Incel and Lonely Men Debate thread - Defend men giving up or tell them otherwise

[Agares]

yeah I'd want to get away from any serious population centers within 10 years myself cause of this. Angry 30-40 something men and bitter spinsters at levels not seen since...... probably ever?

I'm not even concerned about their impact on the dating pool but on how they'll take their anger and frustration out on society. Especially with our current digital age they'll get sweeped into into some dangerous stuff.

Worst case scenario is we'll see gender relations in the US go the way of South Korea.

 

[AWizard]

Its a consequence of us being so rich we decided to try and eliminate consequences from bad actions, then act all shocked when everyone is shit.

Because bitter, undateable people who ruined their owned lives aren't good company.

Somehow the conversation has turned back to placing all blame on incels again? And the apparent perception that most people, incels or not, are economically well off in today's society?

Granted, in this era, I don't blame the average guy for not being able to afford the life his father or grandfather may have easily had access to.

A good firm handshake and no degree got them into entry-level positions that today probably require several years experience and a degree, with thousands of applicants applying for the same position.

 

[Newfag14]

Somehow the conversation has turned back to placing all blame on incels again? And the apparent perception that most people, incels or not, are economically well off in today's society?


A good firm handshake and no degree got them into entry-level positions that today probably require several years experience and a degree, with thousands of applicants applying for the same position.

Tbh the point about bitter people not being good company is somewhat legit, given that those people often can't stop talking about their often very legit gripes and don't use use those feelings to fuel their ability to be productive. People do value good vibes, even more so when everything is getting worse.

The thought that people are economically well off is indeed a joke, even more so to an Eurozone dweller, wich also is linked to your 100% true stated fact that it was way easier to get a good job in the past, be it in the US or the EU.
There I would also blame the increase of digital means to hire people, it's a similar effect online dating had on dating but applied to the job market. I know because I got fucked over by my CV a lot but always got a good response when I could apply in person to a job. A good firm handshake still is good to have.

I personally am very split on the Incel-question (I'm not a classic incel, just a very alienated guy that was in relationships but kinda forgott how to be social outside of work related stuff) and I think discussions on that topic are very hard to have since Incels are by no means an uniform block.
By this very nature of the topic there will be a constant back and forth in regards to blaming incels or going easier on them with more blame put on "society" and such.

 

[Anasûrimbor Kellhus]

Somehow the conversation has turned back to placing all blame on incels again? And the apparent perception that most people, incels or not, are economically well off in today's society?

No that’s not what you quoted from me is saying. The blame is on decadence across the board and the welfare state. When I said “we are so rich” I don’t mean individual people but the largess of society/the state.

This need to see attack and be victimized in every little statement may be part of the problem though very strange how you read “it’s the incels fault!” From what I said

 

[AWizard]

Tbh the point about bitter people not being good company is somewhat legit, given that those people often can't stop talking about their often very legit gripes and don't use use those feelings to fuel their ability to be productive. People do value good vibes, even more so when everything is getting worse.

Sure but I mean, how many of them are actually voicing their thoughts outside of the internet? How many of them actually have a support network? And are virgins and incels, in this thread at least, counted differently or as one group?

....very strange how you read...

I mean, you seem to view incels as some sort of annoyance/threat to be waited out instead of being assimilated back into society:

Only question is how painful will those incels and femcels make it for the rest of society.

....but on how they'll take their anger and frustration out on society.

-

The blame is on decadence across the board and the welfare state.

Mind expanding on this?

 

[cybertoaster]

I think the issue with incels/femcels is that they have self-esteem so low and so utterly fucked that they won't see the solution to getting out of it requires them to take action.

It varies a lot, some still believe they are the chosen ones and deserve only a top-tier stacy/chad and wont settle for anything less, which is partially why so many of them (mostly the men of course) are virgins, and the women single since they can get fucked by a hot guy but he's not gonna stick around.

And it only gets worse with time because of a sort of sunk cost fallacy effect as in "I waited this long I'm not gonna give up now!", specially with the femcels.

And the apparent perception that most people, incels or not, are economically well off in today's society?

If anything most incels seem to be poor and many coming from generational poverty.

but thanks to our knowledge of history we know that eventually, even if it takes decades or centuries, the rot *does* clear out eventually and new healthier flourishing societies will emerge.

Not great living thru a collapse or a dark age, plus some ethnic groups never regained their ancient status, we could be at the bottom forever like the egyptians and the assyrians.

I'm not even concerned about their impact on the dating pool but on how they'll take their anger and frustration out on society. Especially with our current digital age they'll get sweeped into into some dangerous stuff.

We're already seeing that, most feminist writing today is femcel stuff, and getting worse.

As for the incels most will simply die in silence, the threat they pose is abysmally low which is probably why society in general feels free to vilify them. Compare that with the 180° turn regarding muslims ever since they went truck of peace on everybody.

 

[Alexander Thaut]

It varies a lot, some still believe they are the chosen ones and deserve only a top-tier stacy/chad and wont settle for anything less, which is partially why so many of them (mostly the men of course) are virgins, and the women single since they can get fucked by a hot guy but he's not gonna stick around.

And it only gets worse with time because of a sort of sunk cost fallacy effect as in "I waited this long I'm not gonna give up now!", specially with the femcels.

the issue seems to be that a lot of the ones that are delusional seem to be the types who should just be tossed into some work program. like, there's so many of these idiots that ruin things for other people.

 

[Newfag14]

Sure but I mean, how many of them are actually voicing their thoughts outside of the internet? How many of them actually have a support network? And are virgins and incels, in this thread at least, counted differently or as one group?

Well, there are indeed no places IRL where people can meet up to talk about such issues and it's pretty much limited to the Internet for better or mostly for worse.
The few potential support networks that could come to mind maybe some church congregations if there is a priest that is willing to talk about the hardships of men or by proxy by the parents of those men talking amongst each other, voicing concern that they might never have a grandchild if they care about that.
The opening post of this thread should be updated with a clear definition of the term "Incel".

In my book an incel in general is a guy that has a hard time forming a romantic relationship with the opposite sex and usually also sucks at having a healthy social life.
Their virginity status is irrelevant.

But then one should make a very important distinction between Incels :

There are Incels that are a lost cause because it's very unlikely for them to ever find a romantic partner because they are like really ugly due to horrible genetics, injuries, mental or physical disabilities. In there case they still should strife to live a meaningful life but should come to facts with being genetic dead ends. Those I would call true incels

The other, more common group of Incels one would be Incels that are just normal, somewhat average dudes that got a bad hand in life due to a bad upbringing caused by divorced parents or parents that just failed to do a decent job raising a kid because it's a hard to pull off in this ever growing hellscape of a world.
They still can be "fixed" though it's still a hard thing to do.

 

[Anasûrimbor Kellhus]

I mean, you seem to view incels as some sort of annoyance

You're reading too much into my overall worldview on inceldom from disparate statements about different aspects of this topic.

For one the only annoyance with "incels" I have are with the loud ones that whine and use their inceldom as an excuse to just complain and LDAR . This is not most incels, most incels are just day to day average men with average jobs who shut up and don't complain and go to work and just can't seem to find anyone. Hell I'm not ashamed to admit at the moment I fall into the latter category as I have yet to find anyone I really click with.

regardless of which flavor of incel we're talking here, they're a consequence of bad decisions made in our recent Post WW2 time of altruism and economic flourishing. When I refer to the damage they will do I don't mean every incel but simply the damage that is caused by having a sizable portion of men who have nothing to live to die for. most will likely languish silently but there will be a sizable minority of them that will form violent gangs and such. On the femcel side you have a lot of spinsters that will do damage via the political process.

The way to bring incels back partially involves getting rid of having the welfare state. A large amount of incels are created because daddy government is a uber gigaprovider now. You saw this with the black community after the Great Society was established under LBJ. Who needs a husband when you can get the resources through gibsmedat?

getting rid of the welfare state also creates better men out of the incels as they now can get wives by working hard and earning cash instead of getting mogged by daddy gibsmedat.

and this isn't the end all be all solution mind you, but I think its a big part of the puzzle.

 

[AWizard]

You're reading too much into my overall worldview on inceldom from disparate statements about different aspects of this topic.

I'll take your word for it.

regardless of which flavor of incel we're talking here, they're a consequence of bad decisions made in our recent Post WW2 time of altruism and economic flourishing. When I refer to the damage they will do I don't mean every incel but simply the damage that is caused by having a sizable portion of men who have nothing to live to die for. most will likely languish silently but there will be a sizable minority of them that will form violent gangs and such. On the femcel side you have a lot of spinsters that will do damage via the political process.

The way to bring incels back partially involves getting rid of having the welfare state. A large amount of incels are created because daddy government is a uber gigaprovider now. You saw this with the black community after the Great Society was established under LBJ. Who needs a husband when you can get the resources through gibsmedat?

getting rid of the welfare state also creates better men out of the incels as they now can get wives by working hard and earning cash instead of getting mogged by daddy gibsmedat.

and this isn't the end all be all solution mind you, but I think its a big part of the puzzle.

Your solution is to get rid of the welfare state, so that in addition to the influx of immigrants who will accept poor pay and poor conditions, and create another flow of cheap labour? Sounds incredibly jewish to me. Not to mention the rate of crime will probably increase when there aren't enough jobs to accommodate this new group of unemployed people who most won't probably be incels.

What's the other part of your plan?

 

[Anasûrimbor Kellhus]

so that in addition to the influx of immigrants

and this isn't the end all be all solution mind you, but I think its a big part of the puzzle.

ending endless immigration and stopping the endless money printing are another big part of this plan. in any case most immigrants come here for the gibsmedat you make it too economically beneficial for them to come here. Enforce hiring restrictions against illegals and with no gibsmedat the immigration largely stops. Its like in canada how a lot of indians are now fleeing to go back to india cause the gibs aren't worth the squeeze.

the welfare state is one of the most jewish things as it is right now, specifically in the states, creates an entire class of niggercattle golems lmfao.

 

[Forsaken Wanderer]

@Forsaken Wanderer Honestly the best thing I can advise you to do is go and visit a monastery for a short period. There's more than 20 of them dotted around the states, so you should be able to find one.

I'm not going to sell you some grand notion of spiritual awakening, but I do find that a lot of problems people have with the church are due to the fact that they never really get to experience it in its truest form, which I'd argue is the form that's kept alive by monastics.

At the very least if you give it a chance and go to a monastery, you might get a better understanding of where you stand in all this as you'd be giving yourself a chance to experience something that you'll likely not have experienced before.

That is an interesting thought, have you ever been to a monastery before? And do they allow anyone to wander in and live with them? The other option is to live in a cabin in the woods and detox yourself from all the poisons of society as well.

Why would you want this? I'm not baiting just curious.

I don't mean as slave masters but I just mean that women are designed to be a hivemind that follow authority without question. So the only way to fix women is to have a based king that cracks down on whores and promotes real traditional life styles. And to have society become wholesome again. Then the female hivemind will be back to the place it should be.

@cybertoaster Every country in the world will be turned into a horrid third world nightmare where the quality of life is grotty piss stained dirt. BUT there is one ingredient in this plan that makes our experience different - white genocide. They don't expect us to be around in the 2030s. They are also doing the same thing to Japan and slav countries. Instead the west will be these chaotic worlds of Arabs, Africans, Indians etc all fighting over land and so they will pose no external threat.

@California Newt I hope I make sense as these days I'm so mentally and physically sickly everything is hazy, it might be the turbo cancers.

What I mean about the history of the universe is this - Divine entity or basic elements it doesn't matter which, there cannot be a beginning to the universe. You can't create something from nothing. So god must of existed forever or space atoms must of existed forever. There is never a chapter 1, no opening era to this dimension. Same goes to the size of the universe. It has to go on forever as if you have an edge then something must be beyond it and that has to go on forever, and so on. We can't understand the infinitum of time and space, god or no.

I must say I don't know much about the orthodox church I'll have to look more into it, all I know is that catholics and protestants both have been lead astray by the devil, with catholics being easier to control and so lead further down the dark path. The burning of Notre Dame and the hundreds of churches that have been defaced recently is a sign that our connection to god is being severed. Not because these things happen but because nothing is done about it, if only our men of faith would behead sinners but instead they tell people to turn the other cheek and to forgive.



Something I find frustrating with the normies is that they have no frame of reference for what younger white men are going through. Because Netflix and Vice etc don't cover what is happening to us they have no idea that anything is happening at all. They know of black slaves and the holocaust but they don't know about the lonely lost white men epidemic. It's somehow silently and invisibly happening right in front of them and they have not got a clue.

 

[cybertoaster]

Every country in the world will be turned into a horrid third world nightmare where the quality of life is grotty piss stained dirt.

Nah, again if you want to see what's gonna happen just watch some videos of urban tours of brazil, or better yet take a walk around and see it for yourself.

Here's what I mean in one image:

On the left you got a favela where people struggle every day to survive, on the right a series of swanky apartments with their own private pool each.

In the same city you got places like this


With mansions like these:

That one has 2 heliports, a hangar, and an underground garage for fifty cars. This would be considered excessive even in gaudy places like malibu and beverly hills.

In between those you got a middle class that has to deal with favela gangs running around with military-spec weapons while the rich have private security and can get away with anything. Social mobility only goes down in a world like this, you have to work your ass off just to not become poorer than you are, but if you're rich you can only fail upwards.

Do you still wonder why our elites are pushing for this? its win-win for them.

BUT there is one ingredient in this plan that makes our experience different - white genocide

Many of these countries are facing demographic change too, its happening all over the place, we just don't hear about it because well, nobody cares.

 

[AWizard]

the welfare state is one of the most jewish things as it is right now, specifically in the states, creates an entire class of niggercattle golems lmfao.

Let's pretend it is, the other two parts of your plan, I don't see why the powers that be would allow them to happen. They'd allow the welfare state to collapse but not those two other things.

Its all cope to avoid accepting reality, its magical thinking that if you just did this and that you would've won at life. Thinking "If I didn't play videogames/if I wasn't on the internet I would be popular" is fantasy, it doesn't work like that, odds are you were like that because you had nothing going IRL. And thinking that's what happened will destroy you, you've to learn to live with what you got even if its not what you want and it feels unfair, because life is unfair but you only get one life.

I think it's very difficult for people to accept certain things that are out of their control and I think it's very difficult for people to accept that fortune favoured them because a lot of them believe in the self-made man idea, that all their gains were solely made by themselves. Effort is only part of it, chance/opportunity is the other.

If anything most incels seem to be poor and many coming from generational poverty.

Makes sense, being poorer means you have less to offer, means you have less things and places to access, means your opportunities are fewer.

As for the incels most will simply die in silence, the threat they pose is abysmally low which is probably why society in general feels free to vilify them.

I think I've drawn the ire of some people by suggesting this.

 

[Irredemable Retardation]

Nah, again if you want to see what's gonna happen just watch some videos of urban tours of brazil, or better yet take a walk around and see it for yourself.

Here's what I mean in one image:
View attachment 6092592
On the left you got a favela where people struggle every day to survive, on the right a series of swanky apartments with their own private pool each.

In the same city you got places like this
View attachment 6092596

With mansions like these:
View attachment 6092599
That one has 2 heliports, a hangar, and an underground garage for fifty cars. This would be considered excessive even in gaudy places like malibu and beverly hills.

In between those you got a middle class that has to deal with favela gangs running around with military-spec weapons while the rich have private security and can get away with anything. Social mobility only goes down in a world like this, you have to work your ass off just to not become poorer than you are, but if you're rich you can only fail upwards.

Do you still wonder why our elites are pushing for this? its win-win for them.

Many of these countries are facing demographic change too, its happening all over the place, we just don't hear about it because well, nobody cares.

Will the Shitzil train go forever through? In spite of being an archetypical third world hellhole where more people died violently yearly than in Ukraine the country is in a brutal demographic collapse to the point that it's already comparable to Western European countries.

 

[Sniperwoof]

Fifteen years ago incels were absolutely irredeemable freaks like Adam Lanza.

Today's incel is Gary the accountant. Gary is 5'll, 187 pounds, slightly balding but overall in good shape. He makes a respectable 75k a year and owns his own home.

Twenty years ago Gary would be married and eagerly awaiting the birth of his third child. Today Gary has probably never had a woman glance in his direction.

Shits getting dire out there and I don't have a solution.

 

[Ingmar Aspergman]

I’m finding that being creatively productive helps a lot, a lot of guys have zero ambition in life so they’re left with just stewing in loneliness. A big problem with advice to incels outside of being largely extremely backhanded and insincere, is the intellectual dishonesty of solving the problem. Merely having ambitions and goals will not make you sexually successful if you’re ugly and autistic, even though I would recommend it, I understand why no one wants to hear it because it’s obvious that it’s not a solution but another way of enriching your life.

 

[PaleTay]

Fifteen years ago incels were absolutely irredeemable freaks like Adam Lanza.

Today's incel is Gary the accountant. Gary is 5'll, 187 pounds, slightly balding but overall in good shape. He makes a respectable 75k a year and owns his own home.

Twenty years ago Gary would be married and eagerly awaiting the birth of his third child. Today Gary has probably never had a woman glance in his direction.

Shits getting dire out there and I don't have a solution.

It varies a lot, some still believe they are the chosen ones and deserve only a top-tier stacy/chad and wont settle for anything less, which is partially why so many of them (mostly the men of course) are virgins, and the women single since they can get fucked by a hot guy but he's not gonna stick around.

And it only gets worse with time because of a sort of sunk cost fallacy effect as in "I waited this long I'm not gonna give up now!", specially with the femcels.

I do think these are very related but not for the reason implied. I've found the models I've dated and befriended are just better people, lower maintenance, and usually somewhat lonely too.

I do think the main problem is most of the average girls are obese, bpd, have a pill problem, and still wouldn't respect Gary.

 

[cybertoaster]

I think I've drawn the ire of some people by suggesting this.

Both incels and femcels cope about a "time of retribution" but the former has zero chance of seeing that happening. On the other hand femcel rhetoric dominates feminist academia.

Twenty years ago Gary would be married and eagerly awaiting the birth of his third child. Today Gary has probably never had a woman glance in his direction.

It sounds like a joke but on another thread they were showing a guy who was even slightly above average and the best he could get was an aging instathot single mom with a black kid, its baffling.

is the intellectual dishonesty of solving the problem.

Its hypernormalization, everybody knows the problem, everybody knows the current system is not working, but much like soviet people in the 80's they can't think of an alternative or fear talking about one so everybody pretends the current bullshit is ok and even defend it.

That's why the USSR collapsed like it did, they took that mentality to the limit.

 

[AngryAboutInternets]

I do think the main problem is most of the average girls are obese, bpd, have a pill problem, and still wouldn't respect Gary.

It very much is this, on the female side. They've spent 20 years being gassed up by every piece of media and every institution so now there are about ~2 generations of women who are effectively undateable by choice (if they aren't just too crazy), whether that choice be a drug addiction, financial ruin, obesity, or just plain retarded standards. Sometimes a combo of all of those. The fattest, ugliest, actual crackhoes I knew in Uni who were getting pumped and dumped multiple times per week genuinely believed that they were too good for the men who were using them like fleshlights, but still fucked them anyway. The men weren't much better, but they had jobs (and drugs), while the women were basically dead broke.

Modern female egotism, combined with a widespread female sex addiction problem that nobody is talking about, has utterly destroyed the dating market for younger men in the west. Good news is: This can't go on for much longer and also you can leave. Bad news is: It's spreading and the only places it's not in yet aren't nearly as comfortable or free.