Hazbin Hotel / Helluva Boss Thread - Now a Griefing Thread

[AnOminous]

Saw The Devil's Rejects for it's 20th anniversary earlier this week. How is it that Rob Zombie made a bunch of regular humans more demon-like than an actual bunch of demons in a black comedic adult cartoon? The difference between the Firefly clan and IMP is that the Fireflies are unambiguously bad people. Period. Their only purpose in life is to torture/kill as many people as possible. And they're just as venomous toward each other as they are to their victims.

I actually sort of disagree with that, at least the last part. Yes, they are unambiguously evil. Yes, Rob Zombie does absolutely nothing to put any "redeeming social value" or other bullshit into it. This is a refreshing thing since so many current year horror movies try to put some veneer of morality to justify getting off, nonsexually, on watching two hours of pure sadism.

There's a touch of "Sheriff John Quincy Wydell is just as evil" to it, but it isn't justifying it.

However, despite being irredeemable monsters and tormenting each other to some extent, the main trio (Otis Spaulding and Baby) seem to have genuine affection for each other. And if you remember the almost as good House of 1000 Corpses, Mama also loved her brood of vipers and Tiny was willing to sacrifice himself for the others.

Another weird thing is it seems like people who are good at playing absolute psychopaths are usually pretty nice. From all accounts, Sid Haig was a major bro, Moseley is someone you'd have a beer with, and I've heard very little about Rob Zombie himself being an asshole, even from people who detest his movies.

I hope he has another movie on the level of The Devil's Rejects in him because it's one of my favorite of all times.

I think my favorite scene in TDR isn't one of the action scenes or even the chicken-fucking scene, but the scene where a film critic based on Gene Shalit is lecturing the Sheriff about the Marx Brothers references the main characters were using as names and insults Elvis in the process and Wydell goes completely berserk. A lot of what was so good about this film is Zombie's obvious love and depth of knowledge about film and actual respectful treatment of a twisted genre, much like Tarantino's love of blaxploitation films and respect for what black people on a low budget could put together which is probably why he is the only white man in movies with an unlimited N-word pass.

Charlie is still very ignorant to the fact of what being "good" actually entails.

"Redemption" would imply "being good" for some reason other than pure self-preservation. That isn't redemption, that's pragmatism from an evil person.

I still admire the Charlie who threw down with this bitch in the pilot, but that's not the Charlie we got in the series.

Semirelated to the whole convo but I hate how media lately is like 'what if the devil was good?". Dude was the corrupter. He was the obstacle in Jesus' path. The demon is behind the dangerous sin to have.

This is sometimes related to esoteric arguments that Lucifer ("light-bringer") is akin to Prometheus, who brought fire to humanity in defiance of the corrupt powers in control of the world, and was punished for all eternity because of it.

It's pretty common in the "Satanism being atheism but with gay pointy beards and robes" scene.

Why? Why is the only way writers can make villains sympathetic is to straight up make them not villains? Either the heroes are the reeeeeeeeal villains or there was some other unmentioned, even worse villain that makes the titular villain not looks so bad, like in Cruella.

Anyone who wants to do the villain protagonist thing should read the (very short novel) Grendel by John Gardner. It's probably the original in this microgenre. It's basically Beowulf retold from the perspective of the monster.

 

[graywolf88]

A couple hours ago the Hazbin twitter account posted a clip from the new season and later deleted it, but people have reuploaded it.

Did Valentino always sound like that much of a gay spic?

 

[Dork Of Ages]

He's actually busy helping StyxHexenhammer use chaos magic to kill New Orleans ADA Ian Kersting. And apparently helping him with gardening and making YouTube slop.

If Viv doesn't make that cannon, she's a coward.

Paging @Re(Runner)48 to draw their version of Stolas crushing Tarl's skull for daring to summon a (actually based) prince of Hell for his petty schizo schemes.

 

[The tired cat]

A couple hours ago the Hazbin twitter account posted a clip from the new season and later deleted it, but people have reuploaded it.
Considering Vox fucks up and says "Trust me" during the released song and his drawings, it's obvious he's going to betray Velvette and Valentino.

A. I swear Velvette sounded way different from S1 and B. She also looks like they redesinged het between seasons.

 

[AnOminous]

Related. A personal favorite of mine is The Screwtape Letters by C.S. Lewis, which has probably also been brought up before.

Yes, very early on, I thought this show could end up good if Vivz actually fucking read C.S. Lewis.

Part of what already impressed me about the apologetics of Lewis is he never shied away from the "strong" form of the topic he was opposing and presented some pathetic straw man, but instead always took on the subject head-on and addressed the strongest arguments of his opposition, never the weakest.

He was not afraid to make Screwtape charming and personable, even if that was a mask, nor did he insult his audience by assuming that if they were exposed to convincing arguments in favor of the moral relativism he despised, they would inevitably be converted.

He actually considered moral relativism even worse than atheism, or at least a tumor that needed to be excised before even getting around to atheism.

Personally, I tend towards some degree of moral relativism, as much as I hate the term itself. Lewis put at least a few dents into my adherence, though.

Hazbin Hotel has suffered a serious lack of intellectual integrity and being able to address in any terms whatsoever the problems even a lunatic character like Katie Killjoy raised.

You don't just get to make a show about Hell and redemption and never address what either of those two things are.

 

[InJailOutSoon]

Like so many other things in these two shows, all the pieces are there for interesting and unique plotlines, it's just that Viv will never focus on them. When Charlie and Blitzo inevitably meet, anyone expecting her to rightfully not like him over the whole killing for money thing is way too optimistic, at most her views on it will be a few throwaway lines that will probably be used as a joke if anything, with zero effect on character dynamics or plot.

It doesn't help that the worldbuilding in each show is shit and is going to clash with each other. Why do hellborn need to go up to Earth to get humans to commit sins? Is that what gives the Deadly Sins their power? Do the hellborn need Sinners to keep Hell alive and running? If it really is a concern that with so many Sinners in hell could be a threat to Heaven, why doesn't Heaven stop hellborn from coming to earth and tempting humans? Wouldn't that help lessen the population of Sinners in Hell?

Having these two shows now officially coexist with one another is just going to bring up these questions and more? Since IMP headquarters are located in the Pride ring, are they going to be affected by Vox trying to get Sinners to form a uprising against Heaven? Are the timelines of both show happening at the same time?

 

[The Marlboro Man]

He was not afraid to make Screwtape charming and personable, even if that was a mask, nor did he insult his audience by assuming that if they were exposed to convincing arguments in favor of the moral relativism he despised, they would inevitably be converted.

Something that has always stuck with me is the way Lewis really took a lot of the fun out of being a bad guy with Screwtape. While Screwtape can have a certain sardonic charm, you never really lost that sense that he'd just be miserable to be around for any extended period of time. His descriptions of what Hell is like doesn't have any of the heavy metal/punk rebel sense of coolness to it. Demons are all miserable busybodies who are resentful freaks ready to backstab any fellow demon for personal gain. The demons are as miserable as the sinners. One of the points being made is that everyone in Hell ultimately chooses to be there, and that demons view Heaven's easy trip through repentance for any evil as being an unfair advantage in Heaven's favor. "Members of His faction have frequently admitted that if ever we came to understand what He means by Love, the war would be over and we should re-enter Heaven."

This would actually be an interesting approach towards people in Hell repenting, with the gates ultimately being locked from the inside. But Vivzie has a progressive metropolitan worldview that doesn't even want to acknowledge a conception of good and evil beyond vague niceness versus meanness.

 

[Dr. Arinsu]

My brain is melting I haven't worked on this AU with @Star Is Screaming in months and we're still on how Mimzy's design is racist. I hate to be that person but HelluvaVerse Haters or whatever we call them nowadays really are a different breed. I don't know where the claim of Mimzy being racist antisemitic came from and they won't really give you anything other then "hook nose, money obsessed, greed" which honestly is NOT enough to make an assumption that Mimzy is Jewish. These seems like their own racism projecting onto her. A jewish person saying something is anti sematic does not make that antisemitic and using Viv's Sausage Party art is alone enough, no need to claim a random character is Jewish.

Please give me actual proof she's Jewish other then stereotypes.

 

[Star Is Screaming]

My brain is melting I haven't worked on this AU with @Star Is Screaming in months and we're still on how Mimzy's design is racist. I hate to be that person but HelluvaVerse Haters or whatever we call them nowadays really are a different breed. I don't know where the claim of Mimzy being racist antisemitic came from and they won't really give you anything other then "hook nose, money obsessed, greed" which honestly is NOT enough to make an assumption that Mimzy is Jewish. These seems like their own racism projecting onto her. A jewish person saying something is anti sematic does not make that antisemitic and using Viv's Sausage Party art is alone enough, no need to claim a random character is Jewish.

Please give me actual proof she's Jewish other then stereotypes.
View attachment 8018635

The Tumblr scene wants to claim so much about how "MUH NOT ENOUGH REP!" and "MUH NOT ENOUGH CHARACTERS" that they shit on the Stans for making up headcanons when what they are doing.... is headcanons. Go on any Redesign/Rewrite or critics blog and you can see how mic they think "this character" should act. Now they are doing the same thing except Mimzy is now Jewish because of the negative stereotype. I sorta just learned to ignore these types of people as they can't even read something or even digest proper humor or tone.

If you look in the #critical tags for Hazbin you can sniff out how prentensious some of these people are. Attacking others for merely correcting them or accusing others of being a pedozoo for no reason. I sorta just checked out after a huge incident and controversy these people make hating Hazbin their persona and have their heads so far up their own asses that they don't understand what rewriting and redesigning is. In short they are just people who are racist themselves.

 

[InJailOutSoon]

My brain is melting I haven't worked on this AU with @Star Is Screaming in months and we're still on how Mimzy's design is racist. I hate to be that person but HelluvaVerse Haters or whatever we call them nowadays really are a different breed. I don't know where the claim of Mimzy being racist antisemitic came from and they won't really give you anything other then "hook nose, money obsessed, greed" which honestly is NOT enough to make an assumption that Mimzy is Jewish. These seems like their own racism projecting onto her. A jewish person saying something is anti sematic does not make that antisemitic and using Viv's Sausage Party art is alone enough, no need to claim a random character is Jewish.

Please give me actual proof she's Jewish other then stereotypes.
View attachment 8018635

The Tumblr scene wants to claim so much about how "MUH NOT ENOUGH REP!" and "MUH NOT ENOUGH CHARACTERS" that they shit on the Stans for making up headcanons when what they are doing.... is headcanons. Go on any Redesign/Rewrite or critics blog and you can see how mic they think "this character" should act. Now they are doing the same thing except Mimzy is now Jewish because of the negative stereotype. I sorta just learned to ignore these types of people as they can't even read something or even digest proper humor or tone.

If you look in the #critical tags for Hazbin you can sniff out how prentensious some of these people are. Attacking others for merely correcting them or accusing others of being a pedozoo for no reason. I sorta just checked out after a huge incident and controversy these people make hating Hazbin their persona and have their heads so far up their own asses that they don't understand what rewriting and redesigning is. In short they are just people who are racist themselves.

If you think a character represents a certain thing not because of they are claimed to be but because of stereotypes you find with them...I think that says more about you and your interpretation of media instead of the creator and their intention. It's the "orcs are black people" all over again.

 

[AnOminous]

One of the points being made is that everyone in Hell ultimately chooses to be there, and that demons view Heaven's easy trip through repentance for any evil as being an unfair advantage in Heaven's favor. "Members of His faction have frequently admitted that if ever we came to understand what He means by Love, the war would be over and we should re-enter Heaven."

And this is the ultimate meaning of Lewis. Hell is not a punishment inflicted on you. It is something you CHOSE.

 

[sixuglymidgets]

And this is the ultimate meaning of Lewis. Hell is not a punishment inflicted on you. It is something you CHOSE.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=LYzPVKg3wyo, list: RDLYzPVKg3wyo

And were given plenty of warnings about throughout your life

 

[ThisIsGonnaBeGood]

Considering Vox fucks up and says "Trust me" during the released song and his drawings, it's obvious he's going to betray Velvette and Valentino.

>betraying the pansexual spic and the British dyke
Kinda based tbh

Did Valentino always sound like that much of a gay spic?

His voice changes depending on who he's talking to. He sounds a lot less flamboyant when he's being an abusive rapist stereotype.

I swear Velvette sounded way different from S1

They couldn't even be bothered to pay her VA to talk in the S1 finale, so that's not surprising.

 

[Retink Retunk]

A couple hours ago the Hazbin twitter account posted a clip from the new season and later deleted it, but people have reuploaded it.
Your browser is not able to display this video.
Considering Vox fucks up and says "Trust me" during the released song and his drawings, it's obvious he's going to betray Velvette and Valentino.

I don't remember but is Valentino supposed to be a retarded and change voice each time he speaks?

A. I swear Velvette sounded way different from S1 and B. She also looks like they redesinged het between seasons.

She sounds close to the original but not exactly the same, and she looks taller. The hair and clothing for her changed all the time in the first season.

 

[A Grey Cat]

Rob Zombie does absolutely nothing to put any "redeeming social value" or other bullshit into it. This is a refreshing thing since so many current year horror movies try to put some veneer of morality to justify getting off, nonsexually, on watching two hours of pure sadism.

There's a touch of "Sheriff John Quincy Wydell is just as evil" to it, but it isn't justifying it.

Can someone make a virgn vs Chad meme only with Rob zombie and vivziepop? For starters rob is happily married and treats Mrs. Zombie like a queen (for better or worse) and Vivian can't find one decent man in her life and going dyke was a total waste so now she's trying a solo asexual run.

 

[Dr. Arinsu]

Can someone make a virgn vs Chad meme only with Rob zombie and vivziepop? For starters rob is happily married and treats Mrs. Zombie like a queen (for better or worse) and Vivian can't find one decent man in her life and going dyke was a total waste so now she's trying a solo asexual run.

Rob is also a songwriter or singer. Iirc. I really like his Living Dead Girl song. Found it through Chucky.

 

[Ultraman Orb Dark]

Charlie can suck my dick.
Fucking demon.

 

[The tired cat]

Can someone make a virgn vs Chad meme only with Rob zombie and vivziepop? For starters rob is happily married and treats Mrs. Zombie like a queen (for better or worse) and Vivian can't find one decent man in her life and going dyke was a total waste so now she's trying a solo asexual run.

I think what help with the marriage is that Rob is still a very popular rockstar, that usually plays well into marriage. Just Rob lucked out with a chick who isnt a bitch. As for Viv, didnt she like go through 2-3 relationships, with 1 ending very badly and hence whom Val was based off?

 

[InJailOutSoon]

His voice changes depending on who he's talking to. He sounds a lot less flamboyant when he's being an abusive rapist stereotype.

I don't remember but is Valentino supposed to be a retarded and change voice each time he speaks?

Either the VA can't keep a consistent accent, or the voice direction is deliberately that shit.

She sounds close to the original but not exactly the same, and she looks taller. The hair and clothing for her changed all the time in the first season.

When she's around Vox, she's only a bit shorter than him.
But during the meeting with the Overlords they made her really small.
But she's not the only one. Everyone's height in this show is inconsistent.

 

[The tired cat]

Either the VA can't keep a consistent accent, or the voice direction is deliberately that shit.

When she's around Vox, she's only a bit shorter than him.View attachment 8020555
But during the meeting with the Overlords they made her really small. View attachment 8020562View attachment 8020563
But she's not the only one. Everyone's height in this show is inconsistent.

Well, BentoBox is involved, so hey nice repeat of how Steven Universe didnt have a consitent height, now we got it here.