The Mary Sue

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Frank D'arbo said:
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lol that's a lot of writting to try and justify "The showrunners are really lazy and liked 1920's American aesthetic." The cities a boring shithole and was ultimatly reliant on lazy whiggish models of history being crudely grafted onto a asian high fantasy setting because the creators lacked imagination and the article author has put more thought into it than Bryan and mike ever did.


Inquisitor_BadAss said:
The one thing I never understood about Legend of Kora is why republic city was made instead of just handed back the land to the earth kingdom. The fire nation hadn’t been there that long in actuality but I only watched the first series so I’ve probably missed something.
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The fire nation had earth kingdom colonies for decades by the conclusion of the war, the comics had to do a hasty retcon were the fire nations imperialistic tendancies could be downplayed enough that cross cultural pollination occured rather than the previous very obvious aperteid/nazi style of colonialism/cutural genocide.

Like everything following the end of last airbender-the writting is dogshit.
 
Emperor Julian said:
lol that's a lot of writting to try and justify "The showrunners are really lazy and liked 1920's American aesthetic." The cities a boring shithole and was ultimatly reliant on lazy whiggish models of history being crudely grafted onto a asian high fantasy setting because the creators lacked imagination and the article author has put more thought into it than Bryan and mike ever did.





The fire nation had earth kingdom colonies for decades by the conclusion of the war, the comics had to do a hasty retcon were the fire nations imperialistic tendancies could be downplayed enough that cross cultural pollination occured rather than the previous very obvious aperteid/nazi style of colonialism/cutural genocide.

Like everything following the end of last airbender-the writting is dogshit.
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The lesbian ending only happened because the creators knew it was going to be quickly forgotten otherwise.
 
Emperor Julian said:
Plus it barely happened at all, I had to confirm with outside soarces. Their's overall more evidence I'm dating my cat in terms of affection than the show presented.
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I just thought it was weird the two of them went to the Spirit Realm, where Zaheer is just kinda... hangin' out since his imprisonment. Imagine running into him when you're on a date with yo girl and the guy who killed a queen by sucking the air out of her lungs is just there.
 
WatchingAllOfYou said:
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:story: where to begin with this, l m f a o.
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Here - allow me:

Luke has like 10 minutes of training then blows up a death star from the cockpit of a ship he’s never flown before, let alone in space, without the use of targeting, but Rey’s abilities are an issue.

Whale Simone conveniently forgot that Luke had piloting and shooting training on Tatooine, as he mentioned in A New Hope. Plus his final shot was helped by his use of the Force. But sure, it's totally OK for Rey to know how to run a giant ship that's designed to be piloted by two people.

George Lucas created Luke S. in his own image.

LOL. The Mary Sue sucks on the clits of every female self insert, yet can't see the difference between a dumb pun on his own name and an actual self-insert. Luke in no way resembles Lucas physically and Lucas is so notoriously guarded and media shy, that there is not much there to compare Luke to anyway. Like resembles pretty much every plucky, young boy hero since the beginning of story telling.

succeeds magically because he is the chosen one even though his sister is a hundred times more competent

LOLOL. Luke trained hard under Obi-Wan and Yoda. He didn't magically know how to Force control people into doing his bidding like Rey, who could suddenly use the Force to get guards to release her. Nor did Luke magically survive in open space, unlike Leia, who never utilized the Force before.

And Leia was competent, but 100 times more than Luke? LOLOLOL. Luke blew up the Death Star twice, defeated his father, and led to Palpatine's downfall. All Rey had to deal with was a weird looking emo fag and his band of SS cosplayers.

Luke worked to earn his skills. Rey just had them because it fit the plot. So who is the Mary Sue here?

Remember, the only difference between “classic lead character” and “Mary Sue” is “is this character a dude”

LOLOLOL. Men can be Gary Stus. Superman and James Bond are essentially these. Samus Aran, Ellen Ripley, and Lara Croft are leading female characters who are not Mary Sues.
 
Water-T said:
succeeds magically because he is the chosen one even though his sister is a hundred times more competent

LOLOL. Luke trained hard under Obi-Wan and Yoda. He didn't magically know how to Force control people into doing his bidding like Rey, who could suddenly use the Force to get guards to release her. Nor did Luke magically survive in open space, unlike Leia, who never utilized the Force before.
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Not only that, but Luke failed pretty miserably at the end of Empire precisely because he wasn't skilled enough to face off against Vader, which should speak as to why Luke can't be considered a Mary Sue when he has some pretty major failures on his part. Furthermore, Luke succeeded in turning Vader not through means of magic, but by convincing him that there was still good in him, which in turn allowed Vader to betray the Emperor.

None of Luke's accomplishments can be boiled down to magic or that he is the chosen one. It's because he failed, got back up, and tried again.
 
Man, I remember when Gail Simone tweeted about being in line to see the first Deadpool movie and a fan in front of her asking her if she was familiar with the character, not aware that she had written Deadpool comics herself, and when the internet kind of took off with that as another example of how awful male nerds are, she responded and clarified that she thought the whole incident was funny and that it wasn't this horrible, scarring experience for her. I respected her for that, because she emphasized just how excited this guy was. For a while, it seemed like she was more sensitive to awkward fanboys than most online columnists, who sought to demonize a bunch of people who, let's be real, are probably on the spectrum and would be further driven away from trying to understand nerdy women by these articles.

And then after Birds of Prey came out, a movie that she had written, and it wasn't received well she just kind of went off the rails and started quoting negative criticism paired with photos of Fuggler dolls and just writing out "DURRRRRRRR" and I was like... you okay? And of course that response only made things worse for her, even with all the tweets she put out trying to explain herself... she still had that public meltdown.

IDK maybe she was always like this and I just didn't notice, but it really did feel like the pressure of working on Birds of Prey, all that expectation built up only to have a movie that had a very tepid reception at best, makes me wonder if she's just turned completely bitter.

Twitter was a mistake.
 
Their's a basic fallacy that hovers around twitter that if you can somehow imply the flaws of the new films were present in the origionals it somehow negates the criticism of the new films .Even if you somehow suceed the truth is all you've effectively argued was star wars was always shit and nostalgia blinded you so you can just write off the entire franchise.

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This has naturally jumped onto the Mandalorian in general and specifically Lukes appearance since they're lazy and can't think. It speaks depths that mary sue is oblivious to the phrase gary stu incidentally.
 
Meowthkip said:
Man, I remember when Gail Simone tweeted about being in line to see the first Deadpool movie and a fan in front of her asking her if she was familiar with the character, not aware that she had written Deadpool comics herself, and when the internet kind of took off with that as another example of how awful male nerds are, she responded and clarified that she thought the whole incident was funny and that it wasn't this horrible, scarring experience for her. I respected her for that, because she emphasized just how excited this guy was. For a while, it seemed like she was more sensitive to awkward fanboys than most online columnists, who sought to demonize a bunch of people who, let's be real, are probably on the spectrum and would be further driven away from trying to understand nerdy women by these articles.

And then after Birds of Prey came out, a movie that she had written, and it wasn't received well she just kind of went off the rails and started quoting negative criticism paired with photos of Fuggler dolls and just writing out "DURRRRRRRR" and I was like... you okay? And of course that response only made things worse for her, even with all the tweets she put out trying to explain herself... she still had that public meltdown.

IDK maybe she was always like this and I just didn't notice, but it really did feel like the pressure of working on Birds of Prey, all that expectation built up only to have a movie that had a very tepid reception at best, makes me wonder if she's just turned completely bitter.

Twitter was a mistake.
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She deserves a thread
 
CWCissey said:
James Bond has actual flaws (haunted by a traumatic childhood, sex and alcohol addiction, enjoys violence).
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I don't know about the books, but I've never recalled James' childhood brought up in any meaningful way. He addictions are mostly passed off as charming and part of the job - I highly doubt we'll see a Bond film where he goes to AA or Sex Addicts Anonymous. To be in his line of work, being able to at least tolerate a high level of violence is required anyway.
 
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Water-T said:
I don't know about the books, but I've never recalled James' childhood brought up in any meaningful way. He addictions are mostly passed off as charming and part of the job - I highly doubt we'll see a Bond film where he goes to AA or Sex Addicts Anonymous. To be in his line of work, being to at least tolerate a high level of violence is required anyway.
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In the books he's far more brutish and far less charming. In fact I'd even call him misogynistic, not even in the fake womanizing way, but in the "women are lesser" way (his reaction upon hearing he has a woman partner is disdain and that women were for pleasure and not for work). He's much more cold towards everyone, and it's strongly implied he's an angry, lonely individual. If anything I'd say the books would make him less of a Mary Sue precisely because you get to see how much his life sucks.
 
Duncan Hills Coffee said:
In the books he's far more brutish and far less charming. In fact I'd even call him misogynistic, not even in the fake womanizing way, but in the "women are lesser" way (his reaction upon hearing he has a woman partner is disdain and that women were for pleasure and not for work). He's much more cold towards everyone, and it's strongly implied he's an angry, lonely individual. If anything I'd say the books would make him less of a Mary Sue precisely because you get to see how much his life sucks.
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Also, James Bond was far more conflicted about his work as a glorified assassin in the novels. He was particularly dour in The Living Daylights and even hoped Q would fire him for disobeying orders. He has no pretentions about his job at all, and his racial and gender politics were about to be expected for an upper class Brit of his time period (women were treated as inferior's at best, while his views regarding blacks were patronizing, to say the least). If anything, the films played up his sueish traits by making him more firmly heroic and glorifying his work as a spy. Timothy Dalton, who actually read the books, made his interpretation of the character more in line with the books, and his films were darker and grimmer as a result.
 
The Demon Pimp of Razgriz said:
Also, James Bond was far more conflicted about his work as a glorified assassin in the novels. He was particularly dour in The Living Daylights and even hoped Q would fire him for disobeying orders. He has no pretentions about his job at all, and his racial and gender politics were about to be expected for an upper class Brit of his time period (women were treated as inferior's at best, while his views regarding blacks were patronizing, to say the least). If anything, the films played up his sueish traits by making him more firmly heroic and glorifying his work as a spy. Timothy Dalton, who actually read the books, made his interpretation of the character more in line with the books, and his films were darker and grimmer as a result.
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Well the Bond character was created in the immediate aftermath of WW2 and to this day there is some element of that era in him.Which is why the character was already somewhat toned down by the time Connery played him.The dour gloomy Britain of 1950 was no longer as dour in 1960.You could actually say that in a way the mindset and worldview of the original character was already somewhat dated by the time the movies were rolling around.Every Bond needs to reflect to an extent the era.Camp in the 70's dour in the 80's carefree in the 90's grimm in the 2000's.Honestly I'm not entirely sure where you can take the character now since grimm has been overdone camp doesn't work and the character does seem more like a relic of not Cold War Britain but Imperial Britain.Its not that he's bad but he was created to appeal to people who saw no issue with capital punishment to give just one example and his attitude does reflect that.You change that and you basically no longer have the Bond that people like.But Britain today isn't that kind of country.
 
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