Wuhan Coronavirus: Lockdowns, Quarantines, Cancellations

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True, but in this case, the whole scientific community is saying that it is necessary. In normal circumstances, that wouldn't be happening. You can't buy off every scientist in the world

That's a very sweeping statement to make for something that's factually untrue.
There are plenty of "scientists" who are against lockdowns - whether in full or in part. Case in point Sweden or South Korea.
There's "scientists" that are against lockdowns in part - they believe that schools should be in session, because the best way to achieve herd immunity is to have kids get it. They're the least at risk.
Not to mention the amount of "scientists" who won't say a single word because they're scared for their careers.
Look at how doctor's using HCQ have been treated. If you dare say it has positive results, you're persona non grata.

What you just said was akin to something Rhys McKinnon likes to say : THE SCIENCE IS CLEAR!
The science is not clear. To assert that the science is clear is obfuscation at best, politically motivated deception at worst.

Lock downs are the likely cause of more deaths in Italy, than not. Why? Because the infected were forced to be in their homes with the elderly.

7 People in the age bracket of 20-29 died in Italy. In Australia, that same age bracket is who is most infected with this and least likely to die.
You force those people to stay home with older family members, you get death. You let them go about their business, you also get death, but you don't kill your economy to do so.

As for Sweden's "high rate" atm. That's their plan. The death rate won't change in countries with lockdowns, it will just spread it over a period of time.
The whole "flatten the curve" was a fallacy in most places, pushed to sedate the country into accepting the harsh lockdowns. A "light at the end of the tunnel" approach, which was based on bullshit. As soon as the curve was flattened, the curve was then forgotten about. The curve talk all but disappeared. It then becomes "Curve? You're staying in lockdown forever, we're not taking any chances, get over it".

People who have taken the no lockdown approach like Sweden and South Korea will fair much better.
Firstly, they haven't lied to their people and manipulated them. Secondly, they haven't driven the country into poverty, making medical access difficult to obtain over a longer period of time. There's 7.8 billion people in the world.
There's 114,248 deaths to date from COVID-19. There's at the VERY least an 80% recovery rate. As we know, many more will have been infected and not shown symptoms.

When you take draconian measures like eternal lock downs, you have to be sure that what you're doing is justified and the benefits outweigh the negatives. I don't know how anyone can look at those numbers and say "THE SCIENCE IS CLEAR".
 
That's a very sweeping statement to make for something that's factually untrue.
There are plenty of "scientists" who are against lockdowns - whether in full or in part. Case in point Sweden or South Korea.
There's "scientists" that are against lockdowns in part - they believe that schools should be in session, because the best way to achieve herd immunity is to have kids get it. They're the least at risk.
Not to mention the amount of "scientists" who won't say a single word because they're scared for their careers.
Look at how doctor's using HCQ have been treated. If you dare say it has positive results, you're persona non grata.

What you just said was akin to something Rhys McKinnon likes to say : THE SCIENCE IS CLEAR!
The science is not clear. To assert that the science is clear is obfuscation at best, politically motivated deception at worst.

Lock downs are the likely cause of more deaths in Italy, than not. Why? Because the infected were forced to be in their homes with the elderly.

7 People in the age bracket of 20-29 died in Italy. In Australia, that same age bracket is who is most infected with this and least likely to die.
You force those people to stay home with older family members, you get death. You let them go about their business, you also get death, but you don't kill your economy to do so.

As for Sweden's "high rate" atm. That's their plan. The death rate won't change in countries with lockdowns, it will just spread it over a period of time.
The whole "flatten the curve" was a fallacy in most places, pushed to sedate the country into accepting the harsh lockdowns. A "light at the end of the tunnel" approach, which was based on bullshit. As soon as the curve was flattened, the curve was then forgotten about. The curve talk all but disappeared. It then becomes "Curve? You're staying in lockdown forever, we're not taking any chances, get over it".

People who have taken the no lockdown approach like Sweden and South Korea will fair much better.
Firstly, they haven't lied to their people and manipulated them. Secondly, they haven't driven the country into poverty, making medical access difficult to obtain over a longer period of time. There's 7.8 billion people in the world.
There's 114,248 deaths to date from COVID-19. There's at the VERY least an 80% recovery rate. As we know, many more will have been infected and not shown symptoms.

When you take draconian measures like eternal lock downs, you have to be sure that what you're doing is justified and the benefits outweigh the negatives. I don't know how anyone can look at those numbers and say "THE SCIENCE IS CLEAR".

Did you read the article I linked? The scientists in Sweden are saying they should lock down but their government is being retarded and ignoring them. No, not every scientist is for the lockdown, but the vast majority are. There are rogue scientists in everything. There are anti-vax scientists. There are young-earth creationist scientists. There are probably flat earth scientists. Hell, there's a scientist that studies cold fusion.

Sweden's doctors are saying they need to flatten the curve because their hospitals are going to be overrun, leading to even more deaths. These are the people on the frontlines and they have actual medical degrees

You don't need to buy off every scientist, you just call the ones you can't "Deniers"

You'd still have to buy off the vast majority of scientists then. That is just not feasible
 
Yeah, that is pretty fucked up. That is more due to local government ordinances than the lockdown, though.

This is probably my biggest issue with the quarantines/lockdowns. We don't have a coherent response based on science, where some states or areas have a measured response based on some sort of data. Instead we have local people down to the Deputy Cletus level interpreting measures of safety "for the good of the public" based on feels, or personal power or psychological inadequacies. You have politicians using this as a way to get their agendas passed by force, whether or not it has meaningful effect on spread. And they have shut down methods of appeal or discussion. You can't go to the town board meeting and bitch. You can't sue them in a court that is functional. You don't know if they will cancel elections. There is no end in sight.

Why, for example, are they sending police to track churchgoers in KY but not TN? Why is Vermont shutting down big box stores from sellling non essentials but not NY? Why is the NY governor treating anything north of Poughkeepsie like it's part of the plan to save NYC? Why is the governor of MI not allowing people to buy car seats and seeds in local stores but not the governor of CA? What info does Governor X have, what data do they have, that Governor Y does not? Do they have access to any better info than you or me? For that matter, what info is Cletus basing pulling people over on? Or ripping them off a train for not wearing a mask?

You also have the Karens who are cheering this on, because MY CHILDREN and I AM A TIGER MOM so if they can get by on their husband's savings for a couple years or would gladly take money from the govt to stay home and not work, they will. If this goes on another month or 3 and it would legit save thousands of lives, fine. But what if it would only save hundreds? Or dozens? Do we shut down for 3 months to save 1 life? Do we shut down for 6 months, or 18 or 2 years?

What is the plan of sustainability to keep us going as a society if the vast majority are staying home and collecting Trumpbux and ordering food? What does our economy look like when it's a closed cycle of printing infinite Trumpbux to pay the few workers and give to the masses to buy essentials, over and over and over? Do we freeze prices on everything, freeze wages and jobs, rents and mortgages and hope when it's over everyone can go back to 3/9/2020 like nothing happened? What happens when we can't order household goods, electronics, clothing and other "nonessentials" from Amazon because trucking and delivery routes are shut down due to lack of rest stops and drivers? What happens when we can't get food in the grocery stores delivered because nobody will volunteer to work due to fear of sickness?

If you want a perpetual shutdown, you gotta explain this stuff to me cause I don't get it. Or we have to agree that sooner than later, this will end and not say "I don't know what June will look like' and kick the can down further.
 
This is probably my biggest issue with the quarantines/lockdowns. We don't have a coherent response based on science, where some states or areas have a measured response based on some sort of data. Instead we have local people down to the Deputy Cletus level interpreting measures of safety "for the good of the public" based on feels, or personal power or psychological inadequacies. You have politicians using this as a way to get their agendas passed by force, whether or not it has meaningful effect on spread. And they have shut down methods of appeal or discussion. You can't go to the town board meeting and bitch. You can't sue them in a court that is functional. You don't know if they will cancel elections. There is no end in sight.

Why, for example, are they sending police to track churchgoers in KY but not TN? Why is Vermont shutting down big box stores from sellling non essentials but not NY? Why is the NY governor treating anything north of Poughkeepsie like it's part of the plan to save NYC? Why is the governor of MI not allowing people to buy car seats and seeds in local stores but not the governor of CA? What info does Governor X have, what data do they have, that Governor Y does not? Do they have access to any better info than you or me? For that matter, what info is Cletus basing pulling people over on? Or ripping them off a train for not wearing a mask?

You also have the Karens who are cheering this on, because MY CHILDREN and I AM A TIGER MOM so if they can get by on their husband's savings for a couple years or would gladly take money from the govt to stay home and not work, they will. If this goes on another month or 3 and it would legit save thousands of lives, fine. But what if it would only save hundreds? Or dozens? Do we shut down for 3 months to save 1 life? Do we shut down for 6 months, or 18 or 2 years?

What is the plan of sustainability to keep us going as a society if the vast majority are staying home and collecting Trumpbux and ordering food? What does our economy look like when it's a closed cycle of printing infinite Trumpbux to pay the few workers and give to the masses to buy essentials, over and over and over? Do we freeze prices on everything, freeze wages and jobs, rents and mortgages and hope when it's over everyone can go back to 3/9/2020 like nothing happened? What happens when we can't order household goods, electronics, clothing and other "nonessentials" from Amazon because trucking and delivery routes are shut down due to lack of rest stops and drivers? What happens when we can't get food in the grocery stores delivered because nobody will volunteer to work due to fear of sickness?

If you want a perpetual shutdown, you gotta explain this stuff to me cause I don't get it. Or we have to agree that sooner than later, this will end and not say "I don't know what June will look like' and kick the can down further.

I 100% agree. Everyone should be doing it consistently across the nation (hell, the world) or it just delays it even longer. It's like having a non-peeing section of a public pool; the piss is gonna spread
 
Did you read the article I linked? The scientists in Sweden are saying they should lock down but their government is being exceptional and ignoring them. No, not every scientist is for the lockdown, but the vast majority are. There are rogue scientists in everything. There are anti-vax scientists. There are young-earth creationist scientists. There are probably flat earth scientists. Hell, there's a scientist that studies cold fusion.

Sweden's doctors are saying they need to flatten the curve because their hospitals are going to be overrun, leading to even more deaths. These are the people on the frontlines and they have actual medical degrees



You'd still have to buy off the vast majority of scientists then. That is just not feasible

Even if we were to be charitable and assume that you are 100% correct in your assumption that all knowledgeable and reputable scientists are fully on board with this, that still doesn't mean that our governments should be following the scientists advice 100%.

The scientists goal is to put forth a plan that will stop the virus as best they can, that is all they care about, and that is fine because that is their job but in general that really is all they care about. They don't care about the effects that their recommendations will have on peoples civil rights, they don't care about the effects their recommendations will have on the economy. All they want to do is put forth recommendations on what can be done to stop the virus. Even Dr Fauci, when asked about how his recommendations will affect the economy, said something along the lines of "I don't concern myself with that, the economy isn't my job."

Some people are fine with trashing our civil rights in order to stop the virus, many of us are not. Some people are fine with trashing the economy in order to stop the virus, many of us believe that trashing the economy could down the road lead to more deaths and suffering than the virus itself. Concerns about our freedoms and the economy are valid and people just dismissing those concerns with trite bullshit comments like "Oh you just care more about your 401K than grandma" doesn't help anything, but that seems to be the current level of discourse.

I don't want to ignore what the scientists say and I don't want our representatives in government to ignore the scientists either. But I do want our government to look at all sides of the issue, not just the healthcare side but the civil rights side and the economic side also. And it seems like by and large they aren't doing that. They are just taking the scientists advice to lock everything down and ignoring any complaints about the civil rights violations and seemingly not giving a fuck about the economic affects.
 
scientists are basically boring nerds. they follow the herd.Fact. Look at Bill gates. dude isn't even a scientist, just a boring nerd.
Scientists are people just like everyone else. Some will nod their heads to what others say for any number of reasons. This is why every scientific community has peer review. If you're expecting any group to be infallible then you're being retarded.

That said Bill Gates ought to keep his trap shut and donate 99% of his wealth to relief if he wants so badly to contribute, for the reason lifted above as well as many others. He is if anything a software engineer and has fuck all to do with medicine. Having scientists pour honeyed words in your ear is not the same thing as doing the rigor yourself.
 
Scientists are people just like everyone else. Some will nod their heads to what others say for any number of reasons. This is why every scientific community has peer review. If you're expecting any group to be infallible then you're being exceptional.

That said Bill Gates ought to keep his trap shut and donate 99% of his wealth to relief if he wants so badly to contribute, for the reason lifted above as well as many others. He is if anything a software engineer and has fuck all to do with medicine. Having scientists pour honeyed words in your ear is not the same thing as doing the rigor yourself.

He did donate like $7 billion for funding different vaccines (in the hope one works).
 
Went out to get apples and milk today. I've been more or less playing along because I'm a giant pussy so it was the first time I left my property for several days. It's up around 11 degrees (51.8 in freedom units) and the snow's finally melting and no one is listening to the lockdown rules. We're only having 1 - 2 new cases a day lately, government on the radio begging people to stay inside unless it's necessary and everyone is just going "lol no," apparently.
 
Went out to get apples and tard cum today. I've been more or less playing along because I'm a giant pussy so it was the first time I left my property for several days. It's up around 11 degrees (51.8 in freedom units) and the snow's finally melting and no one is listening to the lockdown rules. We're only having 1 - 2 new cases a day lately, government on the radio begging people to stay inside unless it's necessary and everyone is just going "lol no," apparently.
Same here. I've been doing my level best to follow the guidelines and not totally blow my life the fuck out.

Feels like I'm the only one, which kind of makes me want to stay inside a bit more.
 
Bit late for how fast this thread moves, but the UK seems like a jolly good place to be right now.

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(oink) (oink)
 
Went out to get apples and tard cum today. I've been more or less playing along because I'm a giant pussy so it was the first time I left my property for several days. It's up around 11 degrees (51.8 in freedom units) and the snow's finally melting and no one is listening to the lockdown rules. We're only having 1 - 2 new cases a day lately, government on the radio begging people to stay inside unless it's necessary and everyone is just going "lol no," apparently.

In my region (by region, I mean basically the area of the three counties I pass through regularly) nobody observes the rules, particularly since there's exemptions for exercise that basically allow anybody to claim exercise as a justification for anything they do outside. There are more people outside than there ever was before. If I go out to main street and watch it I'll see more people at any given time than you'll see on live feeds of New York City and Los Angeles.
 
DeWine prohibits liquor sales to non-residents


COLUMBUS, Ohio — Gov. Mike DeWine announced Monday that stores in Belmont and Jefferson counties can no longer sell liquor to customers from outside the state.

DeWine said visitors from neighboring states present a health hazard due totheCOVID-19 pandemic. Therefore, he ordered that customers purchasing alcohol in some of Ohio’s border counties must have a valid Ohio identification. Residents of neighboring counties in other states who have a letter demonstrating they are an essential worker in Ohio will be exempted.
 
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