Islamophiles / Regressive Left - Liberal non-Muslims who are desperate to protect the Religion of Peace

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The Quran calls for Jihad against both nonbelievers and hypocrites. As far as I can tell a hypocrite is simply a Muslim with slightly different beliefs than you and they're probably much easier to find when you live in a Muslim majority area.
Hey @Ntwadumela

Quran Chapter 9 Verse 73
"O Prophet, fight against the disbelievers and the hypocrites and be harsh upon them. And their refuge is Hell, and wretched is the destination."

What I said is in the Quran and as far as I can tell my interpretation of how at least some Muslims use the term hypocrite is accurate.
 
Hey @Ntwadumela

Quran Chapter 9 Verse 73
"O Prophet, fight against the disbelievers and the hypocrites and be harsh upon them. And their refuge is Hell, and wretched is the destination."

What I said is in the Quran and as far as I can tell my interpretation of how at least some Muslims use the term hypocrite is accurate.
The verse in particular is only towards those who instigate and attack Muslims and the Prophet himself. The context you're viewing it in is not the same context it's supposed to be viewed in.
Additionally there's a verse in Suraat Al Baqara that translates to "There is no compulsion in religion."
https://islamqa.info/en/84308
 
The verse in particular is only towards those who instigate and attack Muslims and the Prophet himself. The context you're viewing it in is not the same context it's supposed to be viewed in.
Additionally there's a verse in Suraat Al Baqara that translates to "There is no compulsion in religion."
https://islamqa.info/en/84308
You might be right, but is that how every Muslim interprets that verse? I realize I may have not articulated my original point as well as I should have. I should have said that's how it seems to have been used in certain cases.

My understanding of the verse you cited was that it was later cancelled out or at least contradicted by other verses. Chapter 9 verse 29 says to fight unbelievers until they convert or pay a tax. That doesn't sound like no compulsion to me. So which is it?
 
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You might be right, but is that how every Muslim interprets that verse?

My understanding of the verse you cited was that it was later cancelled out or at least contradicted by other verses. Chapter 9 verse 29 says to fight unbelievers until they convert or pay a tax. That doesn't sound like no compulsion to me. So which is it?
Aha. You got me there. The problem with people today are varying interpretations and not a single unifying one.
Although that same chapter and verse is applied only in self defense. As people back then were often hostile towards the Prophet and the early Muslims. You'd expect someone being attacked to defend himself, not surrender in cowardice.
With the previous verse I've mentioned logically THIS is the case.
 
My point isn't "all Muslims are shit," which isn't true anyway, but "Muslims aren't automatically immune to criticism."

This pisses me off from leftists the most, because they will gladly scream obscenities and fling feces at any Christian who does anything remotely patriarchal, such as by simply saying something they dislike, but somehow, Islams literally throwing gay people off buildings to murder them is given a completely free pass.

It's the same shit, but while the Christians live in a civilized society where the worst you can do is say mean things, the Islams come from a culture where you can mutilate the genitals of small children, rape women or throw acid in their faces for expressing LIBERAL opinions, or whatever, somehow, "it's their culture" is an excuse. And they can somehow bring this shit culture into countries where humans live.

It's literally just schizophrenic, I've never understood it, and I refuse ever to put up with this bullshit.

I admit my red pill on this subject is Pat Condell, a really ranty angry YouTube atheist.
 
Aha. You got me there. The problem with people today are varying interpretations and not a single unifying one.
Although that same chapter and verse is applied only in self defense. As people back then were often hostile towards the Prophet and the early Muslims. You'd expect someone being attacked to defend himself, not surrender in cowardice.
With the previous verse I've mentioned logically THIS is the case.

Could you explain that one to me? I've read the entire chapter and while I do see a mention of fighting people who break treaties, which is understandable, it doesn't seem to apply to the whole chapter. And once again, even if you are correct this seems like something that could easily be used to justify violence.
 
Ah, the Khadija argument. I think that Khadija's story is very admirable. However, it's very important to remember that Khadija attained her success before Islam even existed. If anything, her life story affirms that things weren't that terrible for women before Islam. And how many women like Khadija were there after Islam? I'm sure there were quite a few, but still, let's not act like she's the poster child for Muslim women.
I've been reading a book called The People vs. Muhammad and it says some pretty interesting things about Khajida's relationship with him. It says that one day the archangel Gabriel appeared before Muhammad (which the author suspects is a sign of schizophrenia) and he couldn't tell if it was really Gabriel or Satan trying to play tricks on him. She sits him down on her lap with her pussy exposed and asks him if he can still see Gabriel. When he says no, she tells him it's because angels don't like to see exposed women.

This, by the way, is how she convinces Muhammad that he's a prophet.
 
Islam will chill the fuck out in 500 years or so like every other fanatically violent religion has.

The problem is the world doesn't have 500 years to wait for the autistic tard of current religions to quit throwing tard rages when they currently come with nukes, like Pakistan has.

Islam's about 1300 years old at this point. When Christianity was 1300 years old, they were fighting the Crusades and dying of dysentry.

If this is the crusading period of Islam, can you imagine how bloody their Reformation will be?
 
Islam's about 1300 years old at this point. When Christianity was 1300 years old, they were fighting the Crusades and dying of dysentry.

If this is the crusading period of Islam, can you imagine how bloody their Reformation will be?

That would be an ecumenical matter.
 
Islam will chill the fuck out in 500 years or so like every other fanatically violent religion has.

That's a big ol' case of too little, too late. Doesn't that usually require messianic revelations that overturn the old way? Nothing will really change their minds short of Muhammad coming down from the skies and telling them he changed his mind about the whole "killing infidels" thing. Maybe if somebody has a prophetic dream of Muhammad telling him violence is wrong, but that guy is likely going to get pelted with rocks until he stops breathing for such an obvious attempt at subverting the will of Allah.
 
That's a big ol' case of too little, too late. Doesn't that usually require messianic revelations that overturn the old way? Nothing will really change their minds short of Muhammad coming down from the skies and telling them he changed his mind about the whole "killing infidels" thing. Maybe if somebody has a prophetic dream of Muhammad telling him violence is wrong, but that guy is likely going to get pelted with rocks until he stops breathing for such an obvious attempt at subverting the will of Allah.

Martin Luther nailed a piece of paper to a church door and kicked off a couple of hundred years of violent religious conflict, some of which still hasn't subsided today.

Something like that saying such outrageous things such as 'Women should vote' might have a similar impact on Islam.
 
Martin Luther nailed a piece of paper to a church door and kicked off a couple of hundred years of violent religious conflict, some of which still hasn't subsided today.

Most of it doesn't involve constant terrorist attacks against random people. They've mostly calmed the fuck down.

Islam will probably do that too. It needs to be contained in the meantime.

I remain totally okay with people who want to escape Islamic countries to join modern humanity. These people should be welcome.

What shouldn't be welcome is savages and terrorists, of the sort that Germany seems to think every country in the EU should be forced to accept, even if they're openly rapists, want to kill every Jew alive, or even, when asked what they plan to do in the country they're trying to move into, openly say "I plan to be a terrorist."
 
The crusades were the result of Islam trying to invade the Iberian peninsula.
Do they know that?
Ehhhh... no not really... The Seljuk Turks were breathing down the necks of the Byzantines... and that led Issac Komennos the write the papacy asking for aid

Plus there are about 10 other causes I could get into...
 
I remain totally okay with people who want to escape Islamic countries to join modern humanity. These people should be welcome.

What shouldn't be welcome is savages and terrorists, of the sort that Germany seems to think every country in the EU should be forced to accept, even if they're openly rapists, want to kill every Jew alive, or even, when asked what they plan to do in the country they're trying to move into, openly say "I plan to be a terrorist."

Aside from the fact that flying in an entire armies worth of fighting-aged men who are openly violent towards your culture is just, you know, unbelievably stupid, it's also really insulting to any innocent refugees who had their entire lives torn apart just to escape these assholes. It's like giving your spare bedroom to a friend who's being beaten by her husband so she has a chance to rebuild her life, then a week later telling her he's going to be crashing on your couch for a while. How do you help this happen on a nation wide scale and not feel like a complete asshole?
 
We're getting a bit off-topic, so I'm gonna repost something I posted in the social justice warriors thread last year:

Massive tl;dr warning, I go all out on this one. But I think the read is worth it.

Muslims are the True Feminists
(archive)


Um, lol, okay. I'm not even going to bother addressing these points in order. Strap in everyone, you're in for a bumpy, rambling ride.
  • Alright, first and foremost, we need to address the core argument here, which the author has proposed thusly: "Woman who wear hijab have freed themselves from a man’s and a society’s judgmental gaze."I see this argument presented all the time, both from Muslims and Muslim-friendly feminists. They argue that Muslim women are more empowered because they're seen for their "minds" and not their bodies. Sorry, no, that's bullshit. I think it's fucking bullshit that, in order for women to "free" themselves from judgement, they have to completely cover their bodies. I'm not going to drape myself in yards of fabric to get men to respect me, and I can't believe a "feminist" is actually saying that it's a good idea. Maybe instead we should be telling men to respect women as fellow human beings regardless of what they're wearing (I'm not trying to throw shade at any men here, btw; in Western societies this is mostly the case already).
  • Wearing a hijab/niqab/burqa/etc is not a choice for far too many women. There may not be laws telling them they have to cover themselves, and their fathers, brothers, and husbands may be fine with them wearing whatever they want, but the culture at large will bully them into covering themselves. Women who do not cover their heads- even if they're modestly dressed otherwise- are often subjected to sexual harassment because women who do not cover their hair are seen as loose at best and actual whores at worst. For example, in 1960s-1980s Egypt, many (if not most) women did not wear headscarves. Nowadays basically all women cover themselves in a desperate attempt to not get sexually harassed (not so fun fact: 99% of Egyptian women have faced sexual harassment). Not that it works.
  • To be frank, I don't understand the appeal of covering everything but your face and hands (to say nothing of the dress styles that take it even further). I consider myself to be a modest dresser, but I still wear shorts and t-shirts. So when I look at women who have everything but their eyes covered, I just can't understand how they could be happy wearing all that, especially when it's hot outside. Not only does it seem uncomfortable, it seems to create an unbearable sense of isolation. Now, I don't look at every women wearing a hijab and think "omg you poor victim," I just don't understand it.
  • I don't really buy the "Muhammad was totally a feminist, you guys" argument when you consider that the Quran itself basically asserts that women are only worth half as much as men. Why else do women inherit half of what their male relatives do? And why else is the testimony of two women worth the testimony of one man? Or that Muslim women must always be available to sexually satisfy their husbands, but not the other way around? Or that men are allowed to marry up to four women but women can only have one husband? Or how about the fact that men are explicitly given permission to rape female slaves?
  • Ah, the Khadija argument. I think that Khadija's story is very admirable. However, it's very important to remember that Khadija attained her success before Islam even existed. If anything, her life story affirms that things weren't that terrible for women before Islam. And how many women like Khadija were there after Islam? I'm sure there were quite a few, but still, let's not act like she's the poster child for Muslim women.
  • "Muslim women, as well as Muslim men, see every body as a sacred temple, especially the female body." While there are no doubt many Muslims who view the body this way, I think it's disingenuous to present this as the typical Muslim outlook. In actuality, many Muslim men (Wahhabists being chief among them) view the female body not as a sacred temple, but as a source of corruption. This view is especially prominent in underdeveloped and Wahhabist-influenced areas. In fact, women in Saudi Arabia and similarly extreme societies are so segregated from men not because they're viewed as respectable, but because they're contemptible. They think that even the sound of a woman's voice or the sight of her uncovered arm can lead men astray into a life of sexually deviancy. Again, I know that this is not the case for tons of Muslims, but unfortunately this view is becoming more and more common as Wahhabism continues to spread.
  • Glorifying the hijab and Islamic female dress encourages victim-blaming and rape culture. Think I'm throwing out a bunch of buzzwords? Think again, fam. They've set up fucking anti-rape classes for migrants in countries like Norway and Finland because they come from cultures where all "good women" veil themselves and only whores walk around with their hair uncovered and their arms showing. There is also the extremely pervasive idea that women are always responsible for rape; after all, if she was a good, moral woman, she wouldn't have gone out unescorted by her father/brother/husband and she would have covered herself. Men can't be held accountable for not containing their urges.
And this last point is so mind-numbingly stupid that I had to break it off into its own section. It's really, really bad, you guys.

"I finally understood who is really oppressed by a patriarchal society and it is us." Shut the fuck up, you stupid bitch. Shut. The fuck. UP. No, things aren't perfect for women anywhere. We still have shit we have to deal with and a lot of outdated ideas to combat. But the amount of progress Western women have made in just 100 years is absolutely fucking insane. We can vote. We can drive. We can buy, sell, and inherit property. We can wear whatever we want. We can marry (or not marry) whoever we choose- and that includes other women. We can work whatever jobs we want to work. We can receive whatever education we want. We are considered fundamentally equal to men before the law and by society at large. We are in charge of our own lives and our own destinies. We don't need to depend on men to take care of us, we can live with them as equals and support one another.

Women in most Muslim-majority countries only have a couple of those rights, if any at all. I would honestly rather kill myself than live in a patriarchal country where women are considered property. If you think that the United States or the UK or France is more patriarchal than Pakistan or Afganistan or Saudi Arabia then you have fucking brain damage.

Okay, I'm done. I have even more to say but I've been writing this post for like an hour and a half and I'm honestly pretty salty right now.
One thing that annoys me about this argument is that if I have to cover myself for something I have no real control over (being a woman) outside of major medical intervention (and that can only do so much) just so men won't have an excuse to hurt me, am I really being seen as a person?
 
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