Incel and Lonely Men Debate thread - Defend men giving up or tell them otherwise

[cybertoaster]

40-year-old virgins are not common now either.

YET...

Those comedy portrayals would fall flat if people hadn't met people like that day-to-day.

I didn't know anyone like that IRL ATT and still got the joke, everybody did, because the situation is funny on its own. Of course a lot of stuff is funny when its not happening to you...

Most people 20 years ago knew of someone --a coworker, a cousin or a friend of a friend-- who for whatever reason was unable to lose their virginity.

I didn't, those kind of guys tend to drop off the face of earth after college, again most people don't like being around what they perceive to be a "creepy loser".

You may have been a middle school kid who used the meme ironically

Nope, late teens, didn't care about it.

but there were adult men who it was quite real for and shared those memes as a coping mechanism.

And that's cringe,

. This number has had peaks and valleys before. I don't think you can assume it's just going to keep going up into infinity.

Look at that graphic, the peak we're going thru now its completely unprecedented.

The fact that portrayals in pop culture were often comedic in nature is really irrelevant.

I just want to point out that we were just talking about how adult virgin men were portrayed as comedic characters ripe for ridicule 20-30 years ago, and here you are saying the media would have been far more forgiving toward those men back then.

Here's the key difference you're not seeing: they were not bad guys, both the simpsons and 40yr virgin tried to uplift the character many times, they were even rooting for them to finally get their shit together specially the later. Today no media would portray an incel as anything but a disgusting wretch, a stereotypical bad guy who deserves to get beaten for existing.

You don't get to define what is normal; the statistics do. If the majority of men today are losing their virginity at 26

People's milestones are shifting to later in life.

That's like saying inflation, underemployment and inequality are normal because those are rising across the board. Historically- speaking its not normal to live like this, its not normal for almost 30% of young men to be sexless.

So while the data does show men are losing their virginity later, it also shows a very small number of men have not lost it at all by their late 20s.

I mentioned before that what's concerning about this data is that very few men talk about this because of the social stigma of being a sexual loser, much like women lie about how many men they been with because of the social stigma of being a slut. The feminist cope about "why does it matter how many men I been with" is not that different from incel cope. Point is, most men lie or at least exaggerate about this.

,"We should probably fix that leaky pipe in the basement," problem.

I already say the problem is not an emergency yet, but its more like that pipe is already flooding the basement. Some people just use a pump since that's cheaper than a contractor and plumber to replace the pipe, but then the water seeps to the foundation and the entire house goes to shit, get where I'm going with this?

 

[BPD Gunt Rider]

Now whether virgins are increasing, and whether incels are increasing, it's hard to tell but general isolation and alienation is increasing, thanks to the commodification and gamification of human relationships and the breakdown of communities among many, many other things.

Single men have increased to disturbing levels that society really should be caring about. That's all that matters. The difference between an incel and the average bloke who gets laid every once in a while is irrelevant.

 

[Never Scored]

didn't know anyone like that IRL ATT and still got the joke, everybody did, because the situation is funny on its own. Of course a lot of stuff is funny when its not happening to you...

Nope, late teens, didn't care about it.

both the Simpsons and 40yr virgin tried to uplift the character many times, they were even rooting for them to finally get their shit together specially the later.

The forever alone meme is originally from around 2009 or 2010. If you were in your late teens then, you were in your early to mid teens when the 40-year-old Virgin came out. Then you are turning around and telling me, a man who was in his early 20s when the 40-Year-Old Virgin came out, how adult men felt about other adult men who had not lost their virginity at the time. Got it.

Buddy, adult male virgins were mercilessly mocked in media for being adult male virgins in the for decades. Here are a bunch of examples off the top of my head besides the examples we already pointed out:
-38-years-old by the Tragically Hip
-Zapp Brannigan on Futurama
-The guy in Weekend at Bernies 2 being a virgin
-The American Pie Movies painting leaving high school as a virgin as bad
-The Dougler on Undergrads is referred to as a "Virgin in Denial"
-It was heavily implied the guys in Night at the Roxberry were virgins for comedic value
-Principal Skinner tells everyone he is a 40-year-old virgin in an episode of the Simpson and everyone leaves in disgust and says they'll never look at him the same way again.

Losing your virginity has always been seen as a right of passage and frankly to say that adult men who are virgins have not always been openly mocked is profoundly retarded. This is a very bizarre hill to choose to die on.

And that's cringe,

So you're saying people unfairly judge men who are virgins and then turn around and do it? The question isn't if it is cringe or not, the question is if it was a thing that existed.

That's like saying inflation, underemployment and inequality are normal because those are rising across the board. Historically- speaking its not normal to live like this, its not normal for almost 30% of young men to be sexless.

Except that those things are unquestionably bad. It's debatable if losing your virginity at 23 as opposed to 19 is.

 

[Gaear Grimsrud]

I'm in the weird position of not relating to the normies, or the incels.

Maybe TMI, but I'm a 30+ year old virgin. It's because I just never cared to try, and can't be bothered to have a social life. I'm autistic, pretty reclusive, and don't enjoy socializing/talking to people at all. And I mean diagnosed, problem autism. Not self diagnosed, I'm so quirky autism.

I've had random chicks express interest in me in high school, I was even told that I was hot by some of them. but I just can't be bothered. No, I'm not chad. I'm overweight and kinda short, but I dress okay, I groom well, and I have a decent face with clear skin. I also had an eyebrow ring back then. Girls seemed to like that a lot.

My family doesn't treat me like a joke because of it. I've never complained about having no bitches, not even once, so they just assume it's not an issue for me. I'm actually far less cringe and annoying than the sex havers in my family, although none of them are exactly winners. So I have no brutal rejection stories, and I have no personal resentment towards women, aside from a lot of them being retards these days.


I really can't say if the incel worldview is "correct", but seeing the way the incels carry on really makes me glad that I have the disposition that I do. Not giving a fuck beats the sadsack ruminations of incels any day of the week.

 

[Shadfan666xxx000]

I'm in the weird position of not relating to the normies, or the incels.

Maybe TMI, but I'm a 30+ year old virgin. It's because I just never cared to try, and can't be bothered to have a social life. I'm autistic, pretty reclusive, and don't enjoy socializing/talking to people at all. And I mean diagnosed, problem autism. Not self diagnosed, I'm so quirky autism.

I've had random chicks express interest in me in high school, I was even told that I was hot by some of them. but I just can't be bothered. No, I'm not chad. I'm overweight and kinda short, but I dress okay, I groom well, and I have a decent face with clear skin. I also had an eyebrow ring back then. Girls seemed to like that a lot.

My family doesn't treat me like a joke because of it. I've never complained about having no bitches, not even once, so they just assume it's not an issue for me. I'm actually far less cringe and annoying than the sex havers in my family, although none of them are exactly winners. So I have no brutal rejection stories, and I have no personal resentment towards women, aside from a lot of them being retards these days.


I really can't say if the incel worldview is "correct", but seeing the way the incels carry on really makes me glad that I have the disposition that I do. Not giving a fuck beats the sadsack ruminations of incels any day of the week.

Dude, you're most likely a mild schizoid. You'd be in a monastery or some random forest cabin no matter what and emulating you as an example is like trying to sell BPD as a social lubricant.

 

[cybertoaster]

adult male virgins were mercilessly mocked in media for being adult male virgins in the for decades

Didn't say they weren't mocked, again I'm saying they were not the bad guys, the themes were more than usually one of self-improvement and redemption, modern views are "just drop dead already".

So you're saying people unfairly judge men who are virgins and then turn around and do it?

It is cringe to try to be "haha funny" and coping about arrested development. Most of those guys must be in their late 30's/early 40's and still virgins now.

Except that those things are unquestionably bad. It's debatable if losing your virginity at 23 as opposed to 19 is.

So every generation gets more arrested and that's not unquestionably bad? what?

 

[Never Scored]

The goalposts are getting moved pretty hard here. We started out with you saying no one even talked about it back then.

Yeah, tons, we never even talked about it back then, incel wasn't even in the lexicon.

And now after us going back and fourth to the point where I listed dozens of 20+ year old examples from pop culture of people making fun of adult virgin characters, you've revealed you were a small child during that time period and have started saying "No no no! It was different when people made fun of incels back then!"

Cope.

 

[Gaear Grimsrud]

Dude, you're most likely a mild schizoid. You'd be in a monastery or some random forest cabin no matter what and emulating you as an example is like trying to sell BPD as a social lubricant.

Yeah, I've suspected that I've got some schizoid in me. I'd rather keep the autism diagnosis. They don't give you NEETbux for being a schizoid, I don't think.

 

[Shadfan666xxx000]

Yeah, I've suspected that I've got some schizoid in me. I'd rather keep the autism diagnosis. They don't give you NEETbux for being a schizoid, I don't think.

I'm pretty sure you get more actually. You should investigate.

 

[BPD Gunt Rider]

Yeah, I've suspected that I've got some schizoid in me. I'd rather keep the autism diagnosis. They don't give you NEETbux for being a schizoid, I don't think.

Schizoid gets you nothing from everyone I've known with it. It's like the worst you can get diagnosed with, so I concur with you.

I'm also diagnosed autistic and get NEETbux, so what's the point of getting diagnosed with anything else?

 

[Daily Affirmation]

Is there something significantly different about the male need for social connection that it inherently must involve sexual contact? I've heard many times that men require sex to experience any emotional intimacy, and that they don't value any non-sexual relationship for that reason. I consider that has to be bullshit. They get something out of being a father, usually, right? Men value their friends?

But would someone in good faith be kind enough to explain this difference to me? I am a woman and don't have that male experience. There's obviously something I don't 'get', and I would like to get it.

I'm diagnosed schizoid. If I was to be a father, I would "love" my kids. I'd have a sense of obligation to them and would want to nurture them into the best adults they could be, but from afar with a checkbook. My passion, my personal emotional investment, would all be directed at their mother. My other half. The moon to my sun. I would love our kids mostly because she loved our kids and would never choose to have any on my own. Friends I value, because the few I have are rare gems. There's space for one woman and a handful of soulmates in my heart. Family I avoid like the plague, as if you can't fuck them and you have nothing in common with them, what's the point of putting yourself through the effort?

Now, like I said, I'm schizoid, but if we assume spd is the male equivalent of bpd in women I doubt my feelings are wildly at odds with most men's feelings. I'm not proud of them or claim they're not maladaptive, but they are what they are.

 

[AWizard]

but if we assume spd is the male equivalent of bpd in women

The male equivalent of bpd would bpd.

I doubt my feelings are wildly at odds with most men's feelings.

Am I reading your post wrong? Did you leave the word "don't" out in your post?

 

[isalaide]

I'm diagnosed schizoid. If I was to be a father, I would "love" my kids. I'd have a sense of obligation to them and would want to nurture them into the best adults they could be, but from afar with a checkbook. My passion, my personal emotional investment, would all be directed at their mother. My other half. The moon to my sun. I would love our kids mostly because she loved our kids and would never choose to have any on my own. Friends I value, because the few I have are rare gems. There's space for one woman and a handful of soulmates in my heart. Family I avoid like the plague, as if you can't fuck them and you have nothing in common with them, what's the point of putting yourself through the effort?

Now, like I said, I'm schizoid, but if we assume spd is the male equivalent of bpd in women I doubt my feelings are wildly at odds with most men's feelings. I'm not proud of them or claim they're not maladaptive, but they are what they are.

Sorry to pry, and don't answer obviously if this is too personal. But why are you able to emotionally bond with a partner but not with your children?

 

[Daily Affirmation]

Sorry to pry, and don't answer obviously if this is too personal. But why are you able to emotionally bond with a partner but not with your children?

I can't say, exactly. From a very early age I craved bliss and feeling complete and must have fixated on romantic love as the one true solution to all of my needs. If I just found the woman who balances my romantic equation then we would both be ecstatic for the rest of our lives. I certainly didn't feel any connection with anyone around me. My singular sexual and emotional bond, my manic pixie bangmommy, was out there waiting for me, and I set out to find her. It didn't take too many years to realize that the feeling I was looking for since I was three years old didn't easily come from sex or relationships, but did with recreational drugs, and everyone is much better off for it. I was too concerned with my own needs to think of others. Sex and love are almost synonyms to me. When I think "love" I imagine boundaries dissolving: emotional, mental and physical. Melting into a cuddle puddle and merging into one thing. As I am not a pedo, I don't have any interest in connecting with children. If anything, they'd get in the way of experiencing my idea of love with their mother.

It's all schizoid and crazy. I wouldn't consider myself an incel because if I tried at all I could be a sex haver again, but I don't feel loneliness like other people and my idea of love is so unhealthy that it's better for everyone that I don't. Also, I wasn't molested if that's what you were thinking but there was emotional abuse.

 

[pentangle]

Not giving a fuck beats the sadsack ruminations of incels any day of the week.

Are you never nervous about dying alone? Like what happens when you're older and sick/feeble? Who would take care of you? Obviously getting married/having kids isn't a guarantee that someone would take care of you but not having them seems like a guarantee that nobody will take care of you.

 

[pirate flayer]

Are you never nervous about dying alone? Like what happens when you're older and sick/feeble? Who would take care of you? Obviously getting married/having kids isn't a guarantee that someone would take care of you but not having them seems like a guarantee that nobody will take care of you.

I tried to find a woman. I'll keep sort of looking around and being open to it. But fuck if I'm gonna be bothered by anything at this stage. I've had terrible experiences with women or really any kind of social interaction, I don't need that shit in my life. I'm counting on my family (brother and sister who have kids) to help see me through a little bit, although I'll probably fuck up those relationships as well before I'm dead. I dunno. I can't imagine I'll outlast them at any rate, with all the abuses I've put myself through and will continue to put myself through. Maybe I'll try to create a scenario where I will gloriously die on my own vomit from drinking too much while a hooker is riding my viagra-induced boner. Something like that. It just doesn't matter.

 

[Gaear Grimsrud]

Are you never nervous about dying alone? Like what happens when you're older and sick/feeble? Who would take care of you? Obviously getting married/having kids isn't a guarantee that someone would take care of you but not having them seems like a guarantee that nobody will take care of you.

No, dying alone doesn't really bother me. The fact that nobody, or at least very few people., even know I exist doesn't bother me.

If something ever happened that made life too unpleasant for me, I'd just kill myself. I'm not afraid of that.

I'm really not bothered by much at all. I'm emotionally flat. It's a big reason I'm fascinated by the histrionics of a lot of lolcows, because being like that is such an alien thing to me.

 

[Major]

According to a yougov survey recently of 4000 people (with a 61% response rate) about 7% of men were virgins compared to 4% of women. In the 18-29 age group, 25% are virgins with no sex breakdown but one can assume that number is skewed toward men. It is about 1-4% in the other age groups.

Overall men lost their virginity at 18 compared to 17 for women. The distribution curves are flatter for men and more averaged for women but overall significantly, as do most things man/woman.

https://d3nkl3psvxxpe9.cloudfront.net/documents/YouGov_-_Sex_partners_and_virginity_loss_age.pdf

The numbers don't add up on this presentation so I don't know what that's about.

https://yougov.co.uk/society/articles/45314-how-many-sexual-partners-have-britons-had

The number of sexual partners is 5 for men and 4 for women with the same curve structure. Bear in mind gay men will skew the numbers, but it's worth noting that 1 in 5 people have 15+ sex partners and the sluttiest generation is gen x

 

[Ughubughughughughughghlug]

I'm in the weird position of not relating to the normies, or the incels.

. I also had an eyebrow ring back then.

You’re not an incel.
You’re full blown gay.

 

[Towoman]

https://d3nkl3psvxxpe9.cloudfront.net/documents/YouGov_-_Sex_partners_and_virginity_loss_age.pdf

i accuse this survey of being gay and only asked normalniggers and most likely didnt bother reaching out to groups that dont seek out surveys to awnser