Total War thread

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Been enjoying MATN's playthrough of Empire lately.
Best part is ALL OF THE THINGS HE DOESNT KNOW even if he sees himself as a very good TW player.
 
Monkey Shoulder said:
Been enjoying MATN's playthrough of Empire lately.
Best part is ALL OF THE THINGS HE DOESNT KNOW even if he sees himself as a very good TW player.
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It's painful watching him give away provinces and technology like it's nothing. In the game about Empires and competing with other European powers.

I still play Medieval 2 and I've gotten back into Rome 2 with the new Divide et Impera update.
 
HeyYou said:
It's painful watching him give away provinces and technology like it's nothing. In the game about Empires and competing with other European powers.

I still play Medieval 2 and I've gotten back into Rome 2 with the new Divide et Impera update.
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Looking forwards to when it bites him in the ass, or to see if he has some sort of plan to get around it.
Good to see Empire get some coverage anyway. Genuinely one of my favourite TW games, despite, or because of, all its flaws.
 
Monkey Shoulder said:
Looking forwards to when it bites him in the ass, or to see if he has some sort of plan to get around it.
Good to see Empire get some coverage anyway. Genuinely one of my favourite TW games, despite, or because of, all its flaws.
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I'm not really a fan of Empire, but it's such an interesting time period and it has so many cool ideas that I think it deserves a sequel. That would require Creative Assembly to get off their ass and add back in naval combat, though, so I'm not sure it's happening any time soon.
 
Empire's biggest problem is that it's a broken mess, especially on the battle side. Muskets were about as deadly as flashlights and even then I swear units kept aiming for the flanks which made lethality pathetically low and made the battles drag for so long. It made Rome 2's hoplite v hoplite engagements seem as fast and lethal as Rome 1 or Shogun 2's engagements by comparison. Units would also try to shoot through walls or on the flipside would refuse to shoot if the terrain wasn't completely flat. Entire formations would waste time completely repositioning if they were firing at a formation that wasn't 100% in front of them. Melee combat was even worse. Enemy AI was just flat out moronic, both in land battles and on the campaign. The braindead campaign AI ruins the campaign experience, really the only thing the AI was good at was declaring war on you for no apparent reason.

Napoleon and Fall of the Samurai are much better games if you're looking for line warfare but they just don't have the complexity of Empire, not to mention the variety you get from the 3 theatres of war that Empire has.
 
Pretty Boy Extremism said:
Empire's biggest problem is that it's a broken mess, especially on the battle side. Muskets were about as deadly as flashlights and even then I swear units kept aiming for the flanks which made lethality pathetically low and made the battles drag for so long. It made Rome 2's hoplite v hoplite engagements seem as fast and lethal as Rome 1 or Shogun 2's engagements by comparison. Units would also try to shoot through walls or on the flipside would refuse to shoot if the terrain wasn't completely flat. Entire formations would waste time completely repositioning if they were firing at a formation that wasn't 100% in front of them. Melee combat was even worse. Enemy AI was just flat out moronic, both in land battles and on the campaign. The braindead campaign AI ruins the campaign experience, really the only thing the AI was good at was declaring war on you for no apparent reason.

Napoleon and Fall of the Samurai are much better games if you're looking for line warfare but they just don't have the complexity of Empire, not to mention the variety you get from the 3 theatres of war that Empire has.
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God, I love the map size. The best part is the only "cut off" part is the New World. If you cheat army movement to be infinite, you can march guys from Paris to India entirely overland in a single turn. Scrolling is a bitch, but it can be done. Also, DarthMod helps a lot, although line battles did take a long time, historically speaking.

Fall is pretty damn good, especially (again) with DarthMod, but it doesn't quite have the drill or intensity of naval combat Empire did.
 
Snekposter said:
God, I love the map size. The best part is the only "cut off" part is the New World. If you cheat army movement to be infinite, you can march guys from Paris to India entirely overland in a single turn. Scrolling is a bitch, but it can be done. Also, DarthMod helps a lot, although line battles did take a long time, historically speaking.

Fall is pretty damn good, especially (again) with DarthMod, but it doesn't quite have the drill or intensity of naval combat Empire did.
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Well historically all battles took longer than what is depicted in the games, even in mods which slow down battles considerably like Europa Barbarorum for R1 and M2 or Divide et Impera for R2. The problem in Empire is that everything feels weak in land battles - guns feel limp, cavalry seems to posses the weight of a sheet of paper, cannons are somewhat ok but it depends on the cannon. If nothing else at least artillery is king of the battlefield as it should be at that time but that's just a small consolation.
 
Monkey Shoulder said:
Good to see Empire get some coverage anyway. Genuinely one of my favourite TW games, despite, or because of, all its flaws.
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I'm glad to see I'm not the only one that enjoys it. I've gone back to it after waiting for CA to get their shit together and launch Immortal Empire on Warhammer 3.
 
Pretty Boy Extremism said:
Well historically all battles took longer than what is depicted in the games, even in mods which slow down battles considerably like Europa Barbarorum for R1 and M2 or Divide et Impera for R2. The problem in Empire is that everything feels weak in land battles - guns feel limp, cavalry seems to posses the weight of a sheet of paper, cannons are somewhat ok but it depends on the cannon. If nothing else at least artillery is king of the battlefield as it should be at that time but that's just a small consolation.
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Fair. I mean, it is kinda hard to properly represent some of how combat actually was and have it feel "impactful" yet realistic. No great clashes of dudes with heavy armor and weapons, but an attritional line battle until one is depleted enough they get bayonet charged off the field of battle. Cavalry were unarmored, relying more on speed than weight to survive, so the epic lance charges were gone, especially once squares happened. Not to dismiss your point, but more along the lines of agreeing with it backwardly. Industrial war was boring as hell until the machine gun was invented.
 
Now that CA released Warhammer 3 what do you think they are going to do next? Outside DLCs for Warhammer and that fantasy three kingdoms game.

I see few possibilities.
A) Warhammer 4 I know they have deal to make three games, but If wh3 keeps making shekels why not extend deal.
B) 40k I saw it repeated so many times.
I think people who thinks CA will pull it off well are high on hopium.
We are talking about company that couldnt be bothered to make naval combat in like 10 years, And were hyping option of puting barriers, archer towers... During settlement defence as revolutionary new feature. I can't see them making mechanics required for 40k game.
C) another pseudohistorical title ala Troy, 3K
 
Radola Gajda said:
B) 40k I saw it repeated so many times.
I think people who thinks CA will pull it off well are high on hopium.
We are talking about company that couldnt be bothered to make naval combat in like 10 years, And were hyping option of puting barriers, archer towers... During settlement defence as revolutionary new feature. I can't see them making mechanics required for 40k game.
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For all CA would fuck it up this technically could be done. Each planet is a province, systems/sectors serve as regions (Holy Terra and Mars being one for example), and army movement can have various effects (warp and whatnot) to influence move distance and ambushes. Pretty much the 40k version of Star Wars: Empire at War. Of course this necessitates having some form of naval combat and there's little chance of that ever happening again.
 
Scale Smerch said:
For all CA would fuck it up this technically could be done. Each planet is a province, systems/sectors serve as regions (Holy Terra and Mars being one for example), and army movement can have various effects (warp and whatnot) to influence move distance and ambushes. Pretty much the 40k version of Star Wars: Empire at War. Of course this necessitates having some form of naval combat and there's little chance of that ever happening again.
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i think company of hero's would probably be better for a 40k game. Total war hasn't evolved passed its Medieval/Ancient style fighting. ETW and NTW never really represent warfare from that period well until mods like NTW 3 came out.
 
crows in guns said:
i think company of hero's would probably be better for a 40k game. Total war hasn't evolved passed its Medieval/Ancient style fighting. ETW and NTW never really represent warfare from that period well until mods like NTW 3 came out.
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Relic already had their shot with 3 Dawn of Wars and fucked up the last one royally. Would be interesting to see someone else take outside Dawn of War and Gladius.
 
CA might make a good 40k game but it couldn't be a Total War game. They would have to enforce some arbitrary limiting factor, like having it take place in a single system, and then it wouldn't make sense that so many races are present. If a bunch of Tyranids are in your system, shit's fucked. Better hope you have Ultramarines-level plot armor.
 
Ted_Breakfast said:
CA might make a good 40k game but it couldn't be a Total War game. They would have to enforce some arbitrary limiting factor, like having it take place in a single system, and then it wouldn't make sense that so many races are present. If a bunch of Tyranids are in your system, shit's fucked. Better hope you have Ultramarines-level plot armor.
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Yea and after Warhammer 3 you don't really want a narrative driven campaign from them, you then get a game that's not Total War.
 
Urbanmech said:
Yea and after Warhammer 3 you don't really want a narrative driven campaign from them, you then get a game that's not Total War.
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Idk, I like when you can choose between following a narrative, the more narratively loose objectives like in Rome 2, and just doing whatever you want. A decently crafted narrative campaign can be very entertaining.
 
crows in guns said:
i think company of hero's would probably be better for a 40k game. Total war hasn't evolved passed its Medieval/Ancient style fighting. ETW and NTW never really represent warfare from that period well until mods like NTW 3 came out.
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Men of War's engine would make for a spectacular 40k game I think. You don't even need to autistic ammo or item management it had, simply the "good-enough" physics engine and gold standard implementation of both vehicle and infantry units. It already handles hundreds of units on screen back in 2013 so no reason why they couldnt scale it up to a proper 40k stomp.
 
Monkey Shoulder said:
Idk, I like when you can choose between following a narrative, the more narratively loose objectives like in Rome 2, and just doing whatever you want. A decently crafted narrative campaign can be very entertaining.
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I would agree with you if that narrative allowed for a Total War game to be a Total War Game, which is not the case for Total Warhammer 3. The Campaign just doesn't promote going out and conquering, it does the exact opposite. What would have been better is if they had designed 4 different narrative campaigns and have 2 factions assigned to each narrative, that way you could have different playstyles and objectives. Like the Ursun Campaign could be assigned to Kislev and Daemons of Chaos, the kill everyone campaign aka Total War could go to Khorne and Ogres, and so on. But for now we are just stuck with mods and the main campaign, which is sad because its been 2 months now and they have yet just provided a simple way for people to just conquer the whole map without the Ursun BS.
 
Radola Gajda said:
A) Warhammer 4 I know they have deal to make three games, but If wh3 keeps making shekels why not extend deal.
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Personally I think it'll be Medieval 3, a relatively easy game to make compared to shit like Warhammer and probably quite a requested one at this point, and then another Warhammer game. More specifically I think they'll go to Age of Sigmar. Assuming they want to do DLC for TWW3 (and they definitely, definitely do), there's not really anything left to make a TWW4 out of.
As for a 40k Total War game, I personally hope not. The campaign could be decentish (although I'm more sceptical after the shitshow of TWW3) with planets and systems replacing settlements and provinces, but I really feel like they'd struggle to make the battle side of it work. Combat in 40k is supposed to work wildly differently to shit like the medieval style combat of TWW
 
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