Star Trek - Space: The Final Frontier

[Privilege Power Hour]

I saw a commercial for that new Star Trek cartoon on tv and it hit me that Star Trek isn't a special cult phenomenon anymore.

It's just more fodder for the content machine.

Like, who the fuck is that even supposed to be appealing to? Stop greenlighting shit just because you can!

I think I said this earlier in the thread but we're clearly at the quantity over quality stage now, partly because of the need to give you as much as possible to watch on any given streaming service that a ton of trash just gets churned out (anybody else remember when the very first Netflix originals were released and they were well reviewed and called the future of TV?). The other part is that every IP is really only useful nowadays if it can be a content farm. Any form of entertainment is disposable and meant for you to consoom and move on. Sure you can enjoy or even love it, but probably not over and over again, and definitely not 50 years from now like you can with many TOS episodes. But that's okay. As long as you watch once because your brain has been permanently wired to binge watch show after show the suits have gotten what they need. And once you're done with Star Trek: Prodigy, there's plenty more to binge watch in the Star Trek universe! Have you watched all of Discovery? Lower Decks? Season two of Picard soon! And we've got Strange New Worlds coming in the future! Watched all of that? We've got plenty more from all your favorite IP's right here! Rewatch a show? What's that?

 

[Great President of McHell]

I think I said this earlier in the thread but we're clearly at the quantity over quality stage now, partly because of the need to give you as much as possible to watch on any given streaming service that a ton of trash just gets churned out (anybody else remember when the very first Netflix originals were released and they were well reviewed and called the future of TV?). The other part is that every IP is really only useful nowadays if it can be a content farm. Any form of entertainment is disposable and meant for you to consoom and move on. Sure you can enjoy or even love it, but probably not over and over again, and definitely not 50 years from now like you can with many TOS episodes. But that's okay. As long as you watch once because your brain has been permanently wired to binge watch show after show the suits have gotten what they need. And once you're done with Star Trek: Prodigy, there's plenty more to binge watch in the Star Trek universe! Have you watched all of Discovery? Lower Decks? Season two of Picard soon! And we've got Strange New Worlds coming in the future! Watched all of that? We've got plenty more from all your favorite IP's right here! Rewatch a show? What's that?

Stop thinking about the product, just consoom product then get excited for next product.

 

[UnKillFill]

To be clear, I'm not saying that this would have been a good idea at all... In fact, it would have probably been awful... but it would have also been funny as hell if Kirk's baby mama in Wrath of Khan was Janice Lester. (The implication being that Captain Kirk fucked himself offscreen during the bodyswap "series finale" episode in order to get his son.) You don't have to like it, but I bet that at least some of you are snickering about it along with me. XD

 

[HarryHowler]

I saw a commercial for that new Star Trek cartoon on tv and it hit me that Star Trek isn't a special cult phenomenon anymore.

The franchise has always been kind of weird in that regard. Yes, it's always been seen as something cultish and geeky, but in the TOS movie era and even much of the Berman era up until around the release of Insurrection, it had the kind of merchandising empire that you'd expect from any of the other major pop culture franchises around at the time. And not just in hobbyist stores either, I remember the franchise having its own dedicated section in my local Toys R Us until well into the runs of DS9 and Voyager; you don't get that kind of presence without at least some mainstream popularity.

Hell, I even vaguely recall there being talk around the time of First Contact's release that Berman was looking into an animated series with the TNG cast in order to pull in younger viewers, but abandoned the idea because it would have been too expensive to produce.

 

[Flexo]

Hell, I even vaguely recall there being talk around the time of First Contact's release that Berman was looking into an animated series with the TNG cast in order to pull in younger viewers, but abandoned the idea because it would have been too expensive to produce.

Wait, that wasn't Gargoyles?

 

[Captain Syrup]

that mousy lieutenant turning into a cackling villainess who encourages Khan to murder her former crewmates as violently as possible would have been stretching it a bit.

MCGIVERS: This dick is good!
KHAN: This starship is good!

 

[Exceptionally Exceptional]

Watching TOS and in this episode the crew of the Enterprise get infected with some disease and they need to go down to a planet to get a substance to cure it. The substance is called Ryetalyn.
Ryetalyn
Ritalin

The crew of the Enterprise was infected with fucking autism!

 

[Tasty Tatty]

It's really not that hard to have a good ST show that actually sells and people want to watch. ST already did it five times. Instead of having two or three mediocre shows, invest all that money on one single product and focus on making it as good as TOS or TNG.

I already gave you my pitch: Starfleet Academy. Get a bunch of recently graduated cadets about to start their first mission for the first season and put Barclay as their (initially reluctant) supervisor. Make it a simple 10-episode mission to help us to know the characters and end the season with them returning earth for their evaluation.

Also, get a few known characters to show up as guests actors once in a while. As this show is based on earth and starfleet, it makes sense some became teachers or admirals. We never really got to know what happened to the Voyager crew once they came back and I am very, very sure nobody wanted to see Seven become a murderer, but rather see how she adapted to her new life instead. Just imagine what kind of stories we could have:

Seven is now happily married with children, but still kept her very peculiar borgish personality and she's the leading scientist of borg investigations.

Beverly has remarried and she's happy working as a Medical supervisor for Starfleet.

Geordi is known as one of the most important engineers of Starfleet and he gets occasionally invited for lectures by the Academy.

Picard finally retired and he's still dealing with not being on space anymore. B -4 is his adoptive son and he's becoming more like Data, but with his own personality.

Will is still a captain, of course.

Worf is a captain.

Taht's just top of my head.

You can in fact add politics here without being preachy. The real problem is that these people can't write to save their lives.

 

[Captain Syrup]

I already gave you my pitch: Starfleet Academy.

They want to have their cake and eat it. Cadets saving the galaxy.

Remember "Valiant"? What if those supercilious kiddywinks had a happy ending? Makes me sick.

 

[RomanesEuntDomus]

It's really not that hard to have a good ST show that actually sells and people want to watch. ST already did it five times. Instead of having two or three mediocre shows, invest all that money on one single product and focus on making it as good as TOS or TNG.

I already gave you my pitch: Starfleet Academy. Get a bunch of recently graduated cadets about to start their first mission for the first season and put Barclay as their (initially reluctant) supervisor. Make it a simple 10-episode mission to help us to know the characters and end the season with them returning earth for their evaluation.

Also, get a few known characters to show up as guests actors once in a while. As this show is based on earth and starfleet, it makes sense some became teachers or admirals. We never really got to know what happened to the Voyager crew once they came back and I am very, very sure nobody wanted to see Seven become a murderer, but rather see how she adapted to her new life instead. Just imagine what kind of stories we could have:

Seven is now happily married with children, but still kept her very peculiar borgish personality and she's the leading scientist of borg investigations.

Beverly has remarried and she's happy working as a Medical supervisor for Starfleet.

Geordi is known as one of the most important engineers of Starfleet and he gets occasionally invited for lectures by the Academy.

Picard finally retired and he's still dealing with not being on space anymore. B -4 is his adoptive son and he's becoming more like Data, but with his own personality.

Will is still a captain, of course.

Worf is a captain.

Taht's just top of my head.

You can in fact add politics here without being preachy. The real problem is that these people can't write to save their lives.

Having UGH MEN be successul and happy examples to look up to? In IT'S CURRENT YEAR?
Insert Constanza meme here.

Nah, all joking aside, it's really not hard to make a successful show in a beloved franchise:
Just make something new that gives fans something new, add a little twist to it so it stands out (and really, how fucking hard is that when you've got decades to ponder and a shitton of inspiration from other shows, movies, books and current topics?) and then show respect to the old fans and their beloved characters.

Why is it so hard to do this? Trick question. The people making Star Trek, Star Wars, etc. never even want to do this. They are parasites that infect a franchise with their vile politics, toxic views and repulsive rhetoric.

 

[Flexo]

Why is it so hard to do this? Trick question. The people making Star Trek, Star Wars, etc. never even want to do this. They are parasites that infect a franchise with their

Have I posted this before? I know I've have on other boards but can't remember if this one.

Still watch it then watch it again. Watch it until the words are burned into your brain.

"The fact that corporate types have to have focus groups and agencies to tell them why properties like Star Trek and Star Wars are popular is the smoking gun for how hopelessly talentless and dull these halfwits really are in the meetings rooms of the entertainment industry."

Really the whole thing is quotable.

 

[AnOminous]

I already gave you my pitch: Starfleet Academy. Get a bunch of recently graduated cadets about to start their first mission for the first season and put Barclay as their (initially reluctant) supervisor. Make it a simple 10-episode mission to help us to know the characters and end the season with them returning earth for their evaluation.

And have Barclay's specialty be rehabilitating cadets who have issues and are struggling with their duties and personalities, something he has personal experience with. Bad News Bears in Starfleet.

 

[RomanesEuntDomus]

And have Barclay's specialty be rehabilitating cadets who have issues and are struggling with their duties and personalities, something he has personal experience with. Bad News Bears in Starfleet.

Kinda reminds me of "Space Cases" on Nickelodeon. That show was about a group of space academy pupils and two of their teachers being stranded far away from Earth on an alien spaceship. I was mindblown to learn that Jewel Staite was in that show, portraying a young engineer...

It was just a cheap sci-fi show on Nickelodeon, but it was quite entertaining. I wouldn't mind a similar show set in ST with Barclay as one of the teachers, maybe team him up with another (new) character to spice things up a little. Have other classic characters pop up in cameos here and there, it would be great.
You could use this to follow the cadets going from their academy days with Barclay maybe to their first assignments in Starfleet (possibly teaming them up with another classic character in those seasons?) and then use that popularity for a movie or even a trilogy. From a marketing standpoint, it's rather smart to start out with a show, see what works and what doesn't, slowly evolve it and then lead into bigger projects. So of course we don't get that.

PS:
Regarding STP, I still expect them to replace Patrick Stewart as an actor, but use the silly "He's an android now" plotpoint to put his mind into a new body -> ie. they replace him with another actor or actress and treat his character like an ST Dr. Who... these hack writers in Hollywood have precisely two fucking inspirations nowadays: Harry Potter and Dr. Who.

 

[Uranus Pink]

They want to have their cake and eat it. Cadets saving the galaxy between tantrums.

Remember "Valiant"? What if those supercilious kiddywinks had a happy ending? Makes me sick.

Entirely plausible had Moore wasn't trying to budgeon the audience. Frankly the entire crew being Wesley expies have been unrealistic AF in of itself nevermind being deployed that far beyond the front lines. When realistically the Valiant crew would've had the crew ages ranging from 14-16ish to late 30ies for a combat vessel. Plus a "training" ship would be deep inside Federation space as the ship and the instructors are safe to train new crews. Examples battleships USS Wyoming in Chesapeake Bay, USS Utah (AA training) in Pearl Harbor before being sunk, carriers USS Sable and USS Wolverine stationed in the Great Lakes during WWII.

 

[WonderWino]

Having UGH MEN be successul and happy examples to look up to? In IT'S CURRENT YEAR?
Insert Constanza meme here.

Nah, all joking aside, it's really not hard to make a successful show in a beloved franchise:
Just make something new that gives fans something new, add a little twist to it so it stands out (and really, how fucking hard is that when you've got decades to ponder and a shitton of inspiration from other shows, movies, books and current topics?) and then show respect to the old fans and their beloved characters.

Why is it so hard to do this? Trick question. The people making Star Trek, Star Wars, etc. never even want to do this. They are parasites that infect a franchise with their vile politics, toxic views and repulsive rhetoric.

On that note, at this point the only things they haven't really touched on already are: an academy show - which has been considered literally since the 80s and for some reason never really went anywhere, a show set on a colony world (which was initially considered for what eventually became ds9 but was canned mostly for budget reasons as at the time it would require too much in the way of expensive on location shoots) which would more or less end up treading the same general idea that ds9 already did anyway, and some kind of anthology series. Personally if I were put in charge of creating a new series in the franchise i'd go with the anthology concept. Not so much in the outer limits sense of an entirely different story ever episode, but more along the lines of 'each season is set in a different era, maybe following a particular crew, with an overall story arc that spans each season in some way. It would be the simplest way to please everybody. Have season 1 be set in the tos era, season 2 in the tos movie era (maybe doing something in the 80 years between the movies and tng), season 3 could be the early tng era, season 4 maybe going more clone wars style into the dominion war as it really wasn't covered all that much beyond a very small slice during ds9 so there is quite a bit to work with there, and a few seasons past that pushing into a new era and perhaps setting something up as a backdoor pilot into an actual full series of its own later on. It would be expensive and a large undertaking for the studio, but it would give everyone something, open the door to do things you couldn't really do with a standard series and allow you to set things up for later series or films to follow and nudge things forward to starting a new era in the franchise

 

[make_it_so]

I saw a commercial for that new Star Trek cartoon on tv and it hit me that Star Trek isn't a special cult phenomenon anymore.

It's just more fodder for the content machine.

Like, who the fuck is that even supposed to be appealing to? Stop greenlighting shit just because you can!

Have I posted this before? I know I've have on other boards but can't remember if this one.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=FqhC5fMyU_I
Still watch it then watch it again. Watch it until the words are burned into your brain.

"The fact that corporate types have to have focus groups and agencies to tell them why properties like Star Trek and Star Wars are popular is the smoking gun for how hopelessly talentless and dull these halfwits really are in the meetings rooms of the entertainment industry."

Really the whole thing is quotable.

Retroblasting has got it right. To the boards, Star Trek and Star Wars are just "product that is known and popular." They don't understand why they are known or popular, nor do they particularly care. So they don't know or care what made them special in the first place, and hand them off to hacks who equally don't understand or even give a fuck.

 

[Sweet and Savoury]

I've been thinking...scary I know right.

Why did things like Star Trek and Star wars strike such a cord among so many different cultures?

I've travelled a metric shit tonne in my life. From the barren dirt roads of Rwanda, where I talked to a 12 year old who told me in broken english why Vader was the bestest villain ever, to the dark forests of Norway where I argued with a drunken sailor that Kirk was the better captain.over Picard.

In a tower condo in Tokyo I listened 2 men argue for an hour over whether is was good or bad that Han shot 1st and at the tip of Chile where over beers I traded trivia with 3 rancheros from Wrath.

How did these two franchises have such reach and commonality? What did they offer that so many different cultures that even 25+ years later people like us are still talking about it? That people are so passionate about some simple stories and characters?

My opinion is this...Hope.

Both of these IP focused on Hope...a brighter future where humanity came together to over come its problems. From Kirk and Picard to Luke and Leai these stories have brought hope to so many people across the world, no mater the language or the culture people were able to find something to love in these two IPs. The vision of a brighter future is something anyone can get behind.

Ok so what?

Well I ask myself where are the new Star Wars or Star Trek? With an explosion in media over the last decades why hasn't something like these two IP emerged? We have gobs and gobs of both sc-fi and fantasy shit being cranked out by Hollywood and co so why are none of them reaching out and touching people like Trek did?

Sadly my tinfoil hat sez this;

all the new IP's have one thing in common...from BSG to B5 to GoT to Westworld and all the nu-Trek and JJ-Wars. Can you guess what it is?

Its grim...its all grim all the way down. Its gritty and dark and depressing to the core. Who watched End Game and walked away cheered and buoyed by its ending? Hopefully no one who wasn't a psychopath. I can't think of the last adult or even children's media that showed humanity in a good light or with a positive future. Its all darkness and conflict without end, pain and grief and ugliness to the bitter end.

So again...why?

Does hope no longer resonate with our culture? Have we all just given up hope that the future will be better then today? Is all that is left for future generations despair and darkness?

Do audiences no longer respond to hope and simply want to see people suffer? Why has everything been cloaked in a dark, gritty, morally barren blanket?

I dunno...the tinfoil part of me sez that this is deliberate. That hope for the future isn't compatible with what the elites have planned for our society. That keeping every man turned against his neighbour desperately grabbing for that little scrap left between them is the plan. After all its much easier to control a fragment population who see their neighbour as their enemy then it is to control a group of people unified and striving for a brighter future for all. To see what the movers and shakers have planned for the future just look to the media it pushes.

I dunno...its just been something that's been rattling around in my head for the last few days. Maybe I'm just getting to the crotchety old man stage of my life.

 

[draggs]

I've been thinking...scary I know right.

Why did things like Star Trek and Star wars strike such a cord among so many different cultures?

I've travelled a metric shit tonne in my life. From the barren dirt roads of Rwanda, where I talked to a 12 year old who told me in broken english why Vader was the bestest villain ever, to the dark forests of Norway where I argued with a drunken sailor that Kirk was the better captain.over Picard.

In a tower condo in Tokyo I listened 2 men argue for an hour over whether is was good or bad that Han shot 1st and at the tip of Chile where over beers I traded trivia with 3 rancheros from Wrath.

How did these two franchises have such reach and commonality? What did they offer that so many different cultures that even 25+ years later people like us are still talking about it? That people are so passionate about some simple stories and characters?

My opinion is this...Hope.

Both of these IP focused on Hope...a brighter future where humanity came together to over come its problems. From Kirk and Picard to Luke and Leai these stories have brought hope to so many people across the world, no mater the language or the culture people were able to find something to love in these two IPs. The vision of a brighter future is something anyone can get behind.

Ok so what?

Well I ask myself where are the new Star Wars or Star Trek? With an explosion in media over the last decades why hasn't something like these two IP emerged? We have gobs and gobs of both sc-fi and fantasy shit being cranked out by Hollywood and co so why are none of them reaching out and touching people like Trek did?

Sadly my tinfoil hat sez this;

all the new IP's have one thing in common...from BSG to B5 to GoT to Westworld and all the nu-Trek and JJ-Wars. Can you guess what it is?

Its grim...its all grim all the way down. Its gritty and dark and depressing to the core. Who watched End Game and walked away cheered and buoyed by its ending? Hopefully no one who wasn't a psychopath. I can't think of the last adult or even children's media that showed humanity in a good light or with a positive future. Its all darkness and conflict without end, pain and grief and ugliness to the bitter end.

So again...why?

Does hope no longer resonate with our culture? Have we all just given up hope that the future will be better then today? Is all that is left for future generations despair and darkness?

Do audiences no longer respond to hope and simply want to see people suffer? Why has everything been cloaked in a dark, gritty, morally barren blanket?

I dunno...the tinfoil part of me sez that this is deliberate. That hope for the future isn't compatible with what the elites have planned for our society. That keeping every man turned against his neighbour desperately grabbing for that little scrap left between them is the plan. After all its much easier to control a fragment population who see their neighbour as their enemy then it is to control a group of people unified and striving for a brighter future for all. To see what the movers and shakers have planned for the future just look to the media it pushes.

I dunno...its just been something that's been rattling around in my head for the last few days. Maybe I'm just getting to the crotchety old man stage of my life.

The people making this modern shit are basically doomposters

They think right now is awful and they have no hope themselves

In their circles if you don't agree that right now is awful and there is no hope then you are complicit in the racism/sexism/transphobia/destruction of the earth/oppression/whatever

 

[Drag-on Knight 91873]

I've been thinking...scary I know right.

Why did things like Star Trek and Star wars strike such a cord among so many different cultures?

I've travelled a metric shit tonne in my life. From the barren dirt roads of Rwanda, where I talked to a 12 year old who told me in broken english why Vader was the bestest villain ever, to the dark forests of Norway where I argued with a drunken sailor that Kirk was the better captain.over Picard.

In a tower condo in Tokyo I listened 2 men argue for an hour over whether is was good or bad that Han shot 1st and at the tip of Chile where over beers I traded trivia with 3 rancheros from Wrath.

How did these two franchises have such reach and commonality? What did they offer that so many different cultures that even 25+ years later people like us are still talking about it? That people are so passionate about some simple stories and characters?

My opinion is this...Hope.

Both of these IP focused on Hope...a brighter future where humanity came together to over come its problems. From Kirk and Picard to Luke and Leai these stories have brought hope to so many people across the world, no mater the language or the culture people were able to find something to love in these two IPs. The vision of a brighter future is something anyone can get behind.

Ok so what?

Well I ask myself where are the new Star Wars or Star Trek? With an explosion in media over the last decades why hasn't something like these two IP emerged? We have gobs and gobs of both sc-fi and fantasy shit being cranked out by Hollywood and co so why are none of them reaching out and touching people like Trek did?

Sadly my tinfoil hat sez this;

all the new IP's have one thing in common...from BSG to B5 to GoT to Westworld and all the nu-Trek and JJ-Wars. Can you guess what it is?

Its grim...its all grim all the way down. Its gritty and dark and depressing to the core. Who watched End Game and walked away cheered and buoyed by its ending? Hopefully no one who wasn't a psychopath. I can't think of the last adult or even children's media that showed humanity in a good light or with a positive future. Its all darkness and conflict without end, pain and grief and ugliness to the bitter end.

So again...why?

Does hope no longer resonate with our culture? Have we all just given up hope that the future will be better then today? Is all that is left for future generations despair and darkness?

Do audiences no longer respond to hope and simply want to see people suffer? Why has everything been cloaked in a dark, gritty, morally barren blanket?

I dunno...the tinfoil part of me sez that this is deliberate. That hope for the future isn't compatible with what the elites have planned for our society. That keeping every man turned against his neighbour desperately grabbing for that little scrap left between them is the plan. After all its much easier to control a fragment population who see their neighbour as their enemy then it is to control a group of people unified and striving for a brighter future for all. To see what the movers and shakers have planned for the future just look to the media it pushes.

I dunno...its just been something that's been rattling around in my head for the last few days. Maybe I'm just getting to the crotchety old man stage of my life.

I don't think you have to assign it to Elite maliciousness. It's a shift from Silent/Boomer thinking to Gen X thinking. Aside from Babylon 5, Battlestar Galactica, Game of Thrones, and most good modern media were the product of Gen X midwits. I've already said this about Ron Moore's Battlestar Galactica; it's a show trying to understand Exodus from the atheist perspective. To Gen X, hope is an abstraction that often fails to materialize and not rooted in empirical evidence. To them, God as a source of hope and objective morality don't really exist, so the real world has to be grim-dark. Note that the praise for these shows stem from how realistic the grit is. Since art is an interpretation of Truth, their beliefs in a lack of hope bleeds through all their art, even if it's not what they're trying to do intentionally like with Ron Moore's BGS.

It also doesn't help that Gen X and Millenials lack sufficient knowledge of the Classics. Ya Boi Zack brought up similar thoughts when it came to Jack Kirby.

 

[Gaear Grimsrud]

Like seriously, that new show looks like it's for kids, to introduce them to the property, but then why have Janeway there?

Kids aren't gonna give a fuck about Janeway. That's only there to try and trick adult Star Trek fans into watching it.