Communism debate nuance edition

[MMS-China]

Difference being economy of China is collapsing and society is regressing to Maoism+: purging boogaloo! Communism failed China and hard which is why you pussied out mega thread, you can't stand being laughed and simp authotarian regimes that would you send to labor camps. US is nowhere near Brazil or south African levels (Brazil is run by Venezuela tier commies, you should love the place since it's in BRICS)

Let's look at Taiwan then. That's pretty much a US controlled China-adjacent nation.



Sorry, not interested Western imperialist.

 

[Glowie]

That's like saying capitalism is inherently a failure because the US is full of people from Guatemala, a capitalist country which has elected mostly conservative governments in the past 20 years. A developed country is always going to be more attractive than a developing country for immigration. Comparing developing nations to developed nations is not a fair comparison, especially since my point has always been simply that communism does some things better than capitalism.

People tend to flee from shitholes when they can and leave fantasist lolbergs screaming being in being extreme minority, nothing short of extreme political shift can alter demographics, said ideologies do the opposite see China for example and North Korea where worship of Jung is only acceptable form of worship and culture. Historical Korea wiped from the nation and history. India adopting free market economy and capitalism preserves more of it's culture and religion unlike it's neighbors China for instance and Pakistan muddled it's culture and religion with Muslim terror cells.

Nope, that's not my stance. Here's a good overview of why government regulation is incompatible with a truly free market. I'm going to trust people who actually advocate the free market like Mises and Rothbard instead of neoliberal simps who claim they are AKSHUALLY capitalists (they aren't). Mises and Rothbard linked their economic views to classical liberalism which is correct since an actually free market without government intervention will look like the Guilded Age where corporations get away with as much shit as they possibly can. Remember, Karl Marx wrote in the Communist Manifesto many things which were eventually established in the US--unsurprisingly Marx was a big fan of Lincoln (who expanded government power).

2 year college history grad, neetbux, lack of life experience and practical knowledge. You're so precious I could pinch your weeb cheek. Learn to work with the system and cards given to you instead live in theory, I know myself Libertarian rules appeal in a world which will kick your ass for dating life a life of passion and get crushed under bootheel of big corporation if you dare start a business. Which will happen in libertarian free market economy anyway. Ironic that you wouldn't enjoy benefit under classical liberalism and lack of welfare system or Libertarianism which would see things like anime degenerate.

Isn't ironic the very ideology you support would eat you whole?

Already proved in this post with evidence such as Stalin providing aid to Ukraine (something Hitler never did when he created famines). Claiming there ever was a specific thing as the Holodomor is like saying that FDR was genociding Oklahomans during the Dust Bowl. Yes, there was a famine in Ukraine (like there was in southern Russia, Kazakhstan, and Belarus), and people died. Meanwhile Ukrainians routinely held high-ranking posts in the party and military, in stark contrast to an actually genocidal country like Nazi Germany where you could count the number of prominent Jews on one hand (i.e. Erhard Milch and Emil Maurice), all of whom officially denied their Jewish ancestry.

Funny thing none of your sources and accusations aren't proven by reputable sources and hinge on the straw that nazi wartime propaganda, which pathetic attempt to look credible. Soviets killed Gareth Jones who knew lid on failed collectivization turned starvation, somehow Nazis managed to go back in time 8 years (For a history bachelor you should knows Hunger Plan/Operation Barbarossa happened in 1941) and to 1980 Soviet Union and somehow manipulate every non Soviet perspectives and correspondence, document about the great famine of 1932-1933.

Your claims hinge on debunked nazi propaganda that no-one bought after WW 2 outside one Canadian Union worker. Majority of Academia in Europe who saw effects of these atrocities first hand and your statements clings to most strenuous of conspiracy theories (What's with you and your capability finding and trusting Alex Jones tier conspiracy mills like global research?)

There was never a 'point of no return" because Kazakhstan literally restored a chunk of the Aral Sea just a few years ago. Claiming the Aral Sea was always some horrible, awful disaster is like claiming that California is a disaster because the rivers and bays are full of toxins and floods are caused by the ground subsiding in places and if the government isn't spending a fuckton of money will cause Aral Sea-tier shit (and already has, ever hear of Owens Lake?). Add science to another subject you clearly have no knowledge on.

Only a small chunk was repairable(Small Sea). Since you lack knowledge of basic geology and water irrigation you fail to understand scale and scope of Soviet fuck up, they started permanently draining biggest inland waterbody to fuel cotton farm projects of theirs, strong finds and sun slowly turned the diminishing waterbody into a progressing of toxic salt, Soviets did fuck all and destitute post Soviet states weren't able to do anything
As a result Aral Sea is now dead

There was no back after what Soviets first started, you can't fill entire waterbody with nanofibre thin budget.

Soviets fucked up black sea too

 

[Zbk3VmLfujjzjxBd43tL]

People tend to flee from shitholes when they can and leave fantasist lolbergs screaming being in being extreme minority, nothing short of extreme political shift can alter demographics, said ideologies do the opposite see China for example and North Korea where worship of Jung is only acceptable form of worship and culture. Historical Korea wiped from the nation and history. India adopting free market economy and capitalism preserves more of it's culture and religion unlike it's neighbors China for instance and Pakistan muddled it's culture and religion with Muslim terror cells.

Shows how much you know about North Korea given the country is very much Confucian with a Marxist veneer (and not even that since they removed all references to Marxism in their constitution). Most North Koreans outside of Pyongyang for better or worse still live and worship like 19th century Joseon with the House of Yi replaced with the Kims. They celebrate and elevate traditional Korean culture and are an ethnostate. Meanwhile South Korea is an empty consoomer hellhole promoting Americanized filth like K-pop (globalist-backed subversion of Asian culture).

You also neglected the giant problem India has with Hindu extremist mobs lynching Muslims or inciting riots. Or the fact India is poorer and until very recently has almost always had lower GDP growth. Or that it's just as polluted as China and the only difference is they didn't have Maoists destroy their temples since Muzzies did it back in the Delhi Sultanate/Mughal days.

2 year college history grad, neetbux, lack of life experience and practical knowledge. You're so precious I could pinch your weeb cheek. Learn to work with the system and cards given to you instead live in theory, I know myself Libertarian rules appeal in a world which will kick your ass for dating life a life of passion and get crushed under bootheel of big corporation if you dare start a business. Which will happen in libertarian free market economy anyway. Ironic that you wouldn't enjoy benefit under classical liberalism and lack of welfare system or Libertarianism which would see things like anime degenerate.

Isn't ironic the very ideology you support would eat you whole?

LMAO are you trying to call me a libertarian now? I guess it's as true as everything else you posted. Sounds like some basic economic facts on why "regulatory capitalism" is not capitalism at all broke your brain. Care to argue why that Rothbard and Mises are wrong and government regulation is actually totally capitalism and not just socialist intrusion on the free market?

Funny thing none of your sources and accusations aren't proven by reputable sources and hinge on the straw that nazi wartime propaganda, which pathetic attempt to look credible. Soviets killed Gareth Jones who knew lid on failed collectivization turned starvation, somehow Nazis managed to go back in time 8 years (For a history bachelor you should knows Hunger Plan/Operation Barbarossa happened in 1941) and to 1980 Soviet Union and somehow manipulate every non Soviet perspectives and correspondence, document about the great famine of 1932-1933.

Your claims hinge on debunked nazi propaganda that no-one bought after WW 2 outside one Canadian Union worker. Majority of Academia in Europe who saw effects of these atrocities first hand and your statements clings to most strenuous of conspiracy theories (What's with you and your capability finding and trusting Alex Jones tier conspiracy mills like global research?)

It's Nazi propaganda that the Soviets didn't deliberately starve millions? At this point you're just babbling nonsense since you know nothing about either the Nazis or Soviets, or even what I just posted. Fact is that actual evidence shows that 1, a famine happened killing 2-3 million and 2, this famine happened in many places beside the Ukraine, and 3, Stalin sent aid to alleviate it. You don't know any of this because 1, you have never actually studied it and 2, you can barely comprehend it due to your lack of ability to read and write English. Very ironic you call it "Nazi" when an actual elected Neo-Nazi like Artem Semenikhin (whose license plate says 14/8 believes the so-called Holodomor was done by Jews.

It's also rich you're calling it a "conspiracy theory" when the idea that Kiwifarms is anything but a far-right website devoted to harassing and murdering transgenders and autistic people is also a "conspiracy theory" according to reliable sources. The facts align--you've never given any evidence that it hasn't.

Only a small chunk was repairable(Small Sea). Since you lack knowledge of basic geology and water irrigation you fail to understand scale and scope of Soviet fuck up, they started permanently draining biggest inland waterbody to fuel cotton farm projects of theirs, strong finds and sun slowly turned the diminishing waterbody into a progressing of toxic salt, Soviets did fuck all and destitute post Soviet states weren't able to do anything

You clearly don't know what you're talking about, so I'll spoil it--they built a dam to concentrate remaining water in one place. If they wanted to, they could release more water to the lake by reducing the amount given to cotton farms or increasing efficiency of irrigation. It's literally the same thing they do in California.

 

[Glowie]

Shows how much you know about North Korea given the country is very much Confucian with a Marxist veneer (and not even that since they removed all references to Marxism in their constitution). Most North Koreans outside of Pyongyang for better or worse still live and worship like 19th century Joseon with the House of Yi replaced with the Kims. They celebrate and elevate traditional Korean culture and are an ethnostate. Meanwhile South Korea is an empty consoomer hellhole promoting Americanized filth like K-pop (globalist-backed subversion of Asian culture).

North Korea is authotarian with leader centric cult of worship of personality
Kim regime is antithesis to Confucian values of justice, self disciplined and concern of welfare of p

You also neglected the giant problem India has with Hindu extremist mobs lynching Muslims or inciting riots. Or the fact India is poorer and until very recently has almost always had lower GDP growth. Or that it's just as polluted as China and the only difference is they didn't have Maoists destroy their temples since Muzzies did it back in the Delhi Sultanate/Mughal days

One those mobs happen to be Kerala, Marxists trying to instigate fights and anarchy as per socialist playbook Here

LMAO are you trying to call me a libertarian now? I guess it's as true as everything else you posted. Sounds like some basic economic facts on why "regulatory capitalism" is not capitalism at all broke your brain. Care to argue why that Rothbard and Mises are wrong and government regulation is actually totally capitalism and not just socialist intrusion on the free market?

Inability to prove that unregulated market and society works outside theory duly noted, spoken like a true college classic liberal, moaning about system you are part of and take advantage of.
Tell me how did you get your students loans for your useless degree? That's right your local Bank.
Oh your benefits that to you apply for and life off from, that's liberal behaviour alright.
You larp in a society which made you what you are
Unregulated free market works only in theory, which yet has to be seen in practice.

Nazi propaganda that the Soviets didn't deliberately starve millions? At this point you're just babbling nonsense since you know nothing about either the Nazis or Soviets, or even what I just posted. Fact is that actual evidence shows that 1, a famine happened killing 2-3 million and 2, this famine happened in many places beside the Ukraine, and 3, Stalin sent aid to alleviate it. You don't know any of this because 1, you have never actually studied it and 2, you can barely comprehend it due to your lack of ability to read and write English. Very ironic you call it "Nazi" when an actual elected Neo-Nazi like Artem Semenikhin (whose license plate says 14/8 believes the so-called Holodomor was done by Jews.

Congratulations proving Berezemov right about three generations brainwashing. You were given a document that are from countries that saw worst nazi atrocities had to offer, since you can't refute studies you sent on a infantile rage, reword and misrepresent any inconvenient arguments. Nazis used war propaganda that much is true. However claiming that refutes decades worth of studies, journalists and Soviet archives is truly desperate attempt to deny Holomdomor. I know it's hard for self loathing autistics to avoid cognitive dissonance, you are breaking records here, little guy. Calm down and learn to read

You clearly don't know what you're talking about, so I'll spoil it--they built a dam to concentrate remaining water in one place. If they wanted to, they could release more water to the lake by reducing the amount given to cotton farms or increasing efficiency of irrigation. It's literally the same thing they do in California.

Irrelevant comparison, doesn't dismiss the fact Soviets slowly redirected entire Aral Sea while treating it as dumping ground and ignoring the problem. Soviets fucked up royally and left former member states destitute and left them to their own devices, you've read multiple sources by now and Soviet acccounts how biggest waterbody was turning into a desert and how they managed to ruin part of black sea while they were at. Other waterbodies as well (Kramer 1974) attached to this post.

 

[CAPTAIN HAPPY]

Let's look at Taiwan then. That's pretty much a US controlled China-adjacent nation.

View attachment 5479405

Sorry, not interested Western imperialist.

Now let us look at China.

 

[MMS-China]

Now let us look at China.
View attachment 5484763

Really? Though I should expect that from NAFO.

 

[BirdUp]

this debate is so gay and socialism/cronyism has been disproven so many times ITT
the only thing socialism is good at is suppressing homosexuality (until the USSR et al decided to improve their image and paint the US as evil imperialist racists)

 

[DagothUr]

what a backwards nightmare reality we live in where commies are le based trad nationalists. No less that it's the CCP, what with the Cultural Revolution and all.

 

[Zbk3VmLfujjzjxBd43tL]

North Korea is authotarian with leader centric cult of worship of personality
Kim regime is antithesis to Confucian values of justice, self disciplined and concern of welfare of p

Doesn't change the fact they defacto style themselves as Confucian rulers. All three Kims frequently give hands-on guidance to "ordinary" business owners and their every action in state propaganda is highlighted as improving the welfare of the people and removing corruption. They use Korean history as precedents for their own rule and link themselves to past Korean rulers. Therefore, North Korea is a Confucian country because its leadership is actively styling their regime that way.

One those mobs happen to be Kerala, Marxists trying to instigate fights and anarchy as per socialist playbook Here

Cool news article, care to actually debate the point I brought up?

Congratulations proving Berezemov right about three generations brainwashing. You were given a document that are from countries that saw worst nazi atrocities had to offer, since you can't refute studies you sent on a infantile rage, reword and misrepresent any inconvenient arguments. Nazis used war propaganda that much is true. However claiming that refutes decades worth of studies, journalists and Soviet archives is truly desperate attempt to deny Holomdomor. I know it's hard for self loathing autistics to avoid cognitive dissonance, you are breaking records here, little guy. Calm down and learn to read

So...can you actually argue the point instead of screeching insults and screaming "conspiracy theory" at anything that disproves your point? I think the PDFs linked to that post are plenty proof but you've gotta stick to your precious narrative of 7 million little Tarases and Mykolas starved by big bad Uncle Joe in his quest for Total Hohol Death.

Irrelevant comparison, doesn't dismiss the fact Soviets slowly redirected entire Aral Sea while treating it as dumping ground and ignoring the problem. Soviets fucked up royally and left former member states destitute and left them to their own devices, you've read multiple sources by now and Soviet acccounts how biggest waterbody was turning into a desert and how they managed to ruin part of black sea while they were at. Other waterbodies as well (Kramer 1974) attached to this post.

Totally relevant comparison since cotton is one of the largest exports of California yet is ill-suited to the extremely dry climate in much of the state. I have proven that California has both severe water and environmental issues because the state tries to balance both, yet is able to balance both because like the USSR the economy is diversified enough to support it. You asserted that it was "irreversible" but it clearly wasn't as I demonstrated. Once again, you just ignore every post that proves you wrong or try and claim it's whatever logical fallacy you pull from a hat instead of actually arguing the point.

Since you were sperging about beach erosion along the Black Sea (I take it you've never actually read that source), do note that happens literally everywhere people are, here's the United Airlines CEO getting busted for stealing sand and here's some stuff about Florida beach erosion. It's not a problem exclusive or unique to communism, and nor is environmental disasters. That paper was published in the 1970s, the same decade the river in Cleveland caught fire and Love Canal was evacuated. The US is cleaner now because we have so little industry compared to then.

what a backwards nightmare reality we live in where commies are le based trad nationalists. No less that it's the CCP, what with the Cultural Revolution and all.

It's the fact that commie countries stopped moving against tradition and their own culture decades and decades ago while the West regularly hits new lows every year. That's Clown World for you.

 

[CAPTAIN HAPPY]

Really? Though I should expect that from NAFO.

I'm surprised you wouldn't expect immense degeneracy among an uncontrollable elite.

 

[MMS-China]

I'm surprised you wouldn't expect immense degeneracy among an uncontrollable elite.

Just tell me how the Epstein case is going.

 

[CAPTAIN HAPPY]

Just tell me how the Epstein case is going.

With Epstein there at least was a case.
Xi could eat a live baby on livestream and there wouldn't be a case.

 

[Glowie]

Cool news article, care to actually debate the point I brought up?

I thought you hated Gish Galloping, buddy

Totally relevant comparison since cotton is one of the largest exports of California yet is ill-suited to the extremely dry climate in much of the state. I have proven that California has both severe water and environmental issues because the state tries to balance both, yet is able to balance both because like the USSR the economy is diversified enough to support it. You asserted that it was "irreversible" but it clearly wasn't as I demonstrated. Once again, you just ignore every post that proves you wrong or try and claim it's whatever logical fallacy you pull from a hat instead of actually arguing the point.

Any and all red herrings and false equivalences will be ignored in order to stay one topic failing of communism and failings of USSR, CCP in general now for the environment. You admitted yourself that soviets built a dam to divert water from Aral Sea, Soviet scientists noticed signs of desertification since 1950s, something completely irreversible since majority is salt filled desert. Only Kazakhstan managed to save "small sea"
Record of sockets ruining nature are highlighted on pages and sources below.




Soviet union dumping nuclear weapons into their own lakes
Baikal river pollution and River Vuoksi
Since you didn't read material that I gave in "Bad faith" I'll forcefeed you. I would be all day if I covered environmental crimes of Soviet Union. I'll cover CCP later on.

So...can you actually argue the point instead of screeching insults and screaming "conspiracy theory" at anything that disproves your point? I think the PDFs linked to that post are plenty proof but you've gotta stick to your precious narrative of 7 million little Tarases and Mykolas starved by big bad Uncle Joe in his quest for Total Hohol Death.

Grain harvest quotas are nice and all if you weren't busy ignoring the key facts on both of your sources, collectivization, gathering grain by metric ton and Stalin backpedaling his decision once news of the famine (By the way read your own material next time)




There was a famine and it wasn't natural. Ukraine's rural population was 22 million, people fled to cities only to face bread shortage
Your paper back up studies from Harvard university 4~ million dead from starvation
Moreover Stalin exported grain from Ukraine

Summary: Commies do not give a single shit the about environment or value human lives.

 

[AMHOLIO]

This is all a glowie op. Source: he literally has glowie as his name. Manmade famines are fake, change my mind!

 

[BirdUp]

i am literally a capitalist shill

 

[Samson Pumpkin Jr.]

Doesn't change the fact they defacto style themselves as Confucian rulers. All three Kims frequently give hands-on guidance to "ordinary" business owners and their every action in state propaganda is highlighted as improving the welfare of the people and removing corruption. They use Korean history as precedents for their own rule and link themselves to past Korean rulers. Therefore, North Korea is a Confucian country because its leadership is actively styling their regime that way.

Both Koreas have used Confucianism to varying degrees to justify their rule. Notably, South Korea takes certain elements of Confucianism while rejecting others because they're "outdated." Confucianism is just used as a political tool. When Confucian principles were inconvenient for the DPRK, they tried to tear them down. For example, early on in North Korea, they banned feudal clan systems and customs that were based on Confucianism. It was convenient to embrace Confucianism when it came to the line of succession for the Kim family cult. Neither Korean state is founded on Confucianism. One is a secular republic and the other a dictatorship of the proletariat. I just believe North Korea embraces Confucianism out of convenience and would drop it at the first sign of trouble. What North Korea will never drop is communism because that is the true basis of its state.

Edit: One of the foundations of Confucianism is relations within families. Confucianism is very patriarchal, it is an iron law that a woman must obey three men in her life: Her father, her husband and her eldest son. One of North Korea's first reforms was "The Law on Sex Equality," passed in 1946 whose many articles actively do away with the old Confucian order and bring in new, socialist ideals.

Citation: Political Uses of Confucianism in North Korea, Jin Woong Kang.

I will come up with a better way to include citations, but they won't be formatted in a way that's academically correct.

 

[Agamemnon Busmalis]

You even mentioned it yourself. Under the USSR it was very much sustainable because they had money to maintain it and weren't trying to maintain an economy based almost entirely on cotton like Uzbekistan was. There's a lot to criticize about the Aral Sea disaster, but ultimately the cotton project was no different than the great aqueducts and canals of California.

The problem is the USSR's economy was increasingly unable to do that as the 1970s dragged on and by the early 1980s was in serious trouble due to the collapse in oil prices that had propped up a lot of sectors in the preceding decade. The leadership just didn't have the same kind of initiative or open-mindedness to new ideas and reforms that existed in the 1950s and 1960s under Khrushchev.

Brezhnev was only focused on raw quantities and not the quality of the outputs or their costs, so the lands and water used to grow cotton were contaminated with toxic chemicals and fertilizers and investment wasn't made to any degree necessary to fix the problem.

Same thing happened with Magnitogorsk, he didn't want to invest in retooling the MMK when Kosygin proposed it in the 1960s and so by the collapse of the USSR it was an utterly outdated environmental disaster (especially on the left bank) producing nothing but junk steel nobody wanted to buy.

 

[Zbk3VmLfujjzjxBd43tL]

I thought you hated Gish Galloping, buddy

I see you're just ignoring my arguments again when you run out of strawmen nonsense. Got bored trying to assert that "regulatory capitalism" is actually capitalism?

Soviet union dumping nuclear weapons into their own lakes
Baikal river pollution and River Vuoksi
Since you didn't read material that I gave in "Bad faith" I'll forcefeed you. I would be all day if I covered environmental crimes of Soviet Union. I'll cover CCP later on.

I read that PDF you posted, it says absolutely nothing other than that like every industrialized nation, the Soviet Union did a lot of shit with its environment. I'll raise you coastal erosion in California and Florida, the cancer belt along the Louisiana coastline caused by oil refineries, Love Canal, Cuyahoga River, the Great Lakes being a polluted hellhole, Owens Lake, the Chesepeake Bay being an ecological dead zone, the government lying about the extent of nuclear radiation leaking from the Hanford site into the Columbia River (that one's just this year!), etc.

Since none of those are a result inherent to capitalism, it is disingenuous to state that their Soviet or Chinese equivalents are inherent to communism.

Any and all red herrings and false equivalences will be ignored in order to stay one topic failing of communism and failings of USSR, CCP in general now for the environment. You admitted yourself that soviets built a dam to divert water from Aral Sea, Soviet scientists noticed signs of desertification since 1950s, something completely irreversible since majority is salt filled desert. Only Kazakhstan managed to save "small sea"

Protip: Screaming "false equivalence" doesn't win you the argument. If you can't prove that the Aral Sea project was a failure specifically because of communism (which you haven't), then you haven't proved anything. I doubt you can since you can't even read my argument correctly, nor understand what you're even arguing about hence why you believe the Soviets diverted water directly from the sea or that the disaster was irreversible instead of just a matter of using water differently. Although dams kind of are to blame, given the dams on the rivers which post-USSR are now completely unregulated in terms of the water they release hence why the sea got a lot worse in the 90s.

Record of sockets ruining nature are highlighted on pages and sources below.

You're trying to put beach erosion on the same level as the Aral Sea disaster AND trying to link it to something specific with communism. Absolutely laughable. CLEARLY it's those damn dirty capitalists who do it worse by making their citizens rich enough to buy houses on cliffs in California!

There was a famine and it wasn't natural. Ukraine's rural population was 22 million, people fled to cities only to face bread shortage
Your paper back up studies from Harvard university 4~ million dead from starvation
Moreover Stalin exported grain from Ukraine

Summary: Commies do not give a single shit the about environment or value human lives.

None of which I ever contested. Meanwhile you are trying to assert an inflated death toll and claiming it was some action designed to destroy the Ukrainian people, a "Holodomor." There was no Holodomor because it was just widespread famine in the USSR and there was no Ukraine-specific persecution at the time given Stalin arrested and murdered people from every nationality in the USSR.

 

[Glowie]

I read that PDF you posted, it says absolutely nothing other than that like every industrialized nation, the Soviet Union did a lot of shit with its environment. I'll raise you coastal erosion in California and Florida, the cancer belt along the Louisiana coastline caused by oil refineries, Love Canal, Cuyahoga River, the Great Lakes being a polluted hellhole, Owens Lake, the Chesepeake Bay being an ecological dead zone, the government lying about the extent of nuclear radiation leaking from the Hanford site into the Columbia River (that one's just this year!), etc.

I read that PDF you posted, it says absolutely nothing other than that like every industrialized nation, the Soviet Union did a lot of shit with its environment. I'll raise you coastal erosion in California and Florida, the cancer belt along the Louisiana coastline caused by oil refiner

Protip: Screaming "false equivalence" doesn't win you the argument. If you can't prove that the Aral Sea project was a failure specifically because of communism (which you haven't), then you haven't proved anything. I doubt you can since you can't even read my argument correctly, nor understand what you're even arguing about hence why you believe the Soviets diverted water directly from the sea or that the disaster was irreversible instead of just a matter of using water differently. Although dams kind of are to blame, given the dams on the rivers which post-USSR are now completely unregulated in terms of the water they release hence why the sea got a lot worse in the

T. Failed to read every source that I linked and ignore the fact soviets didn't do anything to reverse the disaster and left the former Soviet corrupt republics to their own devices. Soviets could've closed dams at any point, but they didn't. Stop trying shift the blame here and bring bring up More distractions that supposedly strengthen the your argument, It doesn't

You're trying to put beach erosion on the same level as the Aral Sea disaster AND trying to link it to something specific with communism. Absolutely laughable. CLEARLY it's those damn dirty capitalists who do it worse by making their citizens rich enough to buy houses on cliffs in California!

I didn't compare, I listed results of USSR, retarded handling of the environment, stupid

None of which I ever contested. Meanwhile you are trying to assert an inflated death toll and claiming it was some action designed to destroy the Ukrainian people, a "Holodomor." There was no Holodomor because it was just widespread famine in the USSR and there was no Ukraine-specific persecution at the time given Stalin arrested and murdered people from every nationality in the USSR.

University studies and other sources round 4 million deaths in Ukraine alone, which is Holodomor. I stated this number and multiple sources support this claim, your papers too ironically enough, in the author states famine wasn't natural and this was talking about Ukraine specifically. Now what people call intentional starvation of 4 million people? Genocide by hunger or Holodomor, are you going against your own, accounts from former Soviet republics and university studies with weak comeback "Well akshually there was famine through Soviet Union" well no shit Sherlock that was an astute observation! Name Soviet republic that was targeted by Stalin and had 4 dead. Commies and their modern versions reject Holomdomor, that sounds oddly familiar. No-one is denying manmade famine of 1932 which totals 8 million, half of which were Ukrainians you keep claiming this number is inflated without proof, I might

View attachment 5485326
This is all a glowie op. Source: he literally has glowie as his name. Manmade famines are fake, change my mind!

I am a CIA nigger with sources on my knee I heard this guy like CIA, so here I and I'm glowing core of Chernobyl.

Here to entertain and see how some denies genocide, deliberate destruction of nature and decline of living standards! Grab some snacks, tacos! We don't have chicks though, background music is possible.

 

[Samson Pumpkin Jr.]

The problem is the USSR's economy was increasingly unable to do that as the 1970s dragged on and by the early 1980s was in serious trouble due to the collapse in oil prices that had propped up a lot of sectors in the preceding decade. The leadership just didn't have the same kind of initiative or open-mindedness to new ideas and reforms that existed in the 1950s and 1960s under Khrushchev.

Focusing on oil, I don't believe there's really that much difference between the oil industry in the USSR compared to western countries. Oil shares similarities with other extraction industries where they have to heavily refine the product before it can be used. In the west, large vertically integrated oil producers tend to own their outlets for distribution, like gas stations. These gasoline retail businesses show characteristics of a monopoly or oligopoly where a single business controls the prices in a given region of a country. If the USSR had been dependent on oil, like Saudi Arabia, it would've been stable even through the period of declining oil prices SINCE the USSR probably didn't export crude oil. The USSR probably had a state monopoly on the production and refinement of oil. In other words, it was vertically integrated. The price of crude oil may fluctuate greatly, but gasoline is more stable. The USSR was probably selling gasoline at more stable prices compared to crude oil at unstable prices.

That being said, I concede that it's possible the USSR mismanaged its oil industry. Throughout its history, the oil industry has been subject to more government intervention because of the importance energy has for the modern world.