Islamophiles / Regressive Left - Liberal non-Muslims who are desperate to protect the Religion of Peace

[Hollywood Hulk Hogan]

https://youtube.com/watch?v=ZVUmpuq7yggYep. Anita made a video on "islamphobia". Prepare yourself to rage.

The Freak Show?

 

[Alec Benson Leary]

Yep. Anita made a video on "islamphobia". Prepare yourself to rage.

I really don't feel inclined to listen to the "manufactured menace" claim from the side that won't stop screeching about the wage gap and manspreading.

 

[Lorento]

I really don't feel inclined to listen to the "manufactured menace" claim from the side that won't stop screeching about the wage gap and manspreading.

Thousands and thousands of people dying every single year because of some death cult sect is not manufactured. The numerous (By no means a majority but still fairly large) numbers of Muslims prepared to justify mass murder is not manufactured.

What is manufactured is this misguided belief that if we roll over and let people walk over us, that eventually the bombings will stop. They will not stop until we kill every single extremist and cut out the cancer in modern Islam, or until the Caliphate's flag flies over all of Europe's capitals and all the rights that millions bled for will be lost.

 

[NIA-DOA 2.0]

When your Islamophilia causes you to back the wrong horse:

 

[Kugelsak Kastengrus 6th]

This all reminds me of Helen Lovejoy from the Simpsons.

"The Muslims, the Muslims! Won't somebody please think of the Muslims!"

When your priority is the group the attacker came from and not the victims themselves, congratulations, you are a shitty human being.

 

[Takayuki Yagami]

https://youtube.com/watch?v=ZVUmpuq7yggYep. Anita made a video on "islamphobia". Prepare yourself to rage.

I would say something about how the Armenian of all people should realize how insane that sounds, but then I remembered that at least some of the perps in that were secularists, and that Sarki will say anything to keep the gravy train going.

 

[BILLY MAYS]

but where's the lol

 

[The Giver]

This is turning out to be something of a honey pot

Anyways, something I've heard a lot is that ISIS et al aren't "real" Muslims. Which is such a textbook example of the no true Scotsman fallacy that I can't help but laugh at people dumb enough to use it unironically.

 

[Male Idiot]

These guy really need to be sent to Afganistan. With no return ticket.

 

[The Giver]

But yeah anyone defending Islamic Law or the rampant restrictions of rights based on gender is a dumbass. These things aren't culturally relative, they are basic human rights. I don't care what religion you profess, it is just objectively, morally wrong. If your holy book says women are inferior to men or shouldn't have the same rights as men, then your holy book is objectively, morally wrong.

 

[Lorento]

But yeah anyone defending Islamic Law or the rampant restrictions of rights based on gender is a dumbass. These things aren't culturally relative, they are basic human rights. I don't care what religion you profess, it is just objectively, morally wrong. If your holy book says women are inferior to men or shouldn't have the same rights as men, then your holy book is objectively, morally wrong.

Well it's a good thing the UN are getting right on that with the Human Rights Commission, headed by the bastion of Human Rights....

Oh.

Oh dear.

 

[The Giver]

Well it's a good thing the UN are getting right on that with the Human Rights Commission, headed by the bastion of Human Rights....

Oh.

Oh dear.

Yeah, the human rights council is a joke. I mean, I do see what they were going for, I really do. There is a nice democratic ideal of having everyone at the table and hashing shit out. This sort of thing could help make sure that legitimate cultural differences wouldn't get thrown in with human rights violations, for instance. This sort of thing does happen; France's beef with the veil arguably is an example. The human right is to be able to dress (within the bounds of decency) more or less how you want. The problem isn't the veil per se, but forcing women to wear it.

But the simple fact is that some countries have deeply held (for religious or cultural reasons), false beliefs about human rights. Saudi Arabia is a great example of this. I'm not sure when it stopped being ok to point out that some societies have wound up with more correct moral beliefs than others. Surely we want to say, for instance, that contemporary American belief is objectively better than Nazi belief with respect to the proper attitude toward religious minorities? In the same way, I think it is pretty obvious that contemporary Western beliefs are objectively better than legalistic Sharia with respect to women's rights. It really isn't rocket science.

 

[Diana Moon Glampers]

To me, it's kind of amazing how many parallels there are between the way people on the left act about Islam and the way they act about prostitution:

In both cases there are people who have survived horrifying shit who are completely disregarded by leftists who ostensibly advocate listening to survivors.

Muslim women in moderate families that promote education, who can articulate postmodern arguments for covering, are trotted out to demonstrate that Islam is really just fine for women and that it's truly a rare aberration for women to be treated unfairly, don't blame all Muslims. High-class escorts who have gone to college and can talk about how feminist prostitution is are the same thing.

People who promote "sex worker positivity" and talk about it as a free choice ignore the many surveys showing that 90%+ of prostitutes want to leave the industry and that almost all have been victims of rape. People who say conservative Muslim countries are just fine to women ignore the huge percentages of women in Saudi Arabia who oppose guardianship and the huge percentages of women in these countries that are beaten and raped.

In both cases, men's right to do heinous shit to women is viewed as being inherently more culturally or socially valuable than women's right to bodily autonomy or to tell their own stories.

In both cases, survivors with wrongthink opinions end up with their ideas categorized as "hate speech," and are accused of killing muslims/sex workers -- while the people who actually kill the majority of muslims/sex workers (extremist muslims/johns respectively) are made into the tragic victims of social forces they could not control.

There's a total reversal of who is being violent and who has been a victim of violence. The question is, to what end?

 

[Alec Benson Leary]

There's a total reversal of who is being violent and who has been a victim of violence. The question is, to what end?

This is a really good question to ask because you're right, this bizarre reversal of right and wrong keeps cropping up with these people like clockwork.

 

[Fleshy Sanik]

At the risk of sounding really edgy, has any religion at all contributed anything other than mindless killing within the past century if not longer? It breaks my trve-leftist heart to see people defending organized religion, and the atrocities committed on their behalf.


To be fair, I wouldn't call the militant homophobia displayed by Islam to be left-wing.

Honestly though, yes. Despite the middle ages frequently used as a example of how bad Christianity is it was actually mostly a result of the fall of rome. It was thanks to christian and Islamic scholars that the resulting clusterfuck did not end up at an even more postapocalyptic scale of fucked

 

[The_Truth]

Right! Like when it happened on Facebook I saw more bitching about the westboro Baptist Church protesting than about the man doing it for isis. Like yes the WBC is exceptional and I do not agree with what they do but they didn't kill anyone and as much as I don't like their speech they do have 1st amendment rights

The "But what about Westboro!!!" is such a low information clown argument.

WBC has less than 40 members all of which are related by blood or marriage to the founder who was a noted civil rights lawyer that won two NAACP awards back in the 80s.

The whole thing is a scam, they show up , make asses of themselves, and hope someone does something so they can sue. It's a hustle.

 

[Jan_Hus]

Well it's a good thing the UN are getting right on that with the Human Rights Commission, headed by the bastion of Human Rights....

Oh.

Oh dear.

Ah yes... how can we forget the bastion of Wahabbism, where they have to be told to stop bulldozing sites from the Prophet Mohammad's life... the custodian of two of the holiest cities in Islam bulldozes actual fucking UNESCO sites in the name of stamping out idolatry.

Someone remind me why we still enable these barbarians again? Seriously, we condemn Daesh for doing this shit, yet the Saudis get a free pass... it's fucking wrong on so many levels.

 

[QB 290]

A weird thing I've noticed (and maybe @Ntwadumela can confirm) is that nobody hates Muslims more them other Muslims. They have a serious clan mentality, they don't trust others that aren't in their extended family, they are nabourly with the Muslims that are there but don't want any more Muslims migrating into Europe.
Just things I've noticed with working with them and living around them.

 

[Alec Benson Leary]

Honestly though, yes. Despite the middle ages frequently used as a example of how bad Christianity is it was actually mostly a result of the fall of rome. It was thanks to christian and Islamic scholars that the resulting clusterfuck did not end up at an even more postapocalyptic scale of fucked

The church and the caliphate were the two big bastions of science and economy at the time. Christians didn't propagate the dark ages, they minimized it.

The "But what about Westboro!!!" is such a low information clown argument.

WBC has less than 40 members all of which are related by blood or marriage to the founder who was a noted civil rights lawyer that won two NAACP awards back in the 80s.

The whole thing is a scam, they show up , make asses of themselves, and hope someone does something so they can sue. It's a hustle.

Westboro also doesn't mass murder children or enslave women, so there's that too.

 

[Cosmos]

We're getting a bit off-topic, so I'm gonna repost something I posted in the social justice warriors thread last year:

Massive tl;dr warning, I go all out on this one. But I think the read is worth it.

Muslims are the True Feminists
(archive)

As American women, many of us have an idea of what feminists are; freelancing women with all the sexual freedom in the world. But this is exactly the problem with American feminism; it is all about sex and the liberation of our bodies. Certainly, things like abortion and contraception is a part of that freedom, but in today’s society the fight has taken on a much different tone.

Hip Feminist campaigns like Free the Nipple only encourage a gullible behavior of disrespect for our own bodies, leading to everyone else around us disrespecting our bodies as well. If we want to be respected as women and taken seriously in all our endeavors we should look to a new source; Muslim women. Muslim women, as well as Muslim men, see every body as a sacred temple, especially the female body. Opposed to exposing themselves, it is through modesty. When we think of modern feminists we should stray away from the new American trends and start looking to what we have always thought as a contradiction; Muslim feminists.

Contrary to American popular belief, Islam has a culture and history of women empowerment. In the Qur’an, which is believed to be God’s word told to Prophet Muhammad, women and men are described as equals in everyday actions and responsibilities. When it comes to family, charity, children, sex, and much more, a man and a woman have the same duties and that is to continue on the straight path.

Early Islamic women kept this idea alive. The first Muslim woman was Khadija, Mohammed’s first wife. Without her influence, Islam might not have emerged as successfully as it did. Khadija was a business woman and a land owner in the lands of Arabia. When Mohammed was given revelations, it was Khadija that ensured him that he was not going insane, but that he was a chosen one. It was Khadija that pushed Mohammed to listen to God and the angels that were trying to communicate with him and to not run in fear. It was Khadija that gave Muhammad the support and confidence in his development as becoming God’s last prophet. Khadija, a woman, was the strength that allowed Islam to fully bloom. Just this one example gives us a view on how true Muslim women are; outspoken, driven, certain and courageous, the epitome of a feminist.

So it’s no surprise to see Muslim woman today modeling themselves after these prominent female figures. Muslim girls look towards these instances of strength for guidance in this scary, patriarchal society. These modern women are not afraid to go against the grain in the name of their belief like wearing the hijab to covey their religious devotion. Hijab is the headscarf that is worn by Muslim woman and no; it is not supposed to be forced on them by their fathers and husbands. Wearing or not wearing the Hijab reflects a Muslim woman’s own a personal choice.

For me, this idea especially showcases feminism in America. With all of the pressures in our American society to have a certain physical allure; to have long, luscious hair, a skinny yet curvy body, flawless facial beauty, woman go through hell. With this, we succumb to the pressures that we generally think we are free of; we oppress our natural womanhood with constant worry about how we look to others around us. We do not have the courage to stand up to this societal critique and say ‘my body is not to be ogled at’.

For many Muslim women however, they strive to achieve just that. In this way, they liberate themselves from these everyday pressures. They actually have the courage to say hey, I am not an object of pleasure, I am a woman that commands only respect for who I am and not how I look. They have the power to self-liberate as well as the courage to diverge from the American norms. And they do not get attention from showing off their figure, but they get attention by how they present themselves. Muslim woman get respect and are looked at beyond aesthetics; they are actually taken seriously in their communities.

Isn’t this what feminism should be? Don’t women deserve consistent respect and to actually be listened to without drools or criticisms over our bodies and looks? I believe the answer is yes. In the Muslim-American community, and even in parts of the greater Muslim world, modest woman, whether they wear hijab or not, are respected and called upon, despite what our mainstream media feeds to us.

A few weeks ago I went to a lecture about feminism- in Islam. That is what got all these thoughts stirring in my head once again. The lecturer was a Muslim woman in hijab; she spoke so passionately that every person in the room, guy and girl, had no choice but to immerse themselves in her words. After a quick hour and a half, I could not help but think about all our Free the Nipple group representing a trendy feminism and how some trends need to die. I realized we have been conditioned to think that American women are the free and that Muslim women are the suppressed, but this is twisted to me. I finally understood who is really oppressed by a patriarchal society and it is us. Woman who wear hijab have freed themselves from a man’s and a society’s judgmental gaze; the Free the Nipplers have not. They have fallen deep into the man’s world, believing that this trend will garner respect.

So I urge my Free the Nipple gal pals to take a look at your Muslim sisters and collaborate with them to create a feminism that treats the female body as a temple and not as a toy. Let us see feminism in a different light—through modesty and the courage to savor our sugar. Let us call on the Muslim feminists of the world.

Um, lol, okay. I'm not even going to bother addressing these points in order. Strap in everyone, you're in for a bumpy, rambling ride.

• Alright, first and foremost, we need to address the core argument here, which the author has proposed thusly: "Woman who wear hijab have freed themselves from a man’s and a society’s judgmental gaze."I see this argument presented all the time, both from Muslims and Muslim-friendly feminists. They argue that Muslim women are more empowered because they're seen for their "minds" and not their bodies. Sorry, no, that's bullshit. I think it's fucking bullshit that, in order for women to "free" themselves from judgement, they have to completely cover their bodies. I'm not going to drape myself in yards of fabric to get men to respect me, and I can't believe a "feminist" is actually saying that it's a good idea. Maybe instead we should be telling men to respect women as fellow human beings regardless of what they're wearing (I'm not trying to throw shade at any men here, btw; in Western societies this is mostly the case already).
• Wearing a hijab/niqab/burqa/etc is not a choice for far too many women. There may not be laws telling them they have to cover themselves, and their fathers, brothers, and husbands may be fine with them wearing whatever they want, but the culture at large will bully them into covering themselves. Women who do not cover their heads- even if they're modestly dressed otherwise- are often subjected to sexual harassment because women who do not cover their hair are seen as loose at best and actual whores at worst. For example, in 1960s-1980s Egypt, many (if not most) women did not wear headscarves. Nowadays basically all women cover themselves in a desperate attempt to not get sexually harassed (not so fun fact: 99% of Egyptian women have faced sexual harassment). Not that it works.
• To be frank, I don't understand the appeal of covering everything but your face and hands (to say nothing of the dress styles that take it even further). I consider myself to be a modest dresser, but I still wear shorts and t-shirts. So when I look at women who have everything but their eyes covered, I just can't understand how they could be happy wearing all that, especially when it's hot outside. Not only does it seem uncomfortable, it seems to create an unbearable sense of isolation. Now, I don't look at every women wearing a hijab and think "omg you poor victim," I just don't understand it.
• I don't really buy the "Muhammad was totally a feminist, you guys" argument when you consider that the Quran itself basically asserts that women are only worth half as much as men. Why else do women inherit half of what their male relatives do? And why else is the testimony of two women worth the testimony of one man? Or that Muslim women must always be available to sexually satisfy their husbands, but not the other way around? Or that men are allowed to marry up to four women but women can only have one husband? Or how about the fact that men are explicitly given permission to rape female slaves?
• Ah, the Khadija argument. I think that Khadija's story is very admirable. However, it's very important to remember that Khadija attained her success before Islam even existed. If anything, her life story affirms that things weren't that terrible for women before Islam. And how many women like Khadija were there after Islam? I'm sure there were quite a few, but still, let's not act like she's the poster child for Muslim women.
• "Muslim women, as well as Muslim men, see every body as a sacred temple, especially the female body." While there are no doubt many Muslims who view the body this way, I think it's disingenuous to present this as the typical Muslim outlook. In actuality, many Muslim men (Wahhabists being chief among them) view the female body not as a sacred temple, but as a source of corruption. This view is especially prominent in underdeveloped and Wahhabist-influenced areas. In fact, women in Saudi Arabia and similarly extreme societies are so segregated from men not because they're viewed as respectable, but because they're contemptible. They think that even the sound of a woman's voice or the sight of her uncovered arm can lead men astray into a life of sexually deviancy. Again, I know that this is not the case for tons of Muslims, but unfortunately this view is becoming more and more common as Wahhabism continues to spread.
• Glorifying the hijab and Islamic female dress encourages victim-blaming and rape culture. Think I'm throwing out a bunch of buzzwords? Think again, fam. They've set up fucking anti-rape classes for migrants in countries like Norway and Finland because they come from cultures where all "good women" veil themselves and only whores walk around with their hair uncovered and their arms showing. There is also the extremely pervasive idea that women are always responsible for rape; after all, if she was a good, moral woman, she wouldn't have gone out unescorted by her father/brother/husband and she would have covered herself. Men can't be held accountable for not containing their urges.

And this last point is so mind-numbingly stupid that I had to break it off into its own section. It's really, really bad, you guys.

"I finally understood who is really oppressed by a patriarchal society and it is us." Shut the fuck up, you stupid bitch. Shut. The fuck. UP. No, things aren't perfect for women anywhere. We still have shit we have to deal with and a lot of outdated ideas to combat. But the amount of progress Western women have made in just 100 years is absolutely fucking insane. We can vote. We can drive. We can buy, sell, and inherit property. We can wear whatever we want. We can marry (or not marry) whoever we choose- and that includes other women. We can work whatever jobs we want to work. We can receive whatever education we want. We are considered fundamentally equal to men before the law and by society at large. We are in charge of our own lives and our own destinies. We don't need to depend on men to take care of us, we can live with them as equals and support one another.

Women in most Muslim-majority countries only have a couple of those rights, if any at all. I would honestly rather kill myself than live in a patriarchal country where women are considered property. If you think that the United States or the UK or France is more patriarchal than Pakistan or Afganistan or Saudi Arabia then you have fucking brain damage.

Okay, I'm done. I have even more to say but I've been writing this post for like an hour and a half and I'm honestly pretty salty right now.