War The West Again Learns That War Needs Industry - Biden and NATO leaders, fearing a war of attrition with Russia or China, will focus on rebuilding militaries and their supplies at coming summit

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The West Again Learns That War Needs Industry
The Wall Street Journal (archive.ph)
By Daniel Michaels
2023-07-07 07:39:00GMT

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Ukraine’s conflict with Russia has exposed huge shortfalls in Western defense-industry capacity and organization. Manu Brabo for The Wall Street Journal

Behind the deadly front lines where Ukrainian and Russian soldiers are locked in combat, a less-noticed life-or-death battle is raging to keep troops supplied with arms and ammunition. The side that loses that fight is the one that will lose the war. It is a lesson Washington is relearning.

Russia’s invasion of Ukraine has exposed huge shortfalls in Western defense-industry capacity and organization. The U.S. and its allies aren’t prepared to fight a protracted war in the Pacific, and would struggle with a long European conflict.

As Adm. Rob Bauer, a top military officer at the North Atlantic Treaty Organization, puts it: “Every war, after about five or six days, becomes about logistics.”

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NATO’s Adm. Rob Bauer, right, says the defense industry needs more private-sector support. Photo: olivier hoslet/Shutterstock

If the U.S. clashed head-on with Russia or China, stocks of precision weaponry could be used up in hours or days. Other vital supplies would run out soon after.

Many governments are starting to respond. The U.S. is increasing arms production after decades of focus on terrorism and homeland security. French President Emmanuel Macron has pledged a “war economy” to boost military supplies. German Chancellor Olaf Scholz has shed Berlin’s longstanding disdain for military spending.

It is a pivot with echoes of the last century, when the U.S. repeatedly swung its economy to fight wars and face down enemies. Woodrow Wilson nationalized America’s railroads in 1917, and in 1942 Detroit lurched from making cars to churning out tanks and bombers. The Cold War spawned the military-industrial complex.

Nobody’s ready to test those extremes today. To handle newly aggressive adversaries without commandeering industries or exploding national budgets, Washington and its allies will need to try fresh approaches to developing, buying and maintaining military supplies.

“The defense-industrial base that served us after World War II and helped us prevail in the Cold War isn’t the one that is going to help us prevail against China,” says Joseph Votel, a retired four-star Army general who led Special Operations Command and now heads Business Executives for National Security, a nonprofit started in 1982 to bring private-sector know-how to the Pentagon.

The first step will be spending more on defense across the West. In 2014, after Russia seized Crimea from Ukraine and fomented rebellion in the country’s east, NATO members pledged to spend at least 2% of their gross domestic product on defense by 2024.

Only the U.S. and a handful of other members do that so far, though war in Ukraine may finally have broken the logjam. Around half of NATO’s 31 members could hit 2% next year, alliance diplomats say.

Ambitions are increasing, too. When NATO leaders meet in Lithuania next week for their annual summit, they expect to cement 2% of GDP as the spending minimum, not an aspiration. Over the past year, NATO and the European Union have also assumed new roles coordinating and consolidating arms procurement to boost efficiency and accelerate rearmament.

But more is needed, say Votel and his colleagues, starting with a new postindustrial mind-set. Many see a model in how Ukraine is drawing expertise from across society to develop defensive systems that bridge advanced digital savvy and grease-covered Soviet hardware.

First, say advocates of a new approach, the Pentagon should acknowledge it no longer owns the cutting edge of technology—even though it once launched transformative innovations, such as the internet and GPS.

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Washington and its allies need to try fresh approaches to developing, buying and maintaining military supplies. Photo: valda kalnina/Shutterstock
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The military needs huge quantities of some items, such as artillery shells and rifles. Photo: Vadim Ghirda/Associated Press

“Our nation leads in many emerging technologies relevant to defense and security—from artificial intelligence and directed energy to quantum information technology and beyond,” a panel of former top Defense Department officials said in a recent report for the Atlantic Council, a Washington think tank. “But the DoD struggles to identify, adopt, integrate and field these technologies into military applications.”

The commission, led by former Defense Secretary Mark Esper, offered 10 recommendations that ranged from encouraging tech companies to do business with the Pentagon to modernizing its budgeting documents.

Others say that rather than conceiving multidecade moonshots, as in the Cold War, the Pentagon should learn to quickly draw on existing innovations, as smaller allies have done, and Ukraine is doing.

“The Defense Department set itself up to export technology,” says James “Hondo” Geurts, a former assistant secretary of the Navy and Air Force officer with extensive acquisitions experience. “Now it needs to become a smart importer of technology.”

On the Florida panhandle, a gaggle of military brainstorming centers are working to test what is possible outside a war zone. Defensewerx, a nonprofit organization closely tied to the Pentagon, links the defense establishment with small businesses and academia, working to bring innovation and a disrupter mentality to arms development and contracting.

A challenge, say skeptics, is that projects launched in a military “Monster Garage” often founder at industrial scale.

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Defense is massively expensive, and not just for cutting-edge equipment. Photo: Mustafa Yalcin/Anadolu Agency/Getty Images

Defense planners must also get more entrepreneurial, say advocates of change—and some are already. NATO’s Bauer recently flew to the Pacific coast in Los Angeles, not for naval maneuvers but to address a finance-oriented conference.

“We need private investors to support the defense industry,” the Dutch officer told the Milken Institute’s global gathering in May.

Defense is massively expensive, and not just Top Gun equipment such as F-35 jet fighters costing around $100 million apiece. The Navy has estimated that a 20-year modernization of four major shipyards, which maintain aircraft carriers and nuclear submarines and average a century old, will cost $21 billion—and a senior Government Accountability Office official last year called those estimates “wildly off point.”

The protracted refurbishment limits repair capacity, leaving warships at pier awaiting work and reducing America’s active fleet available for threat response. Multibillion-dollar assets idly aging in saltwater cost taxpayers, warn critics.

Rather than drag out shipyard renovations over two decades, says Sam Cole, a finance-sector professional who serves on the BENS board under Votel, it would make more sense to get the work done quickly so the yards are fully functional sooner.

The Pentagon could struggle to fund all that, given government budgeting rules, Cole acknowledged. Instead, it could take a more private-sector approach to financing by turning to debt markets, raising around $50 billion and completing the work in about four years.

“Being able to tap capital markets would enable you to put the project on steroids,” says Cole.

Funding defense outside the Pentagon’s budget would break tradition, but advocates note that other parts of the government already do it. The Commerce and Agriculture departments are leveraging capital markets to finance investments in necessities from microchips to fertilizer.

Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin last December took a step in that direction, launching the Office of Strategic Capital, an in-house tech incubator empowered to partner with private financiers. The Pentagon’s Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency, or Darpa, has gained legendary status for its role in helping fund Silicon Valley’s rise, but its financial firepower is limited.

The OSC is unusual for the Pentagon because it can employ loans, guarantees and other financial tools not typically used by the U.S. military, which relies mainly on contracts and grants. It aims to help startups grow and work with the Pentagon, and to nurture new technologies that may support defense. At its launch, officials noted that while the Defense Department has rich programs to foster innovation, Pentagon contracting and legal rules pose daunting hurdles for startups.

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The U.S. Navy has estimated that a 20-year modernization of four major shipyards will cost $21 billion. Photo: Spencer Platt/Getty Images

In rebuilding military industries, small business also needs attention. Defense giants once tapped supply chains that extended to thousands of workshops supplying basic components. Industry consolidation, globalization and shrinking demand after the Cold War eroded that base. Today, subcontractors are as likely to be independent software developers as metal-bashers, but they face similar headaches with business fundamentals such as financing research and development.

Defense giants handling massive arms projects generally work on a cost basis, meaning they can usually hand the Pentagon a bill for their R&D spending, says Frank Finelli, another finance professional on the BENS board. But almost all midsize companies in the defense industry are subcontractors, so are unable to pass along development costs.

“You’re asking me to invest my own money in R&D” for the Pentagon, Finelli says he hears from smaller companies. The U.S., the world’s financial-markets leader, should be able to find a solution, he says. “This is about having access to financial agility at scale.”

Agility is increasingly vital in manufacturing, too. The F-35, America’s newest jet fighter, is a marvel of networked computers that can hover and fly supersonic. But much of it is still built by hand in a Texas factory where each plane steps along an assembly line from one production station to the next, notes Stacie Pettyjohn, director of the defense program at the Center for a New American Security.

The Pentagon’s next generation of equipment will need to rely on commercial industries’ advances in production technologies, from 3-D printing to factory automation, says Pettyjohn. “New manufacturing systems for new defense systems will be critical.”

Equally ripe for an overhaul is how the Pentagon turns ideas into equipment. The military needs eye-popping quantities of some items, such as artillery shells and rifles, but a lot of equipment is needed in versions customized for specific tasks, which can vary widely across services and in elite units such as special forces.

How to combine mass production and variety has long plagued defense planners. The F-35 was envisioned 30 years ago as a single low-cost plane with different options for the Air Force, Navy and Marines. But in traditional fashion, costs and complexity ballooned as delays mounted.

“The Defense Department has a poor track record in rapid development and production,” says Pettyjohn. “They’ve shot for the moon on everything.”
 
Yes, he is a rando on the internet. It's not my fault you are retarded and you believe everything random people say on the internet. Maybe you should go kill yourself because you are clearly too stupid to live and you are just an oxygen thief,
Here's some friendly advice for you.
1683751934813486.gif
 
My question is, what was wrong with the M4 and 5.56? Why did it need replacing?
The problem the Army has had with the M4 and 5.56 is that they were having long range fire-fights in Afghanistan/Iraq where the M4 and 5.56 were proving to be too short ranged to effectively reach out and hit the opposing forces.

Now, the rational response to this problem would be "Okay, let's switch up our organization of infantry squads a bit so that one or two guys are designated marksmen equipped with a scoped M14/M1A rifle, and whenever we encounter forces that are bit out of range we can use those guys to engage and pin the enemy down while we deploy the mortars or call in air/artillery strikes."

The Current Year™️ Military Brass response to this problem is "Let's spend several hundred million dollars to develop an entirely brand new cartridge that's heavier and longer ranged than 5.56 but not quite as heavy or large as 7.62, as well as a new rifle to fire it from, and then spend several hundred million more to train and equip every single infantryman with it and replace all of those M4s/M16s."
 
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Here's some friendly advice for you.
View attachment 5203809
How about you do it first then let me know how it goes and I will kill myself later on faggot.

Also the faggots in this thread are just proving that the people who mark posts as dumb MATI or autistic are the ones that dumb MATI and autistic. Imagine being such a weak faggot loser that you can handle differing opinions on the internet so you have to take time out of your day to downvote posts like a Reddit tier faggot. LOLOLOLOLOLOL
 
The problem the Army has had with the M4 and 5.56 is that they were having long range fire-fights in Afghanistan/Iraq where the M4 and 5.56 were proving to be too short ranged to effectively reach out and hit the opposing forces.

Now, the rational response to this problem would be "Okay, let's switch up our organization of infantry squads a bit so that one or two guys are designated marksmen equipped with a scoped M14/M1A rifle, and whenever we encounter forces that are bit out of range we can use those guys to engage and pin the enemy down while we deploy the mortars or call in air/artillery strikes."

The Current Year™️ Military Brass response to this problem is "Let's spend several hundred million dollars to develop an entirely brand new cartridge that's heavier and longer ranged than 5.56 but not quite as heavy or large as 7.62, as well as a new rifle to fire it from, and then spend several hundred million more to train and equip every single infantryman with it and replace all of those M4s/M16s."
They've been trying since FORCE XXI and the Future Warrior Project to get a 'one weapon for everything' in through the gate. The OICWS and the XM12 (IIRC) were nightmares of too many moving parts.

Now that there was a range issue, which could be solved just like you said, they saw their perfect chance to try to push through another rifle.

I noticed it didn't go through as much testing as the M16A2, the M4, or anything else.

It was kind of startling how fast it went through, and how the ammunition issues were quickly swept under the rug, mainly because 5-10 million rounds sounds like a lot of the people in charge, who are unable to do napkin math.
 
Somebody paid big bucks to get the M-16 design through and it ended up getting a lot of guys killed, especially because they didn't send cleaning kits with them. AR fags might scream that AKs are "commie trash" but the Kalashnikov has a reputation for reliability for a reason.

Granted, they did correct a lot of the issues it had but they never should have had those kinds of problems in the first place. All this talk about the next-gen super-Sig rifles makes me skeptical of them. It wouldn't be the first time billions of dollars were dumped on a program whose brainchild ended up in a desert boneyard.
The M16 (aka the military version of the existing AR-15) was deliberately sabotaged by Army Ordnance, who (correctly as it turned out) feared being abolished if the private market could make a better rifle than they could. Not the first time Army higher-ups have gotten a lot of good men killed from their own selfishness (don't look into the WW2 bomber mafia if you've got heart or blood pressure problems) and it won't be the last.
There were reports of it not putting down jihadis in Afghanistan hard enough but a lot of them were probably high on opium at the time.
Afghanistan, Mogadishu, ISIS, Africa... sufficiently determined and/or drugged infantrymen have proven highly resistant to gunfire through history. The only reliable way to stop them is with massive internal damage since they're resistant or immune to shock from wounding and blood loss takes too long, especially in close quarters. We should have already known about what fighting Muslims would be like since the juramentados in the Philippines had given us no end of trouble.
They've been trying since FORCE XXI and the Future Warrior Project to get a 'one weapon for everything' in through the gate. The OICWS and the XM12 (IIRC) were nightmares of too many moving parts.

Now that there was a range issue, which could be solved just like you said, they saw their perfect chance to try to push through another rifle.

I noticed it didn't go through as much testing as the M16A2, the M4, or anything else.

It was kind of startling how fast it went through, and how the ammunition issues were quickly swept under the rug, mainly because 5-10 million rounds sounds like a lot of the people in charge, who are unable to do napkin math.
The worst part is when you look into the actual round and its... a 7.62 NATO that's been necked down to 6.8, which is something that's been frequently done by wildcatters, however the overall dimensions of the round are juust enough that it qualifies as a completely different round from 7.62 NATO, no doubt so the military (and SIG) can start begging Congress to pay them for all new rifles instead of just buying a bunch of 6.8mm barrels for their existing weapons.
 
What's funny about the sped here is that it wasn't too horribly long ago we actually had Stoltenberg saying that NATO's war stockpiles are facing depletion just back in February.
 
Yes, he is a rando on the internet. It's not my fault you are retarded and you believe everything random people say on the internet. Maybe you should go kill yourself because you are clearly too stupid to live and you are just an oxygen thief,
You are not taking my advice.
 
I noticed it didn't go through as much testing as the M16A2, the M4, or anything else.

It was kind of startling how fast it went through, and how the ammunition issues were quickly swept under the rug, mainly because 5-10 million rounds sounds like a lot of the people in charge, who are unable to do napkin math.
The tinfoil hat explanation that I've heard for them wanting the new/proprietary cartridge and rifle is because they were envisioning the future conflicts the US Army engages in to be on domestic soil against American citizens, and having the new cartridge would mean ammo stockpiles couldn't be captured and used by any would-be rebel forces (I think these same people were also saying the 6.8mm round can beat the most commonly used civilian body armor plates).
The M16 (aka the military version of the existing AR-15) was deliberately sabotaged by Army Ordnance, who (correctly as it turned out) feared being abolished if the private market could make a better rifle than they could. Not the first time Army higher-ups have gotten a lot of good men killed from their own selfishness (don't look into the WW2 bomber mafia if you've got heart or blood pressure problems) and it won't be the last.
WW2? Try since the American Civil War, when the US Army absolutely refused to adopt or use the 1860 Henry repeating lever action, even though it was superior in every aspect to the muzzleloaders that were standard issue.
 
My question is, what was wrong with the M4 and 5.56? Why did it need replacing?
So during WWI/II we had 30-06. Then thanks to improvements in powder it got replaced by 308, which was set as nato standard.

When korea and vietnam happened it turned out tiny asian men where getting knocked on their asses at the same time some dude was showing them the AR-10 in 308 and AR-15 in 223 aka 556 nato.

223 was small lighter you could carry more ammo and it seems most fights are not at a great distance and the whole "suppressive fire" meme.

The 308 is still used when you need to reach out and touch someone like say a mountain pass. Also concern that modern body armor plus distance means its not as effect.

of course we all know that this contract is worth billions

And as other have pointed out 30 years of war with no interest in restocking put us in this shitty position but then again would anyone really believe we d need it? what were we gonna do go fight the mexicans with 155 shells
 
WW2? Try since the American Civil War, when the US Army absolutely refused to adopt or use the 1860 Henry repeating lever action, even though it was superior in every aspect to the muzzleloaders that were standard issue.
That... actually had some justification. They were expensive as hell, absolutely ate ammunition, and required a complete rewrite of doctrine, training, and combat methods, and we had enough problems with all of that already since we were trying to build an entire modern military almost entirely from scratch. We also needed guns in hands since we had more volunteers than we did guns early on, and when you're issuing muskets due to a lack of rifles adding yet another weapon and its ammunition needs is asking for trouble. Later on we absolutely did use them a ton, especially with the Western veterans, but even post-war a single-shot breechloader was the standard arm for militaries for various reasons until the Lebel rifle began forcing a change that the Mauser system finally made easy.
 
So during WWI/II we had 30-06. Then thanks to improvements in powder it got replaced by 308, which was set as nato standard.

When korea and vietnam happened it turned out tiny asian men where getting knocked on their asses at the same time some dude was showing them the AR-10 in 308 and AR-15 in 223 aka 556 nato.
The best alternate timeline is where instead of adopting the M14, the US adopted the AR-10.

Second best alternate timeline is where instead of adopting the M14, the US adopted the FAL, which the Belgians had already given us the technical package for free.

Third best alternate timeline is where instead of adopting the M14, the US adopted the FAL, but we also didn't force 7.62 NATO on everyone and so it wound up being chambered in .280 British like it was originally supposed to. Which means that NATO from the beginning would have a true, intermediate cartridged assault rifle and an equal to the Soviet AK. It also means that the Brits could keep developing EM-2.
em-2.jpg
 
Second best alternate timeline is where instead of adopting the M14, the US adopted the FAL, which the Belgians had already given us the technical package for free.
I know its en vogue to shit on the M14 but the FAL really did have issues. It was heavier, had more moving parts, and in overall testing had displayed a higher malfunction rate than the M14. Hell, when it came time to implement the changes they did as a result of the arctic tests (where opening the gas port to solve the sluggishness caused a bunch of violent extractions), everything FN sent over had to be converted from metric measurements to Imperial and the European materials and nomenclature substituted for American ones.
http://www.cruffler.com/historic-april01.html
It was a very European design that had a lot of nifty features when we just wanted something simple, and we wanted it now on account of it being 1957.

As to the AR-10, it was definitely a superior weapon to both but it also showed up far too late in testing and still needed some work done. Its cost at the time also relegated it to specialist troops instead of general military sales. The Sudanese-pattern AR-10's ran $225 to come with a cleaning kit and four mags, and the M14 ended up being $104. Considering that's a difference of 121 bucks I'm sure you can fit four mags, a cleaning kit, some spare parts, and even ammo in there to make up the difference.
 
The War on Terror was weird, as the American industry to support the war wasn't fired up, but instead old Cold War stocks (depleted due to Desert Storm, Bosnia, and other conflicts as well as age and degradation) were burned through without being replaced.

But then, you know, you think you're right even though you have no idea why the idea to use pre-1988 5.56mm ammunition in 2010 was the dumbest fucking thing they could have done.
The GWOT was essentially a long policing action after 2004 onward with a few large battles over the remaining 15 year period. If let the US procurement types get away with not replacing ANYTHING.
It's always NUT UH ITS NOT POSSIBLE FOR THE US TO RUN OUT OF STUFF with these people. Ignore the fact the US already has canceled multiple training missions over the past year because a lack of munitions prevents the unit from doing anything but twiddle their thumbs: Article or the fact that the US is astoundingly far behind the in their production for orders from allied nations. Some of these outstanding orders from 2015 haven't even started production almost 8 years later.

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This chart is from the beginning of the year and almost certainly its well out of date after 7 months of heavy fighting. This is the timeframe it would take in terms of production just to get back to pre-war levels of stock for the US. Everyone can keep their head in the sky delusionally if they want, but the defense industry currently is panicking for good reason, the past 50 years of heavy industry outsourcing and closure of petrochemical companies is coming home to roost, they think they can change this with some 'WW2 turn around" but this is fantasty, all of the heavy industry is rusted away ruins like the kind you see in Detroit.
Yep, US arms procurement and stockpiles went to absolute SHIT after 1993 and Bill's"leave dividend "

The US military basically lost 10-15 years or procurement and weapon system replacements and upgrades.
The Next Generation Has Arrived (Archive)





What is your view as a infantry man, on the replacement for the M16A4, which had a single stage trigger and picatinny rails and a fixed buttstock for this thing that has a two stage trigger and folding stock and MLOKs, which has a bit of a longer learning curve to get right.
Most everything you mentioned has nothing to do with teaching someone to shoot well. Mlok is just an attachment method for accessories that's better and lighter than picatinny rails. Hell, the M16a4 was only used by the USMC who've switched to an overpriced German rifle because H&K bribed.... I mean HIRED a few ex USMC officers to bullshit active duty USMC officers.

A folding stock makes the rifle easier to handle in an IFV or APC. The M4 series has had a telescoping stock since day 1.
Somebody paid big bucks to get the M-16 design through and it ended up getting a lot of guys killed, especially because they didn't send cleaning kits with them. AR fags might scream that AKs are "commie trash" but the Kalashnikov has a reputation for reliability for a reason.

Granted, they did correct a lot of the issues it had but they never should have had those kinds of problems in the first place. All this talk about the next-gen super-Sig rifles makes me skeptical of them. It wouldn't be the first time billions of dollars were dumped on a program whose brainchild ended up in a desert boneyard.
Nope, the Army retardedly deleted the original M16s chrome bolt face and chamber and switched to a different gunpowder that was dirtier. Oh and they DIDN'T ISSUE CLEANING KITS with the rifles. The M16A1 fixed essentially all of the issues, ~3 years after the M16 came along.

AK is fine enough but it too can jam or malfunction if abused enough.
There was the M14 before it.

Which was only semi auto and never made full auto.

The Italians figured out a way to make it full auto.
M-14 was originally full auto but it was uncontrollable, just like the Italian B-59
With all this talk of ammo, I think I better buy some before we have more shortages lol


There is some *small* hope, things like the F-15 being put back into production, though that's just a small part. We need more companies capable of making their own shit and not just mega corps

I've seen reviews of the Sig rifle and my verdict is... it's heavy. Sure it's a 7mm rifle that has less recoil than 308 and can punch thru modern body armor, sure... but it means less rounds per person.

It depends on the recoil reduction mechanism, which the M14 didn't have, combined with its grip that made it move up
The F-15EX is just an upgraded F-15E, nothing special there.

The Sig M7 or whatever they're calling it is a chubby rifle that shoots a rough ballistic and auditory equivalent of a .300 Win mag. Allegedly it's nearly uncontrollable without a suppressor and it's Very loud unsuppressed as well.

It's also a roided out SIG MCX which has been around for about a decade now and has a reputation as a good piston driven rifle that's not just an AR-15 with a piston slapped on top.
There were reports of it not putting down jihadis in Afghanistan hard enough but a lot of them were probably high on opium at the time. Probably nonsense but anything to justify defense contractors trying to sell a solution looking for a problem. Granted the AR and derivatives have that direct impingement system that gets blamed for malfunctions but that was mostly in the early Vietnam days and they allegedly used the wrong type of powder for the ammunition.

Whatever Current Year military is doing now, I don't think winning wars is a priority. Dumping all of our mothballed mid-20th century gear on a certain shithole country however is. That and promoting gender weirdos to the brass to humiliate the actual fighting men.

To answer your edited post, the woketards likely want to control the police and army themselves in order to have a weapon to use against dissidents in their utopian society. No wonder they seem so bent on converting the upper crust. It sure ain't convincing the alphas who usually die in wars to sign up for it.
The Mk262 and M855A1 rounds are MUCH better at stopping humans than the older 5.56 rounds.
As to the AR-10, it was definitely a superior weapon to both but it also showed up far too late in testing and still needed some work done. Its cost at the time also relegated it to specialist troops instead of general military sales. The Sudanese-pattern AR-10's ran $225 to come with a cleaning kit and four mags, and the M14 ended up being $104. Considering that's a difference of 121 bucks I'm sure you can fit four mags, a cleaning kit, some spare parts, and even ammo in there to make up the difference.
I still find it funny that SUDAN of all places was buying essentially one of the most Gucci rifles on Earth in the late 1950s for it's Army. Whoever ran that procurement contract really gave a shit.
 
Nope, the Army retardedly deleted the original M16s chrome bolt face and chamber and switched to a different gunpowder that was dirtier. Oh and they DIDN'T ISSUE CLEANING KITS with the rifles. The M16A1 fixed essentially all of the issues, ~3 years after the M16 came along.
@Jet Fuel Johnny has unsurprisingly ranted about this exact situation before. TL;DR the Army had massive powder stockpiles left over from WW2 that it decided to use on the M16's ammo, while forgetting that the weapon was designed for more modern, cooler-burning powders. Cue mass pitting and wear not rectified until the 1980s when the military recycled and reloaded millions of rounds of ammunition with newer powders.

And yes, he was involved in getting all the rounds in Europe catalogued and shipped back to the USA for remanufacture and then handling the influx of replacement ammo.
 
Europoors really got to fuck up everything with their doodoo.

Also iirc the H&K Twitter went woke a while back.
Indeed. Its hilarious to look at the seething from Leopard fanboys about the Army picking the Abrams and then look at the facts of the matter. Rheinmetall was late on delivery for testing and then whined about us going ahead with testing despite that, submitted two hulls and three turrets instead of one complete prototype, and the whole thing had near-equivalent performance and was projected to cost $56,000 more, which adds up fast when you're placing orders by the thousand. That is, in fact, a cost difference of fifty-six million dollars for a thousand Leo 2AVs versus a thousand M1s, which is quite a sum even for the United States.
 
The tinfoil hat explanation that I've heard for them wanting the new/proprietary cartridge and rifle is because they were envisioning the future conflicts the US Army engages in to be on domestic soil against American citizens, and having the new cartridge would mean ammo stockpiles couldn't be captured and used by any would-be rebel forces (I think these same people were also saying the 6.8mm round can beat the most commonly used civilian body armor plates).
The Obama administration had every federal agency buying all of the ammunition they could get their hands on. Plus it got leaked out the ATF training on shooting paper targets that like your average white American John and Jane Doe. So the fear of the U.S. Govt going to war against the American people isn't unfounded. Plus by getting it out of the hands of the American public is a way to prevent from thoroughly and destructively playtesting the shit out of the rifles and ammunition. Which if there's a problem and they find it that information will spread almost instantly.
WW2? Try since the American Civil War, when the US Army absolutely refused to adopt or use the 1860 Henry repeating lever action, even though it was superior in every aspect to the muzzleloaders that were standard issue.
Other detail not mentioned is the metallic cartridges is still newish tech and not easy for mass manufacturing.
 
Yes, he is a rando on the internet. It's not my fault you are retarded and you believe everything random people say on the internet. Maybe you should go kill yourself because you are clearly too stupid to live and you are just an oxygen thief,
Zoom, enhance:
flipper - Copy.png

How about you do it first then let me know how it goes and I will kill myself later on faggot.

Also the faggots in this thread are just proving that the people who mark posts as dumb MATI or autistic are the ones that dumb MATI and autistic. Imagine being such a weak faggot loser that you can handle differing opinions on the internet so you have to take time out of your day to downvote posts like a Reddit tier faggot. LOLOLOLOLOLOL
No, people who are rating you MATI are doing so because you're sperging the fuck out. People are rating you dumb and autistic because you ran headfirst into an established community with all of the grace and eloquence of Chris Chan stumbling into his mother's bedroom with his dick in his hand.

Stop being a retard and lurk more. Genuinely.
 
L;DR the Army had massive powder stockpiles left over from WW2 that it decided to use on the M16's ammo, while forgetting that the weapon was designed for more modern, cooler-burning powders. Cue mass pitting and wear not rectified until the 1980s when the military recycled and reloaded millions of rounds of ammunition with newer powders.

And yes, he was involved in getting all the rounds in Europe catalogued and shipped back to the USA for remanufacture and then handling the influx of replacement ammo.
I was just about to go onto this rant.

Fucking thousands dead over fucking POWDER!

Another funny thing, is that the chrome bolt ones worked all right, and those were the ones TRADOC and Procurement would use for testing.

FORCE XXI did something WAAAAAY different that pissed off a lot of the corporations and is why Clinton shut it down in 1993.

They gave the weapons and equipment to a wide variety of MOS's, and had them do their missions at Fort Hood with the gear to see how long it lasted. Outside of the testing. They just said "Do your normal job, do your daily shit" and you'd turn it in when you went off duty. Guess how long all of these hot shit space age bullshit worked!

(Hint: Not long)

Wanna know something funny?

Want to know what happened to a couple thousand M16A1s in Europe when the drawdown happened?

We took them out to Graf and ran them over with a fucking bulldozer.

YOUR TAX DOLLARS AT WORK!
 
I can fully get trying to get rid of old ammo that will expire.

But not replacing it with new one is just peak madness.

Even a dumdum like me can figure out JIT is bad for stuff like ammo, food, medical supplies, non perishable goods, infrastructure stuff... and the people in charge should be, but not, smarter than me.
 
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