Sony hate thread

[Marissa Moira]

The Japanese will never not aim for their home market. That's like Hollywood not trying to sell to Americans. Japanese products are still made first and foremost with the home market in mind. That's true of companies in every nation. The key is to make something that appeals to the home market that can still find an international audience. JRPGs are a perfect example. They didn't' become popular overseas by becoming more westernized; the exact opposite in fact. Its their "Japanese-ness" that sets them apart. The truth is that Japanese targeted products tend to do better over here in America than they do in their home country (something even that fat fuck Jim Sterling had to point out). Chasing an international audience doesn't mean abandoning their own home grown audience.

Except all the publishers listed are doing exactly that, they're not aiming for their home market. Sega and Atlus have 70% of their sales in the west. Even publishers like falcom have directly said they're not making games for Japan because people around the world are more likely to buy their games. You're left with no real publishers of substantial size who are primarily favoring japan at this point.


Going "it's their Japanese-ness that sets them apart" isn't well a good description or a good understanding of what makes the games work. It's mechanics. There's been loads of very japanese games that have bombed in the states, just look at Yokai Watch. Final Fantasy 7 was the game that popularized JRPGs in the west and that game isn't visibly Japanese at all outside of maybe Wutai. Final Fantasy 7 has very good turn based mechanics, on top of a fairly sizable world you can explore with a lot of worthwhile content, that's what really gave Final Fantasy 7 it's success.

Mechanics are something that any company around the world can learn and adapt. Just look at the current state of Wild Hearts, it's a better twist on the monster hunter genre and seems to have everything down pat where series like Toukiden, Dauntless, Freedom Wars, and God Eater all failed. And the game is being made by EA and Omega Force.

There's also the fact that Final Fantasy 14 was saved because Yoshi P demanded that his staff play and familiarize themselves with World of Warcraft because the original version of 14 had godawful MMO mechanics because everyone on the staff were only familiar with non-wow MMOs. So all the quality of life changes to the genre that were added to 14 and made it a global hit were all ones originally developed outside of Japan.

 

[The Demon Pimp of Razgriz]

Except all the publishers listed are doing exactly that, they're not aiming for their home market.

How so? In what specific way are Japanese companies not trying to appeal to their home market? Have they stopped selling their games in Japan? Are they going out of their way to say they abandoned or moved on from the Japanese market publicly? Have they closed their Japanese offices? All of these are thing Sony are doing, but, last I checked, Japanese companies are still selling their products there, still going to the Tokyo Game Show, still marketing in Japan, and still have their Japanese offices open. They haven't abandoned the market at all, and their is no objective proof you can point to indicating such.

 

[Marissa Moira]

How so? In what specific way are Japanese companies not trying to appeal to their home market? Have they stopped selling their games in Japan? Are they going out of their way to say they abandoned or moved on from the Japanese market publicly? Have they closed their Japanese offices? All of these are thing Sony are doing, but, last I checked, Japanese companies are still selling their products there, still going to the Tokyo Game Show, still marketing in Japan, and still have their Japanese offices open. They haven't abandoned the market at all, and their is no objective proof you can point to indicating such.

They have literally all said the Japanese market is not growing and the japanese market cannot sustain them. They have to target markets outside of Japan as the primary means of selling the game or the game will not turn a profit.

Also sony did not close their japanese offices, they relocated their headquarters but the offices are still open and currently have more Japanese studios in operation under Jim Ryan than before he took the role of CEO. They effectively split Japan Studio into pieces with their mobile studios going one way and spun off into their own thing, Japan Studio's subsidiary Team Asobi taking over their game dev and IPs, and now external development in Japan is run by XDEV. There's really has not been a major change in function outside of getting rid of the bad management who made Knack 1 and Knack 2 and allowed TLG to be in development for 8 years.

 

[Hammr2]

Going "it's their Japanese-ness that sets them apart" isn't well a good description or a good understanding of what makes the games work. It's mechanics. There's been loads of very japanese games that have bombed in the states, just look at Yokai Watch. Final Fantasy 7 was the game that popularized JRPGs in the west and that game isn't visibly Japanese at all outside of maybe Wutai. Final Fantasy 7 has very good turn based mechanics, on top of a fairly sizable world you can explore with a lot of worthwhile content, that's what really gave Final Fantasy 7 it's success.

Mechanics are something that any company around the world can learn and adapt. Just look at the current state of Wild Hearts, it's a better twist on the monster hunter genre and seems to have everything down pat where series like Toukiden, Dauntless, Freedom Wars, and God Eater all failed. And the game is being made by EA and Omega Force.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=dbJPkCD9ZTs

1) Monster Hunter like games fail for the same obvious reason why all of other Souls like games fail. The players want to play Souls/MonHun game not the lesser clones. Whether they aren't enough depth, faster pace/spamming, "easier", too anime/weeby and don't feel as much high quality.

2) It's funny that you include Dauntless, it's not a JP game by any means. Beside that, Dauntless is truly a poor man F2P MonHun from weapon usage feel, monster balance and especially game contents and balance. I'd rather recommend a random person to try emulate old MonHun games to play rather than Dauntless.

3) Toukiden is literally made by same Koei team Omega Force. I can't say much about PS platform performance, but both Toukiden games are plagued with horrible PC port problems by typical Koei team. Still selling game as full price AAA (60USD) and not having many sales off don't really help either.

So I don't even know how you think just because they are backed by EA, somehow their game instantly the better MonHun clones now with that 7 minute gameplay. Must I remind you that, Wild Hearts is sold at 70USD next year in Feb, meanwhile MonHun Rise is still guaranteed to have updates next year?

There's also the fact that Final Fantasy 14 was saved because Yoshi P demanded that his staff play and familiarize themselves with World of Warcraft because the original version of 14 had godawful MMO mechanics because everyone on the staff were only familiar with non-wow MMOs. So all the quality of life changes to the genre that were added to 14 and made it a global hit were all ones originally developed outside of Japan.

One thing I can agree on this, Japanese are really bad at making MMO, or should I say they really don't have good grasp at making a game for general MMO players, that is like another big thing I don't want to rant.
For example, even Capcom tried to make a PvP focuse online game with old MonHun engine, Ixion Saga with also an anime adaptation (looks nothing like the game) too. game only lived for 2 yearsish.
Square Enix with whatever the hell Babylon Falls.

The only 3 big and alive MMOs they have are FF14, Phantasy Star Online 2 and Dragon Quest 10. Then again, if I'm being honest, it's too late to have any kind of MMO games to attract players now unless you are Blizzard or Riot Games.

 

[Marissa Moira]

1) Monster Hunter like games fail for the same obvious reason why all of other Souls like games fail. The players want to play Souls/MonHun game not the lesser clones. Whether they aren't enough depth, faster pace/spamming, "easier", too anime/weeby and don't feel as much high quality.

2) It's funny that you include Dauntless, it's not a JP game by any means. Beside that, Dauntless is truly a poor man F2P MonHun from weapon usage feel, monster balance and especially game contents and balance. I'd rather recommend a random person to try emulate old MonHun games to play rather than Dauntless.

3) Toukiden is literally made by same Koei team Omega Force. I can't say much about PS platform performance, but both Toukiden games are plagued with horrible PC port problems by typical Koei team. Still selling game as full price AAA (60USD) and not having many sales off don't really help either.

So I don't even know how you think just because they are backed by EA, somehow their game instantly the better MonHun clones now with that 7 minute gameplay. Must I remind you that, Wild Hearts is sold at 70USD next year in Feb, meanwhile MonHun Rise is still guaranteed to have updates next year?
View attachment 3839112


One thing I can agree on this, Japanese are really bad at making MMO, or should I say they really don't have good grasp at making a game for general MMO players, that is like another big thing I don't want to rant.
For example, even Capcom tried to make a PvP focuse online game with old MonHun engine, Ixion Saga with also an anime adaptation (looks nothing like the game) too. game only lived for 2 yearsish.
Square Enix with whatever the hell Babylon Falls.

The only 3 big and alive MMOs they have are FF14, Phantasy Star Online 2 and Dragon Quest 10. Then again, if I'm being honest, it's too late to have any kind of MMO games to attract players now unless you are Blizzard or Riot Games.

I included Dauntless because it's the same genre and mechanically is still falls way short and this mostly had to do with it being in development prior to MHW which fixed all the problems that Dauntless claimed it was going to fix with the genre.

I know Omega Force worked on Toukiden, but the differences between that and Wild Hearts is night and day. Because that boar fight plays out similarly as if you fighting something like Durambos or a Banbaro. Yes EA does play a part in it but it's not shouldering the majority of the development outside of the overall cost. But the big takeaway is a large US company is funding a genre that it historically has no real expertise in, EA for the majority is run by sport titles. Whatever RPGs it has in it's stable of IPs are also games that play nothing like a Monster Hunter either.

The problem with most clones of Monster Hunter is that they fail to get the procedure of the hunt down. It's not just swing weapon at monster and break parts, it's very methodical and that's what Wild Hearts showed in it's gameplay trailer of really nailing all the stages of the hunt from beginning with the prepwork, finding the monster, to weakening it either through craftable objects or weapon affinity, and then eventually killing or capturing it. And then all the while as the hunt progresses the monster's behavior will change, you'll get enrages that change the move set or introduce new abilities, and you can mitigate this effect by usually breaking parts which again will change how the monster acts. Within that very 7 minutes you can tell that it's a very fluid fight which none of the previous clones were able to do either. It shows a ton of attention to gameplay detail that all the other clones lacked.

 

[augment]

How hard is it to pitch a game where you are the giant scaly monster wrecking towns and villages, instead of a spike-haired poof in armor swining a surfboard popsicle over and over and over like in a fucking trash MMORPG. That would at the very least get me to consider buying a ps5 or a switch.

 

[ChefKiss]

Except all the publishers listed are doing exactly that, they're not aiming for their home market. Sega and Atlus have 70% of their sales in the west. Even publishers like falcom have directly said they're not making games for Japan because people around the world are more likely to buy their games. You're left with no real publishers of substantial size who are primarily favoring japan at this point.

The West Likes Yakuza Because It Doesn't Pander to Western Tastes, Says SEGA

Preach

www.pushsquare.com

SEGA put their success down to NOT pandering to the west. They get their majority of sales in the west but they understand that people in the west like japanese games and they know trying to make something specifically to appeal to the west would be stupid

Team Ninja themselves said this to explain the failure of appealing to the west

“It seems like we made a Japanese hamburger for the west…Maybe as a Japanese developer, we need to make good Japanese food … and that’s what people are wanting from a Japanese developer.”

Despite that, they keep making the same mistake, appealing to the west killed Ninjia Gaiden and Dead or Alive. Meanwhile KOEI-Tecmo's biggest success story in years is an anime girl JRPG

 

[IDanceonTrannyGraves]

They have literally all said the Japanese market is not growing and the japanese market cannot sustain them. They have to target markets outside of Japan as the primary means of selling the game or the game will not turn a profit.

Also sony did not close their japanese offices, they relocated their headquarters but the offices are still open and currently have more Japanese studios in operation under Jim Ryan than before he took the role of CEO. They effectively split Japan Studio into pieces with their mobile studios going one way and spun off into their own thing, Japan Studio's subsidiary Team Asobi taking over their game dev and IPs, and now external development in Japan is run by XDEV. There's really has not been a major change in function outside of getting rid of the bad management who made Knack 1 and Knack 2 and allowed TLG to be in development for 8 years.

Nigger, you are full of shit. Shut your cake hole.
No one wants to be spewed by your shit.

 

[whatever I feel like]

https://www.axios.com/2022/11/08/square-enix-sega-konami-gaming-pivot

The data points in the article don't match what you are saying or even what the article itself is editorializing.

 

[Car Won't Crank]

How so? In what specific way are Japanese companies not trying to appeal to their home market? Have they stopped selling their games in Japan? Are they going out of their way to say they abandoned or moved on from the Japanese market publicly? Have they closed their Japanese offices? All of these are thing Sony are doing, but, last I checked, Japanese companies are still selling their products there, still going to the Tokyo Game Show, still marketing in Japan, and still have their Japanese offices open. They haven't abandoned the market at all, and their is no objective proof you can point to indicating such.

There actually is an example of this straight from the director's mouth: Final Fantasy Kingsglaive. Yes it's not a game, but it adds a great deal of context to FF15 that I think most fans will sit down and watch. In one of the behind the scenes shorts, the director explcitly stated that they wanted to appeal to the western market and hired an all western motion capture and voice acting team to do that. He said something along the lines of nuances in gesture and posture between western and Japanese people is different so he wanted to capture that in the movie.

 

[XMassAllYearRound]

I went back a few pages and since I saw nobody talk about it, Did anybody notice Persona 5 Royale was stealth dropped into steam on Oct. 20?
I donate to the PCS3 somewhat regularly as I know from a relatively thrust-worthy source that some members are working on a ps4 emulator in secret, however after hearing about this I checked the games that remain exclusive and this whole thing about refusing to support Japanese third party developers seems to be working out great in the long run.

Spoiler: All 63 games that remain ps4 exclussive

Alienation (video game)
Astro Bot Rescue Mission
Basement Crawl
Blood & Truth
Bloodborne
Bound (video game)
Bravo Team
Concrete Genie
Cyber Danganronpa VR: The Class Trial
Deep Down (video game)
Déraciné
Drawn to Death
Dreams (video game)
Driveclub
Everybody's Golf (2017 video game)
Farpoint (video game)
Fat Princess Adventures
Firewall: Zero Hour
Fist of the North Star: Lost Paradise
Gran Turismo Sport
Gravity Rush 2
Hakoniwa Company Works
Hardware: Rivals
Hidden Agenda (2017 video game)
The Idolmaster Platinum Stars
Infamous First Light
Infamous Second Son
The Inpatient
Iron Man VR
Killzone Shadow Fall
Knack (video game)
Knack II
Knowledge is Power (video game)
Kyoei Toshi
The Last Guardian
The Last of Us Part II
Matterfall
MediEvil (2019 video game)
MLB The Show 17
MLB The Show 18
MLB The Show 19
MLB The Show 20
Monster of the Deep: Final Fantasy XV
The Order: 1886
P.T. (video game)
The Playroom (2013 video game)
PlayStation VR Worlds
Ratchet & Clank (2016 video game)
Record of Grancrest War
RIGS: Mechanized Combat League
Sakura Wars (2019 video game)
Shadow of the Beast (2016 video game)
Shadow of the Colossus (2018 video game)
Tearaway Unfolded
That's You!
The Tomorrow Children
Uncharted: The Nathan Drake Collection
Until Dawn
Until Dawn: Rush of Blood
Wayward Sky
Wipeout Omega Collection
The Witch and the Hundred Knight 2
Without Memory

Is there even a game here that's worth a damn, not a remake, not VR bullshit and not guaranteed to be ported to PC at this point?

 

[anustart76]

I went back a few pages and since I saw nobody talk about it, Did anybody notice Persona 5 Royale was stealth dropped into steam on Oct. 20?
I donate to the PCS3 somewhat regularly as I know from a relatively thrust-worthy source that some members are working on a ps4 emulator in secret, however after hearing about this I checked the games that remain exclusive and this whole thing about refusing to support Japanese third party developers seems to be working out great in the long run.

Spoiler: All 63 games that remain ps4 exclussive

Alienation (video game)
Astro Bot Rescue Mission
Basement Crawl
Blood & Truth
Bloodborne
Bound (video game)
Bravo Team
Concrete Genie
Cyber Danganronpa VR: The Class Trial
Deep Down (video game)
Déraciné
Drawn to Death
Dreams (video game)
Driveclub
Everybody's Golf (2017 video game)
Farpoint (video game)
Fat Princess Adventures
Firewall: Zero Hour
Fist of the North Star: Lost Paradise
Gran Turismo Sport
Gravity Rush 2
Hakoniwa Company Works
Hardware: Rivals
Hidden Agenda (2017 video game)
The Idolmaster Platinum Stars
Infamous First Light
Infamous Second Son
The Inpatient
Iron Man VR
Killzone Shadow Fall
Knack (video game)
Knack II
Knowledge is Power (video game)
Kyoei Toshi
The Last Guardian
The Last of Us Part II
Matterfall
MediEvil (2019 video game)
MLB The Show 17
MLB The Show 18
MLB The Show 19
MLB The Show 20
Monster of the Deep: Final Fantasy XV
The Order: 1886
P.T. (video game)
The Playroom (2013 video game)
PlayStation VR Worlds
Ratchet & Clank (2016 video game)
Record of Grancrest War
RIGS: Mechanized Combat League
Sakura Wars (2019 video game)
Shadow of the Beast (2016 video game)
Shadow of the Colossus (2018 video game)
Tearaway Unfolded
That's You!
The Tomorrow Children
Uncharted: The Nathan Drake Collection
Until Dawn
Until Dawn: Rush of Blood
Wayward Sky
Wipeout Omega Collection
The Witch and the Hundred Knight 2
Without Memory

Is there even a game here that's worth a damn, not a remake, not VR bullshit and not guaranteed to be ported to PC at this point?

Persona 5R and 3P were announced for PC back in June, see here: https://www.gematsu.com/2022/06/per...o-ps4-and-persona-3-portable-to-ps4-and-steam

As for PS games that really need to be ported to PC my big ones would be Uncharted Nathan Drake Collection and the first 2 InFamous games.

 

[Vyse Inglebard]

As for PS games that really need to be ported to PC my big ones would be Uncharted Nathan Drake Collection and the first 2 InFamous games.

GET. THE. FUCK. IN. LINE. NIGGER.

 

[whatever I feel like]

I went back a few pages and since I saw nobody talk about it, Did anybody notice Persona 5 Royale was stealth dropped into steam on Oct. 20?
I donate to the PCS3 somewhat regularly as I know from a relatively thrust-worthy source that some members are working on a ps4 emulator in secret, however after hearing about this I checked the games that remain exclusive and this whole thing about refusing to support Japanese third party developers seems to be working out great in the long run.

Spoiler: All 63 games that remain ps4 exclussive

Alienation (video game)
Astro Bot Rescue Mission
Basement Crawl
Blood & Truth
Bloodborne
Bound (video game)
Bravo Team
Concrete Genie
Cyber Danganronpa VR: The Class Trial
Deep Down (video game)
Déraciné
Drawn to Death
Dreams (video game)
Driveclub
Everybody's Golf (2017 video game)
Farpoint (video game)
Fat Princess Adventures
Firewall: Zero Hour
Fist of the North Star: Lost Paradise
Gran Turismo Sport
Gravity Rush 2
Hakoniwa Company Works
Hardware: Rivals
Hidden Agenda (2017 video game)
The Idolmaster Platinum Stars
Infamous First Light
Infamous Second Son
The Inpatient
Iron Man VR
Killzone Shadow Fall
Knack (video game)
Knack II
Knowledge is Power (video game)
Kyoei Toshi
The Last Guardian
The Last of Us Part II
Matterfall
MediEvil (2019 video game)
MLB The Show 17
MLB The Show 18
MLB The Show 19
MLB The Show 20
Monster of the Deep: Final Fantasy XV
The Order: 1886
P.T. (video game)
The Playroom (2013 video game)
PlayStation VR Worlds
Ratchet & Clank (2016 video game)
Record of Grancrest War
RIGS: Mechanized Combat League
Sakura Wars (2019 video game)
Shadow of the Beast (2016 video game)
Shadow of the Colossus (2018 video game)
Tearaway Unfolded
That's You!
The Tomorrow Children
Uncharted: The Nathan Drake Collection
Until Dawn
Until Dawn: Rush of Blood
Wayward Sky
Wipeout Omega Collection
The Witch and the Hundred Knight 2
Without Memory

Is there even a game here that's worth a damn, not a remake, not VR bullshit and not guaranteed to be ported to PC at this point?

Why on earth has Dreams not been ported yet? Did they give up on it? They said they wouldn't...

 

[Marissa Moira]

The West Likes Yakuza Because It Doesn't Pander to Western Tastes, Says SEGA

Preach

www.pushsquare.com

SEGA put their success down to NOT pandering to the west. They get their majority of sales in the west but they understand that people in the west like japanese games and they know trying to make something specifically to appeal to the west would be stupid

Team Ninja themselves said this to explain the failure of appealing to the west

Despite that, they keep making the same mistake, appealing to the west killed Ninjia Gaiden and Dead or Alive. Meanwhile KOEI-Tecmo's biggest success story in years is an anime girl JRPG

Except Sega now pulls most of it's business from the west. Pandering to the west in this instance is putting out more games like the ones that they made which already had success in the west.. To put it in further context this is why Atlus is putting Persona mechanics into everything currently because persona 5 had 70% of it's sales in the west and was it's largest selling title and still is to this day.

You're specifically thinking along the lines of a Japanese company taking a game that for the majority has a focus on game mechanics that either originated or were popularized in the west and putting a Japanese IP on it. But considering all the praise that Sonic Frontiers is getting that it didn't turn out worse than Sonic Forces and neither did Breath of The Wild which was the standard ubisoft formula.

Team Ninja even changed it's direction to appeal to the west, Souls titles are only popular in the west and they made Nioh in response to the popularity of dark souls. The last Ninja Gaiden game was released around 10 years ago

 

[XMassAllYearRound]

Persona 5R and 3P were announced for PC back in June, see here: https://www.gematsu.com/2022/06/per...o-ps4-and-persona-3-portable-to-ps4-and-steam

As for PS games that really need to be ported to PC my big ones would be Uncharted Nathan Drake Collection and the first 2 InFamous games.

I didn't know about persona 5 being announced, sorry about that.

RPCS3 can run infamous and the original uncharted trilogy with little to no issues now. It used to have problems with uncharted; something about the game failing to render particles properly turning them into disco lights and generating white artifacts at random, however that was addressed 6 months ago and as of 2 months ago the trilogy can now be completed from start to finish.

There's a guide on youtube to make the games run on lesser hardware at a constant 20-30 fps however given the speed at which the rpcs3 team usually works I give half a year before it can run smoothly on something like a 1660 super, tops.

 

[augment]

Are you fellas going to start the whole "X should be ported to PC/Steam" circle that makes you sound exactly like the nintendo mouthbreathers who act entitled to have the whole of human knowledge ported over to their foul malfunctioning dreck of a console.

 

[Marissa Moira]

Are you fellas going to start the whole "X should be ported to PC/Steam" circle that makes you sound exactly like the nintendo mouthbreathers who act entitled to have the whole of human knowledge ported over to their foul malfunctioning dreck of a console.

Do you have something against long standing traditions? You're not one of those californian progressive types are you?

 

[XMassAllYearRound]

Are you fellas going to start the whole "X should be ported to PC/Steam" circle that makes you sound exactly like the nintendo mouthbreathers who act entitled to have the whole of human knowledge ported over to their foul malfunctioning dreck of a console.

I'm not in favor of porting games to any particular console or platform, the games listed above could run on an Xbox One with Developer Mode activated for all I care; I just love seeing fanboys and walled garden users reeeeeee at the thought that they have to share their toys with other people.

 

[Marissa Moira]

I'm not in favor of porting games to any particular console or platform, the games listed above could run on an Xbox One with Developer Mode activated for all I care; I just love seeing fanboys and walled garden users reeeeeee at the thought that they have to share their toys with other people.

I think that's mostly died down, none of the PC port sales from Sony have cannibalized their console sales or threatened the PS5's success. If they ever hypothetically do(and it would happen once the market is saturated and PS5's are readily available) they would probably kill the the PS5 PC ports for single player games. Currently their PC strategy will require a launcher in a few months and I suspect many Steam port beggers are going to be upset with another launcher on their PC. Because they're only getting these multiplayer games day one so sony can reap the sales from microtransactions.