🐱 The Socialist Dune?

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Frank Herbert’s Dune has been pushed to the forefront of popular discourse thanks to Denis Villeneuve’s blockbuster adaptation (and the associated marketing push). Despite its status as a classic of American science fiction, Dune and the series it began have received less scholarly attention than contemporaries like J.R.R. Tolkien’s Lord of the Rings or the works of Kurt Vonnegut, meaning there is less expert consensus to guide commentators, pundits, and regular folks trying to sort out the novel’s meaning and politics, in its time and in ours.

The one thing that most scholars and commentators seem to agree is that “Dune is more relevant than ever.” Few agree, however, on just what aspects of the text are relevant today, to whom, or why. Some have decried Dune as an exemplar of the most toxic tropes lurking in science fiction, calling the novel an orientalist fever dream, a paean to eugenics, and a seductive monument to fascist aesthetics; others look at the same text and see an excoriation of hero worship, a cautionary tale of revolutionary dreams betrayed, and a warning about indigenous sovereignty subverted by a charismatic charlatan.

Both of these interpretations are grounded in clear textual evidence, and part of the novel’s enduring appeal is its ability to inspire such seemingly contradictory takes. Indeed, it’s not despite but because of these contradictions that the novel has exerted such a pull on the left-wing imagination over the years — and retains its uses for left-wing politics today.

Herbert said many times that Dune’s central theme is the “dangers of the superhero.” In a piece of that name, republished in Tim O’Reilly’s The Maker of Dune, Herbert claims that “the original spark” of the novel was his conviction that “superheroes are disastrous for mankind,” and a desire to dramatize how the mythmaking impulse that crowns a hero inevitably conjures a toxic, totalitarian social system of “demagogues, fanatics, con-game artists . . . [and] innocent and not so innocent bystanders.”

Dune, then, explores what makes the hero seductive enough that people willingly, even rapturously, “turn over their judgement and decision-making faculties.” This framing locates Dune alongside projects like Theodor Adorno’s “F-Scale,” in the grand tradition of postwar theorizing about fascist subjectivity. Rather than theorize the seductiveness of the fascist imagination, Herbert’s novel is intended to function as a trap, a mechanism intended both to perform the siren song of hero worship and simultaneously estrange readers from that experience, exposing their own complicit desires for it.

The result is a text in which the surface narrative of imperial power fantasy is conveyed through multiple viewpoints, each of which undercuts and complicates the others. The novel provides plenty of clues for how readers are intended to approach this hedge of perspectives. An example is Leto’s advice to a young Paul:

Knowing where the trap is — that’s the first step in evading it. This is like single combat, Son, only on a larger scale — a feint within a feint within a feint . . . seemingly without end. The task is to unravel it.
Leto speaks of the politics in the novel, but his advice applies to the politics of the novel, too. Little should be taken at face value. Each element of the narrative is meant to provoke reactions in the reader, misdirect their attention, and set them up for the next confounding or estranging jolt.

The critical elements of the novel are found in the framing and subtext, in the interplay of perspective, and especially in the sardonic tone that suffuses the text. Here again, the text offers the careful reader clear instruction. In one of the epigraphs framing the narrative, Paul says of his own performance as a “hero”:

The person experiencing greatness . . . must have a strong sense of the sardonic. This is what uncouples him from belief in his own pretensions. The sardonic is all that permits him to move within himself.
Dune’s dour, self-lacerating tone is what allows the novel to “move within” itself and its own heroic pretensions. Stilted dialogue, caustic asides, and other sour notes dampen ostensibly epic and exciting plot elements, recasting Paul’s “hero’s journey” as a descent into cynical self-destruction, as when Paul turns to his companion Stilgar, in a moment of triumph, to find his friend has “become a worshipper,” a mere “creature” ruined by Paul’s own ambition. By poisoning its feast of fascist aesthetics, the novel strives to put us off the taste for good.

The first and in some ways most important reader to fall into this trap was John W. Campbell, editor of Analog Science Fiction and Fact magazine, where the first version of Dune was serially published. A notorious aficionado of psychic übermenschen, Campbell was thrilled by this “grand yarn,” and his correspondence with Herbert about the manuscript shows little initial awareness of its critical treatment of his favorite themes.

Campbell’s embrace allowed the ambitious narrative to see the light of day: Without the Analog publication, Herbert would have had an even harder time selling the text as a novel. But his reaction also showed the weakness in the book’s approach. While the seductive fascist aesthetic is right up on the surface, inescapable, the critical and estranging elements have proved all too easy to miss, by Campbell and generations of readers that have followed him. Worse, this narrative mechanism is most likely to fail those already targeted for fascist recruiting: Young people and those underserved by our devastated educational systems.

For all readers, making sense of a narrative comprised of feints within feints, “seemingly without end,” means your ultimate interpretation is mostly a function of the level at which you choose to stop digging. Scholars like David Higgins and Jordan Scott Carroll have recently shown that both naïve and more motivated readings centering the fascist spectacle in Dune have made the novel a touchstone of the modern right; indeed, as Daniel Immerwahr and Chris Dite have argued, some of these “bad” readings might be closer to Herbert’s own views than many fans like to admit.

The key for the Left, then, is to pay more attention to the questions the text raises, rather than the tainted answers it offers. For instance, as mentioned, Dune gives us an extended critique of the hero mystique. It asks how we reevaluate the role of iconic political figures in light of Paul’s “bad heroism,” and how we build on their vision and charisma while avoiding Stilgar’s fate; how, ultimately, we remain comrades in struggle, rather than idols and worshippers. (The second novel in the series, Dune Messiah, is helpful here, as the autocratic tendencies in Paul’s “heroism” and their grim consequences rise to the surface.)

Meanwhile, as Immerwahr has shown, Herbert’s representation of indigeneity is vexed at best. The novel’s portrait of the Fremen’s “desert power” and the ecological literacy underlying it is steeped in the distinctively libertarian countercultural mode of Northern California in the mid-1960s, best expressed in the eclectic DIY ethos of Stewart Brand’s Whole Earth Catalog — which presented materials ranging from homesteading supplies to books on non-Western philosophy as “tools” with which the settler-colonial hipster can pioneer their own intentional community.

The celebration of ecological wisdom in the novel is always, at the same time, the expansion of the imperial subject’s power over themselves and their environment — what Higgins has called fantasies of “psychic decolonization” — even if the novel undercuts such fantasies by holding that such attempts at control inevitably fail.

As we seek paths to avoid environmental catastrophe, acting in solidarity with indigenous communities and honoring and learning from their traditional knowledges will be key to our survival. How, then, can we avoid the approaches the novel dramatizes, which appropriate and instrumentalize such wisdom, weaponizing it as means of power-over?

Similar questions apply to the novel’s portrayal of women, which, as Kara Kennedy has argued, is complex and sometimes contradictory. Lady Jessica is, for most practical purposes, the coprotagonist of the first half of the novel, but she and the rest of the mysterious and potent Bene Gesserit order are ultimately cast as Paul’s antagonists, and his co-option of their feminine-coded abilities for his own masculine purposes is central to his ascent to superheroism.

Making these women the perpetrators of the breeding program that produced Paul’s superhuman powers (and those of the rest of the novels’ extraordinarily skilled characters) means that they ultimately take the fall for Herbert’s own eugenicist predilections.

The Bene Gesserit and their powers are pathologized in the narrative in a manner that makes shaming and repudiating them central to Paul’s own “heroic journey” — but his appropriation of the “Bene Gesserit Way” also helps us think about the ways neoliberal capitalism and the gig economy exploit and commodify the kin-keeping and caring labor most often performed by women.

My own work has focused on how Dune’s fetishization of training and human potential anticipates neoliberalism’s transformation of human beings into human capital, to be managed and developed to maximize returns on investment. Paul is one of the first superheroes whose powers turn on speculation and preemption: Rather than being fantastically strong and powerful like Superman, he uses his prescience and minutely trained senses to invest the minimum force to the precise points where it will have maximum effect. He is the hero as arbitrageur, a warrior in the mode of Donald Rumsfeld’s “Revolution in Military Affairs.”

Paul’s transformation into a speculative superhero is both triumph and self-destruction, spurring consideration of the way neoliberal language infests our experiences and our activism: We “invest our time” and scrutinize the “impact of those investments.” How, in Dune’s light, can we reimagine our agency and our goals outside the language of human capital development Paul dramatizes?

Read with an ear for these issues, Dune can offer powerful images and cautionary tales for leftist organizing and struggle. It helps us better understand those who have succumbed to the tainted delights Dune offers and parallels — especially important in light of the ways Villeneuve’s adaptation smooths away the novel’s sardonic edges. At best, Dune might even give us some of the tools to free others from the narrative’s trap.
 
My own work has focused on how Dune’s fetishization of training and human potential anticipates neoliberalism’s transformation of human beings into human capital, to be managed and developed to maximize returns on investment.
Someone missed the entire point of Dune.
 
It is almost like they did not really read the books.
I'd say it's a 50/50 tossup. I've seen people who proclaim to love Dune, and have read it multiple times say that the Butlerian Jihad was 'too extreme' and 'a massive waste of good work' when they destroyed the AI; and killed the men that made them.

Some people just love the idea of the machine minded, and being part of that machine mind. Because they're faggots liberals.
 
The key for the Left, then, is to pay more attention to the questions the text raises, rather than the tainted answers it offers. For instance, as mentioned, Dune gives us an extended critique of the hero mystique. It asks how we reevaluate the role of iconic political figures in light of Paul’s “bad heroism,” and how we build on their vision and charisma while avoiding Stilgar’s fate; how, ultimately, we remain comrades in struggle, rather than idols and worshippers.
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This does not sound socialist under any circumstances.
 
All memeing aside. Dune is a reactionary masterpiece. There's not a single piece of it, from its formation, to it's plot, to it's individual characters that could be rightly construed as socialist.
 
I'd say it's a 50/50 tossup. I've seen people who proclaim to love Dune, and have read it multiple times say that the Butlerian Jihad was 'too extreme' and 'a massive waste of good work' when they destroyed the AI; and killed the men that made them.

Some people just love the idea of the machine minded, and being part of that machine mind. Because they're faggots liberals.

Eh actually considering how based AI end up being due to working only with statistics and raw numbers... I think I would prefer being part of the machine mind.

Least I would prefer it over the woke-mind.
 
Eh actually considering how based AI end up being due to working only with statistics and raw numbers... I think I would prefer being part of the machine mind.

Least I would prefer it over the woke-mind.
The machine mind isn't the AI. The machine mind is the mindset of the people that use the AI. The enemy in the Jihad wasn't just thinking machines, it was the subsumption of the human will to machine like thinking. Humans were reduced to just numbers to filed around. The spark that started the Jihad was a woman's child was euthanized because an AI registered a point percentile difference in a 'good' outcome if that was done. Humans were in control at all times, but the humans had essentially given up themselves to the suggestions of the AI.

The point of the Jihad was to undo the effects of humans offloading their thinking, feeling and learning onto machines. To undo the damage to the 'soul' that this had caused, and to turn humans from cattle, into vicious, brutal survivors. Asimov touched on that same idea in short story he did. The plot was that the president may have been an android. The president wasn't doing anything wrong, he wasn't evil, he was actually a very good president and was making literally everyone in the USA (and the world) happier, healthier and better off in almost all metrics. The question Asimov posed with the story was: Is it more important for humans to govern humans, or for humans to be governed by whatever does the most good for humans.

Undeniably, it's not 'good' that that the Bene Twleilaxu (spelling?) turned their women into braindead flesh pods that produce children, but is that worse than the hospital AI choosing to abort children based off of a predictive algorithm? Is vicious hand to hand combat by knife wielding armies to settle disputes better than drone systems fighting each other? It's fundamentally a question of if you want to turn yourself over to the mercy of mechanistic forces or human forces. Liberalism, wokeism, communism and the 'machine mind' men of the Jihad chose mechanistic forces; reactionaries, the navigators, and the Orange Catholic Bible chooses human forces. Inevitably you have to submit yourself to something. (A key plot element of the golden path of Dune is a God submitting itself to destiny, even if doing so causes incalculable suffering).

EDIT: That's only for the Dune that Herbert himself wrote. His son did some shitty sequels/prequels. This was the authors mentions of thinking machines.

""The target of the Jihad was a machine-attitude as much as the machines," Leto said. "Humans had set those machines to usurp our sense of beauty, our necessary selfdom out of which we make living judgments. Naturally, the machines were destroyed."

And another mention of them being used against people.
"The seeking machines would be there, the smell of blood and entrails, the cowering humans in their burrows aware only that they could not escape . . . while all the time the mechanical movement approached, nearer and nearer and nearer ...louder...louder! Everywhere she searched, it would be the same. No escape anywhere".
The Golden Path was specifically followed to stop the above from occurring. But we don't know if the Seeking machines were hunting humans because of their own desire; or if it was humans still nominally in control of things.
 
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I think we can all agree to disregard anything Jacobin Mag shovels out as it's always dogshit. Not to mention, they really do miss the point of the books but... they're socialists. Reading and comprehending isn't their forte.
 
The machine mind isn't the AI. The machine mind is the mindset of the people that use the AI. The enemy in the Jihad wasn't just thinking machines, it was the subsumption of the human will to machine like thinking. Humans were reduced to just numbers to filed around. The spark that started the Jihad was a woman's child was euthanized because an AI registered a point percentile difference in a 'good' outcome if that was done. Humans were in control at all times, but the humans had essentially given up themselves to the suggestions of the AI.

The point of the Jihad was to undo the effects of humans offloading their thinking, feeling and learning onto machines. To undo the damage to the 'soul' that this had caused, and to turn humans from cattle, into vicious, brutal survivors. Asimov touched on that same idea in short story he did. The plot was that the president may have been an android. The president wasn't doing anything wrong, he wasn't evil, he was actually a very good president and was making literally everyone in the USA (and the world) happier, healthier and better off in almost all metrics. The question Asimov posed with the story was: Is it more important for humans to govern humans, or for humans to be governed by whatever does the most good for humans.

Undeniably, it's not 'good' that that the Bene Twleilaxu (spelling?) turned their women into braindead flesh pods that produce children, but is that worse than the hospital AI choosing to abort children based off of a predictive algorithm? Is vicious hand to hand combat by knife wielding armies to settle disputes better than drone systems fighting each other? It's fundamentally a question of if you want to turn yourself over to the mercy of mechanistic forces or human forces. Liberalism, wokeism, communism and the 'machine mind' men of the Jihad chose mechanistic forces; reactionaries, the navigators, and the Orange Catholic Bible chooses human forces. Inevitably you have to submit yourself to something. (A key plot element of the golden path of Dune is a God submitting itself to destiny, even if doing so causes incalculable suffering).
Because one should never miss the opportunity
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Lady Jessica is, for most practical purposes, the coprotagonist of the first half of the novel, but she and the rest of the mysterious and potent Bene Gesserit order are ultimately cast as Paul’s antagonists...
The Bene Gesserit aspire to be Emperor-by-Proxy through their puppet, the Kwisatz Haderach. Paul rightly regarded those who would enslave him as his antagonists. What's so hard to figure out about this?

...his co-option of their feminine-coded abilities for his own masculine purposes is central to his ascent to superheroism.
Calling skills and training 'feminine-coded' is a take so pants-shittingly retarded that only a communist (this is Jacobin after all) could dare to utter it. Again, the Bene Gesserit aspired to dominate the Universe, so how is it 'masculine' when Paul simply beat them to the punch by appearing too soon, frustrating their attempts to ensnare him, and dominating the Universe himself?
 
The machine mind isn't the AI. The machine mind is the mindset of the people that use the AI. The enemy in the Jihad wasn't just thinking machines, it was the subsumption of the human will to machine like thinking. Humans were reduced to just numbers to filed around. The spark that started the Jihad was a woman's child was euthanized because an AI registered a point percentile difference in a 'good' outcome if that was done. Humans were in control at all times, but the humans had essentially given up themselves to the suggestions of the AI.

The point of the Jihad was to undo the effects of humans offloading their thinking, feeling and learning onto machines. To undo the damage to the 'soul' that this had caused, and to turn humans from cattle, into vicious, brutal survivors. Asimov touched on that same idea in short story he did. The plot was that the president may have been an android. The president wasn't doing anything wrong, he wasn't evil, he was actually a very good president and was making literally everyone in the USA (and the world) happier, healthier and better off in almost all metrics. The question Asimov posed with the story was: Is it more important for humans to govern humans, or for humans to be governed by whatever does the most good for humans.

Undeniably, it's not 'good' that that the Bene Twleilaxu (spelling?) turned their women into braindead flesh pods that produce children, but is that worse than the hospital AI choosing to abort children based off of a predictive algorithm? Is vicious hand to hand combat by knife wielding armies to settle disputes better than drone systems fighting each other? It's fundamentally a question of if you want to turn yourself over to the mercy of mechanistic forces or human forces. Liberalism, wokeism, communism and the 'machine mind' men of the Jihad chose mechanistic forces; reactionaries, the navigators, and the Orange Catholic Bible chooses human forces. Inevitably you have to submit yourself to something. (A key plot element of the golden path of Dune is a God submitting itself to destiny, even if doing so causes incalculable suffering).

The system that does the most good is the one that does the most good.

If machines produced better outcomes for more people than human rulers... Well then they are the ones that do the most good.

If intellgient machines are better than humans in every way... then let the machines replace us.
 
The system that does the most good is the one that does the most good.

If machines produced better outcomes for more people than human rulers... Well then they are the ones that do the most good.
Then you choose liberalism. The expulsion of the humans from human decision making. We may as well all become the coffee coloured mud race, eating soy burgers and living in pods, because it means the hordes of Africa are lifted out of their suffering.

It is more important for men to be making decisions - even if they are wrong - than for the right decisions to be made by inhuman things for men.
 
Then you choose liberalism. The expulsion of the humans from human decision making. We may as well all become the coffee coloured mud race, eating soy burgers and living in pods, because it means the hordes of Africa are lifted out of their suffering.

It is more important for men to be making decisions - even if they are wrong - than for the right decisions to be made by inhuman things for men.
It's interesting, Iain Banks Culture novels are almost this exact thing. If you're not familiar, think Star Trek's Federation on steroids, post-scarcity, machines run almost everything in the Culture, they don't even have words for the concepts of personal ownership. In Look to Windward, an outsider talks with a Mind, one of the super-AIs, about how people living in the Culture have no real purpose or aim in life, do increasingly self-destructive things knowing they can just have a copy of themselves shoved into a new body, and eventually off themselves after four centuries or so. It sounds like the kind of endless Beige colored life the Collectivists dream of.
 
Then you choose liberalism. The expulsion of the humans from human decision making. We may as well all become the coffee coloured mud race, eating soy burgers and living in pods, because it means the hordes of Africa are lifted out of their suffering.

It is more important for men to be making decisions - even if they are wrong - than for the right decisions to be made by inhuman things for men.

Incorrect, I'm very evil, I'm selfish and will choose whatever benefits me and oppose anything that might threaten me or make my life harder.

But you can't claim to call yourself a good person if you don't choose that which is good.

Therefore you can't judge anyone else either.
 
It's interesting, Iain Banks Culture novels are almost this exact thing. If you're not familiar, think Star Trek's Federation on steroids, post-scarcity, machines run almost everything in the Culture, they don't even have words for the concepts of personal ownership. In Look to Windward, an outsider talks with a Mind, one of the super-AIs, about how people living in the Culture have no real purpose or aim in life, do increasingly self-destructive things knowing they can just have a copy of themselves shoved into a new body, and eventually off themselves after four centuries or so. It sounds like the kind of endless Beige colored life the Collectivists dream of.
Yeah, I've read some of the Culture stuff. It's an interesting setting to be sure. From what I've read it does seem to be the ultimate form of 'liberal Utopia' with the exception of things like Sublimation offering a path to something 'more', which wouldn't exist in a truly Liberalist world. I'd say the Minds are basically gods, but they don't really serve the same function as 'gods' have for humans historically. They're there to universally condone and allow human excesses, rather than temper/direct them. They're sort of like anti-gods in a way.

From a purely 'rational' view of history, gods can be seen as evolutionary advantageous constructs. (If they are real or not isn't relevant to their function in human society); they turn biological drives into divine drives. Multiply and be fruitful, love your brother, spread across the land are just dressed up versions of 'Reproduce, protect your tribe, take your neighbors women'. Minds do the opposite, they create an entirely conflict free, and sterile 'utopia'. People don't struggle, have children, or even have to really think for themselves. They follow the most immediate desire for pleasure and entertainment. Eventually they'll all die off (unless the minds choose to breed them like caged hamsters to prevent that outcome) or enough of them will regain enough of their humanity to sublimate as a group. The Culture is probably the closest thing I can think of to Hell on Earth. I mean that without any hyperbole, I believe that conflict and suffering are absolutely required for humans.

To link it back to Dune, it's why the God Emperor serves the function of an actual god. His cruelty is incalculable, the horror and suffering he inflicts on humanity literally changes them forever. But as a result they spread out so far and wide, to every corner of the entire universe, and in such great numbers that even if history is cyclical (which many reactionaries, myself included, see it as) and the thinking machines are remade, that humanity can never be destroyed. It's the platonic ideal of 'be fruitful and multiply'.

Incorrect, I'm very evil, I'm selfish and will choose what only benefits me and oppose anything that might threaten me or make my life harder.

But you can't claim to call yourself a good person if you don't choose that which is good.

Therefore you can't judge anyone else either.
Good is what benefits my people, my peoples soul and my future people. Every single other peoples of the Earth should be ground underfoot and destroyed at worst, or actively ignored at best. Good is more than a spreadsheet document measuring calories. To quote some cringe: 'Not mere flesh and blood are we, luminous beings we are.' Putting aside any discussion of the metaphysical concept of the soul, humans need more than just subsistence. They need purpose, they need goals, conflict, struggle and suffering. Otherwise we stop behaving like humans, and start behaving like cattle.

Humans are violent, tribalistic, vicious, xenophobic and hierarchical. This is good. Anything that tries to strip that away from us is bad. Part of being human is making decisions as a man; and living with those decisions. Kill a baby if you want, but do it yourself, for your own reasons. Don't offload your morals and decisions to a thinking machine. Because if you do that, you're not human.
 
I love reading articles like these because they reinforce my belief that I can't possibly be the stupidest person alive on Earth.
 
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