opposite to Susie, and later chapters have made it clear his doormat personality goes to a somewhat dark and fucked up extent. He's essentially a emotional-support stuffed animal brought to life; soft, cuddly, and non-threatening, but lacking in any real substance beneath the surface. He has no real likes or dislikes, or hobbies. He only does things for the sake of Kris and Susie. He doesn't even know what his own cooking tastes like, only that he makes it because he knows Kris and Susie will like it. And Susie and potentially Kris's efforts to get Ralsei to assert himself puts him in a contradiction. For him to really be a true friend to Kris and Susie and give them the sort of emotional support a real person could, he ironically needs to grow more of a self-centric ego and desires, but that goes against his very nature as a being made just to offer quick and easy comfort. And him growing more self-aware of this as time goes on gives him an emotional struggle he doesn't know how to resolve.

Susie Bleeding
People are making some schizo theories about this, but honestly, I think Toby Fox always intended monsters to bleed and fans just got too caught up in their own ideas otherwise. The only evidence against monsters bleeding is the statement in Undertale that they're made of mostly magic like how humans are made of mostly water, and that they turn into dust when they die. But, neither of those facts actually preclude them having blood in their body than can bleed out when cut. Maybe the blood is also made of magic and blood cells like how human blood is made of water and blood cells? And I'm pretty sure the turning the dust thing only exists as a meta play on how the monsters fade away when you kill them like enemy death animations usually do in JRPGs. There is that little kid bunny in Deltarune who asks Kris if it hurts being made of blood, but I think if the theory is hinging on something said by a dumb little kid then it's a weak position. Especially when his question implies he has a mental association between blood being injured.

The Prophecy
Obviously the prophecy is pretty vague, and so everyone can argue endlessly over who's the girl or whatever. My main interest is that I like the idea that the prophecy is multi-layered via retellings and has happened before to an extent. It's something I thought of while playing before I looked and saw some other people had similar ideas. I suspect the prophecy the church has in the Light World isn't nearly as detailed as what you see in the Dark World and what Ralsei knows. I also suspect that all the Dreemur and Holiday kids played Dragon Blazers

I think maybe Dragon Blazers inspired the game of make-believe Ramb mentioned that at least Kris and Dess played, and that the Dark World is as much a retelling of what happened in that game as it is a prophecy of what will happen now with Kris, Susie, and Ralsei. And it seems like there's a high chance the Dark World was involved in that old game as well, and perhaps whatever tragedy is at the end of the prophecy is related to why Dess is missing.

Asgore
I can't predict what's going to happen with him. Because I can't see any other conclusion to his subplot except him sacrificing himself, but I don't think that's the sort of thing Toby Fox would do. It just seems like the most obvious route to go with given he's someone who feels regret about not being able to stop what happened in the past and wants to make amends, has knowledge about the situation that can't solve the plot immediately but could make too helpful of an ally in the future if not taken out of the story right after he does what he can help, and he's something of an innocent comic relief character so his death would be a huge sign that shit is completely real now, plus it would be the signal that things can't be fixed for the Dreemurs to go back to the way things were and it would fuck Kris up emotionally even more for when things get really bad in chapter 6. And while I'm at it, imagine if what happened isn't known to anyone else in the Light World, so after it happens Toriel says something insensitive about Asgore that makes Kris freak out - the shitstorm in the fanbase would be hilarious.

It doesn't really seem will actually happen, but it's about what I would do if I was told to write what happens next knowing only what we know. Though who knows, maybe Toby will do something like that but he won't die but be incapacitated like Snowgrave'd Berdly.

Bonus Pictures
1751260949792.webp 54e853b4b0b4c44197e636c552c2e586.webp
 
Big Shot said:
I still subscribe to "ralsei has ulterior motives" theory,
Click to expand...
The game could literally not shout this from the rooftop any harder. Its less of a theory and more of a passing observation.
Dr. Ricearoni said:
and gives you a quicksave/load so you can try again, even though he knows you can't ever really win.
Click to expand...
wait im confused when does gaster appear/cheer you on/give you the save system?
 
Oilspill Battery said:
wait im confused when does gaster appear/cheer you on/give you the save system?
Click to expand...
when you lose to the roaring knight gaster is the one talking to you and letting you reload to try again. if you dont have the shadow mantle he gives you a hint saying that youre missing something and you cant win this way. if you die to the knights final attack gaster gives you a pep talk.
also at one point theres a green save/load screen where instead of the typical save window dialogue its gaster talking to you directly just like in the goner maker, i think it was at the start of chapter 1 or maybe only in the demo
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom