Serious LGBT Discussion

[Magpie]

Feeling like one is doomed to live as one gender as opposed to the other one. Essentially feeling (emotionally not rationally) like living as their assigned gender is inferior and having a sort of uncomfortable resignation to it

Spoiler: TL;DR dysphoria sucks ass

It can be experienced differently by people, but a catch all loose definition of sex dysphoria would be discomfort or dismay regarding your assigned gender in a biological sense. It's important to distinguish that this isn't about gender roles that are pinned to one's assigned gender, but the fact that you were born as what you are. For binary trans people - from what I have gathered - it is a mix of disgust of the assigned gender and longing to be the other end of the binary. Severity falls on a sliding scale. You might be feeling somewhat okay about it one day but be so distraught another that you can barely bring yourself to be seen in public. Some trans people have genital dysphoria that affects them strongly enough it prevents them from enjoying any form of sexual activity. That's the discontent with the body your genes gave you - something is intrinsically out of place.

Social dysphoria extends to how society treats you because of the perception of one's assigned gender. Again it's different from "ew icky gender roles" (hating gender roles and being cis is common as hell) because it mostly ties back to sex dysphoria and the reminder of it when out and about. Being MTF/FTM and being treated and addressed solely as a man/woman obivously gets on people's nerves. As always though not everyone is affected the same way.

I'm not exactly a scholar nor do I pretend to be but outside of :powerlevel: I hope that can be a bit more helpful? If you're more wistfully thinking on occasion "oh I wonder what it's like to be the opposite sex" I don't think that equals being transgender so much as curious about "what if" scenarios.

 

[QI 541]

I don't have anything against transexuals, but I'm not about to start treating Chris like a woman.

Oh, and the part where we've been diagnosing kids as young as 4 with gender dysphoria.

 

[Redeemer and Destroyer]

I don't have anything against transexuals, but I'm not about to start treating Chris like a woman.

Oh, and the part where we've been diagnosing kids as young as 4 with gender dysphoria.

I've been a bit leery about the latter as well. Kids can be very indecisive, and their opinions about something will change rapidly.

There are kids with genuine gender dysphoria that express their discomfort through screaming, tantrums, and symptoms of depression. These cases exist and should be promptly treated. But it can be tricky, trying to figure out if it is dysphoria or if it's not, especially in young minds.

 

[Alberto Balsalm]

It's currently suggested by some that gender dysphoria can only be reliably diagnosed after the onset of puberty, and the vast majority of diagnoses in children turn out to be incorrect. I think most parents of "trans children" simply have a serious case of Munchausen syndrome by proxy (which...as I just learned now, is actually categorized as child abuse).

 

[TowinKarz]

In all seriousness, I worry about when a certain disorder becomes socially popular to support, because, ironically, it gets less likely to be treated by professionals who understand it than by celebrities and trendy savior types who start diagnosing it and offering their unresearched homebrew "cures" and at worst, people who really suffer from it get drowned out by the attention seekers.

The person suffering with actual dysphoria, but who just wants to be a normal, functioning , self-contented human being and tries their best to hold down a job and pay their bills is overlooked for the independently wealthy New York-based journalist who makes it their cause and leads social media charges against "transphobia" when a school district gives a boy detention for repeatedly trying to lift up another girl's skirt in class..... making the common person dismiss the original victim as someone who just wants the attention, same as all the other mouthpieces...

Things probably aren't going to get much clearer or much better at least until the current wave of social justice dies down.

 

[Wildchild]

I guess something I've noticed/experienced and am looking for comments from other trans people?

From my experiences It seems to common for transgender people to be more inclined to identify as asexual, or not have as much interest in sex, low sex drive, etc, especially before transitioning. I don't know if this is psychological (discomfort in sex due to dysphoria), or biological in nature (hormonal imbalance, lots of studies show a biological link to transgender such as having a brain structure more similar to your preferred sex, or a hormone imbalance).

Have any other transgender people experienced this, and how/if has being on hormones changed your sexual preference?

 

[Wildchild]

What would you expect from dysphoria? Sunshine and happiness?

edit: I don't mean to sound snide even though that came off as such

Dysphoria is difficult to explain, but it sucks. Feelings of intense depression, dislike towards your body and your gender bordering on hatred. Feeling like you were born in the wrong body.

I don't know if any other transgender person experiences this, or if it's just my perception, but for me, when I look in the mirror, then masculine features appear exaggerated, much like how I imagine body-dysmorphic disorder would be like. It's gotten better since I've been on hormones, but still have a tendency to avoid looking at myself in the mirror. I'm not ugly by any means, but in my mind my body just feels wrong.

I don't know if that adequately explains the feelings of dysphoria, I would assume that it's different for every transgender person.

 

[Dudeofteenage]

Nationalism in World War 1 created a bunch of boundaries and misconceptions

That's what nationalism did during WW1, it's also what it did before WW1 and after WW1. In fact nationalism was probably weaker overall during the start of WW1 than it was at the end.

As Ernst Gellner memorably said "Part of being a nationalist is getting history wrong".

But let's not pretend that nationalism is some uniquely, or even particularly, Russian disease. Narratives of self-dependence and national primacy are at work in basically every western country.

 

[bearycool]

That's what nationalism did during WW1, it's also what it did before WW1 and after WW1. In fact nationalism was probably weaker overall during the start of WW1 than it was at the end.

As Ernst Gellner memorably said "Part of being a nationalist is getting history wrong".

But let's not pretend that nationalism is some uniquely, or even particularly, Russian disease. Narratives of self-dependence and national primacy are at work in basically every western country.

I wasn't saying it was just Russia, nor just a Russian narrative. Never said it was unique to them. Here's let go back to what I said.

"If you wish to speak universal, that is fine as that is true, but then I would just state the ideal that everyone needs to get over themselves again. It creates a psychological demarcation of people "like" you, and people "not like" you. I speak namely of Russia, as they are important in the subject of the LGBT community, and we need to just narrow our scope a little to that subject. It affects a bunch of other things, sure, but our focus is the problems it causes for LGBT people."

I am stating it as an intergral part of the dialogue, not the dialogue itself on why Russia is doing what it does. I'm not saying Russia IS nationalism and vice versa, but rather nationalism is PART OF the problem. Also, we are just keeping our focus on Russia and LGBT, while using outside source examples as logical proofs.

And going back to the first post,

"Yeah, that seems to be the case for Russia. Which just makes it more retarded in my opinion, and that sort of "self-dependence" reminds me very much of WW1 nationalism, which refuses to accept anything else but their own countries pride and view."

I am not saying it is just Russia; I just used WWI as an example as it reminded me of something LIKE IT; I didn't say Russia was it, nor was it the only problem.

I just see it as a big problem they have, along with many other big problems interconnected with it.

Anyway, this issue on distinction to me is moot, as it still just exists in the nation. Everyone could have the same disease, but that does not negate how bad the disease itself is. We can blame the world for nationalism and that would be correct, but I'm namely focusing on why it manifests to attack LGBT people in Russia. I could use other examples in other nations (like I did with WWI), but my main focus is LGBT community in Russia. I'm not calling it an unique Russia thing: just another part of the problem of a complex assortment of problems.

And the remedy is still the same: Russia needs to stop the Us vs. Them mentality. I'll further clarify that others outside of Russia need to do that too, but for now we focus on the main subject nation just to keep us focus.

 

[bearycool]

For all of you people describing dysphoria at the top below, I will just say this as a neuroscientist:

Your brain does have a gender identity, which develops as you grow up. That means it changes overtime, and it can change with puberty and other physical changes with the body and the brain growing up. It is the person's sole decision to decide who and what they are, as it is their identity. No one should force you into what they think you should be. And with all identities, you don't fully know yours until usually after the age of consent/majority. But again, it is the person's sole decision what to do and what they're comfortable with, as it is their brain chemistry and no one else. Dyspohria is a mental illness only because it affects" [the] conditions of mood, thinking, and behavior in a generally negative way." It is easily cured when one is allowed to express themselves and their identity, which is unique for each person. Just people give people that liberty and autonomy, and you fix the issue.

Parents should never force a sexuality, gender, or social role: you should just let them be kids and give them the liberty to choose what they they think is right for them and others, while showing and teaching them the consequence of each action and decision they make.

 

[Ariel]

For all of you people describing dysphoria at the top below, I will just say this as a neuroscientist:

Your brain does have a gender identity, which develops as you grow up. That means it changes overtime, and it can change with puberty and other physical changes with the body and the brain growing up. It is the person's sole decision to decide who and what they are, as it is their identity. No one should force you into what they think you should be. And with all identities, you don't fully know yours until usually after the age of consent/majority. But again, it is the person's sole decision what to do and what they're comfortable with, as it is their brain chemistry and no one else. Dyspohria is a mental illness only because it affects" [the] conditions of mood, thinking, and behavior in a generally negative way." It is easily cured when one is allowed to express themselves and their identity, which is unique for each person. Just people give people that liberty and autonomy, and you fix the issue.

Parents should never force a sexuality, gender, or social role: you should just let them be kids and give them the liberty to choose what they they think is right for them and others, while showing and teaching them the consequence of each action and decision they make.

FYI

 

[Redeemer and Destroyer]

I guess something I've noticed/experienced and am looking for comments from other trans people?

From my experiences It seems to common for transgender people to be more inclined to identify as asexual, or not have as much interest in sex, low sex drive, etc, especially before transitioning. I don't know if this is psychological (discomfort in sex due to dysphoria), or biological in nature (hormonal imbalance, lots of studies show a biological link to transgender such as having a brain structure more similar to your preferred sex, or a hormone imbalance).

Have any other transgender people experienced this, and how/if has being on hormones changed your sexual preference?

It's mostly due to dysphoria for trans folks that they don't have sex. I've never seen a trans person describe themselves as asexual due to a lack of interest because of it. Asexuals experience no sexual attraction, but can still have a sex drive. There are asexual trans people, however. As for hormones affecting that, a transman's sex drive on testosterone can spike sharply (estrogen dampens the sex drive). In the case of asexual transmen, some usually beat their meat and be done with it. But I've seen more straight transwomen and bisexual transmen than anything else. I'm somewhere in those groups, so take that as you will.

Other than that, I'm not inclined to powerlevel, but I thought I'd clarify the former half instead of the latter.

 

[KatsuKitty]

Asexuals experience no sexual attraction, but can still have a sex drive.

This is a common argument I'm going to have to dispute. The word "asexual" implies a lack of sexuality. If you call yourself "asexual" and still have a sex drive, there's nothing about the designation that makes any sense. If you're only into fetishism and not into sex with people, which I think is what the takeaway is here, a different term would be more fitting. I would further dispute that notion is innate as well, although applying the standards of depathologising homosexuality behooves me not to apply pathology to this either.

It's currently suggested by some that gender dysphoria can only be reliably diagnosed after the onset of puberty, and the vast majority of diagnoses in children turn out to be incorrect. I think most parents of "trans children" simply have a serious case of Munchausen syndrome by proxy (which...as I just learned now, is actually categorized as child abuse).

The onward march to irreversibly treat trans children earlier and earlier is a disconcerting trend. I have no reason to believe this is the way forward in this field, and it will be remembered as a rather grave mistake to trust the self-evaluation of children. Remember kids, puberty blockers and other artificial bodily intervention are not harmless.

I am inclined to believe the proper intervention for suspected trans children should be fully non-medical. Even trans adults have come to depend on physical modifications they could have likely lived without.

 

[autisticdragonkin]

This is a common argument I'm going to have to dispute. The word "asexual" implies a lack of sexuality. If you call yourself "asexual" and still have a sex drive, there's nothing about the designation that makes any sense. If you're only into fetishism and not into sex with people, which I think is what the takeaway is here, a different term would be more fitting. I would further dispute that notion is innate as well, although applying the standards of depathologising homosexuality behooves me not to apply pathology to this either.

I think that the idea behind it was that it was made off the homosexual heterosexual bisexual model without care for that it really isn't analogous in practice

 

[Dudeofteenage]

And the remedy is still the same: Russia needs to stop the Us vs. Them mentality. I'll further clarify that others outside of Russia need to do that too, but for now we focus on the main subject nation just to keep us focus.

Thing is, I don't think it's realistic to expect a single nation to stop the "Us vs them" mentality. It's a worldwide phenomenon, it can only be solved or even meaningfully discussed on a worldwide level.

 

[Redeemer and Destroyer]

If you're only into fetishism and not into sex with people, which I think is what the takeaway is here, a different term would be more fitting.

There actually is a term for that thanks to Tumblr. Autochorissexual or something like that It's basically "I fap to my waifus but real women are ugly and I would not have sex with them."

Even trans adults have come to depend on physical modifications they could have likely lived without.

I'm curious to know what you mean by this. If you're talking surgery, then that without a doubt is something trans adults could not live without.

 

[Picklepower]

I've honestly started to question how society is handling the trans issue. I have met people who think they are trans, but honestly sound confused, and I don't think its responsible to let 7 year olds pick there own gender. I'm imagining in the future, girls who are tomboyish for example, are gonna think, "Oh well I must really be trans!" and society will go, "yeah you probably are! lets get you some hormones!"

 

[TowinKarz]

I think that the idea behind it was that it was made off the homosexual heterosexual bisexual model without care for that it really isn't analogous in practice

I'll agree to that, being someone who tried living with the label for a while and never felt it accurately described me, the problem it that it's kinda grown as a catch-all placeholder of all "other" sexualities that honestly don't fit the hetero/homo/bi model from an academic standpoint, AND, everyone else's pet self-diagnosed sexuality that may or may not even need to be separate from the rest in the first place, to the political-driven SJW crap that just further subdivides those labels in the endless search to create new victims of sexual oppression. At least that's the major reason I stopped identifying with it, it was too much identity politics and not enough community/answers.

I wonder if the current push behind trans issues is just that, the "leftovers" looking for a uniting label. If so, I don't think it's very helpful.

At some point, between "heterosexual" and "John Doe" the descriptive ability of any label breaks down, John may be broadly hetero, but, there's certain people he doesn't feel sexual attraction too, and his overall level of sex drive means he's only warmly interested in those that he is attracted to...

So, in a sense, the label isn't 100% accurate to his habits, but, does he NEED a personalized one? At some point, all this refining of labels ceases to be productive to anyone....

 

[KatsuKitty]

I'm curious to know what you mean by this. If you're talking surgery, then that without a doubt is something trans adults could not live without.

Some can't.

 

[Wildchild]

Some can't.

For me, the dysphoria isn't based on my genitals, but more so based on my appearance, body, etc.

I can live without the surgery and have reservations about if it's worth the cost. I would get it, if someone paid for it if only for the fact that it would stop the production of testosterone, but it's not a priority or necessity.