Undertale / Deltarune / Toby Fox Discussion

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What's everyone's thoughts on the fact that any of the humans that we know of in this universe are all refered to as "them", even as a singular person? Is it just Toby doing the usual pandering or is there something more going on?
I think Toby just has some retardation that makes him want to avoid confirming character's genders as much as he can. Like I can't help but imagine that if we actually saw the human Gerson smashed she'd probably just obviously be a woman who's referred to as she, but because we don't see them or get any real detail about them Toby feels the need to be as vague as possible by not even confirming their gender.
 
My Deltarune theory is this.
The shadow crystals are crack crystals and by giving them to Seam we are feeding his addiction. This also explains why you see weird shit when you use them and why everyone who possess them seems to go insane, they're just on crack.
Thank you for reading. :semperfidelis:
 
I think Toby just has some retardation that makes him want to avoid confirming character's genders as much as he can. Like I can't help but imagine that if we actually saw the human Gerson smashed she'd probably just obviously be a woman who's referred to as she, but because we don't see them or get any real detail about them Toby feels the need to be as vague as possible by not even confirming their gender.
Don't forget Toby is "friends" with they/them transfreak people who are scared of seeing themselves in the mirror, hence why he resists classifying people as men or women, lest one of those feels attacked and starts REEEing at Toby-man.
 
I think Toby just has some retardation that makes him want to avoid confirming character's genders as much as he can. Like I can't help but imagine that if we actually saw the human Gerson smashed she'd probably just obviously be a woman who's referred to as she, but because we don't see them or get any real detail about them Toby feels the need to be as vague as possible by not even confirming their gender.
It's incredible how he still tries to maintain this whole sexual ambiguity when even he can't do that (see the recent Napstablook incident). But then again, remembering who he surronds himself with reminds me that he is not that smart.
 
What's everyone's thoughts on the fact that any of the humans that we know of in this universe are all refered to as "them", even as a singular person? Is it just Toby doing the usual pandering or is there something more going on?
Either humans, who are established to be magic users (in Undertale), are a fantasy species which is genderless - which would be in-line with other fantasy species in this fantasy setting - or every single human we’ve seen and heard about across both games just happened to be nonbinary by pure coincidence. You tell me which is more likely.
 
What's everyone's thoughts on the fact that any of the humans that we know of in this universe are all refered to as "them", even as a singular person? Is it just Toby doing the usual pandering or is there something more going on?
In my mind it's because monsters may stuggle to differentiate between different humans, think, why do they all call frisk by the same name as the dreemur's adopted kid? Maybe he looks the same to them. And if that's the case, they most likely struggle to notice gender differences in humans so may just refer to all humans as "they" unless told differently. Kinda like when you are a kid and you think all asians and black people look the same lol. Maybe Kris just goes along with it because everyone is always calling him them and he doesn't care to correct them.

That's how I choose to make sense of it. Obviously, the real reason the human main characters are all referred to as "they" is because toby wants the player to project onto the them and make their own mind about who they are. Or, because he wants the character's gender to remain a secret for lore reasons (most-likely the case with seam)

Edit: Actually I'm not sure if the monsters call Frisk by the same name as Chara or if they all call Frisk "the human" so maybe I'm wrong on that point.
 
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One thing that I really fucking hate about UNDERTALE* is the constant slang that permiates everything. It takes the air out of any situation.
I was rewatching the iconic JUDGEMENT scenes with Sans and he's mostly just going "haha, woops! you goofed pretty bad, no? maybe don't do that next time ...okaaaay?"
Maybe that's just Sans's character; but the TRUE LAB is riddled with it too - all over the descriptive text.

*DELTARUNE seems to have gotten the hint
 
Obviously, the real reason the human main characters are all referred to as "they" is because toby wants the player to project onto the them and make their own mind about who they are. Or, because he wants the character's gender to remain a secret for lore reasons (most-likely the case with seam)
I'm guessing it's the same reasoning behind why he gave Frisk and Kris yellow skin; ambiguity for the sake of the vidya game.

Unless Kris is supposed to canonically be jaundiced and chinese, I think it's fair to assume that he isn't actually bright yellow. It's not like all humans look like that either because Chara was clearly white, so it's gotta be a main character thing.

Kinda like old LEGO back when the characters were yellow so they could theoretically be any race in your imagination (until the star wars line came out and they introduced brown because the playtester kids didn't recognize the character Lando when he was yellow)
 
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I'm guessing it's the same reasoning behind why he gave Frisk and Kris yellow skin; ambiguity for the sake of the vidya game.
Yes, I think Frisk is probably one of the most racially ambiguous characters of all time, with his yellow LEGO/Emoji coloured skin, his squinty eyes, and his hair is designed in a way that makes it hard to tell if it's curly or straight. I believe Kris is designed to have some ambiguity to him as well, although he's not a complete 'blank slate' like Frisk.
Unless Kris is supposed to canonically be jaundiced and chinese, I think it's fair to assume that he isn't actually bright yellow. It's not like all humans look like that either because Chara was clearly white.
Toby is obsessed with Japan and wants to be Japanese, so if Kris is yellow because he's Asian, then he's probably Japanese.
 
You can learn a lot about a person from seeing how he lives, for example, if a man's house looks like a crack den, chances are he is a crackhead. What insights could I glean about Deltarune characters from how they arrange their personal living space? Cue the armchair psychologising!

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Kris shares his sleeping quarters with Asriel, his room is furnished symmetrically, one side is Asriel's, and the other is his. Asriel's side of the room is richly decorated, his shelves are full of trophies and awards, starkly contrasting Kris' complete lack of any such things. Psychologically, I believe this hints at an inferiority complex towards Asriel. Every time Kris enters this room, he would see Asriel's trophy shelf in comparison to his own, it would serve as a daily reminder of his own shortcomings. This probably means that Kris is a person who is very hard on himself and dwells on his flaws. The rest of the details reinforce this: Asriel's wall is decorated with stars, referencing how Kris sees Asriel as "shining brightly like a star" while his is bare. Asriel has a clock on his drawer, clocks are objects which are used to keep time, symbolizing his willingness to rise early and be places on time, while Kris has no clock, he ignores the passage of time and doesn't care about being punctual. Asriel's lamp is on, while Kris' is off.

Asriel has a desktop computer, a piece of information technology representing how he's in touch with the bleeding edge of recent developments. In its place on his side of the room, Kris has a bird cage in a wagon. A bird trapped in this cage would be unable to fly away, it would have no choice but to go wherever the wagon takes it, this represents Kris' feelings of being trapped and having little agency over where life takes him. It's also worth noting that Asriel's side is slightly bigger than Kris'. This is representative of Kris relenting space to Asriel, meaning he thinks Asriel is more deserving than himself. The colors themselves are more saturated on Asriel's side, which makes Kris' side look dull in comparison.

It's also no coincidence that Asriel's side of the room is the left one. Because most people are right handed, they prefer sleeing on their left side so their right arm can stay free. Asriel would be able to sleep on his side and maintain awareness of the whole room, representing that he's aware of his place in life and the world, and that he's always dilligent and in control. Kris, meanwhile, would see only the wall, even if he turned around, his dominant arm would be trapped, tying back to his own lack of control.

There's also an element of love and reverence for Asriel, as Kris has made no attempt to interlope on Asriel's side of the room, despite his extended absence. He's left his belongings untouched, almost like a shrine in Asriel's honor.

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Ralsei's designated bedroom in his own castle is almost completely base, except for the unlockable plushie. He has put a double set of curtains on the window. Curtains like this are an embellishment mainly for the sake of style. That he would put up fancy curtains like this before any other fittings hints that Ralsei might be someone who doesn't have his priorities in order, that he's prone to putting the carriage before the horse, so to speak. The lack of furniture itself could be for two reasons: It could be that he doesn't care about furnishing his room, or that he hasn't figured out how he should furnish it.

He cared enough to put up curtains, stylish curtains that do more than serve the function of blocking the window, so I believe it is because he doesn't know how, he wants to put something there, but doesn't know what he wants his room to look like. This clearly shows that Ralsei has an identity crisis, the lack of any kind of furniture in his room represents the lack of identity and belonging in his mind. If Ralsei slept in this room, he would sleep on the floor, which is uncomfortable, representing how he doesn't feel comfortable with himself.

His choice to prioritize curtains as the sole feature of his room represents his need for privacy and secrecy, and reveals that he's probably hiding many things, windows literally give insight into people's homes and lives, his desperation to block that insight shows that he doesn't want to reveal too much about himself to others. Or maybe it's the other way around, and the curtains are mainly to block himself from looking out, representing his unwillingness to see the outside and his desire to lock himself in his own world?

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Unlike Ralsei, the barrenness of Susie's room more likely stems from her lacking the means to decorate it, rather than an unwillingness to. The room itself looks squalid, the wallpaper is tearing, and Susie appears not to have made any attempt to fix it. This clearly represents Susie's neglect of herself and her life. The decay of her room is a factor outside her control, the lack of any effort to remedy it shows that she doesn't take initiative, and would rather stay detached from the encroaching rot, also figuratively, it represents how she doesn't care what happens to her, she doesn't plan far into the future.

The poster on the wall is peeling off, it's something Susie could fix easily, but doesn't, and it reinforces the previous point about self-neglect. I speculate the poster might be covering up a bossmanjack style gamba sesh punch hole. The fact Susie made the effort to at least cover this up subconsciously means she wants to hide her aggression, even if she fails at it. The poster itself depicts a scene from a kaiju film. I'm not an expert at kaiju films, but if someone puts up a poster from a movie, it generally means they relate strongly to that movie. What does Susie see in this movie that she relates so strongly to? Could it be that she relates to the monster in the movie, the destructive force of nature that brings terror and destruction wherever it goes, symbolical of Susie's feelings of being a (literal)monster, destroying everything she gets near including her personal relationships, willing or unwilling? Or does she relate more to the people in the kaiju film, being at the mercy of a giant monster that could destroy them all with ease, representative of Susie feeling like she's at the mercy of her life circumstances? I think it's actually a little of both.

The shelf above the bed is the exact same sprite as the one in Kris' room, but there's nothing to contrast with here, it's just an empty shelf. The emptiness of the shelf just makes the room look even more empty than it would if there was no shelf, it emphasizes her feeling of general emptiness and lack of meaning.

The most interesting thing in the room is the chair in the middle of the room. The chair is turned to face Susie's bed. If someone were to sit in this chair while she slept, they would be watching her sleep. Most people would avoid putting a chair in this position for that reason, it's a "cuck chair". Susie, however, has chosen to install the chair in this way. It reveals Susie's subconscious desire to be seen. Since Susie holds her axe in her left hand, it probably means she's left handed, which means she would prefer to sleep on her right side. While laying in bed, Susie would be able to see the chair, revealing a willingness not just to be seen, but also to see and interact with others, all this probably means she feels very lonely. The chair's position in the middle of the room means that a person sitting in it would be in the center of the room and at the center of her attention, it hints at a gentler and more caring side, that she would be willing to put someone else in the center under the right conditions.
 
It's also worth noting that Asriel's side is slightly bigger than Kris'. This is representative of Kris relenting space to Asriel, meaning he thinks Asriel is more deserving than himself.
I thought that's because Asriel is clearly the favored kid.

It's also no coincidence that Asriel's side of the room is the left one. Because most people are right handed, they prefer sleeing on their left side so their right arm can stay free. Asriel would be able to sleep on his side and maintain awareness of the whole room, representing that he's aware of his place in life and the world, and that he's always dilligent and in control. Kris, meanwhile, would see only the wall, even if he turned around, his dominant arm would be trapped, tying back to his own lack of control.
Isn't Kris left-handed IIRC?
Good wall-of-text analysis.

He's left his belongings untouched, almost like a shrine in Asriel's honor.
Except for that dragon coloring book, kek.

hat does Susie see in this movie that she relates so strongly to?
She does get a costume of Godzilla, she has a thing for it.
 
his hair is designed in a way that makes it hard to tell if it's curly or straight
No the hair's pretty clear cut and not ambiguous, it's like bowl cut mop head.


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You can really see it in the merch and the more HD preview art, though I'm pretty sure the steam preview art is early concept stuff because of how he looks more like the animal crossing villager with a bowl cut in it than the comical -_- faced kid and his bangs are completely different.

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I'm watching the Asriel fight in the anniversary stream.
That scrolling collage of everyone's memories avatars is like the offended page on Encyclopedia Dramatica.
It might as well be gore. It's just a horrifyingly long list of troon OCs.
 
Either humans, who are established to be magic users (in Undertale), are a fantasy species which is genderless - which would be in-line with other fantasy species in this fantasy setting - or every single human we’ve seen and heard about across both games just happened to be nonbinary by pure coincidence. You tell me which is more likely.
I'm going with option 3; it was meant to be ambiguous so people can write their own version of how the war went. A tad before the Gerson scene, Toby basically spoke about how he wishes that fans expand the underground lore and don't restrict themselves by just what Toby says



With that in mind considering how barely any fans ever tackle the war between humans and monsters, I think Toby was trying to give something to make fans more interested in that aspect of the game and create something around it, so being vague about one of the mages is perfectly reasonable.
 
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