Undertale / Deltarune / Toby Fox Discussion

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10811.webp
 
Dr. Ricearoni said:
Why are you getting upset over things that haven't happened? You've made assumptions about the world, characters, and ending of a game that isn't finished yet, and you're upset about this entirely imaginary version of the game that exists only in your head.
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What else can I do? Why do you think theorists exist? Because nothing of substance is being told to the player. I have no choice but to guess or just blindly accept everything the game throws at me.

Kris is opposing my mission? Wonderful. LET ME OPPOSE HIM BACK. Instead of asking me to shut my eyes and ears and pretend it didn't happen just to continue the game.

Any of you ever play Oneshot? That's a game that treats its player with dignity.
 
Sentinel of the Green said:
What else can I do? Why do you think theorists exist? Because nothing of substance is being told to the player. I have no choice but to guess or just blindly accept everything the game throws at me.

Kris is opposing my mission? Wonderful. LET ME OPPOSE HIM BACK. Instead of asking me to shut my eyes and ears and pretend it didn't happen just to continue the game.

Any of you ever play Oneshot? That's a game that treats its player with dignity.
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You are opposing him back, by continuing to play the game. If that's not enough, ruin his friends life in the weird route. The difference between Niko and Kris is that Niko likes having you around. Kris doesn't. I'm sorry Toby didn't give you a button that instantly kills Kris for disobeying you occasionally.
 
Dr. Ricearoni said:
You are opposing him back, by continuing to play the game. If that's not enough, ruin his friends life in the weird route. The difference between Niko and Kris is that Niko likes having you around. Kris doesn't. I'm sorry Toby didn't give you a button that instantly kills Kris for disobeying you occasionally.
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Am I though? He could literally undo everything in a second. Dark Fountain sealed? Oops, here's another one, and Kris would gladly make more. Trying to get into the Shelter? Oops, Kris made it eminently clear that he does not want you there. Everything that has happened only happened because Kris wanted it to.

If Kris won't treat me with dignity, give me a protagonist who will. That is how you have your player be a separate character, rather than the game figuratively(and literally now) treating me like a rat.
 
Sentinel of the Green said:
Am I though? He could literally undo everything in a second. Dark Fountain sealed? Oops, here's another one, and Kris would gladly make more. Trying to get into the Shelter? Oops, Kris made it eminently clear that he does not want you there. Everything that has happened only happened because Kris wanted it to.

If Kris won't treat me with dignity, give me a protagonist who will. That is how you have your player be a separate character, rather than the game figuratively(and literally now) treating me like a rat.
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Why do you need Kris to like you? I think the fact that we're at odds and yet need each other to be infinitely more interesting.
 
Dr. Ricearoni said:
Why do you need Kris to like you? I think the fact that we're at odds and yet need each other to be infinitely more interesting.
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Because I need someone to like me. As opposed to ignorance at best and opposition at worst. Because when you introduce the player as a separate character, but give said character no interactions with any of the characters, it creates a problem. A problem that would not exist if I could simply play as Kris.

To put it simply, I find it hard to give a shit otherwise. It's the lack of synergy, which leads to the lack of immersion.
 
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Sentinel of the Green said:
Because I need someone to like me.
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That's what Susie is for. Although Kris gives you options to pick from, it's still the way you control him that made Susie warm up to Kris. That's why Noelle and Susie have different ideas about how Kris acts. The reason why Kris and Susie weren't good friends before chapter 1, despite being on the same wavelength, is because Kris normally acts like a dead fish.
 
Cryogonal2 said:
That's what Susie is for. Although Kris gives you options to pick from, it's still the way you control him that made Susie warm up to Kris. That's why Noelle and Susie have different ideas about how Kris acts. The reason why Kris and Susie weren't good friends before chapter 1, despite being on the same wavelength, is because Kris normally acts like a dead fish.
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I don't get it, how? I don't get exactly what happened in chapter 1 to make Susie like Kris. The bit where he jumps in front of the King's attack? That was all Kris, allegedly.
 
needforsneed said:
Have you never heard of dramatic irony? The characters know stuff we don't, but we also know stuff they don't. It keeps the audience in suspense for when the bubble pops.
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IF the bubble pops. I'm not convinced it will.

I get the feeling the game will try to preach to me about how evil I am for wanting to know the final prophecy(the characters get to see it, I don't, and the game has the gall to ask my opinion on it?), for wanting to complete the mission I was given, without the protagonist being in bed with the enemy. Preaching in a way Undertale never would have dared.

I'm telling you, this whole plot point could be removed and nothing of value would be lost. Let Kris be my hero, or give me someone who will be. Susie won't, she'd turn at the drop of a hat, and so would Ralsei.


I've heard of dramatic irony. I just don't think Toby Fox has, since the game pretends Kris betraying the Fun Gang is completely normal, and the game continues without a hitch. You have no clue how absolutely livid I was when the Holiday House sequence ended. You cannot have a meta narrative without dignity, and Deltarune, especially now, has nothing but undignified in this regard. Kris steals my adventure from me, and what does he do with it? Stab the heroes in the back(and get away with it), while I'm treated as a rat for trying to follow direct orders.
 
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Sentinel of the Green said:
IF the bubble pops. I'm not convinced it will.

I get the feeling the game will try to preach to me about how evil I am for wanting to know the final prophecy(the characters get to see it, I don't, and the game has the gall to ask my opinion on it?), for wanting to complete the mission I was given, without the protagonist being in bed with the enemy. Preaching in a way Undertale never would have dared.

I'm telling you, this whole plot point could be removed and nothing of value would be lost. Let Kris be my hero, or give me someone who will be. Susie won't, she'd turn at the drop of a hat, and so would Ralsei.


I've heard of dramatic irony. I just don't think Toby Fox has, since the game pretends Kris betraying the Fun Gang is completely normal, and the game continues without a hitch. You have no clue how absolutely livid I was when the Holiday House sequence ended. You cannot have a meta narrative without dignity, and Deltarune, especially now, has nothing but undignified in this regard. Kris steals my adventure from me, and what does he do with it? Stab the heroes in the back(and get away with it), while I'm treated as a rat for trying to follow direct orders.
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Hey, I don't know if this slipped by you or something, but...

ycdm.webp
 
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