The Star Citizen Communities

[TenMilesWide]

I actually wanted there to be a bit of decent competition in the space sim/dogfighting game arena, but I remain utterly unconvinced that star star citizen is actually going to happen (i.e. actual public release of a post-rc version) within this decade, if ever.

Absolutely agreed, if just for the fact that I want the Elite devs to do their fucking jobs with bug fixes, and a solid competitor would surely convince them that that needs doing. Unfortunate that it seems SC won't help in that regard any time soon.

 

[gobbogobb]

Absolutely agreed, if just for the fact that I want the Elite devs to do their fucking jobs with bug fixes, and a solid competitor would surely convince them that that needs doing. Unfortunate that it seems SC won't help in that regard any time soon.

That's the saddest part about the whole thing. "At least we aren't star citizen." is now a valid (albeit weak) argument for why your game is shit. The bar for quality in the genre is now 'game exists'

 

[Blagher]

Star citizen sorta does make me wonder what is the norm for game development though. Before Kickstarter and early access we never really got to see how the sausage was made.

I wonder if this is why we don't see many games that are truly innovative from AAA studios these days

 

[Alec Benson Leary]

I wonder if this is why we don't see many games that are truly innovative from AAA studios these days

A big factor there is just that AAA games cost tens of millions to make now when they never used to. They're too costly for studios to want to take risks, same as Hollywood with blockbuster films.

 

[gobbogobb]

A big factor there is just that AAA games cost tens of millions to make now when they never used to. They're too costly for studios to want to take risks, same as Hollywood with blockbuster films.

Add to that AAA studios have this thing called accountability, which Kickstarter shit will never have thanks to Star Citizen.

 

[Destro1986]

I can't believe the insanity that is the Star Citizen Cult only has 6 pages here.

You guys should check in, the community is devouring itself over CIG quietly phasing out one of their P2W defenses.

Also, just want to say that Roberts figured out the trick Molyneux and Murray never did.

If you don't release a game, people can't be disappointed in it.

 

[altkiwi01]

Star citizen sorta does make me wonder what is the norm for game development though. Before Kickstarter and early access we never really got to see how the sausage was made.

Normal game dev is a pretty ridiculous process. Hell, even regular web dev is the same. Goals change, progress is slow (when you're building from the ground up), development is hard and it takes time.

The problem with Star Citizen is that they pretty much launched the kickstarter with a minimal, bare bones dev team, building a game (not even a AAA game) is hard enough when you don't have to deal with building a company. You've got to manage people and teams, ensure you're building the right stuff and managing architectural decisions correctly. Everything and everyone needs to be somewhat co-ordinated, its a complex process, and there is lots that can go wrong. World of Warcraft for example took around 5 years to make, GTA IV as well, however, they were created by large teams with a few other (and similar) games under their belts, they also weren't trying to heavily modify a FPS engine for a super large scale space mmo.

 

[Destro1986]

Normal game dev is a pretty ridiculous process. Hell, even regular web dev is the same. Goals change, progress is slow (when you're building from the ground up), development is hard and it takes time.

The problem with Star Citizen is that they pretty much launched the kickstarter with a minimal, bare bones dev team, building a game (not even a AAA game) is hard enough when you don't have to deal with building a company. You've got to manage people and teams, ensure you're building the right stuff and managing architectural decisions correctly. Everything and everyone needs to be somewhat co-ordinated, its a complex process, and there is lots that can go wrong. World of Warcraft for example took around 5 years to make, GTA IV as well, however, they were created by large teams with a few other (and similar) games under their belts, they also weren't trying to heavily modify a FPS engine for a super large scale space mmo.

Also they didn't spend a lot of time and effort making high end art assets before they had the mechanics down.

They also didn't scatter their devs across the globe and have them working on different things like they're terrorist cells lol

 

[altkiwi01]

They also didn't scatter their devs across the globe and have them working on different things like they're terrorist cells lol

Surprisingly, lots of large studios do this (have multiple studios working on bits of a game), and it makes sense for RSI as well. We just don't hear about it usually because the other studios are under contract (rather than being full time employed by the company). They've got their Euro office for engine development to take advantage of the Cry Engine devs that left Crytek, the UK office to handle cinematic/story things (I'm assuming for cost/talent reasons), and the US offices presumably for talent reasons as well. Its one of the things they're actually doing really well.

 

[Derp Potato]

...this game still isn't fucking released?

Frankie on PC was peddling this shit back in like what, 2013? 2014? "Oi, just spend a few hundred dollars on this totally sweet ship that you can get in and out of. Totally worth it. Even options for a couple Grand!"

Looked great, but that was it.

 

[DrunkJoe]

Its funny no mans sky is in a better place than star citizen right now. Nms was a shitshow 2 years ago.

 

[Destro1986]

Surprisingly, lots of large studios do this (have multiple studios working on bits of a game), and it makes sense for RSI as well. We just don't hear about it usually because the other studios are under contract (rather than being full time employed by the company). They've got their Euro office for engine development to take advantage of the Cry Engine devs that left Crytek, the UK office to handle cinematic/story things (I'm assuming for cost/talent reasons), and the US offices presumably for talent reasons as well. Its one of the things they're actually doing really well.

How's that been working out? lol Over budget and under producing from the bigger teams at the big devs? Almost like your teams not having easy communication being a huge detriment?

The only reason the AAA behemoths can make it work is because they'll crack the whip. It takes a combination of purpose and ruthlessness to make it happen.

Them having 500 devs doesn't make sense, having them split up and unable to communicate freely makes even less. Also, don't those spread out teams usually work on different projects?

Anyway, I'm pretty sure they did it in order to hire friends and family, as well as to make it easier to rob the project blind. I don't trust movie producers, and I'm pretty sure he was tangled up in that whole "cheap German movies as a tax scam" deal.

Its funny no mans sky is in a better place than star citizen right now. Nms was a shitshow 2 years ago.

SC was always behind NMS, Roberts just didn't get the same attention cause the publishers won't give Roberts the time of day.

 

[altkiwi01]

Them having 500 devs doesn't make sense, having them split up and unable to communicate freely makes even less. Also, don't those spread out teams usually work on different projects?

Anyway, I'm pretty sure they did it in order to hire friends and family, as well as to make it easier to rob the project blind. I don't trust movie producers, and I'm pretty sure he was tangled up in that whole "cheap German movies as a tax scam" deal.

Sorry dude, that's clearly not the case. I'm not a huge CIG fan, the way they've split the teams up makes perfect sense. The company that I work for is a large, fully remote software company, and we have zero problems communicating between teams. Its really simple, and if you're managing your teams right its not difficult to work across multiple time zones.

Having offices in Germany gives them access to all the Crytek employees that lost their jobs, and the US offices give them access to the rest of the engineering talent they need. Its hard enough finding people who can do this shit without having to fully relocate or train new engineers up.

 

[Destro1986]

Sorry dude, that's clearly not the case. I'm not a huge CIG fan, the way they've split the teams up makes perfect sense. The company that I work for is a large, fully remote software company, and we have zero problems communicating between teams. Its really simple, and if you're managing your teams right its not difficult to work across multiple time zones.

Having offices in Germany gives them access to all the Crytek employees that lost their jobs, and the US offices give them access to the rest of the engineering talent they need. Its hard enough finding people who can do this shit without having to fully relocate or train new engineers up.

Sure, "IF YOU'RE MANAGING RIGHT' IE if your team leads are accountable and you have systems in place. One or two offices maybe, but they've hired too many people in too many places for what should have been a relatively simple game. They over expanded, bought out teams across the world and had no idea how to manage it all.

I didn't say it's impossible, I literally said you have to have a large company with focus and a ruthlessness (i.e. the points of contact between teams have to be good at their jobs and accountable when they fail).

I'm also pretty sure that most companies that do things like that do it fairly organically, building up, they don't tend to have that many studios without a proven management system and a proven company organization.

 

[superscript]

...this game still isn't fucking released?

Copying my comment from the other SC thread:

I think this is it. What's out is the game. According to Reddit, Roberts has begun calling it early-access instead of alpha or beta. Roberts will half-assedly polish it to make it look like they implemented features but that's it. They're probably going to pull a DF-9 and declare whatever is out the final version.

There's a chance SQ42 will come out because Erin seems more grounded, but I doubt it will pull in any major revenue.

 

[Whitesnake]

Crazy how history repeats itself.

I remember people hyping this game up back in 2012, and back then I was skeptical. The things they were promising couldn't even reliably be done by AAA devs with a huge budget. I also pointed out that people shouldn't put all their faith into a bunch of unproven indie devs, and that it was retarded of them to be selling ships for hundreds of irl dollars. I was downvoted and shat on for this skepticism. Cut to today, not only does the game not exist in a functioning state, but they've announced P2W mechanics. I was right.

Back when NMS was being hyped up I pointed out that the 10-second trailer was worthless and the we still hadn't seen real gameplay or heard real news, and that the things they were promising were impossible for an indie dev to do. I was downvoted and shat on for this skepticism. Then when NMS came out, people were somehow shocked by the lack of features.

These people are some of the biggest retards on the planet, I swear.

 

[thejackal]

Crazy how history repeats itself.

I remember people hyping this game up back in 2012, and back then I was skeptical. The things they were promising couldn't even reliably be done by AAA devs with a huge budget. I also pointed out that people shouldn't put all their faith into a bunch of unproven indie devs, and that it was exceptional of them to be selling ships for hundreds of irl dollars. I was downvoted and shat on for this skepticism. Cut to today, not only does the game not exist in a functioning state, but they've announced P2W mechanics. I was right.

Back when NMS was being hyped up I pointed out that the 10-second trailer was worthless and the we still hadn't seen real gameplay or heard real news, and that the things they were promising were impossible for an indie dev to do. I was downvoted and shat on for this skepticism. Then when NMS came out, people were somehow shocked by the lack of features.

These people are some of the biggest exceptional individuals on the planet, I swear.

The NMS reddit was a great source of entertainment last summer. Software fanbois are a strange bunch no doubt. They "want to believe" and a good snake oil salesman can sell them a lot of it before they get tired. And even then their investment usually means they won't full turn on the devs, even when they keep serving them piles of shit. Sean Murray is still a hero to a lot of NMS fans, even tho the dude pretty much lied through his teeth in order to keep pre-sales high until launch.

 

[Ginger Piglet]

Copying my comment from the other SC thread:

I think this is it. What's out is the game. According to Reddit, Roberts has begun calling it early-access instead of alpha or beta. Roberts will half-assedly polish it to make it look like they implemented features but that's it. They're probably going to pull a DF-9 and declare whatever is out the final version.

There's a chance SQ42 will come out because Erin seems more grounded, but I doubt it will pull in any major revenue.

Can someone remind me exactly what parts of Star Citizen are actually playable right now, other than the pay to win system?

 

[Viridian]

Can someone remind me exactly what parts of Star Citizen are actually playable right now, other than the pay to win system?

Per this article:

Hangar Module: You get to walk around and inside a virtual ship (or at least some of the inside of the ship; you can't view the cargo bay for some reason), that you probably paid thousands of real world dollars for.

Arena Commander: PvP and PvE dogfighting sim.

Ship Boarding: First person shooter module.

Persistent Universe: 3D chatroom space that lets you buy and sell cargo and gear for the ship you paid thousands for.

The promised single-player campaign, Squadron 42, is allegedly in current development. They fucked up the first build (according to their own press releases) and are having to rebuild it from the ground up in a new engine.

 

[Ginger Piglet]

Per this article:

Hangar Module: You get to walk around and inside a virtual ship (or at least some of the inside of the ship; you can't view the cargo bay for some reason), that you probably paid thousands of real world dollars for.

Arena Commander: PvP and PvE dogfighting sim.

Ship Boarding: First person shooter module.

Persistent Universe: 3D chatroom space that lets you buy and sell cargo and gear for the ship you paid thousands for.

The promised single-player campaign, Squadron 42, is allegedly in current development. They fucked up the first build (according to their own press releases) and are having to rebuild it from the ground up in a new engine.

So I can't launch, lay in a course for Hutton Orbital, Alpha Centauri and engage hyperdrive then, before picking up a shipment of mugs, or equivalent?

...People pay money for this? Why? :autistic: alone doesn't explain it.