Marvel Cinematic Universe

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wtfNeedSignUp said:
Virtually every super hero commits sacrifice in some way or another whether it's risking his life or losing on his personal life. The fact that it's completely ignored when men do it (probably because they expect them to) really brings to mind the joke that, for women, empathy is a super power.
Plus Captain America sacrifices himself in his first movie, Iron Man sacrifices himself in the end of Avengers, that quick dude protects Hawkeye in Avengers 2, there's Groot. And I'm probably forgetting multiple more minor characters that die so the heroes might live.
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There's also Spider-Man with the identity retcon, he lost everyone close to him in the worst way possible.
 
So the Ms. Marvel finale ends with her being revealed to not just be a djinn but also a mutant on top of that as X-Men set-up. Everything about that's baffling. The strangest part is it's something they decided while producing the show to explain away why the rest of the family can't use the bracelet her powers come from,

 
RockVolnutt said:
So the Ms. Marvel finale ends with her being revealed to not just be a djinn but also a mutant on top of that as X-Men set-up. Everything about that's baffling. The strangest part is it's something they decided while producing the show to explain away why the rest of the family can't use the bracelet her powers come from,

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I don't think Kamala is a Djinn, that's just an example of something that couldn't be explained in the MCU from certain perspectives. They said it best with "if Thor landed in the Himalayas, he too would've been called a Djinn".
 
RockVolnutt said:
So the Ms. Marvel finale ends with her being revealed to not just be a djinn but also a mutant on top of that as X-Men set-up. Everything about that's baffling. The strangest part is it's something they decided while producing the show to explain away why the rest of the family can't use the bracelet her powers come from,

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The djin shit was a misdirect, she's
a mutie and -if they gonan try and follow the comic-the rest of the family has traces of Inhuman-now-mutant genes in them too (the Dad not enough to use and it nearly kills him later in the book, the brother can use it unconsciously in times of extreme stress, and his son, a toddler, has a powerset almost equal to Kamala's that nobody realizes).

It's as good a retcon as any, since WandaVision all but says she's a mutant that had powers before the Loki staff torture experiments, and Inhumans were just K-Mart brand "Fuck you Fox we'll make our own mutants!" cop-outs anyway.
 
KillThemCrackasBabies said:
The djin shit was a misdirect, she's
a mutie and -if they gonan try and follow the comic-the rest of the family has traces of Inhuman-now-mutant genes in them too (the Dad not enough to use and it nearly kills him later in the book, the brother can use it unconsciously in times of extreme stress, and his son, a toddler, has a powerset almost equal to Kamala's that nobody realizes).

It's as good a retcon as any, since WandaVision all but says she's a mutant that had powers before the Loki staff torture experiments, and Inhumans were just K-Mart brand "Fuck you Fox we'll make our own mutants!" cop-outs anyway.
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I don't know if that's going to pan out considering they're already praising her as the first. WandaVision's retcon might not really be mutants and more "she's born to a bloodline of magic inclined people".

I also disagree with the Inhumans being "K-Mart brand Mutants", that only works if you're looking at just the NuHumans and literally nothing else.
 
RockVolnutt said:
I don't know if that's going to pan out considering they're already praising her as the first. WandaVision's retcon might not really be mutants and more "she's born to a bloodline of magic inclined people".

I also disagree with the Inhumans being "K-Mart brand Mutants", that only works if you're looking at just the NuHumans and literally nothing else.
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Alls I know is WV was the first time I can recall the MCU using the phrase "mutation" in such a deliberate way (not counting the cut scene from the first Iron Man) and them dancing around that Wanda was magic pre-experimentation.

At any rate I'm glad this should be the end of "The mutants are all from another universe and get sucked into this one!" shit people have been wanting to see for years. I couldn't think of a worse possible explanation to go with and, obviously, it was the most popular one people had.
 
KillThemCrackasBabies said:
At any rate I'm glad this should be the end of "The mutants are all from another universe and get sucked into this one!" shit people have been wanting to see for years. I couldn't think of a worse possible explanation to go with and, obviously, it was the most popular one people had.
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Yeah, I remember people theorizing that the population of Westview would get transformed into the X-Men. Random mailman becoming Wolverine would have definitely been a great introduction of the franchise into the MCU.

Also, the Inhumans were definitely X-Men/Mutants stand-ins for a while. Marvel basically threw a hissy fit over not having the movie rights to the X-Men and tried replacing them with Inhumans. Marvel didn't like the idea of giving free advertisements (i.e. X-Men comics) for a film franchise they didn't own (iirc, they started treating the F4 like a redheaded stepchild, too, for the same reasons).
 
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Thor was a Bore. Ragnarok is one of my least favorite MCU movies though, and this was exactly what I was expecting.

Wakkatiti wants to be James Gunn, but he's completely unable to balance humor and drama. He's fine in completely or predominately humorous stories, but just like Thor 3, very dark serious moments are ruined by his lack of tonal blending. I like to imagine Asgardians in the early half of the movie, being torn to ribbons by shadow monsters, looking across the plaza, and wonder why there are two Thors, and why they are having an awkward conversation while people are dying. Wakkatiti completely destroys stakes and my engagement with the plot by having characters act retarded or not have real reactions to dire situations. Thor spends most of the movie as a simp or a retard. Bale carries the movie. The only note worthy performance, the ending with him and Thor at Eternity was good. Thor giving the kids all superpowers was fucking awful, and Shazam did it better.

With that said, I think this movie could be saved in the editing bay. Cut empowering the kids, cut Omnipotence City(it's better to have Zeus' lightning bolt unexplained than that detour). Cut the cringe play and goofy "Asgard is a tourist attraction. There are probably at least 2 dozen gags that can be cut to shave off a solid 10 minutes and lose nothing other than character destruction(Thor destroying the roof bifrosting out, only to crash and come right back, Jane doing almost the same. Jealous hammer, Jane catch phrasing) I think you could get the movie under 2 hours and nothing would be lost, except damage to the characters.
 
Tor Lugosi said:
Also, the Inhumans were definitely X-Men/Mutants stand-ins for a while. Marvel basically threw a hissy fit over not having the movie rights to the X-Men and tried replacing them with Inhumans. Marvel didn't like the idea of giving free advertisements (i.e. X-Men comics) for a film franchise they didn't own (iirc, they started treating the F4 like a redheaded stepchild, too, for the same reasons).
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This was one of the scummier things Marvel did and made me lose the few specs of respect I had for the company. X-Men had massive impact on comics and making Marvel what it is today, and almost certainly helped promote the films by having the public remember watching its shows from the past. Going full corporate and trying to remove any reference to X-Men because it will "aid the enemy" shows that there's no one there that cares anymore.
 
wtfNeedSignUp said:
This was one of the scummier things Marvel did and made me lose the few specs of respect I had for the company. X-Men had massive impact on comics and making Marvel what it is today, and almost certainly helped promote the films by having the public remember watching its shows from the past. Going full corporate and trying to remove any reference to X-Men because it will "aid the enemy" shows that there's no one there that cares anymore.
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I feel that was more of a Disney thing since Disney went full apeshit in any sort of media that had the X-Men involved like how they fucked over Marvel vs Capcom infinite.
 
alright fine said:
Raimi's Spiderman has the humor of an amiable nerd who loves the source material warts and all. The MCU mostly has the snotty, embarrassed snarkiness of a cheerleading squad stuck sitting with the loser kids on the bus over a field trip.
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What I don't get is that Kevin Feige is supposedly a big fan of the comics (and it's one of the reasons fanboys tout for the MCU's success), yet he doesn't seem to have a problem with the kind of bathos that is prevalent in the MCU that comes off as contemptuous of the source material. Was it all just a ruse?
 
Basic Blonde Boy said:
When I think of camp, the most perfect example to me is Adam West's Batman. That show is incredibly stupid but West holds a straight face through it all and talks with a large amount of confidence. The show itself has confidence that the audience will pick up on the fact that it is all one large joke.

In comparison, the MCU does this thing where it seems to want to be taken seriously, but feels the need to shit itself every other scene as to not be too serious. It wants to have its cake and eat it too, being both a cinematic experience and one large comedy. By the end it is neither. It has no confidence in itself or the audience to handle the material, which is the series greatest flaw.

Adam West Batman may be inaccurate to its source material in many ways, but damn does it have confidence in what it made. The MCU doesn't. It took the wrong lessons from Guardians as that film actually did have confidence and knew when to be a joke or serious.
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Funny thing, that. I watched the Batman movie a long time ago, and I loved it. The movie is absolutely ridiculous, with Adam West being attacked by rubber sharks that need to be repelled by Bat Shark Repellent...on the Bat Ladder....attached to the Bat Copter. The villains "dehydrate" themselves and turn into dust to infiltrate the Batcave, and even though that's fucking ridiculous and insane, that's exactly the same deduction Adam West Batman draws from the situation. It was just a funny movie that played it loose without any sense of urgency.

The MCU doesn't do the same thing. They blow up a planet with people on it, but this character made a joke about it so please laugh. The Dark World is an apt summary of the MCU in my opinion. The foundation may not be for everyone, but the potential is there for great storytelling and improvement against a tested formula. Then the Jokes Department (AKA Kat Dennings) walks on-screen and in a couple of minutes there's no illusion that this is going to be anything but shit.

Lensherr said:
What I don't get is that Kevin Feige is supposedly a big fan of the comics (and it's one of the reasons fanboys tout for the MCU's success), yet he doesn't seem to have a problem with the kind of bathos that is prevalent in the MCU that comes off as contemptuous of the source material. Was it all just a ruse?
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I think it's less of a "ruse" and more the casualty of being a consistent success for over a decade and having both wealth and unending legions of yesmen lining up to lick your asshole the entire time. It eventually gets to your head, and when even your least favourite projects (he's got to have one) turn into booming successes you start thinking you can do no wrong.
 
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That Chris Guy said:
. Then the Jokes Department (AKA Kat Dennings) walks on-screen and in a couple of minutes there's no illusion that this is going to be anything but shit.
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That Chris Guy said:
And an unending legions of yesmen lining up to lick your asshole the entire time. It eventually gets to your head,
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I'd lick Kat Dennings asshole ngl
 
Lensherr said:
What I don't get is that Kevin Feige is supposedly a big fan of the comics (and it's one of the reasons fanboys tout for the MCU's success), yet he doesn't seem to have a problem with the kind of bathos that is prevalent in the MCU that comes off as contemptuous of the source material. Was it all just a ruse?
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I don't know enough to comment about Feige's attachment to the comics but I think the caricature of him as this ultra fanboy is a product of that cargo cult like attitude MCU fans have towards the source material and is as fabricated as the meme about Marvel Studios actually planning years in advance. Even if he was, speaking as somebody who's read most of their published material myself, he's not going to have attachment for literally every corner of the universe. It's safe to assume he was never big into any of the cosmic stuff for example considering that got hit the hardest with MCU-isms and comedy is very much the opposite of the tone it should have. Him being into Captain America and Iron Man is more likely considering they didn't get mangled as badly.

Sure, he is the guy who snuck in comics onto the set of the first X-Men movie and is responsible for it for having more comic influences than it otherwise would have but who knows. There's also the question about how much control he actually has on individual projects which I'm not entirely clear on.
 
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