Feminism discussion thread

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Women and men consume rape fiction different ways, I dont think theyre comparable. Wanting to be ravaged is different than wanting to rape someone, and one is obviously worse.
But yes I generally dont give a shit about what women are writing about. You you wanna police every other women for not being femanist enough, congrats, you can be the biggest most femanist around. In terms of problems, middle aged women reading about "he touched my pussy without asking!!" is like... so what.
Since I'm the one who posed this question, it isn't about policing what women read. It's noting that, in a country as patriarchal as China, that has a massive sex imbalance, women will turn to male sexuality as a means of 'reclaiming' their own and launching it as a critique of the patriarchy when it isn't. In Western countries it's the same thing: even female-led shows have male-centric fandoms, even when said fandoms are dominated by women. They will admit that they do this because male character's relationships are better written, with more breadth and care placed on them, and that they don't feel sexualized - while associating themselves with the weaker man.

Yaoi is gay porn written by women for women; bara is gay porn written by men for men, and you can absolutely see the difference between the two. There is no 'men being vulnerable' in bara, they just go at it and fuck. Or if they are, it's handled the way men handle feelings vs women, in that there are no pages and pages of exposition, but a sentence or two.

I've seen enough comments by fujos to note the hypocrisy that it isn't about liking male characters more, they just hate women. They can only see themselves as human through the men, and that's what I have an issue with.
Both Feels BadMan and I have mentioned Sarah J. Maas' series. Rebecca Yarros is another derivative romantasy author who reinforces sexist tropes. Another older series that was resurrected recently in wake of the romantasy trend is Anne Rice's Sleeping Beauty series. All of these were recommended in these book groups, online and offline, that I was in. Remember the pandemic? Remember when that happened? People started promoting and meeting online to discuss their interests? That's when a lot of these books were published and gaining traction. Adding any more titles to this point would not convince you, as you're committed to typing one handed since your other hand is down your pants.
I actually read (read: skimmed) Anne Rice's Sleeping Beauty shit and holy fuck was it bad. Sleeping Beauty was raped, assaulted, publicly humiliated in front of her family and made to wear collars and drink and eat out of dog food bowls on the floor. Her homoerotic vampires were tame compared to this.
 
You're just assuming the women are watching yaoi to self insert into "the weaker man" or that a woman is inserting at all. Not everyone is narc enough that they need to "see" themselves in the media they consume. If youre not attracted to women, why would you want to involve women in shipping. Why do you want to insist on women reading straight romances so they can "be" the woman character, thats stupid.
 
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This is more of my own opinion but I get more bothered by the fact that abuse/rape in romance is seen as ideal rather than simply just existing as this weird niche thing. Twilight? A vampire stalks the protagonist and boundaries are constantly crossed. Fifty Shades of Gray? Fanfiction of the previously mentioned story, except with more explicit pseudy-rapey sex. Killing Stalking? A serial killer kidnaps, tortures and rapes another man.

The above stories are/were the most popular stories of their genre. Yaoi is especially gross with this, and most of it is on-par with the taboos seen in hentai aimed at men.

Like I don't even really read this type of stuff but even I sometimes find myself raising eyebrows at what gets popular. I've only read Twilight, never read FSOD, and maybe read two chapters of Killing Stalking before getting grossed out.
If youre not attracted to women, why would you want to involve women in shipping.
What a peculiar opinion.

Edit: Almost forgot to mention this. Boxtail has a pfp from Osomatsu-san, which isn't yaoi but a comedy anime starring sextuplets. Despite this, the fandom was infamous for being filled with some of the most insane fujoshis, and shipping the brothers was only part of the weird chaos I have accidentally witnessed. That fandom was a really good example of how fujoshi culture might not be really healthy.
 
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This is more of my own opinion but I get more bothered by the fact that abuse/rape in romance is seen as ideal rather than simply just existing as this weird niche thing. Twilight? A vampire stalks the protagonist and boundaries are constantly crossed. Fifty Shades of Gray? Fanfiction of the previously mentioned story, except with more explicit pseudy-rapey sex. Killing Stalking? A serial killer kidnaps, tortures and rapes another man.

The above stories are/were the most popular stories of their genre. Yaoi is especially gross with this, and most of it is on-par with the taboos seen in hentai aimed at men.

Like I don't even really read this type of stuff but even I sometimes find myself raising eyebrows at what gets popular. I've only read Twilight, never read FSOD, and maybe read two chapters of Killing Stalking before getting grossed out.

What a peculiar opinion.
How is that peculiar. I dont find women attractive at all literally why would I want to see one naked. If its two attractive dudes... there you go.

I would not consider Killing Stalking close to "the most popular yaoi" for one, its also not very good, but why should I be bothered if a woman likes it. Oh its all TMD until a woman finds men getting beat attractive, then its mUh UnHeAlThY DyNaMiCs.
 
If youre not attracted to women, why would you want to involve women in shipping.
Because, unlike certain people, I like women. I'm not attracted to them sexually, nor do I self-insert as female characters, but I like them and their personalities. I like women irl too, and I want them to find relationships in which they're happy. If I think two characters would make each other happy and have a dynamic that's fun to read about, I want those characters to get together in the story. You know, like a normal person?

Or by "shipping," did you mean porn?
 
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Because, unlike certain people, I like women. I'm not attracted to them sexually, nor do I self-insert as female characters, but I like them and their personalities. I like women irl too, and I want them to find relationships in which they're happy. If I think two characters would make each other happy and have a dynamic that's fun to read about, I want those characters to get together in the story. You know, like a normal person?
I like female characters and I think their ships can be cute, but in the context of relationship media, literally why the fuck would I read about them. Are you reading yaoi cause "I think theyre cool and want to see them happy".

To your edit:
Or by shipping do you mean "porn"
Yes. Of course im reading nsfw fics. Or am I never supposed to read anything nsfw and just think of nothing and sit with my legs closed. "Nooo you cant look at dirty things its sexist" so what the fuck am I supposed to do, just sit and think about a man acting on me? Thats stupid

Also youre making the assumption I want to fuck the gay dudes. Once again you think about self-insert, I dont want to fuck gay dudes. I want to see gay cartoons fuck.
 
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I like female characters and I think their ships can be cute, but in the context of relationship media, literally why the fuck would I read about them. Are you reading yaoi cause "I think theyre cool and want to see them happy". I want to see boys kiss, apparently that means I hate women
I'm not reading yaoi because I'm not mentally ill and I don't have weird fetishes. I also don't consume porn, if that's what you mean by "relationship media." You've spent way too long in brain rotten fandom spaces if the concept of being a normal heterosexual woman is this confusing to you.

Edit:
Or by shipping do you mean "porn"
Yes. Both sfw and nsfw fics. Or am I never supposed to read anything nsfw and just think of nothing and sit with my legs clothes. "Nooo you cant look at dirty things its sexist" thats insane

Also youre making the assumption I want to fuck the gay dudes. Once again you think about self-insert, I dont want to fuck gay dudes. I want to see gay cartoons fuck.
Based on your behavior, I would say taking a break from porn would be a good idea, yes. Not just because it's sexist, but because you are clearly unwell. Chronic sexual voyeurism of the type you're describing is no less unhealthy than whatever you believe you're avoiding by exclusively practicing voyeurism.
 
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I'm not reading yaoi because I'm not mentally ill and I don't have weird fetishes. I also don't consume porn, if that's what you mean by "relationship media." You've spent way too long in brain rotten fandom spaces if the concept of being a normal heterosexual woman is this confusing to you.
Im not confused by the "concept of being a heterosexual woman" I'm a literal heterosexual woman.
So I cant even READ about sex? what about thinking about it, is that verboten too?

To your edit:
"Chronic sexual voyerism" you cant just stick "chronic" on shit. You make it sound like im 24/7 cranking it to yaoi
 
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Im not confused by the "concept of being a heterosexual woman" I'm a literal heterosexual woman.
So I cant even READ about sex? what about thinking about it, is that verboten too?
Idk, but if the only way you can get off is thinking about gay men fucking, and you think that's normal and a good thing, I can't give you any better advice than "maybe don't do that?" I'd say the same to a straight man who's obsessed with lesbians, except I'd also tell him to kill himself slowly and painfully.
 
A reasonable take ITT: "Women reading gay romances and expressing their female sexualities through male stereotypes is problematic."

Your response:
Why do you want to insist on women reading straight romances so they can "be" the woman character, thats stupid.
And then:
Also youre making the assumption I want to fuck the gay dudes. Once again you think about self-insert, I dont want to fuck gay dudes. I want to see gay cartoons fuck.

send me the dimensions of your skull; I simply must study you

EDIT:

I mean gaht-damn, banger for fucking banger of flagrant and confident misunderstanding of points and just all-out unironically hilarious wording

462553707_554028107433675_7318114683064485883_n.webp
 
if the only way you can get off is thinking about gay men fucking
Its not. I usually get off by having sex.

A reasonable take ITT: "Women reading gay romances and expressing their female sexualities through male stereotypes is problematic."

Your response:

And then:


send me the dimensions of your skull; I simply must study you

EDIT:

I mean gaht-damn, banger for fucking banger of flagrant and confident misunderstanding of points and just all-out unironically hilarious wording

View attachment 7616359

What am I misunderstanding
 
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You're just assuming the women are watching yaoi to self insert into "the weaker man" or that a woman is inserting at all. Not everyone is narc enough that they need to "see" themselves in the media they consume.
Faggot porn definitely rotted your esl brain, holy shit :story:

The fact that to you female characters being loved by men is always a matter of self-inserting says a lot. Sure, you are not like those shallow self-inserting bimbos, for you have chosen the cuckqueen chair! So feminist, so liberating!
If youre not attracted to women, why would you want to involve women in shipping
Pure autism. Let me share a secret — straight women love straight shit. Liking homo shit and empathising with male image over your own is misogynistic pooner core. It's unhealthy for a straight woman to like gay male sex, it's a sign of her outlooks on her object of attraction and her own sex being warped.

Yaoi is all about men being superior and their relationships between each other being more "equal and pure" than if they were with any "over-emotional weak wahmen". And this kind of mentality is dominant irl already — men will always choose to respect and impress each other while women fade into the background.

It's a sad reality of life, but why you fujoshits choose it in your fantasy realm too?

This is why I call you cucks, by the way, not out of some "self-insert thing being superior" mentality. You choose roman patriarchy ideas and seal clap at the idea of women being worthless to men.


Killing Stalking close to "the most popular yaoi" for one, its also not very good

It's been one of the most popular fujoshit choices, what are you taking about? And may I remind you that in it the seme kills lots of wahmen but some faggot uke is his only exception? Oh wait he is totally "straight" and "there's no romance", he just fucks this dude and has tensions with him pages upon pages because this man, somehow, reminds him of his mother. Clear cope from misogynistic fujocunt of an author after her violent cuck porn caught attention of the public.

Im not confused by the "concept of being a heterosexual woman" I'm a literal heterosexual woman.
You are but you are so insecure in being a woman, you only see a male as deserving of hot men and having cool dynamics with them in fiction. You are a handmaiden and a faghag, through and through. You dropped your self-respect as a woman in a pile of shit left after some faggot orgy.
 
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Pure autism. Let me share a secret — straight women love straight shit.
Define "straight shit". I'm a straight woman and I dislike most straight romance and erotica.
I don't hate myself, it's just that it's objectively trash.
 
Idk, but if the only way you can get off is thinking about gay men fucking, and you think that's normal and a good thing, I can't give you any better advice than "maybe don't do that?" I'd say the same to a straight man who's obsessed with lesbians, except I'd also tell him to kill himself slowly and painfully.
Why the unequal advice to what seems (at face value) equal situations?

Not intending to start an argument, just curious for what's beyond the face value.
 
Why the unequal advice to what seems (at face value) equal situations?

Not intending to start an argument, just curious for what's beyond the face value.
One hates herself and can only see men as properly human, the other wants to rape lesbians because it turns him on. The next logical step up from being a fujo is being a pooner who cries on Reddit about getting bullied by real fags on Grindr. The next logical step up from being a straight man who fetishizes lesbians is being a "cotton ceiling" troon who demands that lesbians suck his girlcock.
 
One hates herself and can only see men as properly human, the other wants to rape lesbians because it turns him on. The next logical step up from being a fujo is being a pooner who cries on Reddit about getting bullied by real fags on Grindr. The next logical step up from being a straight man who fetishizes lesbians is being a "cotton ceiling" troon who demands that lesbians suck his girlcock.
Thanks. Hadn't heard of cotton ceiling before, lmao.
 
"Smut" and "spicy" books and series aimed at women (like shit by Sarah J. Maas) frequently feature coerced sex and dubious consent in their novels. Shit where it'll be like "he pins my wrists to the bed and puts his fingers in my pussy without asking and starts masturbating me. I struggle and feel wet but I'm so powerless, oh no I came!!!!! The big strong man, who is a fairy-wolf hybrid, made me cum and I just don't know how to say no or even if I should!!!!" Pick up any "romantasy" "novel" and you'll find coercion, dubcon, manipulation, and very obviously, poorly written sexual dynamics that amount to little more than rape.
I am against this subtle moulding of women to eroticize their own degradation and powerlessness. This 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em mentality' or 'it's not rape if I enjoy it'. That line of thinking is extremely problematic as some victims may orgasm from the fear and nervous stimulation, it still doesn't mean they weren't raped. The memory of the orgasm can indundate them with guilt and torment them. If it was unwanted when it began, it's rape.

I guess this has been said before but the enduring popularity of CNC is down to 1. An ego boost for the woman that someone almost godlike, superhumanly attractive finds her beauty so irresistible, he loses control.
2. No guilt at desiring and enjoying being pleasured because he initiates while she lies back and lets herself enjoy it. She's not a dirty seductress, she's a goddess who brings these inhumanly powerful creatures to their knees with a mere glance.

Girls see how their 'pretty' peers are treated by adults and boys alike. The social payoff from looking good as a woman is huge. They inevitably start measuring their social status, potential and even self worth in terms of how physically appealing they are. These books take that fantasy of being beautiful and sexually desirable to its extreme.

It's all a jumble of patriarchal conditioning, ultimately. CNC is an oxymoron, it's not REALLY non consensual.

Although silence doesn't mean consent (and now I'm writing this, its dawning upon me how problematic this can become), her withholding the expression of enthusiastic consent is because she wants to keep him guessing and see how much he wants her, like she's granting him a privilege.

I do know that in some of this material she even manages to squeak a 'no' or put up weak resistance because she wants to remain the good girl, untainted. Her meek protests are brushed aside of course.

Sadly, a lot these novels progress from the woman enjoying cunnilingus etc to her being bound, exhibited, beaten, passed around, kept as a sex slave. Hardcore abuse. I guess the authors feel mere lovemaking won't fill 70-150 pages or hold the readers' attention so they take the shock and awe, escalation route.

Okay, when I started writing this it was to contrast these fantasies/CNC with actual rape, I'll still say it's not that women actually want to be raped by ugly, fusty, hirsute moids. But now I think of it, it does tacitly contribute to the blurring of women's sexual boundaries, especially when the other party is someone she's attracted to and likes. It makes her ripe for real world abuse, coercive control and manipulation -- because its worth it if she's loved. 🤔
 
But now I think of it, it does tacitly contribute to the blurring of women's sexual boundaries, especially when the other party is someone she's attracted to and likes. It makes her ripe for real world abuse, coercive control and manipulation -- because its worth it if she's loved. 🤔
CNC is to rape as choking is to strangulation. Women are damaging their brains with this stuff just so men can turn around and use it as a criminal defense. Man strangles woman to death, man tells police that it was an accident and that she asked him to do it. Man rapes woman, man tells police that it was actually CNC and she asked him to do it. It's never that he had violent sexual desires, it's that she wanted to be abused, and he couldn't say no to her.

When they say "women don't take accountability" they mean "women won't let me blame them for my actions." If it can be used as an excuse for male violence, rest assured it will be. The only way to win is not to play.
 
There's another Yaoi argument going on in this thread that was made to contain the Yaoi off-topicness in Stinkditch:

 
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