Serious LGBT Discussion

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I don't think homosexuality is genetic anymore. In fact, I've come to question the idea of sexual orientation altogether and now see things instead as sexual acts rather than sexuality.

That said, I still think there are numerous reasons why those who live in most domestic societies drift towards certain sexual preferences as opposed to others. Sexual segregation, environmental stress and a search for stress relief, cultural attitudes on which types of activity is or isn't acceptable for the situation you're in, and total reassurance of the continuation of the species are probably the biggest deciding factors that go into the equation based on what I've seen so far.
 
autisticdragonkin said:
What does that mean?
Do you think that anybody has sex "for the continuation of the species". That's not how evolution works
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Most humans don't anymore. Infant mortality's low, life expectancy is high, and our population is large, spread out, and for the most part secure. Most of us don't have to worry about pandemic, famine, or predators even of our own kind. As a result, sex is now less about procreation than ever before, and has less reason to be about procreation than ever before.

But we still love sex, because it's fun, it relieves stress, and it's hardwired into our evolutionary survival. New reasons for sex are now the primary driver, and as a result, our sexual habits have changed from when we were wild or still barely civilized. In many ways, homosexual sex is a marker of our prosperity.
 
*Asterisk* said:
Most humans don't anymore. Infant mortality's low, life expectancy is high, and our population is large, spread out, and for the most part secure. Most of us don't have to worry about pandemic, famine, or predators even of our own kind. As a result, sex is now less about procreation than ever before, and has less reason to be about procreation than ever before.

But we still love sex, because it's fun, it relieves stress, and it's hardwired into our evolutionary survival. New reasons for sex are now the primary driver, and as a result, our sexual habits have changed from when we were wild or still barely civilized. In many ways, homosexual sex is a marker of our prosperity.
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Nobody has ever had sex for the continuation of the species because evolution occurs at a genetic level not a species level
 
autisticdragonkin said:
Nobody has ever had sex for the continuation of the species because evolution occurs at a genetic level not a species level
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It's not about evolution. It's about survival. For most of history, passing your genes on was the only way you could leave any kind of legacy. It's an instinct with billions of years of history.
 
A significant amount of animals who are not as prosperous as us - even endangered ones, such as elephants - are known to exhibit homosexual behavior. This extends to species such as various insects and lizards, which do not have particularly developed cognitive function; in contrast with contraceptive heterosexual sex, a behavior only recorded in humans and dolphins.
 
autisticdragonkin said:
Nobody has ever had sex for the continuation of the species because evolution occurs at a genetic level not a species level
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Ever since humans became sapient enough to recognize that sex and reproduction are connected, they have had sex specifically for the purpose of reproduction.

This is why reproduction is a central tenet of most of the popular religions, which has led to lots of morons spreading moron genes specifically for the purpose of increasing the number of morons in their moron religions.

*tips fedora*
 
*Asterisk* said:
It's not about evolution. It's about survival. For most of history, passing your genes on was the only way you could leave any kind of legacy. It's an instinct with billions of years of history.
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Evolution is not teleological. It is just life trying to reproduce (if you even want to personify it like that) and sometimes succeeding and sometimes failing.
AnOminous said:
Ever since humans became sapient enough to recognize that sex and reproduction are connected, they have had sex specifically for the purpose of reproduction.

This is why reproduction is a central tenet of most of the popular religions, which has led to lots of morons spreading moron genes specifically for the purpose of increasing the number of morons in their moron religions.

*tips fedora*
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Wanting to reproduce yourself is different from wanting to continue the species as a whole.
 
Alberto Balsalm said:
A significant amount of animals who are not as prosperous as us - even endangered ones, such as elephants - are known to exhibit homosexual behavior. This extends to species such as various insects and lizards, which do not have particularly developed cognitive function; in contrast with contraceptive heterosexual sex, a behavior only recorded in humans and dolphins.
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It's not the same as humans, though. While there are plenty of animals who practice homosexual sex, there are no other non-domestic animals who practice exclusive or preferred homosexual acts. The only animals observed who practice homosexuality in the same way as modern humans are domesticated sheep, who don't live in anything close to a natural environment and have been selectively bred by humans in domestic environments for over ten thousand years.

The very idea of sexuality is a very domestic, and rather recent, phenomenon.
 
autisticdragonkin said:
Wanting to continue the species is an altruistic action one will take for the good of mankind. Wanting to reproduce is something one does in order to continue their own genes regardless of how it affects the species
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On an instinctual level, those are essentially the same thing. Most decisions to produce offspring involve some combination of reproductive instinct and the human rationalization thereof, the latter of which you are describing.
*Asterisk* said:
It's not the same as humans, though. While there are plenty of animals who practice homosexual sex, there are no other non-domestic animals who practice exclusive or preferred homosexual acts. The only animals observed who practice homosexuality in the same way as modern humans are domesticated sheep, who don't live in anything close to a natural environment and have been selectively bred by humans in domestic environments for over ten thousand years.

The very idea of sexuality is a very domestic, and rather recent, phenomenon.
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So it would seem the situation is a bit more complication than I originally thought. However, I can't quite draw the lines between the evidence you are providing and the theory that sexual orientation is a purely cultural construct. Do you believe domestic sheep are intelligent enough to have culture? I don't believe most would agree. I find myself more willing to believe that, say, as the species has experienced greatly relaxed natural selection, a genetic predisposition to homosexuality is no longer something that would be actively selected against.

There's also, of course, the wealth of biological research that supports the theory that sexual orientation is based in genetics. I suppose that would've been a much better direction to take this debate to begin with!
 
DuskEngine said:
The idea of sexuality as an identity is an historical thing. We can argue about whether or not it's 'natural', but homosexuality (and bisexuality, and transgenders/ third genders) is definitely something that has been around for a while.
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The act of sex is something that's been around for awhile, but that's not the same as sexuality. Homosexual sex long predates human civilization.

Homosexual sex and sexuality aren't the same thing. The act itself is something anyone can do, whereas the feeling to practice it exclusively is something only a small amount of people experience.
 
*Asterisk* said:
I don't think homosexuality is genetic anymore. In fact, I've come to question the idea of sexual orientation altogether and now see things instead as sexual acts rather than sexuality.

That said, I still think there are numerous reasons why those who live in most domestic societies drift towards certain sexual preferences as opposed to others. Sexual segregation, environmental stress and a search for stress relief, cultural attitudes on which types of activity is or isn't acceptable for the situation you're in, and total reassurance of the continuation of the species are probably the biggest deciding factors that go into the equation based on what I've seen so far.
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well why don't you go have sex with a bunch of men and prove your theory
 
Dr. Meme said:
well why don't you go have sex with a bunch of men and prove your theory
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I don't have to.

Not doing something is not the same thing as not being able to. Anybody who can have sex can, if they want to, have sex with their same gender as well, and that includes me.

That said, I don't know how I'd react had I wound up in a different situation, such as a heavily sexually segregated environment or a place where there isn't the same stigma attached to the act, than the one I'm in currently, or wind up in such a place in the future. I also don't know how I'd react to more minor changes as well, such as meeting different people.
 
*Asterisk* said:
I don't have to.

Not doing something is not the same thing as not being able to. Anybody who can have sex can, if they want to, have sex with their same gender as well, and that includes me.

That said, I don't know how I'd react had I wound up in a different situation, such as a heavily sexually segregated environment or a place where there isn't the same stigma attached to the act, than the one I'm in currently, or wind up in such a place in the future. I also don't know how I'd react to more minor changes as well, such as meeting different people.
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If homosexuality is a choice then why don't suicidal LGBT teens just choose to be straight?
 
Redeemer and Destroyer said:
I'm curious to know what you mean by this. If you're talking surgery, then that without a doubt is something trans adults could not live without.
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Some people who are trans don't exactly want surgery. Partially because dysphoria isn't only based on genitals, it can be more general body dysphoria, social dysphoria, sexual dysphoria. Lots of different things that a person who is trans can have any variation of.
 
Dr. Meme said:
If homosexuality is a choice then why don't suicidal LGBT teens just choose to be straight?
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Because it feels good, relieves tension, and they came up in an environment that led to practicing it making sense. Plus, after someone's actually done it, they know beyond the instinctive level why it'd feel good so of course they'd wanna do it again.

This goes beyond just conscious thought. It also applies to unconscious thought.
 
*Asterisk* said:
Because it feels good, relieves tension, and they came up in an environment that led to practicing it making sense. Plus, after someone's actually done it, they know beyond the instinctive level why it'd feel good so of course they'd wanna do it again.

This goes beyond just conscious thought. It also applies to unconscious thought.
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so you're saying that 16 year old kids that kill themselves because they feel horrible for not being attracted to the opposite gender do so because they are gay sex addicts and NOT because homosexuality is a human nature that has happened to people for centuries?
 
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