The Outer Worlds becomes Epic exclusive - Because of fucking course it did

[AP 297]

The issue isn't whether Steam is shit or not, it's whether Epic has anything worth uprooting the system for.

We all have Facebook, right? We use it to message grandma now and then. Now imagine if someone came around, going "This is like Facebook but better. Your data won't be sold and uh. That's it." How many do you think would change? You'd have to re-add every awkward classmate from 11 years ago or end up with an incomplete library of acquaintances. Nobody gives a shit about Facebook or social media of that caliber anymore, yet it has its uses.

Enter Epic. By proximity and ad campaigns alone, I've literally only heard of "we pay devs more" and a free game here and there; games I already own or that are $15 on Steam. I don't even know if it has a friends list. I don't know what it looks like. I've seen nothing of it outside "we pay devs more". Why the fuck should I as a consumer with +500 games on Steam and an inactive, yet complete list of my friends suddenly bother changing? A free game every 14 days that I won't get to keep? DotA? TF2? CSGO? Warframe?

It's just not a debate. There is nothing. Outside shilling for devs who already make their profits, there's nothing. The fact anyone even have the guts to bother defending Epic is honestly amazing. How anyone could care about a game launcher outside Steam and how integrated it is. It's honestly bordering on veganism in terms of good karma.

Let me make one thing clear. I am not defending Epic. I am indicting Steam. There is a severe difference. I won't use Epic until they prove themselves. I don't think anyone should.

People seem to have poor memories about how Steam was introduced to the market. I am opening up that wound for a reason. Steam was in a lot of ways too much like Epic is now. Steam is no saint. It gets rather grating seeing people talk about it in this way.

So far the only real concern besides protecting the review bomb, which I argue can/will be used by people you eventually won't like, is the one you brought up about friends lists and social features. Personally, I use discord. It could be me, but I don't use facebook. I have a fake facebook only for tracking people of interest. I clearly don't understand the value of putting too much of yourself out there with these types of apps. To me it is a bad idea. For most of my friends, it is the same thing. I would argue this is a more emotional response. You fear your social network going away instead of just seeing Steam as a marketplace. It seems to me a lot of people are upset that Steam is their favorite run-down shopping mall that is now dying, because the anchors are all leaving one by one. Of course, people are going to defend it, especially when the competition is so unknown and bare bones.

I think right now people need to stop being angry at Epic. They are unproven and still have a long way to go. They will either sink or swim. There are a lot of options outside of them. I bought the Division 2 off Uplay. I will probably buy The Outer Worlds off the Microsoft Store. I can't think of a single title they have exclusives on that I can't find somewhere else. This is very different from the days that Steam rose to dominance. Steam made themselves the only option back then.

The problem is Valve and Steam. Valve hasn't released any new substantial games in a long time. They have been riding on Steam's success and haven't had to improve it or develop games anymore. Steam made themselves vulnerable by being complacent and not investing in their core products. Where is Half-Life 3 or Portal 3? Instead, they invest money in VR and are now laying off those staffers.

https://www.pcgamer.com/valve-laid-...s-and-a-portion-of-its-contracts-in-february/

Steam allowed bad products to populate its roster, Epic didn't do this. Epic didn't make them abandon Half Life or Portal. Epic didn't allow their review system to be abused to the point it is almost a meme, Steam did. Epic didn't neglect its relationships with its 3rd party developer/publishers, Steam did.

 

[vertexwindi]

In some ways I can understand the complaints about Steam but it's been like decades since its release and its launch problems aren't much relevant now. Of course they'd make dumb mistakes, it was the first game launcher of its type, what's Epic's excuse for not even including reviews?

 

[Secret Asshole]

I have said frequently that I won't use Epic's Launcher at this point. Still, I really find calling Steam "Consumer Friendly" to be a farce.

First Steam's introduction was not a nice simple, "Would you like to download our launcher and have access to our vast library of games?". No it was "You will download our 3rd party launcher in order to play the games you bought or you can pound sand." That wasn't consumer friendly and people complained at the time that it was destroying the market for resale on PC games. Steam was pretty much lobbed on to everyone with their own brand of exclusives and did a lot of the same things that Epic is doing now. Steam could do it because they were printing cash from Half Life and Portal. There was nothing "service" about this. It was pure force; you downloaded it and had it connected or you didn't play your game. At least now, there are other launchers and services to use if you don't want the Epic Launcher for your 3rd party game.

Second, I would argue a lack of quality control is not consumer friendly. Having to pour through countless examples of fake video games, asset flips, achievement boosters, or just pure garbage to find worthwhile Indie projects is more than a disappointment. For the longest time Steam didn't even have refunds until they were forced to. They have chosen not to curate their content and have let the whole thing be curated by unpaid fans. That is hardly consumer friendly. The only thing recently I can think of as shameless was Anthem Dev's asking people who paid full price for their game to "beta" it after release. Probably one of the most consumer friendly actions over the last 40 was allowing higher quality Japanese Cars to compete with inept lower quality American Vehicles. Quality is a key aspect of consumer value. Ignoring it is disregarding your customers.

Third, people love to cite reviews as a crucial piece of consumer support. We have seen review bombs happen and sink titles under a pile of worthless off topic opinion. Of course it is okay, because those off topic opinions are "for the cause" and in a lot of peoples minds they aren't worthless. Let me throw in another possibility. I have to constantly explain this to people in real life, but a review bombing is nothing but a tool/tactic and you may not like it when someone who has a different agenda than yours uses it. Chinese gamers back in 2017 review bombed a steam game because it didn't offer Chinese Language support.

Steam review bombing is working, and Chinese players are a powerful new voice

Flooding Steam reviews has become a popular form of protest, and now Chinese players are using reviews to demand localization.

www.pcgamer.com

Suppose China or another actor decided to bury a game like this as a tactic to pull it off the market? Is that consumer friendly?

Yes, companies have done a lot of despicable things in neglecting their own futures and consumer value under the false pretense of "Shareholder value". I would argue though that Steam isn't innocent and they are now facing the exact thing they started with. Steam has gotten complacent and I would argue neglected their customers. Epic has a lot to prove to me before I can trust them, but now increasingly so does Steam.



Since it is a Chinese Company, I have to ask:

Is there really such a thing as a truly public Chinese Company under a communist system that pretty much has everything under complete state control?

1. I don't give a shit about Steam's introduction. Its been over a decade and the platform has evolved since then. Steam dominated because it solved the piracy problem as well as regional pricing. No other services did this. That's why it got big. Also, when Steam was being developed it was shit, but there were dozens and dozens of digital stores with much worse service. As bad as Steam was, it was better than anything else at the time.

But again, this is irrelevant. Its ten years later. How Steam started does not matter. If you're going to open a store to compete, you need to have what Steam has done already. You can't just come onto the scene and force people to use a malware ridden, security nightmare, no feature platform and shrug your shoulders, "Well, that's how Steam started." 10 years ago.

Epic is pouring money into exclusives because it didn't bother developing its platform before launch at all and is strong-arming people into using an objectively inferior product.

2. This point is dumb. You have massive amounts of control over your queue. I have NEVER encountered any asset flip games on my front page, in my mentions or in my discovery. These games are fucking buried and you have to actively go looking for them. Same with anime titty games. If you're too lazy to put on a filter or two or do a single discovery queue to get your algorithim right, then I don't know what to tell you.

3. If you think review bombing is a problem, you're a fucking idiot. Its a fake problem made up by journalists because user reviews have been putting them out of jobs and costing them influence. And the point is moot, Steam dealt with the non-problem

The issue isn't whether Steam is shit or not, it's whether Epic has anything worth uprooting the system for.

We all have Facebook, right? We use it to message grandma now and then. Now imagine if someone came around, going "This is like Facebook but better. Your data won't be sold and uh. That's it." How many do you think would change? You'd have to re-add every awkward classmate from 11 years ago or end up with an incomplete library of acquaintances. Nobody gives a shit about Facebook or social media of that caliber anymore, yet it has its uses.

Enter Epic. By proximity and ad campaigns alone, I've literally only heard of "we pay devs more" and a free game here and there; games I already own or that are $15 on Steam. I don't even know if it has a friends list. I don't know what it looks like. I've seen nothing of it outside "we pay devs more". Why the fuck should I as a consumer with +500 games on Steam and an inactive, yet complete list of my friends suddenly bother changing? A free game every 14 days that I won't get to keep? DotA? TF2? CSGO? Warframe?

It's just not a debate. There is nothing. Outside shilling for devs who already make their profits, there's nothing. The fact anyone even have the guts to bother defending Epic is honestly amazing. How anyone could care about a game launcher outside Steam and how integrated it is. It's honestly bordering on veganism in terms of good karma.

Exactly. There is nothing Epic offers. Epic knows this and has been buying exclusives to force you to use it. I don't give a fuck about developer pay cuts. The free games are 90% crap nobody ever heard of with 10% good ones that most people have already.

Let me make one thing clear. I am not defending Epic. I am indicting Steam. There is a severe difference. I won't use Epic until they prove themselves. I don't think anyone should.

People seem to have poor memories about how Steam was introduced to the market. I am opening up that wound for a reason. Steam was in a lot of ways too much like Epic is now. Steam is no saint. It gets rather grating seeing people talk about it in this way.

So far the only real concern besides protecting the review bomb, which I argue can/will be used by people you eventually won't like, is the one you brought up about friends lists and social features. Personally, I use discord. It could be me, but I don't use facebook. I have a fake facebook only for tracking people of interest. I clearly don't understand the value of putting too much of yourself out there with these types of apps. To me it is a bad idea. For most of my friends, it is the same thing. I would argue this is a more emotional response. You fear your social network going away instead of just seeing Steam as a marketplace. It seems to me a lot of people are upset that Steam is their favorite run-down shopping mall that is now dying, because the anchors are all leaving one by one. Of course, people are going to defend it, especially when the competition is so unknown and bare bones.

I think right now people need to stop being angry at Epic. They are unproven and still have a long way to go. They will either sink or swim. There are a lot of options outside of them. I bought the Division 2 off Uplay. I will probably buy The Outer Worlds off the Microsoft Store. I can't think of a single title they have exclusives on that I can't find somewhere else. This is very different from the days that Steam rose to dominance. Steam made themselves the only option back then.

The problem is Valve and Steam. Valve hasn't released any new substantial games in a long time. They have been riding on Steam's success and haven't had to improve it or develop games anymore. Steam made themselves vulnerable by being complacent and not investing in their core products. Where is Half-Life 3 or Portal 3? Instead, they invest money in VR and are now laying off those staffers.

https://www.pcgamer.com/valve-laid-...s-and-a-portion-of-its-contracts-in-february/

Steam allowed bad products to populate its roster, Epic didn't do this. Epic didn't make them abandon Half Life or Portal. Epic didn't allow their review system to be abused to the point it is almost a meme, Steam did. Epic didn't neglect its relationships with its 3rd party developer/publishers, Steam did.

Steam's past is fucking irrelevant. Its over a fucking decade. You cannot enter a market this advanced with a nothingburger of a fucking store and then go, "Well, Steam started out like this." Steam was around when fucking smartphones didn't exist. How is this in any way relevant? Oh, its not. Here's the comparison you're making. Its like Epic is a monochrome flip phone and you're saying in 2019 "WELL ALL PHONES STARTED OUT LIKE THAT". Its a bullshit argument. Tech, the market, the community and the scene are completely different.

I honestly do not give a shit Valve stopped making games. Do not care. They're laying off VR employees because it wasn't profitable. Review bombing and curation are false problems. Review bombing was pushed by the gaming media because they suck shit. Curation was being held up by like 5 YouTubers who had to go looking for shit games and hold them up as examples. The only problem with curation is that there are so many good indie games its hard for them to get noticed. And that's not because there's crap in the way, there's just a lot of fucking good games. You also have game journos saying problems with 'curation' are vaguely directed at games with themes they don't like. You also have indies complaining they don't get noticed because other games are shit.

The way Epic competes with Steam is the way Playstation competes with Xbox. Instead of throwing entire development budgets to get third party exclusives, use that money to develop first party exclusives. That's what Steam doesn't have anymore. But Epic isn't doing that. Its forcing people to use its broken-ass, malware infested, no feature shithole of a storefront. Its doing this in hopes of it getting better 'later'. It might and Steam might not do shit. Its possible. But grabbing exclusives and pulling people by the hair to use their platform is not the way to do things.

 

[SJ 485]

If you're too lazy to put on a filter or two or do a single discovery queue to get your algorithim right, then I don't know what to tell you.

Everyone consistently seems to say this about the dumb anime titty shit but shits on epic's choice to perform curation because "wow you need someone to decide what's good or not for you? They're going to filter out shit you want to play."
I find it funny that people trust a dumb algorithm based off user tagging more than a human QA team to do the same job.

strong-arming people into using an objectively inferior product

ＴＨＥ　ＧＡＭＥＳ　ＡＲＥ　ＴＨＥ　ＰＲＯＤＵＣＴ．

 

[AP 297]

1. I don't give a shit about Steam's introduction. Its been over a decade and the platform has evolved since then. Steam dominated because it solved the piracy problem as well as regional pricing. No other services did this. That's why it got big. Also, when Steam was being developed it was shit, but there were dozens and dozens of digital stores with much worse service. As bad as Steam was, it was better than anything else at the time.

But again, this is irrelevant. Its ten years later. How Steam started does not matter. If you're going to open a store to compete, you need to have what Steam has done already. You can't just come onto the scene and force people to use a malware ridden, security nightmare, no feature platform and shrug your shoulders, "Well, that's how Steam started." 10 years ago.

Epic is pouring money into exclusives because it didn't bother developing its platform before launch at all and is strong-arming people into using an objectively inferior product.

2. This point is dumb. You have massive amounts of control over your queue. I have NEVER encountered any asset flip games on my front page, in my mentions or in my discovery. These games are fucking buried and you have to actively go looking for them. Same with anime titty games. If you're too lazy to put on a filter or two or do a single discovery queue to get your algorithim right, then I don't know what to tell you.

3. If you think review bombing is a problem, you're a fucking idiot. Its a fake problem made up by journalists because user reviews have been putting them out of jobs and costing them influence. And the point is moot, Steam dealt with the non-problem



Exactly. There is nothing Epic offers. Epic knows this and has been buying exclusives to force you to use it. I don't give a fuck about developer pay cuts. The free games are 90% crap nobody ever heard of with 10% good ones that most people have already.



Steam's past is fucking irrelevant. Its over a fucking decade. You cannot enter a market this advanced with a nothingburger of a fucking store and then go, "Well, Steam started out like this." Steam was around when fucking smartphones didn't exist. How is this in any way relevant? Oh, its not. Here's the comparison you're making. Its like Epic is a monochrome flip phone and you're saying in 2019 "WELL ALL PHONES STARTED OUT LIKE THAT". Its a bullshit argument. Tech, the market, the community and the scene are completely different.

I honestly do not give a shit Valve stopped making games. Do not care. They're laying off VR employees because it wasn't profitable. Review bombing and curation are false problems. Review bombing was pushed by the gaming media because they suck shit. Curation was being held up by like 5 YouTubers who had to go looking for shit games and hold them up as examples. The only problem with curation is that there are so many good indie games its hard for them to get noticed. And that's not because there's crap in the way, there's just a lot of fucking good games. You also have game journos saying problems with 'curation' are vaguely directed at games with themes they don't like. You also have indies complaining they don't get noticed because other games are shit.

The way Epic competes with Steam is the way Playstation competes with Xbox. Instead of throwing entire development budgets to get third party exclusives, use that money to develop first party exclusives. That's what Steam doesn't have anymore. But Epic isn't doing that. Its forcing people to use its broken-ass, malware infested, no feature shithole of a storefront. Its doing this in hopes of it getting better 'later'. It might and Steam might not do shit. Its possible. But grabbing exclusives and pulling people by the hair to use their platform is not the way to do things.

Your attempt to say "Steam's past is irrelevant" is a part of my problem with this debate. You are disregarding context. You can't argue against it or defend Steam in this area because you painfully know that I am right. This event has both happened before and will likely happen again when a Storefront or company like Valve gets complacent like this.

My point about the past also makes a valid point that you are also avoiding. You have other options besides Steam to get the games you want without piracy. You praise Steam for ending Piracy, but you neglect getting into the ugly details of how they eliminated Piracy. You can't argue with my point there again, so you avoid it by saying it is "in the past".

Review bombing is a problem to me at least. I now have to frequently look at the review scores for games I am interested in to make sure there isn't some dumb Reddit Review Campaign going on that I sadly have no idea of nor really care about. It is annoying to say the least. It is one of the many annoyances that have popped up lately that shows Valves signs of neglect towards this platform. Curation and bad video games getting into their store is also a sign of this. I can be objective enough to admit it, can you?

Epic is an option I personally won't opt for, but thankfully in this wonderful change of fate; I don't have to to buy my favorite games. That is the truth about it. Despite all the anger, Gamers have options now they didn't have 10 years ago, and Epic can't pull a Steam on us. That I would say is a good thing.

 

[moocow]

I can be objective enough to admit it, can you?

lol ... you're not being even remotely objective. You're stirring the pot and baiting by being contrarian and saying "lol everyone sucks so it's okay that Epic sucks too."

 

[SJ 485]

You're stirring the pot and baiting by being contrarian

How to shut down conversation in one easy step.
"Nobody who disagrees with me could possibly be arguing in good faith!!"

 

[Anonymous For This]

I prefer Steam. They have good sales, it doesn't kill my memory running in the background, and the shift+tab in-game UI generally works very well. The Uplay and Origin launchers can eat dicks, though. Not because I don't like having more than one launcher, but because their systems are just shit.

So long as the Epic launcher and store isn't shit, I don't care.

 

[moocow]

How to shut down conversation in one easy step.
"Nobody who disagrees with me could possibly be arguing in good faith!!"

Well, show me a good faith argument and I'll try to take it seriously. What I've seen in this autistic slapfight, er, sorry, "conversation" so far has just been shit-stirring by people obviously being paid to shill for Epic.

 

[Desire Lines]

Well, show me a good faith argument and I'll try to take it seriously. What I've seen in this autistic slapfight, er, sorry, "conversation" so far has just been shit-stirring by people obviously being paid to shill for Epic.

What's with all the "shill" accusations lately? Do you actually believe anybody would want to pay to shill their product on a "Games" Kiwi Farms subforum, or are you just insulting the person who is arguing with you? Either way it's not doing your argument any favours, I don't think anybody has been called a "Steam shill" for saying Steam is good in this thread.

 

[moocow]

What's with all the "shill" accusations lately? Do you actually believe anybody would want to pay to shill their product on a "Games" Kiwi Farms subforum, or are you just insulting the person who is arguing with you? Either way it's not doing your argument any favours, I don't think anybody has been called a "Steam shill" for saying Steam is good in this thread.

The shill cries out as he strikes you...

More seriously, yes. Epic is bribing developers to give them exclusives. Why wouldn't they pay for astroturfing? They certainly wouldn't be the first. As for choosing where to shill, they tend not to care so long as the talking points get out there. There's plenty of it on 4chan, too, and all the major game companies like to pretend to think 4chan is radioactive and to be avoided at all costs.

Many of the arguments seen here in favor of Epic share a few things in common that point to it being shilling:

• most of the "pro-Epic" talking points are thinly disguised swipes at Steam, Epic's major competitor (who Epic have openly named as their primary target with this push);
• Epic store's major shortcomings are hand-waved away, usually by claiming that some ten years ago Steam wasn't any better or that "that feature sucks anyway" (see "user reviews");
• Epic's shady behavior in scraping Steam user data and installed apps, scanning registry entries, etc. also get hand-waved away, both with reassurances that "they're fixing it" (how did it get there in the first place? There's no "be evil" checkbox in my copy of Visual Studio 2019) and with comparisons to others ("well they're doing it too, so that makes it okay here!");
• Epic's Tencent ownership and Chinese ties are similarly dismissed;
• these totally "organic" Epic fans all seem to have the same quirky urge to shame detractors for caring about these things, mocking them for being concerned about anti-consumer and anti-competitive practices, insisting they're not being objective, for "not getting with the times," for supporting a dying company/platform (i.e. Valve/Steam), etc.;
• they never budge an inch -- Epic shills are never persuaded by any argument and try their damnedest to "stay on message," as if they've been coached.

"What's with all the 'shill' accusations lately?" You're fucking shilling. Paid or not, you've got a bug up your asses about Steam, you've decided Epic is your savior, and by god you won't be satisfied until everyone on [insert target forum here] bends the knee.

"Argue in good faith" all you want. It's still "no sale" for me.

 

[vertexwindi]

I find it bizarre that out of all the controversial topics you could think of (gun control, abortion etc) the Epic Launcher is what truly gets Kiwis worked up. Man.

 

[Secret Asshole]

Everyone consistently seems to say this about the dumb anime titty shit but shits on epic's choice to perform curation because "wow you need someone to decide what's good or not for you? They're going to filter out shit you want to play."
I find it funny that people trust a dumb algorithm based off user tagging more than a human QA team to do the same job.


ＴＨＥ　ＧＡＭＥＳ　ＡＲＥ　ＴＨＥ　ＰＲＯＤＵＣＴ．

I don't want some blue hair cunt doing it. I'd rather a re.tarded algorithm.

OH GOD I ACCIDENTALLY SAID PRODUCT IN PLACE OF SERVICE. THIS IS SUCH A GRAVE CRIME. Of all the fucking things to nitpick, christ on a fucking cross.

Your attempt to say "Steam's past is irrelevant" is a part of my problem with this debate. You are disregarding context. You can't argue against it or defend Steam in this area because you painfully know that I am right. This event has both happened before and will likely happen again when a Storefront or company like Valve gets complacent like this.

My point about the past also makes a valid point that you are also avoiding. You have other options besides Steam to get the games you want without piracy. You praise Steam for ending Piracy, but you neglect getting into the ugly details of how they eliminated Piracy. You can't argue with my point there again, so you avoid it by saying it is "in the past".

Review bombing is a problem to me at least. I now have to frequently look at the review scores for games I am interested in to make sure there isn't some dumb Reddit Review Campaign going on that I sadly have no idea of nor really care about. It is annoying to say the least. It is one of the many annoyances that have popped up lately that shows Valves signs of neglect towards this platform. Curation and bad video games getting into their store is also a sign of this. I can be objective enough to admit it, can you?

Epic is an option I personally won't opt for, but thankfully in this wonderful change of fate; I don't have to to buy my favorite games. That is the truth about it. Despite all the anger, Gamers have options now they didn't have 10 years ago, and Epic can't pull a Steam on us. That I would say is a good thing.

My point is Epic's store is garbage and you can't use "Well, Steam started like this." Like it or not, Steam is the industry standard. And if you are opening a competing store, you best have at least half the features of the standard. Which they, uh, don't. Just because something is new isn't an excuse as to why it isn't meeting the basic standard. And to avoid meeting the basic standard to make up for their obvious inadequacies, they're buying third-party games to force you to use an inferior service.

I honestly don't care how dirty it was. I remember the age of CD keys. Managing multiple games with CD Keys was a nightmare. And in those days, you had CD Keys for games with like 5 expansion packs. So even if you had like 2 games, but they had multiple expansion packs, you'd have to manage maybe 10 keys. Fuck that. Steam was garbage back then, but so was everything else. All you had to be was 'less garbage' and that's what Steam was. People wanted a centralized hub. Steam was what people wanted. They might not have liked it, but restrictive DRM existed in those days as well, which made pirating the way to go. Especially if you didn't want it to brick your machine.

Review bombing is moot now that Steam changed it.

I really just don't care about curation. I honestly don't. Valve's responsibility should be that the game works, the exec runs, there's no trojans or viruses. If it says complete, it should be complete. Valve can do better in this area, sure. But I just went through my queue and looked through my recommended titles and I didn't see shovel-ware. The biggest problem Valve faces isn't crap games, its making so finding things is better. I'm sure there's a ton of good games I just don't see because they're buried under tons of other ones. Would I cry if Valve banned all the asset flip crap from the store? No. Do I ever see it? No. Does anyone ever buy it? As far as I can tell, the only people who buy them are YouTubers who review it and complain about it.

I'm not saying Steam is perfect. It needs more human interaction. It needs to be more indie friendly. It needs better game organization. It needs at least one guy checking to see which games are released daily and which are total shit. It needs to not delete my fucking library categories. It definitely should remove clear asset flips, rip-offs and scams by children. It should have a 'mature' area that separates off purely adult titles to stop bringing controversy to itself. What I don't want is a platform censored.

What I am saying is Epic's model is fucking awful. Its a malware ridden store full of AIDs and the way they are handling exclusives are pretty much the worst I've ever seen and I've seen some shit. Epic can compete with exclusives, by making them. I'm sure with what they've shelled out in year long exclusive deals (2.5 million for one indie Kickstarted game, so you can imagine how much they shelled out for others), they could have built one or two AAA exclusives. Find a franchise fans have been drooling over, buy it, make it and you'll have people swarming over you. Valve no longer does that. That's how you compete, you offer something a competitor doesn't: Awesome first party titles. People would be sucking Epic's dick if they did that. However, they chose to brute force it and already pissed everyone off. The hilarious articles they had to write to try and justify how the games sold well just make me laugh. Anyone who seriously thinks that Exodus selling 2.5x Metro: Last Light means something is a fucking idiot. Or that the Division 2 selling more on the Ubi store was somehow a win.

Their methods are shady, their store is shady, the chinks are up in their asshole and Tim Sweeny is an arrogant cunt.

 

[SJ 485]

I don't want some blue hair cunt doing it.

One minute it's some rice farmer from guangdong who only cares about your data and the next it's dangerhairs censoring the storefront, whatever floats your boat I guess. All of this is bullshit.

Well, show me a good faith argument

see above posts, I tried, seems I can't get through, I get called a shill and a big stinky poopoohead when I make a serious case for giving the epic store half a chance.

 

[moocow]

I tried, seems I can't get through, I get called a shill and a big stinky poopoohead

I'll play the world's smallest violin for you. I hope you can find the strength to carry on despite this egregious hardship.

Poopoohead.

 

[Desire Lines]

The shill cries out as he strikes you...

More seriously, yes. Epic is bribing developers to give them exclusives. Why wouldn't they pay for astroturfing? They certainly wouldn't be the first. As for choosing where to shill, they tend not to care so long as the talking points get out there. There's plenty of it on 4chan, too, and all the major game companies like to pretend to think 4chan is radioactive and to be avoided at all costs.

Many of the arguments seen here in favor of Epic share a few things in common that point to it being shilling:

• most of the "pro-Epic" talking points are thinly disguised swipes at Steam, Epic's major competitor (who Epic have openly named as their primary target with this push);
• Epic store's major shortcomings are hand-waved away, usually by claiming that some ten years ago Steam wasn't any better or that "that feature sucks anyway" (see "user reviews");
• Epic's shady behavior in scraping Steam user data and installed apps, scanning registry entries, etc. also get hand-waved away, both with reassurances that "they're fixing it" (how did it get there in the first place? There's no "be evil" checkbox in my copy of Visual Studio 2019) and with comparisons to others ("well they're doing it too, so that makes it okay here!");
• Epic's Tencent ownership and Chinese ties are similarly dismissed;
• these totally "organic" Epic fans all seem to have the same quirky urge to shame detractors for caring about these things, mocking them for being concerned about anti-consumer and anti-competitive practices, insisting they're not being objective, for "not getting with the times," for supporting a dying company/platform (i.e. Valve/Steam), etc.;
• they never budge an inch -- Epic shills are never persuaded by any argument and try their damnedest to "stay on message," as if they've been coached.

"What's with all the 'shill' accusations lately?" You're fucking shilling. Paid or not, you've got a bug up your asses about Steam, you've decided Epic is your savior, and by god you won't be satisfied until everyone on [insert target forum here] bends the knee.

"Argue in good faith" all you want. It's still "no sale" for me.

My god man, what's up with you? i am not dissatisfied with people not trying Epic, or disliking it, i just think people are hypocritical for using some reasons to shit on Epic despite using Steam. I have no issues with people who pirate software saying Epic is shit in this thread.

 

[AP 297]

The shill cries out as he strikes you...

More seriously, yes. Epic is bribing developers to give them exclusives. Why wouldn't they pay for astroturfing? They certainly wouldn't be the first. As for choosing where to shill, they tend not to care so long as the talking points get out there. There's plenty of it on 4chan, too, and all the major game companies like to pretend to think 4chan is radioactive and to be avoided at all costs.

Many of the arguments seen here in favor of Epic share a few things in common that point to it being shilling:

• most of the "pro-Epic" talking points are thinly disguised swipes at Steam, Epic's major competitor (who Epic have openly named as their primary target with this push);
• Epic store's major shortcomings are hand-waved away, usually by claiming that some ten years ago Steam wasn't any better or that "that feature sucks anyway" (see "user reviews");
• Epic's shady behavior in scraping Steam user data and installed apps, scanning registry entries, etc. also get hand-waved away, both with reassurances that "they're fixing it" (how did it get there in the first place? There's no "be evil" checkbox in my copy of Visual Studio 2019) and with comparisons to others ("well they're doing it too, so that makes it okay here!");
• Epic's Tencent ownership and Chinese ties are similarly dismissed;
• these totally "organic" Epic fans all seem to have the same quirky urge to shame detractors for caring about these things, mocking them for being concerned about anti-consumer and anti-competitive practices, insisting they're not being objective, for "not getting with the times," for supporting a dying company/platform (i.e. Valve/Steam), etc.;
• they never budge an inch -- Epic shills are never persuaded by any argument and try their damnedest to "stay on message," as if they've been coached.

"What's with all the 'shill' accusations lately?" You're fucking shilling. Paid or not, you've got a bug up your asses about Steam, you've decided Epic is your savior, and by god you won't be satisfied until everyone on [insert target forum here] bends the knee.

"Argue in good faith" all you want. It's still "no sale" for me.

The idea that I am a shill for Epic. OMG that is so funny.

I made it clear that I am attacking Steam. I made it clear in my second to last post in the first line. I am indicting Steam. Their store is showing all the signs of a dead mall, but in electronic form and you are responding by calling me a shill. I made it clear that I would not recommend you to use their(Epic's) launcher.

[sarc]Yeah, I set up an account all the way back in 2015 to be Epic's voice when they finally might climb to take over the world.[/sarc]

I don't want some blue hair cunt doing it. I'd rather a re.tarded algorithm.

OH GOD I ACCIDENTALLY SAID PRODUCT IN PLACE OF SERVICE. THIS IS SUCH A GRAVE CRIME. Of all the fucking things to nitpick, christ on a fucking cross.



My point is Epic's store is garbage and you can't use "Well, Steam started like this." Like it or not, Steam is the industry standard. And if you are opening a competing store, you best have at least half the features of the standard. Which they, uh, don't. Just because something is new isn't an excuse as to why it isn't meeting the basic standard. And to avoid meeting the basic standard to make up for their obvious inadequacies, they're buying third-party games to force you to use an inferior service.

I honestly don't care how dirty it was. I remember the age of CD keys. Managing multiple games with CD Keys was a nightmare. And in those days, you had CD Keys for games with like 5 expansion packs. So even if you had like 2 games, but they had multiple expansion packs, you'd have to manage maybe 10 keys. Fuck that. Steam was garbage back then, but so was everything else. All you had to be was 'less garbage' and that's what Steam was. People wanted a centralized hub. Steam was what people wanted. They might not have liked it, but restrictive DRM existed in those days as well, which made pirating the way to go. Especially if you didn't want it to brick your machine.

Review bombing is moot now that Steam changed it.

I really just don't care about curation. I honestly don't. Valve's responsibility should be that the game works, the exec runs, there's no trojans or viruses. If it says complete, it should be complete. Valve can do better in this area, sure. But I just went through my queue and looked through my recommended titles and I didn't see shovel-ware. The biggest problem Valve faces isn't crap games, its making so finding things is better. I'm sure there's a ton of good games I just don't see because they're buried under tons of other ones. Would I cry if Valve banned all the asset flip crap from the store? No. Do I ever see it? No. Does anyone ever buy it? As far as I can tell, the only people who buy them are YouTubers who review it and complain about it.

I'm not saying Steam is perfect. It needs more human interaction. It needs to be more indie friendly. It needs better game organization. It needs at least one guy checking to see which games are released daily and which are total shit. It needs to not delete my fucking library categories. It definitely should remove clear asset flips, rip-offs and scams by children. It should have a 'mature' area that separates off purely adult titles to stop bringing controversy to itself. What I don't want is a platform censored.

What I am saying is Epic's model is fucking awful. Its a malware ridden store full of AIDs and the way they are handling exclusives are pretty much the worst I've ever seen and I've seen some shit. Epic can compete with exclusives, by making them. I'm sure with what they've shelled out in year long exclusive deals (2.5 million for one indie Kickstarted game, so you can imagine how much they shelled out for others), they could have built one or two AAA exclusives. Find a franchise fans have been drooling over, buy it, make it and you'll have people swarming over you. Valve no longer does that. That's how you compete, you offer something a competitor doesn't: Awesome first party titles. People would be sucking Epic's dick if they did that. However, they chose to brute force it and already pissed everyone off. The hilarious articles they had to write to try and justify how the games sold well just make me laugh. Anyone who seriously thinks that Exodus selling 2.5x Metro: Last Light means something is a fucking idiot. Or that the Division 2 selling more on the Ubi store was somehow a win.

Their methods are shady, their store is shady, the chinks are up in their asshole and Tim Sweeny is an arrogant cunt.

Steam has suggested they are making changes. All of it is because they finally have competition. Steam has made a lot of changes not because of the goodness of their heart, but because they had to.

If Steam were a shopping mall, they would be the crappy one that is losing its anchors, has the strange clothing shop that sells fake coach bags, also has a really cheap sex shop that actually scares most rational people, and the uncleaned up graffiti to protest a store's non-commitment to paying a living wage. I know it is a lot of people's favorite spot, but the place hasn't been maintained, and it is showing signs of decay.

The site needs more human interaction. They need to start actually investing in their core business, i.e. being a developer and a storefront. Steam has been slowly dying and no one noticed. Now someone, Epic, is accelerating the process. The flaws are now coming out into the open.

As consumers, we should probably prepare for what comes next. My suggestion is find new avenues to purchase games outside of Steam, if they can't fix themselves. I know that change can be painful, but this is the moment you need to realize that Steam has to fix themselves or face extinction. We as consumers should probably accept having to purchase games electronically from publishers and demand another option besides Epic whenever they opt to abandon Steam. Probably forming groups around Discord or other types of sites might be a good idea. Having your social network tied to a commercial location is probably a bad idea.

 

[SiccDicc]

ＴＨＥ　ＧＡＭＥＳ　ＡＲＥ　ＴＨＥ　ＰＲＯＤＵＣＴ．

No they're not, they're more like a timeshare that you own a license to and can be revoked at any given time.

Unless you team up with the cartels and break in to live there; IE piracy. But we would never condone that... no... never.

 

[Slap47]

In some ways I can understand the complaints about Steam but it's been like decades since its release and its launch problems aren't much relevant now. Of course they'd make dumb mistakes, it was the first game launcher of its type, what's Epic's excuse for not even including reviews?

It's a platform that caters to devs so I doubt we'll ever see reviews.

 

[Shadfan666xxx000]

My god man, what's up with you? i am not dissatisfied with people not trying Epic, or disliking it, i just think people are hypocritical for using some reasons to shit on Epic despite using Steam. I have no issues with people who pirate software saying Epic is shit in this thread.

You'd rather we steal in pirate bay than use steam and we're supposed to just believe you're not a shill? How obvious can you fuckers be?