- Joined
- Aug 17, 2022
To be honest, I doubt Toby thought that far ahead. Remember, the ending to Undertale was all "humans and monsters live in peace and harmony forever" or some shit; any attempt at getting a realistic look at the implications of soul-stealing monsters or conflict between the two races was likely thrown out in favor of meme shit.
Not so sure things would really go all that well for whoever got themselves a second soul, though; remember that control of the body is split between souls, which is why Asriel got killed. Also kinda makes you wonder what would've happened with Asgore if he'd gotten all seven souls... or whether or not the six kids dying was actually necessary for that matter. To be fair, monsters were flying with VERY limited info; we also don't know if all humans can actually do stuff like what Frisk and Kris are capable of, or if it's some kind of weird abilities they have.
In honesty, I think the weird crap Kris can do might have something to do with Dess; I still kinda stand with my current theory that Kris has Dess's soul absorbed somehow, which would explain some of the stuff going on.
To sperg on this a bit:
As weird as it might sound, there were some older theories suggesting that Kris had wanted to become a monster himself; mostly because of the fake horns he used to wear all the time when he was younger, coupled with him being the only kid in town likely causing his loner tendencies. The more recent chapters indicate that he's also got a history of both mental illness and some very violent tendencies, which edge into the self-destructive; given that he seems to be a copy of Chara, who hated humanity to the point of killing themselves via buttercup poisoning...
Basically, the current theory is that Kris stole Dess's soul in an effort to become a monster like everyone else; his plan fails, and it's implied that Asgore ended up taking the heat from the fallout in some way, which cost him his job. There's also some theories suggesting that Dess's remains are located inside the old bunker; it's a likely location for a body dump, isolated and locked up tight as it is. Granted, the theory has some holes - chiefly being "how would Kris get away with murder" - so I think it's better we wait for future releases before we double down on anything.
As weird as it might sound, there were some older theories suggesting that Kris had wanted to become a monster himself; mostly because of the fake horns he used to wear all the time when he was younger, coupled with him being the only kid in town likely causing his loner tendencies. The more recent chapters indicate that he's also got a history of both mental illness and some very violent tendencies, which edge into the self-destructive; given that he seems to be a copy of Chara, who hated humanity to the point of killing themselves via buttercup poisoning...
Basically, the current theory is that Kris stole Dess's soul in an effort to become a monster like everyone else; his plan fails, and it's implied that Asgore ended up taking the heat from the fallout in some way, which cost him his job. There's also some theories suggesting that Dess's remains are located inside the old bunker; it's a likely location for a body dump, isolated and locked up tight as it is. Granted, the theory has some holes - chiefly being "how would Kris get away with murder" - so I think it's better we wait for future releases before we double down on anything.
Essentially, yes; Chara killed themselves to give Asriel their soul to cross the barrier and collect 6 more.
Toby himself indicated in his Undertale 10th Anniversary stream that the war between humans and monsters was a LOT closer than what the in-game murals indicated; basically, the lore dumps in Undertale are all written by monsters trying to portray themselves as the "innocent victims of oppression from evil humans", whereas in reality... monster weren't exactly innocent, and wracked up a pretty big body count of their own. It's entirely possible that a number of monsters did end up getting some souls, but you also remember that A: humans had access to magic then, B: control between the body is split, and C: there were plenty of monsters that fought alongside humanity, including Gerson, who was a spouse to one of the 7 mages.
Remember that the murals in-game openly contradict themselves; they state that a monster had never been able to absorb a human soul, and yet they both have information that it's possible and even a picture (granted, an artist's interpretation) of a monster with one. If it really never happened, then how would they have that info?
The in-game Library and some other lore bits point out that, in order to cross the barrier, you need someone to have both a human and monster soul together; Alphys confirms that Frisk would need to kill Asgore to escape and take/absorb his soul, and it also points out that none of the monsters can leave without a human soul, either.
Granted, it's never exactly clear on how Frisk escaped in any of the "neutral" endings; Flowey destroys Asgore's soul no matter what, and the kid never tries to take Toriel's soul, so... who knows? Feels like Toby was writing out of his ass at that part more than anything.
