Marvel Cinematic Universe

[crunchy bits are the best]

Barring the faded white skull, Ray Stevenson's Punisher got the look and the accurate comic book origins to boot. Thomas Jane's version comes second.

What the hell happened to Jon Berthal's Punisher? I don't remember the freaking Punisher himself having a lot of hang-ups about his vigilantism.

 

[Lion of Yehuda]

It's such a fucking crime that Ray Stevenson was taken from us like that. Imagine your last career credit being fucking Assholeka. Lord have mercy.

 

[dick brain]

Just have him hunt criminals for the love of the game, Marvel, that's what he's supposed to do. One origin story is fine, why keep running it over and over?

What the hell happened to Jon Berthal's Punisher? I don't remember the freaking Punisher himself having a lot of hang-ups about his vigilantism.

It's because White Man With A Gun = Bad and if you are White Man With A Gun you are either evil, broken or stupid and need fixing or educating. The existence of a sane and intelligent White Man With A Gun who is not evil is incompatible with the intelligentsia worldview, so he has to be broken or stupid, and the story has to be about him getting fixed or educated. The real villain isn't criminals, it's his desire to be White Man With A Gun, and the story is about him overcoming that in himself and being redeemed by no longer wanting or needing to be White Man With A Gun. Problem is that doesn't leave them any other story to tell -- he can't be a Good Guy while still being White Man With A Gun, but he can't be White Man With A Gun while being a Good Guy. So they just keep telling the same story over and over.

Or that's my assumption anyway, I'm not watching that shit.

 

[Foltest]

Watching Jessica Jones.
It makes me miss the Netflix era of the marvel tv shows. Solid writing, acting and so on.
I love the concept of the purple man.
Just such a slimy bastard who use his powers for his own gain.

 

[Problematic User Forever]

What the hell happened to Jon Berthal's Punisher? I don't remember the freaking Punisher himself having a lot of hang-ups about his vigilantism.

It's a combination of Bernthals obsession with the military/law enforcement and modern Marvel/Disney having so many hangups over The Punisher being "problematic".

Bernthal love larping as a soldier. He saw some Punisher Skull patches and got the idea that every single soldier has some deep fucking connection with The Punisher when really like 95% of them just think the skull looks bad ass.

So now he has this narcissistic idea that his role as the Punisher makes him some important advocate for veterans and police. He's the one that has always pushed for PTSD to have such a focus in the shows.

Disney has an issue with the Punisher being "problematic". Him just ruthlessly executing his mission of killing criminals makes them uncomfortable, so they use the PTSD angle to make Frank constantly question what he is doing in his MCU outings in an attempt to make him more sympathetic and less scary.

When he's the "villain" in Daredevil Season 2, he's proudly proclaiming that he loves killing criminals. When he's the protagonist, he has to constantly be reminded that it was really the government that killed his family, he has to be constantly questioning himself and having schizo PTSD moments, he has to have veteran friends telling him to get help and get counciling, etc. etc. because they can't have people getting the idea that maybe criminal pieces of shit should be shot in the head.

It's honestly surprising that the big action set piece is Frank just murdering a bunch of piece of shit criminals who are causing mass destruction and mayhem. Kinda weird that most of them are white itallians (do they really have housing projects like that in Little Italy/Sicily or whatever?) but at least he's actually killing piece of shit criminals for once.

 

[crunchy bits are the best]

It's a combination of Bernthals obsession with the military/law enforcement and modern Marvel/Disney having so many hangups over The Punisher being "problematic".

Bernthal love larping as a soldier. He saw some Punisher Skull patches and got the idea that every single soldier has some deep fucking connection with The Punisher when really like 95% of them just think the skull looks bad ass.

So now he has this narcissistic idea that his role as the Punisher makes him some important advocate for veterans and police. He's the one that has always pushed for PTSD to have such a focus in the shows.

Disney has an issue with the Punisher being "problematic". Him just ruthlessly executing his mission of killing criminals makes them uncomfortable, so they use the PTSD angle to make Frank constantly question what he is doing in his MCU outings in an attempt to make him more sympathetic and less scary.

When he's the "villain" in Daredevil Season 2, he's proudly proclaiming that he loves killing criminals. When he's the protagonist, he has to constantly be reminded that it was really the government that killed his family, he has to be constantly questioning himself and having schizo PTSD moments, he has to have veteran friends telling him to get help and get counciling, etc. etc. because they can't have people getting the idea that maybe criminal pieces of shit should be shot in the head.

It's honestly surprising that the big action set piece is Frank just murdering a bunch of piece of shit criminals who are causing mass destruction and mayhem. Kinda weird that most of them are white itallians (do they really have housing projects like that in Little Italy/Sicily or whatever?) but at least he's actually killing piece of shit criminals for once.

The concept of the Punisher is so simple (war vet realizes that the law failed him so he goes around killing those criminals that can't be touched instead) yet of course, Disney has to tweak the character to fit to their standards. Even I cringed upon looking at the Punisher's personality in that Marvel Rivals game wherein he's now jealous of Rocket Raccoon's guns and openly flirts with another female character who obviously wants to be left alone despite having loved his dead family.

 

[PrincessHomura]

Even I cringed upon looking at the Punisher's personality in that Marvel Rivals game wherein he's now jealous of Rocket Raccoon's guns and openly flirts with another female character who obviously wants to be left alone despite having loved his dead family.

Not sure who you're talking about regarding him flirting, but his personality in Marvel Rivals in general is quite on point with the character. One of his key lines in the game is that he hates nuance, another one is "I don't listen to music, I punish criminals". I looked up the Rocket Raccoon quote you're talking about and that's a very weird way to take offense to a harmless joke line. He has two notable interactions with Rocket Raccoon, the first one is this:

• Rocket Raccoon: Hey, I like your firearms. Never thought I'd find someone with the same taste on this backward planet.
• The Punisher: Yeah? What do you got in your trash can?
• Rocket Raccoon: Let's see… Ion turret, photon reaction chaingun, mini black hole.
• The Punisher: War Journal entry: This world is officially sick. A talking raccoon's got better guns than me.

I don't know how you can get annoyed at that one, to be honest. The second one again emphasizes Frank as a character quite well:

• Rocket Raccoon: Hey, I saw that turret thing you do. How much you want for it?
• The Punisher: Not for sale.
• Rocket Raccoon: What, are you kidding? Everything's for sale!
• The Punisher: Maybe for other people. Not for me.

I agree about the core thing which is that Disney keeps tweaking The Punisher because he's "problematic", but I have no idea how you're getting that from Marvel Rivals of all projects.

 

[God of Nothing]

Jon did help write the special, so this is basically his vision for the character. Thankfully once that part was over it didn't rear its head again. A little bit is fine for character purposes, but we know why we like Punisher as a character and it's not just the family issues. It's the righteous fury.

Jon Bernthal never looked the part. As much a ginzo greaseball guinea wop as Frank Castiglione was (yes that's his real name), his facial features were never that daunting and garish, even under Ennis. The recent rabbinical beard as well is a terrible look on him, and why is he not always wearing the skull? Jane, Stevenson, even fucking Lundgren nailed the Punisher look, but to me, Bernthal just falls flat.

well, yeah
he's literally a jew

Nah, Bernthal fucking sucks. He has gotten more creative control with each consecutive outing and it is why there has been such a downward trajectory since Daredevil Season 2.

Bernthal is the epitome of the Punisher fan who just likes the skull and has a boner for Chris Kyle. It's why he is constantly going on about cops and soldiers whenever he has to talk about how important The Punisher is to him and why there has always been a heavy PTSD aspect to his version of the character.

is anyone surprised?

 

[Beelzebub's Lawyer]

I used to love the Punisher comic books as a kid.
My favorite ones are the heroes who don't have powers, it makes it exciting to see them fight because they can die from a single bullet.

I don't remember him ever being traumatized by the war. If anything, I remember a lot of the creators being influenced by Commando with Arnold.
Yeah, he retired from murdering dudes in foreign nations but that was just to start a family, not because he had PTSD, and once the family got taken away from him, he started murdering dudes in his own nation.
That's what I would do if i was making a Punisher movie/show, make him a modern version of John Matrix.

 

[God of Nothing]

I used to love the Punisher comic books as a kid.
My favorite ones are the heroes who don't have powers, it makes it exciting to see them fight because they can die from a single bullet.

I don't remember him ever being traumatized by the war. If anything, I remember a lot of the creators being influenced by Commando with Arnold.
Yeah, he retired from murdering dudes in foreign nations but that was just to start a family, not because he had PTSD, and once the family got taken away from him, he started murdering dudes in his own nation.
That's what I would do if i was making a Punisher movie/show, make him a modern version of John Matrix.

In his intro season, he literally says it's disrespectful to use shell shock as an excuse for what he's done because he clearly doesn't have it.
But I see they're picking and choosing what parts of Daredevil actually happened because the entire Disney plot of thing is utterly fucking retarded, never mind how incompatible it is

 

[dick brain]

When he's the protagonist, he has to constantly be reminded that it was really the government that killed his family, he has to be constantly questioning himself and having schizo PTSD moments, he has to have veteran friends telling him to get help and get counciling, etc. etc. because they can't have people getting the idea that maybe criminal pieces of shit should be shot in the head.

Yeah, just members of the government.

Actually let's see, when did DDS2 -- in which the vigilante white man with a gun exclusively killing criminals, in this instance personified metaphor for capital punishment, policing and the second amendment, is portrayed as the bad guy -- air? 2016. Election year, Democratic control.
And then the next time we see him in The Punisher Season 1, where suddenly he is portrayed as a sympathetic figure justly killing corrupt and conspiratorial members of the American government? 2017, after the Republican candidate takes office, amid claims of Russian election interference.
The next time we see him he's a reluctant hero against more corrupt politicians, Russians and a walking caricature of a rural conservative Christian white supremacist (among a clusterfuck of other things). 2019. Hey, didn't Far Cry 5 come out around this time too?
Then in 2020 a Democrat candidate gets elected through what was unanimously agreed to be a fair and unbiased democratic election with no interference, a vigilante white man with a gun defends himself from a horde of violent criminals, and suddenly there's no mention of this previously lionized white man with a gun who fights back against criminals and corrupt governments until the next time a Republican candidate is elected. Wow, how about that. That's interesting. In fairness the rights were changing hands and there were far bigger works of fiction being managed at this time. Maybe they thought it would be distasteful to draw a parallel or make any kind of commentary on vigilante white men with guns due to current events at the time.
Then in 2025 after multiple assassination attempts from white men with guns the Republican candidate takes office again and suddenly white man vigilante with a gun who kills government officials is back on the table wow. Surely this would not precipitate any other incidents in which a white man with a gun takes it upon himself to kill a prominent figure in the political sphere.

I will stop shitting up the thread sperging about how these franchises are propaganda when it stops being true.

It's honestly surprising that the big action set piece is Frank just murdering a bunch of piece of shit criminals who are causing mass destruction and mayhem.

Maybe I will watch it after all.

 

[Shartavius]

I will stop shitting up the thread sperging about how these franchises are propaganda when it stops being true.

Propaganda? In *my* Netflix and Disney+?

 

[Beelzebub's Lawyer]

I will stop shitting up the thread sperging about how these franchises are propaganda when it stops being true.

You want to talk about propaganda? Here you fucking go:

Ah yes, the ever spreading problem of young white men attacking old black people on the streets for no reason.
This happens all the time, I can't go one day without reading about it on the new.... oh wait, it's actually young niggers attacking old white people all the time.
My bad, I got confused.

 

[Leaf Wage Slave Jr]

Not sure who you're talking about regarding him flirting, but his personality in Marvel Rivals in general is quite on point with the character.

In fairness todays the first time I’ve heard the line in question, it’s an interaction with Elsa Bloodstone - he calls her “his kind of broad” and that he’d be willing to “let her raid his armory”

To which even Elsa has to ask if that’s a euphemism, I was just trying not to laugh at how hilariously blunt that was.

 

[Nick Obre]

In fairness todays the first time I’ve heard the line in question, it’s an interaction with Elsa Bloodstone - he calls her “his kind of broad” and that he’d be willing to “let her raid his armory”

To which even Elsa has to ask if that’s a euphemism, I was just trying not to laugh at how hilariously blunt that was.

Well they were kind of a thing during Frankencastle, so

 

[Heavy Rainfall2]

I really liked One Last Kill. Wish it was a movie, but after he starts killing people, he never stops for like an hour. I do sorta agree with some criticisms of Bernthal's Punisher but I'm a total mark for Punisher in general.

Also if you haven't seen Punisher: War Zone, watch it. It's retarded but great

 

[Leaf Wage Slave Jr]

Also if you haven't seen Punisher: War Zone, watch it. It's retarded but great

Punisher: War Zone at least knows that it’s fucking dumb and embraces it, and I will shill it as a guilty pleasure.

Also it has arguably the funniest kill I’ve ever seen, and I laugh every time I see it.

 

[Beelzebub's Lawyer]

Warzone is in my top 5 Marvel movies.
Technically, the 2004 Punisher is a better movie but it's not as fun, aside from the parts where The Russian and Harry Thornton show up.
Warzone is silly and over the top, just the way I like it.
Also, it was directed by a woman who is a former world karate champion and a European kickboxing champion and that makes it cooler.

 

[crunchy bits are the best]

Punisher: War Zone at least knows that it’s fucking dumb and embraces it, and I will shill it as a guilty pleasure.

Also it has arguably the funniest kill I’ve ever seen, and I laugh every time I see it.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=YF28ceFJJ3A

Punisher War Zone is a guilty pleasure of mine, it really tried to recreate the comic book stuff such as the killing of a Mafia family and the parkour scene. Ray Stevenson's Punisher reminded me of those old Punisher comics as a kid plus his origins were more or less accurate to the comics itself.