The Hajnal line is a line drawn from Triest to St. Petersburg which is used as a rough boundary to determine cultural marriage patterns, the western side has a lower rate and later occurance of marriages with nuclear families whereas the eastern side generally had earlier marriages and extended family households.
KF: “Society is fucked, especially for young people, but if you think that is affecting your ability to have a successful relationship in any way you’re a faggot you should kill himself lmao”
Society could reset but for that it needs to rid itself of its dregs first. And that includes junkies, bums, prison cell dwellers, BPD people and other unproductive species.
i dont think incel behavoir is a historical norm at the rates seen today. certianly every society has its fringes, and in western countries the average for people not marrying, which is distinct from never having sex, is about 30% historically from what i understand. Now some of those are certainly confirmed bachelor types that just weren't interested in getting hitched, but I won't pretend that there were never unfuckable retards either. So for some of you, your chances are not great, but if most of you really did some soul searching, introspection, and lived in the world as it is and not the one you want you can most certainly find a gal who will make you happy. Even if you have some severe physical deformity not all hope is lost.
I truly believe the primary factor is pornsickness. It encourages antisocial behavior and can contributed to a warped view of the world, a kind of sexual materialism. Another factor is that baby boomers were the most sexually promiscous generation maybe ever, so these people may have passed a very warped view of sexual relations on. Sexual promiscuity has only trended downward since then, which has led to a kind of fomo eg " grandpa had a harem of whores, dad had a threesome a couple times, and here I am with just my right hand, I might as well give up."
There is no miracle cure since everyone's mind and they're reasons for identifying as an incel are different, but an important factor seems to be having a very negative outlook on the world and life and thinking that having access to a vagina will cure that. Which touches on another problem, incels seem much more focused on the act of sex itself and have little interest in having a relationship with a woman. This is apparent to anyone you speak to and is generally contenptable. I assume the counter argument is that people like Andrew Tate speak in the same manner and he has lots of sex, consider that Andrew Tate is a literal pimp and whoremonger, is that really the kind of person you want to be? A wicked abuser that schemes and manipulates people for your own benefit? That is quite literally sociopathic behavior and people may not be able to articulate it but on a subconscious level it is apparent that that is a goal for you and find it contemptible. To most people this is what you sound like, not Andrew Tate
So the cure is, again, serious introspection and contemplation of world view. Talking to other human beings in real life may help if you have good friends.
Prevention? Ban pornography and reinvent community in the United States since it is entirely dead.
My theory is the death of "courting." It is extremely easy to become romantically reserved in today's Western Society. A lot of societal pressure is put on teenagers to say and do the right things. Stories of rape accusations and social shunning circulate every high school campus. I can't think of a more socially risky endeavor than trying to court a boyfriend or girlfriend in today's landscape. The death of romance has led to two extremes, Dating Apps for casual hookups, and reserved purism. Those who are physically attractive or had a fluke sexual experience early in life are primed to use Dating Apps to sate their sexual appetite, and those who are too scared to say the wrong thing or be called a rapist become romantic recluses who are extremely picky and keep waiting for the perfect moment like in a movie.
As this process accelerates, the onus is put on Men to break the mold, and make the first move. Therefore an entire decade of social pressure is on the man's back to say and do the right thing to secure a relationship. Those who have pursued love and taken the first step know it takes bravery. It's like jumping off a cliff. As time goes on and society gets more anti-masculine, the cliff gets higher and higher, and more dangerous. Men could be risking their entire high school social life, college prospects, or career if a woman rejects you and calls you a creep. Some even accept your advances and later decide they actually didn't like you, condemning you forever. What a trip! Women have the luxury (by design or luck) of still being able to take advantage of tradition, and be asked out on the first date, instead of vice-versa. Another double standard of today's dating world where women deny the patriarchal stereotypes of dating but rest on tradition and expect suitors to come calling.
Thus, incels come to be. Men who are reacting to the romantic suppression of the modern day. These men have had no opportunity to grow or experiment romantically, no opportunity to try and fail numerous times (without serious shaming) towards courting a woman. They were never given a fair chance like their father or grandfather, and are left to react to the loud and dumb stories from the sexually promiscuous who blast out their degenerate lifestyle to social media. These men are stuck in a negative feedback loop, and have ample cherries to pick and point to when explaining why the world is fucked and all women are whores. In reality, many women are in the same boat, but can manipulate things such as makeup and clothing to raise themselves up socially and be picked out by a good looking or confident man. These men have usually been on the dating/sexual field for a while and have an advantage over others.
This whole phenomenon is social conditioning, the incels are stuck in a rut. They feel kinship with other "losers" and their bubble gets worse and worse over time. But asking them to break from the mold is a hard ask, it would be like asking any KF member to read out a few of their posts at work. Society is cruel and has turned their back on them. Put this up against the waves of feminism shitting all over traditional masculinity, and castrating male role models. Men used to look up to macho athletes and wrestlers, now they have Elon Musk, Andrew Tate, and the "modern" athlete who is just a face for TV ads. Women are still getting a foothold in the social sphere, able to make demands and have them met, the feminist tenets seek to destroy the very men that used to woo them in the first place, biologically confidence and masculinity are attractive. The men "nice" enough to buy into feminism or fear its consequences are now emasculated and have no tools to court at all. Consider the death of "community" in the West as well, there are no longer normal places where most people gather and meet one another. You have to make a conscious effort to create that space in your life now.
The solution lies with both genders, one cannot expect a revolution in the dating sphere if only one gender is trying to make change.
For Men: They need to understand that good, honest women are out there. City girls are raised by shitty parents who spoil them and never teach them responsibility, so avoid city girls like the plague. Most city girls use social media, so their stories are heard more often. Go on vacation somewhere with country folk who had to work as children towards something greater. These women will support you for life if you treat them right. Understand that men only get more attractive as they get older. An older, responsible man with a career, nice clothes, and his shit together is like a supermodel to women (with good taste, which are the ones you WANT to attract.) So do not doompost about it being over even if you are in your 30's. You have so, so much time to get shit together because of societal norms set in place long ago (thanks gramps.) Understand what attracts a woman. I see so many men baffled that atypical (by masculine standards?) men are found so attractive by women. This can give you hope, a good woman is a sentimental and romantic sort, they value what's inside as much as outside.
For Women: Reject what you are being told by social media and girl influencers. Double check who you are getting dating advice from. Understand that good men come in many forms, and don't be afraid to put out bigger hints. Watch or read things FROM men who can explain what hints men understand. Put your best foot forward and don't put the entirety of the courting process on men. Stop shitting on masculinity, you are shooting yourselves in the foot by mocking the dating pool you have historically relied on and been attracted to. Making better, sincere and strong men is also something women can control. Choose good mates who exhibit positive masculine tendencies, and not just brute-force confidence. Lastly, stop discriminating towards height and income to an insane degree. Have the clairvoyance to appreciate who YOU are, what you make, how tall you are. Your standards are your own, but a man's income can change, and chasing tall chads and expecting the impossible will just leave you burnt out and alone by your 30s when these typically hyper-sexual tall specimen are done having fun and settle down with some woman.
Both genders need to believe in the love of the past, the romance and structure that got us where we are today. Fucking around and making drastic changes obviously has insane consequences.
Did you really just say that cities are worse places for men to find GF's? That's a massive generalization with a grain of truth to it. Tech hubs like the Bay Area/Seattle are turbo sausagefests and cities like LA that are all about glamor and fame are also shit places for average men to date, sure. But a lot of smaller cities and the countryside are notorious for having nothing for young adults to do, as well as imbalanced gender ratios in some cases. Also people in those places tend to marry and have kids young and that's where the timepill and agepill come into play. You gotta do your research and play your geographic cards just right if you're like me, and the clock never stops ticking.
If you missed out on life in your early 20's, you can still turn it around but the insecurity of being a late bloomer in a country full of early bloomers never goes away. Men can become attractive providers later in life, sure, but that's cucked love. I'd rather be single for life than "loved" just for my resources or ability to be a stepdad. Don't act like the dating pool after 30, hell in some places after 25 is just a wasteland of washed up, ran through single parents and turbo crazies. You gotta sift through so much human detritus before you find someone decent.
Did you really just say that cities are worse places for men to find GF's? That's a massive generalization with a grain of truth to it. Tech hubs like the Bay Area/Seattle are turbo sausagefests and cities like LA that are all about glamor and fame are also shit places for average men to date, sure. But a lot of smaller cities and the countryside are notorious for having nothing for young adults to do, as well as imbalanced gender ratios in some cases. Also people in those places tend to marry and have kids young and that's where the timepill and agepill come into play. You gotta do your research and play your geographic cards just right if you're like me, and the clock never stops ticking.
If you missed out on life in your early 20's, you can still turn it around but the insecurity of being a late bloomer in a country full of early bloomers never goes away. Men can become attractive providers later in life, sure, but that's cucked love. I'd rather be single for life than "loved" just for my resources or ability to be a stepdad. Don't act like the dating pool after 30, hell in some places after 25 is just a wasteland of washed up, ran through single parents and turbo crazies. You gotta sift through so much human detritus before you find someone decent.
I see where you are coming from, I am framing the problem in a different way based on my experience/preferences. Where I grew up, "cities" mean metropolitan areas with a large population and liberalism in full swing. There are many of these, and it's where a ton of people live, or flock to in their youth to pursue high pay jobs, and try to find love.
I'm of the opinion that in order for relationships to actually work, classic gender roles need to be upheld. Men need to lead the family and women need to nurture and support the family.
In the case of cities, I look at all the potential demographics of women available in the dating pool. White women and most 2nd generation immigrant + women are the biggest purveyors of liberal politics. The chance you find one willing to conform to gender roles in a relationship grow smaller every generation.
In the case of age and the age pill, I still stand by what I said. Men are attractive well past their 30s to women. They value security and power/wealth. It's not just being a provider it's being a guide and a rock in her life. I also don't assume that every relationship needs to be with someone of the same age. If rural women are getting married sooner, then find one in her early to mid 20s who is still not married. Men have this weird discomfort with age gap relationships, when many women are completely comfortable marrying someone ten years older than them.
I see where you are coming from, I am framing the problem in a different way based on my experience/preferences. Where I grew up, "cities" mean metropolitan areas with a large population and liberalism in full swing. There are many of these, and it's where a ton of people live, or flock to in their youth to pursue high pay jobs, and try to find love.
I think that really depends on the country that you are in. My experiences in EE's countryside have been terrible and despite it being a cliché to complain about, it really is a hive of degeneracy, decay and alcoholism compared to even mid-size cities in those countries. Only regions with the highest HDI in the world have a cozy countryside such as in the Benelux, Scandinavia, and the Swiss and Austrian Alps in my experience. I warn everyone against believing in the "trad unspoiled countryside in the 3rd world" myth because you will fuck up your life.
I think that really depends on the country that you are in. My experiences in EE's countryside have been terrible and despite it being a cliché to complain about, it really is a hive of degeneracy, decay and alcoholism compared to even mid-size cities in those countries. Only regions with the highest HDI in the world have a cozy countryside such as in the Benelux, Scandinavia, and the Swiss and Austrian Alps in my experience. I warn everyone against believing in the "trad unspoiled countryside in the 3rd world" myth because you will fuck up your life.
Obviously it's going to be very different in the European countries than in America or the Anglosphere countries. Canadians would probably benefit getting the fuck out of the cities because of the migrants and criminally inflated housing costs, but my own worldview is very America centric. In my experience, small towns in America are where opportunity goes to die. You get "It's a big club and you ain't in it" vibes and even if you manage to snag a decent job, making friends is damn near impossible because everyone else "has theirs" and they aren't willing to help or share. Women have it easier with relationships, because the pool of decent, dateable women in these places is tiny, but even then they'll also struggle to make friends. But hey, at least the housing is cheap if you don't mind a life of terminally online loneliness.
Obviously it's going to be very different in the European countries than in America or the Anglosphere countries. Canadians would probably benefit getting the fuck out of the cities because of the migrants and criminally inflated housing costs, but my own worldview is very America centric. In my experience, small towns in America are where opportunity goes to die. You get "It's a big club and you ain't in it" vibes and even if you manage to snag a decent job, making friends is damn near impossible because everyone else "has theirs" and they aren't willing to help or share. Women have it easier with relationships, because the pool of decent, dateable women in these places is tiny, but even then they'll also struggle to make friends. But hey, at least the housing is cheap if you don't mind a life of terminally online loneliness.
I think that really depends on the country that you are in. My experiences in EE's countryside have been terrible and despite it being a cliché to complain about, it really is a hive of degeneracy, decay and alcoholism compared to even mid-size cities in those countries. Only regions with the highest HDI in the world have a cozy countryside such as in the Benelux, Scandinavia, and the Swiss and Austrian Alps in my experience. I warn everyone against believing in the "trad unspoiled countryside in the 3rd world" myth because you will fuck up your life.
The suburbs and exurbs of larger cities aren't that bad here in America but you gotta worry about gentrification pricing you out. Because that shit affects white people too if you're not a rich techbro.
I recently listened to that "Art of Seduction" Audiobook that was recommended here:
Yes it's a great book, and yes it has some retarded takes due to it being written by a 1959 born Boomer Libtard.
I would give out a warning though:
It might make you very depressed since it's a reminder just how superficiall and dishonest social interactions can be and how much exploitation of psycological weaknesses can be done.
Just like watching "the century of the self" by Adam Curtis for the first time, it will hit you hard with some very unpleasant thruths about the minds of lots of people.
Read/listen to it at your own discrecion.
Before we even talk about how to converse and seduce, the blatant issue is that people aren't even on a front to converse. Even the hottest socially capable broads are only using dating apps in between dunking box wine and #working #girlboss. When would a modern single person with a career find themselves in a space to talk with strangers? Going to single clubs was a legitimate strategy a decade or two ago, but now they won't even entertain a conversation if they aren't immediately wet. I'd love to take a walk on a sunday morning in the park and be open to say hi to strangers but, who else would be? Alcoholics, the elderly and nutjobs.
People take for granted what the whole "my wife is my best friend" shit; you need to be friends with things to talk about. That's how someone "below your league" (who is totally in your league you egotistical twat) turns out to be interesting and worthwhile. What do people looking for love talk about? Love. And lack of it. And dating. I see someone I'd like to talk to and their bio is "Uhh this one video game and these books" so you get an idea of what to talk about. "I'm a (job) who love (alcohol)" isn't, yet she's the 9/10 you should hunt for.
Good worthwhile people will drag their nuts through glass for a conversation on their phone with someone they wouldn't talk to in real life cause of how boring and non-rizzworthy they are. It's as if people lose all their accumulated experience with people because a selfless angel "matched" you. If everyone grew a spine and knew their worth, the broads and dudebrahs would automatically have to step up.
I recently listened to that "Art of Seduction" Audiobook that was recommended here:
Yes it's a great book, and yes it has some retarded takes due to it being written by a 1959 born Boomer Libtard.
I would give out a warning though:
It might make you very depressed since it's a reminder just how superficiall and dishonest social interactions can be and how much exploitation of psycological weaknesses can be done.
Just like watching "the century of the self" by Adam Curtis for the first time, it will hit you hard with some very unpleasant thruths about the minds of lots of people.
Read/listen to it at your own discrecion.
Stop trying to give incels advice on getting laid. Preventing retards from breeding and filling the world with more retards is, to quote many a clickbait headline, A Good Thing™.
Modern relationships aren't usually fulfilling anyway. At least one of the people involved is going to be constantly living a second life on their phone, making the other party feel increasingly ignored and bitter.
It's not so much about giving advice as it is about the fact that they won't accept even the simplest pieces. A lot of them have been given participation medals and told they're special and that there's someone out there for them no matter what, and now that the world has hit them in the face with the brass knuckles of reality, they don't know how to handle anything.
Usually it's their entire lives that are a mess, it just so happens that dating is the subject of focus for so many because of their primitive monkey brains.
Maybe because it’s almost always trite, unhelpful bullshit that’s spouted endlessly, and whenever it isn’t swallowed mindlessly they’re told they don’t want to get better and should just die.
Maybe because it’s almost always trite, unhelpful bullshit that’s spouted endlessly, and whenever it isn’t swallowed mindlessly they’re told they don’t want to get better and should just die.
I've been doing a pair sport with a nice girl for the past few weeks and have decided to try and move to 'the next stage' by kissing her when we meet tomorrow. It would be the first time for me as a 20-something-yo and honestly I'm scared shitless.
Pray for a fellow 'tist kiwibros. I think this time I just might break the curse.
