Twitter 5/24 - Chris roasts Kengle again

[No_one]

Who’s Chola-brows? I missed something.

https://sonichu.com/cwcki/Jessica_Quinn

 

[Marvin]

A religion is defined as "a cultural system of designated behaviors and practices, world views, texts, sanctified places, prophesies, ethics, or organizations, that claims to relate humanity to supernatural, transcendental, or spiritual elements". From what I know of Chris's beliefs, they're in no way comparable to a religion.

Why not?

You haven't explained that.

He's got an organized system of belief (cwcville, different fantasy universes and how they interact). He's got rituals (the curseyehameha, binaural beats). He's got objects with religious significance (his medallion, his ring). He's got scripture (the Sonichu comics, which he claims to represent an actual slice of reality somehow).

Pretty much the only thing he doesn't have is followers. And I don't know, one of these days I wouldn't be surprised to hear about the First Church of Sonichu having worshippers. Heh, Chris could start giving sermons in the park.

 

[Henry Wyatt]

I'm a little concerned as to what he means by this

he is summoning neptuna from the horde

 

[Henry Wyatt]

Christ chan joins the local mafia for legos when?

instead of breaking arms he rapes people with his unclit

 

[Zilortha]

Why not?

You haven't explained that.

He's got an organized system of belief (cwcville, different fantasy universes and how they interact). He's got rituals (the curseyehameha, binaural beats). He's got objects with religious significance (his medallion, his ring). He's got scripture (the Sonichu comics, which he claims to represent an actual slice of reality somehow).

Pretty much the only thing he doesn't have is followers. And I don't know, one of these days I wouldn't be surprised to hear about the First Church of Sonichu having worshippers. Heh, Chris could start giving sermons in the park.

Lol goddammit Marvin. That's such a stretch and you know it. Nothing you listed actually deals in religious topics. The most basic question you can ask to determine if something is a religion is this: does it deal with spirituality? The answer is a resounding no in the case of Chris's beliefs. They just deal with fictional relationships he believes he's involved in.

His organized system of beliefs are delusions developed from his webcomic (and perhaps weens) and have no spiritual meaning, present no ethical guidelines and teach no cosmology, etc. His "rituals" are literal examples of magical thinking that have no spiritual significance. His relics are just over appreciated junk from his past with no spiritual ties, only egotistical reverence. His scripture also doesn't deal with anything a religion typically deals in. There's no cosmology, no code of ethics, nothing involving spirituality whatsoever. It's just a bad webcomic.

If this is a religion, dub it the First Church of Autism, because all I'm seeing here is a lonely autistic man who's been trolled for over a decade engaging in delusional imaginary play. If he adds in some spiritual bullshit maybe you'd have a case.

 

[Mariposa Electrique]

Heh, Chris could start giving sermons in the park.

It would make him easier to cath with a buttery net and thorzine.

 

[Marvin]

Lol goddammit Marvin. That's such a stretch and you know it. Nothing you listed actually deals in religious topics. The most basic question you can ask to determine if something is a religion is this: does it deal with spirituality? The answer is a resounding no in the case of Chris's beliefs. They just deal with fictional relationships he believes he's involved in.

His organized system of beliefs are delusions developed from his webcomic (and perhaps silly guys) and have no spiritual meaning, present no ethical guidelines and teach no cosmology, etc. His "rituals" are literal examples of magical thinking that have no spiritual significance. His relics are just over appreciated junk from his past with no spiritual ties, only egotistical reverence. His scripture also doesn't deal with anything a religion typically deals in. There's no cosmology, no code of ethics, nothing involving spirituality whatsoever. It's just a bad webcomic.

If this is a religion, dub it the First Church of Autism, because all I'm seeing here is a lonely autistic man who's been trolled for over a decade engaging in delusional imaginary play. If he adds in some spiritual bullshit maybe you'd have a case.

It does. Chris' overarching spiritual belief is that reality consists of multiple layers of parallel realities that interact. He believes there are multiple Chris Chans, for example. That is a spiritual belief on its face.

 

[Zilortha]

It does. Chris' overarching spiritual belief is that reality consists of multiple layers of parallel realities that interact. He believes there are multiple Chris Chans, for example. That is a spiritual belief on its face.

It isn't though. Tons of religions believe in multiple layers of reality. Buddhism is a great example. But whereas Buddhism has spiritual beliefs, rituals, a cosmology, ethics, etc. Chris's beliefs have none of that. You can believe in multiple realities or universes without it being religious. Many atheists believe in parallel universes, etc. The concept itself isn't inherently religious.

Here's where I'll meet you: Chris's beliefs are borderline. If someone filled in the gaps with actual spiritual beliefs, you might have a point (and if that were the case I don't think I'd have an argument at all). But since he's lacking the most basic requirements to classify a belief system as a religion? It just doesn't make sense imo to call it a religion.

Do me a favor Marvin. Extrapolate on Chris's former opinions on "God, Jesus, and the Bear" for me. Because that's something I might consider "religious" coming from Chris if I've got the story right.

 

[AnOminous]

Many atheists believe in parallel universes, etc.

The many-worlds interpretation of quantum mechanics is scientific, not spiritual.

 

[Marvin]

It isn't though. Tons of religions believe in multiple layers of reality. Buddhism is a great example. But whereas Buddhism has spiritual beliefs, rituals, a cosmology, ethics, etc. Chris's beliefs have none of that.

Chris' beliefs do have rituals. He believes he can curse people with bad luck, like with the curseyehameha. He actually believes it has an effect. He thought he cursed Mary Lee Walsh to have poor career prospects. He also has his weird lego rituals, where he thought he could curse Megan, Mary Lee Walsh and Mike Snyder with smelling like feet if he walked around with their lego avatars in his socks.

That's like textbook primitive human religious expression.

Chris' beliefs also have a cosmology. He's got a theory in his religion about how Cwcville came to be, and how his deities, like Sonichu, came to be. He doesn't think this is just a story anymore, but he thinks it actually happened. He thinks one day he'll go to his version of heaven (cwcville).

What do you think Chris' religion is missing?

All I can see it missing is gravitas. We laugh at cargo cults, but still, from an anthropological perspective, they're genuine religious expressions.

You can believe in multiple realities or universes without it being religious. Many atheists believe in parallel universes, etc. The concept itself isn't inherently religious.

The only reason an atheist belief in parallel universes isn't spiritual is because they chalk it up to a naturalistic explanation. If they didn't, if they thought it was some supernatural thing, then yeah, that'd be a religious belief as well. Heh, but that wouldn't be a very atheistic thing to believe in.

 

[Mariposa Electrique]

Chris' beliefs do have rituals. He believes he can curse people with bad luck, like with the curseyehameha. He actually believes it has an effect. He thought he cursed Mary Lee Walsh to have poor career prospects. He also has his weird lego rituals, where he thought he could curse Megan, Mary Lee Walsh and Mike Snyder with smelling like feet if he walked around with their lego avatars in his socks.

That's like textbook primitive human religious expression.

Chris' beliefs also have a cosmology. He's got a theory in his religion about how Cwcville came to be, and how his deities, like Sonichu, came to be. He doesn't think this is just a story anymore, but he thinks it actually happened. He thinks one day he'll go to his version of heaven (cwcville).

What do you think Chris' religion is missing?

All I can see it missing is gravitas. We laugh at cargo cults, but still, from an anthropological perspective, they're genuine religious expressions.

The only reason an atheist belief in parallel universes isn't spiritual is because they chalk it up to a naturalistic explanation. If they didn't, if they thought it was some supernatural thing, then yeah, that'd be a religious belief as well. Heh, but that wouldn't be a very atheistic thing to believe in.

Marvin, do you believe Chris' religion is rooted in narcissism? As is in himself playing a central god figure?
Also, what do you make of his pretend marriage to Magi-Chan. Does Chris want a real husband?

 

[Marvin]

Marvin, do you believe Chris' religion is rooted in narcissism? As is in himself playing a central god figure?

Not intentionally, but more or less, yes.

Chris' beliefs always seem to benefit him. Everyone with half a brain knows that Chris is asspatting himself with his dumb beliefs, but Chris isn't able to recognize the bias in his beliefs.

"wow, this god figure I invented says I'm going to be super pretty and setsy, weird huh??"

Also, what do you make of his pretend marriage to Magi-Chan. Does Chris want a real husband?

Probably an anime husband.

 

[LiveFromNS]

Marvin, do you believe Chris' religion is rooted in narcissism? As is in himself playing a central god figure?
Also, what do you make of his pretend marriage to Magi-Chan. Does Chris want a real husband?

Chris' beliefs also have a cosmology. He's got a theory in his religion about how Cwcville came to be, and how his deities, like Sonichu, came to be. He doesn't think this is just a story anymore, but he thinks it actually happened. He thinks one day he'll go to his version of heaven (cwcville).

I'd like to see Chris' drawing of what the "God" of his alternate reality Sonichu/Toon dimension looks like. Someone should call him on that and get him to draw the higher beings he sees in his head.

 

[Marvin]

I'd like to see Chris' drawing of what the "God" of his alternate reality Sonichu/Toon dimension looks like. Someone should call him on that and get him to draw the higher beings he sees in his head.

He should write and publish his bible. It'll be a more autistic Dianetics.

 

[Zilortha]

Chris' beliefs do have rituals. He believes he can curse people with bad luck, like with the curseyehameha. He actually believes it has an effect. He thought he cursed Mary Lee Walsh to have poor career prospects. He also has his weird lego rituals, where he thought he could curse Megan, Mary Lee Walsh and Mike Snyder with smelling like feet if he walked around with their lego avatars in his socks.

That's like textbook primitive human religious expression.

Chris' beliefs also have a cosmology. He's got a theory in his religion about how Cwcville came to be, and how his deities, like Sonichu, came to be. He doesn't think this is just a story anymore, but he thinks it actually happened. He thinks one day he'll go to his version of heaven (cwcville).

What do you think Chris' religion is missing?

All I can see it missing is gravitas. We laugh at cargo cults, but still, from an anthropological perspective, they're genuine religious expressions.

The only reason an atheist belief in parallel universes isn't spiritual is because they chalk it up to a naturalistic explanation. If they didn't, if they thought it was some supernatural thing, then yeah, that'd be a religious belief as well. Heh, but that wouldn't be a very atheistic thing to believe in.

People with OCD have irrational rituals too. But we wouldn't consider a guy who washes his hands 50 times a day a member of the "Church of Anointed Hands" lol. Magical thinking alone isn't a sign of a religion. Religions usually have examples of magical thinking, but magical thinking alone isn't indicative of a religion. It's like the square and rectangle classification.

And calling a comic book origin story a cosmology is really reaching imo. Does that mean that some other autistic person who's developed an obsession with Marvel and thinks it's real is a "Marvelist"? Is that a legitimate religion or a manifestation of mental illness? Because that's what this discussion is really about. And so far, what you're telling me isn't convincing me that Chris is developing a religion, but that he's mentally ill. This is a pretend power fantasy for him. That's all.

The biggest problem with ever classifying Chris's beliefs as a religion is that he has no true spiritual beliefs (though it's easy to stretch the beliefs he has presented in that manner, because his ideas come from a bad webcomic with obvious story issues and godlike OCs due to poor character development), and the concept for the religion is obviously coming from a person with a mental illness. You don't humor schizophrenics with paranoid persecutory delusions do you? I don't think that humoring Chris's beliefs is a good idea either. He might not be schizophrenic (as far as we know), but acting like this is just Chris's "expression of religion" is just as delusional. His beliefs aren't emanating from a spiritual place, but from his autism. And I can prove that because no one would choose a Pokemon/Sonic OC as their god if they're mentally stable.

If someone came up to me on the street and said that they can see aliens in the sky and that they beam transmissions into their head and start to proselytize their beliefs to me, I wouldn't think "Wow, what a weird new age religion". I'd think "Wow, schizophrenia is a fucking horrific illness".

EDIT:
Don't get me wrong. I think the idea is funny, but I just don't think it's a realistic conclusion. Not yet at least. Maybe if he keeps expanding on his beliefs, who knows.

 

[LiveFromNS]

He should write and publish his bible. It'll be a more autistic Dianetics.

Yes, that would be a treat to read as well.

As for the image of his Lord, I'd tell him if he drew it then people would stop saying he is crazy! And he could sell it on eBay for $500 cause one of his sheep would be quick to buy I am sure!

But yeah, more insight to what he sees in his other dimension would be pretty interesting.

And calling a comic book origin story a cosmology is really reaching imo. Does that mean that some other autistic person who's developed an obsession with Marvel and thinks it's real is a "Marvelist"? Is that a legitimate religion or a manifestation of mental illness? Because that's what this discussion is really about. And so far, what you're telling me isn't convincing me that Chris is developing a religion, but that he's mentally ill. This is a pretend power fantasy for him. That's all.

I might be wrong, but I think we all agree that Chris is mentally ill. I think what Marv is getting at is that in Chris' mind, it's religion. He probably has the whole Book of Genesis (probably even ties it in with the console! LOL) already visualized in his head.

Chris is developing a religion. A mentally ill version. You are both right. LOL

 

[Marvin]

People with OCD have irrational rituals too. But we wouldn't consider a guy who washes his hands 50 times a day a member of the "Church of Anointed Hands" lol. Magical thinking alone isn't a sign of a religion. Religions usually have examples of magical thinking, but magical thinking alone isn't indicative of a religion. It's like the square and rectangle classification.

And calling a comic book origin story a cosmology is really reaching imo. Does that mean that some other autistic person who's developed an obsession with Marvel and thinks it's real is a "Marvelist"? Is that a legitimate religion or a manifestation of mental illness? Because that's what this discussing is really about. And so far, what you're telling me isn't convincing me that Chris is developing a religion, but that he's mentally ill.

The biggest problem with ever classifying Chris's beliefs as a religion is that he has no true spiritual beliefs (though it's easy to stretch the beliefs he has presented in that manner, because his ideas come from a bad webcomic with obvious story issues and godlike OCs due to poor character development), and the concept for the religion is obviously coming from a person with a mental illness. You don't humor schizophrenics with paranoid persecutory delusions do you? I don't think that humoring Chris's beliefs is a good idea either. He might not be schizophrenic (as far as we know), but acting like this is just Chris's "expression of religion" is just as delusional. His beliefs aren't emanating from a spiritual place, but from his autism. And I can prove that because no one would choose a Pokemon/Sonic OC as their god if they're mentally stable.

If someone came up to me on the street and said that they can see aliens in the sky and that they beam transmissions into their head and start to proselytize their beliefs to me, I wouldn't think "Wow, what a weird new age religion". I'd think "Wow, schizophrenia is a fucking horrific illness".

EDIT:
Don't get me wrong. I think the idea is funny, but I just don't think it's a realistic conclusion. Not yet at least. Maybe if he keeps expanding on his beliefs, who knows.

Consider Mormonism. Consider Scientology.

Chris' beliefs are coming from a place of spirituality. I think it fulfills the exact same needs in him that straight religions do for other people. And yeah, I do think all new age religions are equally retarded and equally harmful.

The only reason existing religions are less harmful is because grownups are in charge of them, and not just a handful of randos. I think your arguments are more valid in, say, Germany, where they clamp down on weird cults more than we do in the US.

But we have a tradition in the US that says "hands off my religion, no matter how fucking dumb". I don't like it, and I think it opens up opportunities for grifters. But since that's the framework we're working in, we've got to be consistent.

By that standard, yeah, I do think UFO cults are legitimate religions. Like they exist as actually registered religions in the US. I just think religions are retarded to begin with.

Edit: Like I think you'd be surprised at how consistent the religious tropes are in Chris' beliefs. He cobbled together a religion from the only sources he knows: pop culture. But the emotional needs it fulfills in him are real.

I might be wrong, but I think we all agree that Chris is mentally ill. I think what Marv is getting at is that in Chris' mind, it's religion. He probably has the whole Book of Genesis (probably even ties it in with the console! LOL) already visualized in his head.

Chris is developing a religion. A mentally ill version. You are both right. LOL

Chris is fucking bonkers.

But yeah, his crazy beliefs fulfill the same emotional needs in him that normal religions do. It comes from the same place. A need for control in their life where they otherwise have none.

 

[Null]

This reaks of a sold Twitter account

It's not sold. I chased that guy off.

 

[Zilortha]

Consider Mormonism. Consider Scientology.

Chris' beliefs are coming from a place of spirituality. I think it fulfills the exact same needs in him that straight religions do for other people. And yeah, I do think all new age religions are equally exceptional and equally harmful.

The only reason existing religions are less harmful is because grownups are in charge of them, and not just a handful of randos. I think your arguments are more valid in, say, Germany, where they clamp down on weird cults more than we do in the US.

But we have a tradition in the US that says "hands off my religion, no matter how fucking dumb". I don't like it, and I think it opens up opportunities for grifters. But since that's the framework we're working in, we've got to be consistent.

By that standard, yeah, I do think UFO cults are legitimate religions. Like they exist as actually registered religions in the US. I just think religions are exceptional to begin with.

Edit: Like I think you'd be surprised at how consistent the religious tropes are in Chris' beliefs. He cobbled together a religion from the only sources he knows: pop culture. But the emotional needs it fulfills in him are real.

Chris is fucking bonkers.

But yeah, his crazy beliefs fulfill the same emotional needs in him that normal religions do. It comes from the same place. A need for control in their life where they otherwise have none.

Mormonism I can't defend. I don't know enough about it to talk about it tbh. But Scientology is a cult created by a mentally ill sci-fi writer. I don't think it's a fucking religion either (primarily because it's a scheme to take people's money).

And laws shouldn't change the facts. I'm not talking about a "legally recognized religions". I don't care about that. I'm talking about the philosophy involved in religions. I agree that the States laws regarding religion is dumb. I understand it, but it's dumb. But it doesn't mean that we, as individuals, have to accept other people's dumb delusions as religions just because their beliefs vaguely resemble them.

The line between delusions, magical thinking, and religion is thin. Yeah, religion provides people comfort and control and is an outlet of faith. But that doesn't mean every comforting delusion is a religious belief. I mean is it really surprising that a mentally ill, lonely autistic man would create a fantasy world to believe in that would provide him some sort of emotional fulfillment? No psychiatrist on earth would call that a "religion". They'd call it a coping mechanism.

I might be wrong, but I think we all agree that Chris is mentally ill. I think what Marv is getting at is that in Chris' mind, it's religion. He probably has the whole Book of Genesis (probably even ties it in with the console! LOL) already visualized in his head.

Chris is developing a religion. A mentally ill version. You are both right. LOL

But my point is that even if Chris treats his beliefs with reverence, he's still delusional and using these flights of fancy as a coping method. I'm looking at this from a psychiatrist/psychologist point of view, where I feel like Marvin is looking at this from an philosopher/anthropologist's point of view. It's hard to come to an agreement because we're interpreting things completely differently.

To some degree you're right. There's no right answer here because it's beyond complicated and it's hard to make distinctions. But I truly believe my point of view, as well I'm sure Marvin believes his. Different perspectives I suppose...

 

[Kosher Dill]

I'd like to see Chris' drawing of what the "God" of his alternate reality Sonichu/Toon dimension looks like.

The Neptunia goddesses, most likely. He abandoned his nominal Christianity for them.