Ukrainian Defensive War against the Russian Invasion - Mark IV: The Partitioning of Discussion

[thx1138]

Jai Russia, Slava Hind saar, India stands with sexy Russia women against Ukropiggie globohomo nazis saar, BRICS won, Bharat won, NATO nazi imperialists lost

So we know how Russian women are and we know how Indian men are, is this going to be like a matter/antimatter combination?

 

[Fanatical Pragmatist]

"I gave Putin two weeks".. "I give you two months"

Donald is a cuck of a president, sorry @Ghostse

Giving Russia more time to capture whatever they want, blame the "Eurocucks" all you want. Both Europe and America have failed freedom and democracy with the Ukrainian war, and America will fail again when China attacks Taiwan again.

Just ot let you all know, America invented terrorism.

Nice join date, faggot.

 

[I'm a Silly]

Just ot let you all know, America invented terrorism.

Don't say we never gave you anything!

 

[Ghostse]

The Leopard II the Euros love so much, also weights as much as the Abrams. Poland is getting Abrams in addition to the K-2 Panther variant. Going by the feedback from the Ukrainians, Leopard IIs are preferred mainly on the number of Euros who already using it.

The Leopard II weighs as much, but they can build the on the same continent instead of needing to ship them from the US. And ship them back when this is over.

Poland has and is expanding a significant Abrams arm, but that arm is part of its NATO commitment. It is expected that Poland is the Abram's logistics hub and primary armor staging and training ground. Poland initially intended to standardize on the Abrams but Egypt didn't want to erode their monopoly on Abrams supply (and probably feared competition from a moderately functional industrial base would end them)
Poland didn't want to rely on foreign supply to keep their tanks going in the event things went to shit, hence they diversified by building licensed Souk tank with their own engine.

The fact the manual for the Leopard has been translated to Slavic languages for a while is something I hadn't thought of, but also plays in I'm sure.

 

[Tactical Wizard]

Honestly? Both the Leopard II and the Abrams are both competent systems that can throw down with anything that the Russians can throw at them.

 

[Fatsuit Shinji]

Honestly? Both the Leopard II and the Abrams are both competent systems that can throw down with anything that the Russians can throw at them.

Only real difference is the Leopard II hull stowage being unprotected. While the Abrams hull stowage is protected; provided the end users haven't just yanked out the ammo racks and use the space as generic storage. Since it only holds about three or four rounds and getting them in and out of there is supposedly a pain in the ass.
Everything else is mostly on the infrastructure of which there's more of it and closer to Ukraine.

 

[Foltest]

They really like the Swedish version of Leo II, which is a beefed up version of it.
I am proud that we swedes have been steadfast in our support of Ukraine.

 

[No. 7 cat]

"I gave Putin two weeks".. "I give you two months"

Donald is a cuck of a president, sorry @Ghostse

Giving Russia more time to capture whatever they want, blame the "Eurocucks" all you want. Both Europe and America have failed freedom and democracy with the Ukrainian war, and America will fail again when China attacks Taiwan again.

Just ot let you all know, America invented terrorism.

Trump would need to give Russia years to capture anything beyond a few dormitory towns. Bitch Putin isn't exactly like his (institutional or actual) ancestor Genghis Khan.

https://united24media.com/latest-news/inside-russias-sanctions-economy-universities-now-training-compliance-experts-9924

Moscow's HSE (HSE.ru) is teaching a Masters in sanctions busting or compliance as they call it, navigate restricted trade without raising red flags.

 

[Mound Dweller]

What's the clock looking like on Orban's little tinpot LARP? He's getting fucked next cycle the colourCIA bois will see to that, doubt he has the means to prevent this so what's the worst damage he can even manage on his way out?

Nice join date, faggot.

@-Jack- is a known literal faggot yes and he really needs to stop socking already.

 

[I do not have gonoreea]

The Leopard II weighs as much, but they can build the on the same continent instead of needing to ship them from the US. And ship them back when this is over.

Poland has and is expanding a significant Abrams arm, but that arm is part of its NATO commitment. It is expected that Poland is the Abram's logistics hub and primary armor staging and training ground. Poland initially intended to standardize on the Abrams but Egypt didn't want to erode their monopoly on Abrams supply (and probably feared competition from a moderately functional industrial base would end them)
Poland didn't want to rely on foreign supply to keep their tanks going in the event things went to shit, hence they diversified by building licensed Souk tank with their own engine.

The fact the manual for the Leopard has been translated to Slavic languages for a while is something I hadn't thought of, but also plays in I'm sure.

Romania is also going hard on the Abrams train, in a story that draws parallels to Poland's, albeit on a smaller scale. Those two will probsbly be overall the joint Abrams-gookstuff hub for Europe

 

[latinlover]

What's the clock looking like on Orban's little tinpot LARP? He's getting fucked next cycle the colourCIA bois will see to that, doubt he has the means to prevent this so what's the worst damage he can even manage on his way out?

There is no set date for the election yet as the President will have to announce it, but give or take 270 days.

He saw to it himself, honestly, there was no CIA involvement. It's always funny when I see anyone insinuating that he's just so unfathomably based, far right, and Evropapilled that there is foreign intervention needed to remove him and replace him with some tranny, it's as far from the truth as anything ever could be.

The polling institute that was the most accurate when it came to the MEP elections are currently polling TISZA (THE opposition party) in the "Certain that will vote and has a favored party" demographic group 18 percentages ahead (52% vs 34%). Note: due to how the election system is tilted in Hungary a result like this would be enough for a 2/3 parliamentary supermajority which would enable them to modify the constitution- and ideally undo the changes Orban and co have done to it in 15 years (of the same kind of supermajority).

There is nothing in particular that's damaging enough that he could on his way out (besides stealing more, which they are actively doing as it's the fundamental core of the entire system), all they can do is make it harder to clean shit up- which they have already done by entrenching themselves in. They did this through complete institutional domination, right from the bottom to the top all the key figures are FIDESZ affiliated and they will be there post-election. Couple examples:
The Chief Prosecutor, his term will run until 2028 (ex-FIDESZ politician, nuff said). If the prosecutor's office wouldn't indict (in say corruption charges related to FIDESZ politicians) post-election, then nothing happens, so he's the first, and largest roadblock.
Constitutional Court: Completely dominated by FIDESZ-appointed judges, 12 year terms.
Nastional Media and Communications Authority: 12 year mandate, full of FIDESZ goofs
Fiscal council, State Audit Office, etc. etc. all filled to the brim with FIDESZ yes men.
Honorable mention: The private sector, where roughly 25% (no exaggeration whatsoever, this is the number most watchdogs cite) of the country is in the hands of FIDESZ-oligarchs. Some sectors more than others, like in the case of print and regional media this number is like 90%. Also the vast majority of Agriculture, Construction, Infrastructure, Energy, significant portions of banking (like MBH) are directly in the hands of Mészáros/Garancsiesque oligarchs.

This is why most people are speculating that a regular victory will not be a victory at all, without the challenger getting the supermajority to modify the constitution FIDESZ will just sabotage and durdle the next 4 years and nothing will change.

Sorry for the double post but this is probably the most hilarious thing Orban has ever done in his life, hands down. (also not completely off-topic, its about Ukrainian grain)

They organized a protest in Budapest (like 80 geriatric pensioners). The tyrannical ruling party, that has ruled the country with a constitution-changing supermajority (soft-)dictatorship for the past 15 years, in absolute control of every single governmental institution, is organizing protests with the slogan "The rebellion starts now!" against fucking UKRAINIAN GRAIN in the capital of the country. Truly the most brilliant politician of our times, bravo.

Signs saying: 'We don't want Ukrainian flour and meat!' and 'The Green Deal is a dead end!'

The caption by Orban says: "Protest in Budapest. Brussel's plan would ruin Hungarian farmers. I propose the most radical form of resistance. The rebellion starts now!"

He's really starting to practice being an opposition politician, which is smart, he'll need it later.

 

[Ghostse]

https://united24media.com/latest-news/inside-russias-sanctions-economy-universities-now-training-compliance-experts-9924

Moscow's HSE (HSE.ru) is teaching a Masters in sanctions busting or compliance as they call it, navigate restricted trade without raising red flags.

Sadly I can see this being a growth industry for Russia.
"Business with the worst and least trustworthy people in the world"

Small interesting bit I noticed in the article.

Earlier, it was reported that Dmitry Medvedev, Deputy Chairman of Russia’s Security Council and former Russian President, dismissed Donald Trump’s pledge to impose 100% import tariffs on Russia and its trade partners if no Ukraine ceasefire deal is reached within 50 days as a “theatrical ultimatum” unlikely to sway Moscow.

My nigga, are you high? Have you not been paying attention for the past 6 months? Trump has already demonstrated he completely, totally will sanction anyone and everyone. I agree that its not going to change Putin's mind, but its going to make Russian assaults even more hilarious than they already are.

Romania is also going hard on the Abrams train, in a story that draws parallels to Poland's, albeit on a smaller scale. Those two will probsbly be overall the joint Abrams-gookstuff hub for Europe

Ironically prior to 2014 NATO would not have wanted to base massed armor in Romania for fear of gypsies stealing them for scrap making Ukraine feel threatened.

Honestly? Both the Leopard II and the Abrams are both competent systems that can throw down with anything that the Russians can throw at them.

A lot of the Abrams' advantages are lessened or absent when put them in the hands or Euros. But a monkey model Abrams is more than a match for a MY NAME IS TEE NINETY EMM NOW, DAD

 

[Fanatical Pragmatist]

Honestly? Both the Leopard II and the Abrams are both competent systems that can throw down with anything that the Russians can throw at them.

Honestly of the Soviet shit, watching T-64s fight T-72s like some post-Soviet "who's design bureau was better?" would be hilariously cathartic if not for the real people dying in them.

 

[latinlover]

Slow news day I guess, so I'll allow myself some more magyarposting trvth nvkes.

The diplomatic relations between Ukraine and Hungary rapidly deteriorate even further as Hungary bans three Ukrainian military officials from entering its territory

TLDR.: this is in response to the situation I detailed a few posts ago, about the ethnic Hungarian conscript's death (and whether it was natural or due to alleged beatings)

Twitter catfight between the Foreign Minister of Ukraine and Orbán Balázs (senior advisor to Orbán Viktor, no blood relation)


Additional lore about this dumb nigger (Orbán Balázs): near the start 2024 he essentially committed political suicide and was in the news cycle for months as a literal traitor to Hungary. In an interview discussing the Ukrainian war in the perspective of our 1956 freedom fight against the Soviet Union he claimed that if it was up to him they would not have resisted in order to avoid meaningless loss of lives, implying the correct decision would have been to not fight back against the USSR and just surrender. There was criticism about him desecrating pretty much one of the country's most defining historical moments and the freedom fighters who died fighting for it.

He was politically sidelined for a long-long time due to his comments, and similar to Szájer József (the FIDESZ politician caught in Brussels trying to rappel down the side of a house during the covid lockdowns to escape the police, running from a gay orgy with a backpack full of drugs) he was also rehabilitated fairly recently simply because there isn't enough literate good old boys under the age of 75 anymore and they need every hand on deck.

Additional reasons why the whole beaten to death thing is likely to be propaganda, or if we're being more generous, far overblown:

Szerhij Pataki/ Сергій Потокі, an ethnic Hungarian soldier in the Ukrainian army, likely became a POW after the Bahmut battle. He had two children, and before the war he was a fruits and vegetables vendor. He was beheaded by Russians on video published to Telegram to mass Russian approval, and his head ended up in a trashbag apparently sent as a gift to the Russian command. It's truly vile, here's the wikipedia article for it: 2022 Ukrainian prisoner of war beheading

If you visit the wikipedia article, you'll notice something interesting. You Ctrl+f "Hungary" and nothing will come up. You go to the "Reactions" section, and you'll find people like the Czech president, the Estonian foreign minister commenting on it and the brutality of Russians, various UK politicians, German politicians- what you won't see is the Hungarian government even acknowledging it. The reasoning is very simple- they didn't. When this happened, you only ever came accross this in Hungary if you were reading strongly opposition aligned online newspapers/sites. There was no reaction whatsoever from the government.
No diplomatic repercussions. No press briefings. No sternly worded letters. No disavowing Russia. Not even showing solidarity, thoughts and prayers, whatever to the deceased's family, just completely buried, as if it never happened. Actually, the whole thing wasn't even acknowledged.

If you look at how hard they are trying to create something out of nothing in a situation where they have zero actual proof of Ukrainian wrongdoing as opposed to how they handled the Pataki situation, it would immediately make me skeptical about their motivations or the veracity of their claims even without any prior opinions on everything else. Truly disgusting. This was Pataki:


RIP

Edit.: I've seen this reported as "Poles being butthurt for no reason" in the other thread, so I'll share it here with some historical context.

It's been a tough week for Hungarian diplomacy overall. Not only this, but Poland has also formally, permanently recalled their ambassador to Hungary and replaced him with a chargé d’affaires. This is absolutely unprecedented in modern Central-European diplomacy, it has never happened before, especially if you take into account historical Polish-Hungarian relations. If you are unfamiliar with Central-European history, these two nations share an amazing friendship and heritage together. "Polak, Węgier- dwa bratanki, i do szabli, i do szklanki/Lengyel, magyar- két jó barát..." is a little proverbial saying dating back to the 16th century and still said often when the topic of the other country comes up in either one (you'll find lots of this as youtube comments under videos of old Polish and Hungarian military songs/anthems), meaning "Hungarian and Pole are two good friends, they drink and fight together".

Through the medieval period with many wars fought on the same side, sharing many kings and nobles, and even after, when Hungary funded the 1830 Polish insurgency, when 10000 Polish volunteers fought in the Hungarian Revolution of 1848, when Hungary sent 30000 cavalrymen to Poland's aid during the Polish-Soviet War of 1919. Between all of this, Poland never formally ratifying the Treaty of Trianon, Hungarians fighting in the 1944 Warsaw uprising, Poles donating blood and sending 50 tons of supplies to the 1956 Revolution I mentioned earlier- all of this outdone by one man and barely more than a decade.. Truly a historic achievement yet again, good job, Orban!

 

[No. 7 cat]

https://youtu.be/_AI0gi8T50o?si=peLHwp3uvxPQzW-4

Ukraine's 20th Army Corps liberated the Yalta and Voskresenka settlements in the Donetsk region. The 31st Brigade raised a flag in the Voskresenka. The 505th Separate Marine Battalion raised a flag in the Yalta.

Big boy will need another four centuries to conquer Ukraine, which he doesn't have.

 

[Falcos_Commisar]

The Leopard II the Euros love so much, also weights as much as the Abrams. Poland is getting Abrams in addition to the K-2 Panther variant. Going by the feedback from the Ukrainians, Leopard IIs are preferred mainly on the number of Euros who already using it. For survivability Ukrainians don't use the hull ammunition storage since it's not protected and open to the crew compartment. So only the turret ammunition stowage is used. Still for self preservation reasons, Ukraine altogether is looking outside of Europe for military hardware licensing needs for the immediate future.

The reason the Leopard 2 got so popular is that post 1992 the Germans, the Danes and the Dutch sold off massive amounts of Leopard 2 tanks for very little money.

That said, these days a new build Leopard 2A7/8 is as much as a comparable M1A2SepV3 or K2. Plus you have to deal with idiotic German export restrictions, hence the K2 Black Panther and M1A2 seeing lots of export wins recently.

 

[Ghostse]

https://youtu.be/_AI0gi8T50o?si=peLHwp3uvxPQzW-4

Ukraine's 20th Army Corps liberated the Yalta and Voskresenka settlements in the Donetsk region. The 31st Brigade raised a flag in the Voskresenka. The 505th Separate Marine Battalion raised a flag in the Yalta.

Big boy will need another four centuries to conquer Ukraine, which he doesn't have.

All part of the Cauldron, comrade. While Ukrops are burning men and their precious western equipment taking meaningless villages, Putins generals are building the cauldron. In just two more weeks Pokrovsk will fall, and then because I don't know how to read a map the seige of Kiev will start.

 

[Fatsuit Shinji]

The reason the Leopard 2 got so popular is that post 1992 the Germans, the Danes and the Dutch sold off massive amounts of Leopard 2 tanks for very little money.

I had been watching all of that occur back in the 1990ies and the collective destruction of almost everyone else's M.I.C. and infrastructure.

That said, these days a new build Leopard 2A7/8 is as much as a comparable M1A2SepV3 or K2.

Only as long as the armor isn't penetrated. Which why the Polish variant of the K2 will have the hull ammunition stowage, armored and with blowout panels like the Abrams. During Desert Storm, the Iraqis did get over a half dozen penetrating hits on where the Abrams hull stowage is. With the loaders getting minor to serious injuries at worst.

Plus you have to deal with idiotic German export restrictions, hence the K2 Black Panther and M1A2 seeing lots of export wins recently.

Problem with the Leopard II and other euro AFVs and most especially aircraft, is the number of different components with their licenses from different nations associated with them. Poland found this out with their Crab SPG and relearn the lessons Brazil's Engesa company had learn with their EE-T1 Osório tank back in the 1980ies.

Still need to give major props to the Leopard IIs for its proper trial by fire and surpassing all expectations. And continuing to be a thorn that refuses to die.

 

[WhiteNight]

Puck has a new video on the recent actions by Trump:

In short, he is negative:

• The threat of more sanctions after 50 days is not a sufficient deterrent for Putin to reconsider war aims. Sanctions have harmed Russia's war-making potential but had no effect in pressuring Russia to end the invasion.
• America has gone from supporting Ukraine with weapons to making money selling them. This is roughly the bare minimum Trump can do without screwing over domestic military industry.
• This is a signal of future policy. America's direct support for Ukraine has ended.

Puck makes good points, but I find the last a bit too pessimistic. Trump is balancing the interventionist, isolationist, and pro-Russia factions in his base. He could be (perhaps unintentionally) boiling the frog by going from minimal support to indirect support and later back to direct support. Trump is hard to predict, but his former fondness for Putin seems to be genuinely eroding. Also, American policy can change with every election, and I don't just mean the 2028 one. The GOP might get hammered in next year's midterms (as often happens to the president's party), in which case he'll have to negotiate policy with a Democratic Congress.

As for the sanctions, obviously the war is not going to end in the next 50 days, so the only question is whether Trump follows through or TACOs. If I had to guess, I'd predict some token actions but nothing like the heavy secondary sanctions being previously proposed.

 

[Snekposter]

Trump is hard to predict, but his former fondness for Putin seems to be genuinely eroding.

After that White House debacle Zelensky learned to bite his tongue and kiss Trump's ass to get what his country needs to survive, whereas Putin has consistently been... Putin.