Mega Man General Thread - Mega Man Battle Network Legacy Collection announced

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Mr. 0 said:
In X6, one of the Nightmare Investigators was murdered because he was excavating the area where X was discovered, which was deemed a no-go zone by the government.
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Murdered by pretty-in-pink innocent navigator Alia, no less.

BTW all of this interesting backstory was thrown into the garbage by X7. At least TEPPEN acknowledged that she killed a few reploids.
 
NERF or NOTHIN' said:
Murdered by pretty-in-pink innocent navigator Alia, no less.

BTW all of this interesting backstory was thrown into the garbage by X7. At least TEPPEN acknowledged that she killed a few reploids.
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Really gets the old noggin jogging. What was the reason for that?
 
Super Guido said:
But yeah I think the good doc just wanted to show off.
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Dr. Light's motivation was that robots and humans could live together. Which by definition kind of means you have to make very humanoid robots. So he is just kind of a robot-human utopianist.

That's why X suddenly starts talking about making an utopia in X5 and X6, he's talking like his creator. He was somehow supposed to be heavily influenced by talking to Dr. Light, which we never see him doing.
 
X Prime said:
Dr. Light's motivation was that robots and humans could live together. Which by definition kind of means you have to make very humanoid robots. So he is just kind of a robot-human utopianist.

That's why X suddenly starts talking about making an utopia in X5 and X6, he's talking like his creator. He was somehow supposed to be heavily influenced by talking to Dr. Light, which we never see him doing.
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Ah, right. I forgot about that.

That's unfortunate, but the way you put it kinda makes it seem a bit creepy. Maybe not like full-on Wily-esque influence but eh.
 
Super Guido said:
Really gets the old noggin jogging. What was the reason for that?
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Megaman Zero.

Rumor has it that Inafune had "no idea" Capcom was making X6, and once he found out, demanded a shoehorned ending where Zero encapsulates himself (ironically this is also a WWII reference, as is Zero himself, because Inafune holds a grudge as most Japs do) and this is supposedly why that specific ending is kind of blurry/pixelated and not drawn as well.

The reason for the hasty ending was that Inafune wanted the X series to lead to the Zero series, so Zero had to be locked away for 102 years for that to happen.

Ironically none of the series actually connect. They are "possible futures". Remind MMZ fans of this constantly, they abhor it.
 
Super Guido said:
Ah, right. I forgot about that.

That's unfortunate, but the way you put it kinda makes it seem a bit creepy.
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The manga Rockman-san does a decent job of going through how it would look using the Classic characters. In that one, Light goes so far as to swap Rock and Roll's bodies periodically to simulate them growing up.

At one point Roll overhears women talking shit about her because they realize she's an over-realistic robot, assuming she's someone's fetish project.
 
X Prime said:
The manga Rockman-san does a decent job of going through how it would look using the Classic characters. In that one, Light goes so far as to swap Rock and Roll's bodies periodically to simulate them growing up.

At one point Roll overhears women talking shit about her because they realize she's an over-realistic robot, assuming she's someone's fetish project.
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You don't mean swap them with each other, do you? Cuz that sounds weird.
NERF or NOTHIN' said:
Ironically none of the series actually connect. They are "possible futures". Remind MMZ fans of this constantly, they abhor it.
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Good. I can't stand the Zero series.
 
Super Guido said:
You don't mean swap them with each other, do you? Cuz that sounds weird.
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Oh no, I mean that Light makes them older and older-looking bodies to simulate their chronological age. They both look like adults at the time of the manga. Rock himself is a dentist and gets to be called "Dr. Light" as well.
 
X Prime said:
Oh no, I mean that Light makes them older and older-looking bodies to simulate their chronological age. They both look like adults at the time of the manga. Rock himself is a dentist and gets to be called "Dr. Light" as well.
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Okay, good.

Eh. Yeah I knew about the dentist thing. Iunno it's all a little weird to me. I never bothered with it because of that, but I'm not a huge classic fan to begin with.
NERF or NOTHIN' said:
The reason for the hasty ending was that Inafune wanted the X series to lead to the Zero series, so Zero had to be locked away for 102 years for that to happen.
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He also wanted X to go Maverick so Zero could kill him off, iirc.
 
X Prime said:
To explain this one, the month and day Zero wakes up happens to be Victory over Japan Day for the Japanese side.
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Is this at all related to the 403 Forbiddena song about WWII being called Zero, or is that a coincidence?
 
X Prime said:
I would strongly doubt it's a coincidence given the Zero plane being so heavily romanticized.
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Oh, is that what it's called? First time I'm hearing the name.

Then again, the most I got out of history from that time period was being forced to watch TORA!TORA!TORA! in fifth grade.
 
NERF or NOTHIN' said:
Rumor has it that Inafune had "no idea" Capcom was making X6, and once he found out, demanded a shoehorned ending where Zero encapsulates himself (ironically this is also a WWII reference, as is Zero himself, because Inafune holds a grudge as most Japs do) and this is supposedly why that specific ending is kind of blurry/pixelated and not drawn as well.

The reason for the hasty ending was that Inafune wanted the X series to lead to the Zero series, so Zero had to be locked away for 102 years for that to happen.
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Inafune had less control over the series than people seem to believe. He had all of jack shit to do with X5 outside of telling the team "wrap it up".
There's also this: https://www.rockman-corner.com/2022/01/never-before-seen-early-mega-man-zero.html
According to Pink Head, he drew this piece after Turn A Gundam aired its final episode in 2000. He was really into Syd Mead's work at the time (Mead did the mechanical designs for Turn A Gundam), and that influenced the stage's appearance. The Mead inspiration bled into the final game only a little, though. Pink Head says the design of the Transerver and some walls carry on the torch.

Pink Head's handwritten notes (translated by Midori) offer a glimpse at a some early story elements, too. The opening stage was titled "Laboratory 0", and this is where Zero interred himself as "research material" upon learning he carried the Maverick Virus. Enemies would materialize out of data screens, perhaps due to the electronic contamination. Worth a mention, but the enemy's design here veers more closely in the direction of Mega Man X, too. Neat!

Although Mr. Pink Head can't elaborate on the timeline further, it stands to reason that Mega Man Zero actually started development *at* Capcom before Inti Creates became involved (Pink Head worked at Capcom at the time; didn't jump to Inti). His comment about Turn A Gundam wrapping would place this piece around April 2000. The game itself wouldn't hit retail until April 26, 2002.

Interestingly, Mega Man X5 was also several months away at that time (November 30, 2000). In other words, Mega Man Zero's development was relatively concurrent with X5. We're not too sure when Inti Creates took point. Interesting stuff to say the least.

I don't know about you, but I have a new appreciation for Inafune's shock (and frustration) when he learned Mega Man X6 was going into production. It really puts into perspective the original plan of ending the X series with X5, then transition to Zero.

And while X6 initially threw Inafune for a loop, things worked out in the end. But, man; I really want to learn more about this pre-Inti Creates era now...
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The comments have some interesting speculation too:
It's interesting this piece predates X5 given the note about Zero voluntarily giving himself up as research material. I always assumed that was something they came up with to hastily try to connect X6 to Zero 1, but it seems that was always intended to be the plan. Which makes Zero's death in X5 honestly confusing. X6 suddenly feels necessary for the original story plan.
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I don't think the story was so firmly planned out. One of the notable things about a recently dumped build of X5 is that it has unfinished cutscene art, some obvious placeholders and some scenes just imported sketches.

Notably, one sketch placeholder shot of Zero has his body is intact. Maybe an early draft of X5's story had Zero surviving throughout, and sealing himself away following the defeat of Sigma?
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Super Guido said:
He also wanted X to go Maverick so Zero could kill him off, iirc.
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I read somewhere that was all Inti Creates and Capcom had to tardwrangle them. And that it was from an early draft of the story (Ciel was supposedly a reploid in this version).
 
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Mr. 0 said:
I read somewhere that was all Inti Creates and Capcom had to tardwrangle them. And that it was from an early draft of the story (Ciel was supposedly a reploid in this version).
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I don't recall Ciel being a Reploid. Cyber Elves were called Replisouls and she would have the ability to use them in a magical way as a Soul Summoner.

Mr. 0 said:
Inafune had less control over the series than people seem to believe. He had all of jack shit to do with X5 outside of telling the team "wrap it up".
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Inafune is a hack. Basically he takes credit for what he thinks is good and then absolves himself of responsibility over parts people criticize. A lot of self-appointed fandom "lore masters" somehow notice what you said here, while also parroting the "X5 was the planned end!", including in that article you linked.

One can't claim to have a plan when they don't actually do anything to oversee it or do not have the power to enforce it.
 
SSj_Ness said:
Man, I loved that shit. I really gotta replay these some time.
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I played through like half of MMBN1 a couple of years ago on my Vita.

I still really like that game, but man, they could have trimmed about ten hours off of the whole package and had something so much more replayable. Every single dungeon is padded to some extent. Though you can probably say that about every game in the series. You can really tell they were aiming for a solid 30 hours of playtime per game, and really had to stretch at times to reach that mark.

Shoulda been 20 hours, with more sidequests and post-game stuff.
 
Pissmaster said:
I played through like half of MMBN1 a couple of years ago on my Vita.

I still really like that game, but man, they could have trimmed about ten hours off of the whole package and had something so much more replayable. Every single dungeon is padded to some extent. Though you can probably say that about every game in the series. You can really tell they were aiming for a solid 30 hours of playtime per game, and really had to stretch at times to reach that mark.

Shoulda been 20 hours, with more sidequests and post-game stuff.
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That's definitely true. A lot of that comes from the samey looking maze-like environments, annoying puzzles, high encounter rates, and difficulty spikes.

I also don't think it's always clear how to progress the story, my replay last year (on my Vita too) came to an end when I was stumped where to go after going to your dad's office after hours or something. It has a solid foundation and is a perfect candidate for a remake.
 
X Prime said:
Oh no, I mean that Light makes them older and older-looking bodies to simulate their chronological age. They both look like adults at the time of the manga. Rock himself is a dentist and gets to be called "Dr. Light" as well.
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the future mega man deserves is a happy life doing medical work. interestingly similar to how X's best VA, mark gatha, went on to become a doctor. i think a foot doctor.
 
SSj_Ness said:
That's definitely true. A lot of that comes from the samey looking maze-like environments, annoying puzzles, high encounter rates, and difficulty spikes.

I also don't think it's always clear how to progress the story, my replay last year (on my Vita too) came to an end when I was stumped where to go after going to your dad's office after hours or something. It has a solid foundation and is a perfect candidate for a remake.
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MMBN definitely has a lot of points where the thing to do is to just run around the overworld and talk to + interact with absolutely everything until you find whatever pushes you forward. At least the environments are small to where that's not too much of a hassle
 
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