The Holocaust Thread - The Great Debate Between Affirmers, Revisionists and Deniers

[mgc]

Fuck off with your gaslighting. You literally get sentenced to prison in most western countries for questioning the shlomocaust and the whataboutism doesn't help your argument either.

I oppose that, and say that frequently. I also oppose the laws in Poland and Ukraine criminalizing denial of Soviet atrocities. That does not mean Stalin was a good boy.

Potato you are literally 100% wrong, it is illegal to deny Soviet atrocities like Katyn and the Holodomor in Poland and Ukraine.

 

[Stan]

You're coming at this like you've just watched another stupid holocaust movie or read some book and are really feeling their pain.

Is that what it is for you? A heart rending emotional drama?

It was a really cold, foggy day in 2011; and I was underdressed for the weather. The bus to Buchenwald had been warm, but now I felt like my toes might freeze off in my boots. My teacher first led us to the gate, with its inscription to memory: Jedem das seine. 'Every man gets what he deserves.' The gate is small, like an ornate garden gate, the words painted over in brick red. She said "Here, 56,545 people died from systematic and purposeful neglect, as inmates in prison on a starvation diet, forced to perform uncompensated hard labor, with minimal access to medical care or oversight of their well-being. They were brought here on the basis of religion, ethnicity, sexual orientation, and political affiliation. A Jesuit priest was brutally murdered here by SS officers. Thousands upon thousands of Jews met their death here, she said, and the Nazis deliberately tortured them at times and were merely casually sadistic in others. As we go along I am certain you will have questions and reactions. You may ask me whatever you wish, without fear of reprisal."

And to answer your other question, I would have no reason to support nazis even if they deported Jews. Robbing people of their money and deporting them is itself evil.

Don't forget about the part where the Dutch railway charged Jews 5 guilders each to to be taken from Amsterdam to Westerbork. It's why the railway conceded to a limited number of settlement payments in 2019-2020.

You mean third, don't you? Hebrew>English>German seems about right for you, from your postings.

You give me too much credit my friend. Shabbat Shalom!!

 

[potato in mah painus]

I oppose that, and say that frequently. I also oppose the laws in Poland and Ukraine criminalizing denial of Soviet atrocities. That does not mean Stalin was a good boy.

Potato you are literally 100% wrong, it is illegal to deny Soviet atrocities like Katyn and the Holodomor in Poland and Ukraine.

But why not in the majority of western countries like the holocaust is? I don't count backwater 3rd world shitholes. :^)

 

[Lemmingwise]

Almost like the laws rose at the same time the flow of information became uncontrollable, also funny that those laws only apply to the holocaust.
And not Holodomor, Flat earth, Tiananmen Square, Roswell... and so on.

I think it's more in response to the the response.

Besides nuremburg, there was a time in history where people weren't forced to hear about the lampshades and other stories frequently. But in the 70s they began to make a lot of movies and documentaries with the holocaust as a topic. And of course in hollywood holocaust movies received awards beyond their merit for unknown reasons.

(In more recent years Ricky gervais even joked in his extras series that kate winslet should do a holocaust movie to win an oscar. Then she did one for real and won the oscar, lmao.)

So in the 70s it became something that people would think about more. This started incurring a response and that response was squashed with legislation and persecution.

 

[Chugger]

After all, Mattogno (as a way of getting around the problem of millions of Jews disappearing in the Nazi camp system) claims about 2 million Jews were transited out of the camp system and resettled.

And to this we have to add the large amount of Jews in "Russia" not killed by SS police, eg the 300k Jews of western Ukraine . a large portion of this population would have been "non-employable", just like the Polish Jews. All sides agree that the ghettos in the east were uniformly liquidated, so this 2 + million (probably closer to 3 assuming the EG killings hadn't decimated them) must have been kept somewhere

a single giant "resettlement" city? this would have been the easiest to cover up. 30 Auschwitz sized camps? @Bonesjones earlier comment about the Jews being kicked off the trains, naked and penniless (because all their clothes and valuables had been seized in the Reinhard operation) doesn't make sense because the Germans ghettoized and isolated Jews as if their lives depended on it. this would be a 180 degree policy shift, which is of course completely unevidenced

in the HC blog book Mattogno and co were challenged and asked to provide specifics on the fate of the "resettled" millions. this was completely sidestepped. not even a single sentence about what happened to the Jews in 42-44, but there is a theory floated about post-war events (pg 755)

so the reason why no witness testimony exists is that apparently the Soviets rounded up all the resettled Jews and deported them to top secret camps in the Russian hinterland. there's no evidence of this, but it doesn't bother Mattogno and co -- their theory "has a basis of sound logic"

"non-presence of evidence" . . . hmm what have these guys spent tens of thousands of pages trying to debunk?

to the point where what is in the books is fiction compared to what supposedly transpired

what do you think happened? do you agree with revisionists who have spent infinitesimally more hours researching the subject than you have?

But why not in the majority of western countries like the holocaust is?

Holocaust conspiracy theorizing is wrapped up in the overall JQ, with most deniers believing that the Jews manufactured their own genocide, committing numerous crimes (perjury, witness abuse, libel) while doing so. So Holohoax is a cudgel, especially in the grug denier model, which can be used to attack a larger ethnicity

on the other hand soviet crime denial is political, not racial in nature, and so who exactly is the possible victim group here?

We can talk about Holocaust "propaganda"--whether various actors and countries have unduly benefited from it or sought to--but this has little to do with the 'truth value' of the original event

 

[mgc]

But why not in the majority of western countries like the holocaust is? I don't count backwater 3rd world shitholes. :^)

In France it is illegal to deny various genocides, not just the Holocaust. Take the L. It is not true that "only denial of the Holocaust is criminalized."

LOL at "non-presence of evidence." Just admit it is a dumb conspiracy theory with zero evidence, Mattogno.

 

[potato in mah painus]

In France it is illegal to deny various genocides, not just the Holocaust. Take the L. It is not true that "only denial of the Holocaust is criminalized."

LOL at "non-presence of evidence." Just admit it is a dumb conspiracy theory with zero evidence, Mattogno.

France is a 3rd world shithole too, just saying.

 

[AndEveryoneDied]

To be fair to stan, it is difficult for these discussions not to devolve into insults because most "affirmers" (if we are being honest) see the deniers as akin to flat-earthers. And it is hard for us to express that in non-insulting language.

I’d love a thread on the psychology of people who feel attacked by others harmless beliefs. It can’t be that those people don’t shut up about it, that would be too ‚pot calling the kettle black’. Is it just the high of self-righteousness?

I myself was never even a denier, or so I thought. The numbers (from all parties) sounded insane when you really thought about it so I thought that would be a fun little pub discussion but I learned real quick that that actually means you hate Jews and suddenly you’re being told stories of Jews being bullied about having horns and other shit you’ve never come across in your life but apparently happens all the time.

I think everyone in this thread fighting for the official Holocaust narrative has at some point accused the other side of simply hating Jews as if that’s the only reason to doubt the narrative and that thought process is what pisses me off the most. You can’t come into this looking for an honest discussion with those assumptions.

 

[Chugger]

I think everyone in this thread fighting for the official Holocaust narrative has at some point accused the other side of simply hating Jews as if that’s the only reason to doubt the narrative and that thought process is what pisses me off the most. You can’t come into this looking for an honest discussion with those assumptions.

if the basic denier model was shown to be true beyond any doubt -- that the Jews faked their own genocide (indicating a broader conspiracy and malevolent powers and intent, as well as an utterly debased morality) -- who wouldn't "hate" the Jews? or at least the powerful Jewish groups in the know. the connection is unavoidable

 

[mgc]

I’d love a thread on the psychology of people who feel attacked by others harmless beliefs.

I think we had better wait until we make another thread on how Holocaust deniers cannot read, since I never said in that thread that I "feel attacked" by deniers, any more than I feel attacked by flat earthers or Scientologists.

The assumption that deniers are anti-semites is reasonable because the case for denial is so stupid that nobody would believe it "on the evidence," particularly since (as Chugger's pictures showed) there is exactly 0 physical, testimonial, eocnomic, communicative, etc evidence of the deniers' alternative theory for how the Jews diappeared in the camp system, i.e. "resettlement."

 

[potato in mah painus]

I think everyone in this thread fighting for the official Holocaust narrative has at some point accused the other side of simply hating Jews as if that’s the only reason to doubt the narrative and that thought process is what pisses me off the most. You can’t come into this looking for an honest discussion with those assumptions.

Because honest discussion means the nazis weren't the turbo maniacs we have been lead to believe, and the antics of the Jewish leadership in the 1920s-1930s were what lead up to not just Germany, but the rest of the world giving 0 fucks on what happened to their kind:

https://www.history.com/news/wwii-jewish-refugee-ship-st-louis-1939

Many innocent people died because their leadership did a rock solid job making the religion/race as a whole hated.

 

[AndEveryoneDied]

if the basic denier model was shown to be true beyond any doubt -- that the Jews faked their own genocide (indicating a broader conspiracy and malevolent powers and intent, as well as an utterly debased morality) -- who wouldn't "hate" the Jews? or at least the powerful Jewish groups in the know. the connection is unavoidable

Any reasonable person (read: someone not goaded by the media) would never think each and every Jew at that time conspired to create the Holocaust narrative. Common sense dictates that many of them would have been duped themselves. If it was coordinated by powerful Jewish groups in the know of course everyone would hate them, but not because they‘re Jewish. If a majority of Jews were to then defend them, that may create anti-semitism but that‘s getting ahead of ourselves.

Do you think when you‘re trying to lead people into responding a certain way that you’re doing so in a sneaky way? You show no knowledge of actual human behavior.

 

[BasedCentrist]

if the basic denier model was shown to be true beyond any doubt -- that the Jews faked their own genocide (indicating a broader conspiracy and malevolent powers and intent, as well as an utterly debased morality) -- who wouldn't "hate" the Jews? or at least the powerful Jewish groups in the know. the connection is unavoidable

Is there anything wrong with disliking the powerful Jews? It's not like they love Europeans, especially nationalists and conservatives, either. I'd say Eastern Europeans have every right to dislike the Jews, since millions of them died under Communist rule, led by Jewish elites. Today most of the Oligarchs in Russia are still Jewish. In the mind of a leftist the old "elites" like the nobility are always the enemy, the absolute evil and target of hatred. Yet Jews are barred from any scrutiny.

 

[Chugger]

Any reasonable person (read: someone not goaded by the media) would never think each and every Jew at that time conspired to create the Holocaust narrative. Common sense dictates that many of them would have been duped themselves. If it was coordinated by powerful Jewish groups in the know of course everyone would hate them, but not because they‘re Jewish. If a majority of Jews were to then defend them, that may create anti-semitism but that‘s getting ahead of ourselves.

I think it's an extremely rare position among anti semites (even the Nazis) that every Jew is culpable. Rather most believe in a group of racially motivated elites bringing down the west and the white race, and probably racial and cultural characteristics encouraging this. the holohoax, if proven true, would be the first concrete evidence of these malevolent actions

the reason this would have a broader effect on all Jews is statistical. questions would be asked -- what is it about Jews that enabled them to do such a thing? we can remark on the unprecedented nature of the holohoax if proven . historical events have been fudged on a micro level, but we're talking about millions of people, complicity of multiple governments (US/British/Soviet) on the highest level. instantly all Jews working in high positions in media/government/business become suspect. are there punishments or preventive measures put in place to stop something like this happening again? this would include employment/education quotas or deportation to Israel

we can look at the party platform of the NJP (no doubt a sanitized version of what they actually believe) for some indications of what the policy might be

in this scenario the Nazis are probably also vindicated, so Nazi style anti semitism (which was certainly broadly applied) is going to be much more appealing

Do you think when you‘re trying to lead people into responding a certain way that you’re doing so in a sneaky way? You show no knowledge of actual human behavior.

how am I leading anyone exactly?

Is there anything wrong with "hating", as you put it, the powerful Jews?

no nothing is wrong with "hating" them (I don't like this word, but whatever) for any immoral actions they partake in

but if you're going to hate them at least in part for being Jewish, there should be some connection you can make. Jews want to bring the white race down for ethnic reasons? this is a debate we were having earlier , which we could have again, since the holocaust stuff appears to be pretty kicked

 

[mrolonzo]

Mrolonzo,

One thing before I reply to the other stuff, I need to know what you think happened to the Jews.

You said this before : What jews are you talking about? Are you sure about the numbers?

Do you not believe millions of Jews were sent over to the East? What exactly do you think happened to the Jews during the holocaust? How many Jews died or were resettled somewhere else, and where were they resettled?

My view is, Jews went where they are. About 300000 died.
Some were resettled east.

What kind of dumb response is this?

“Here are many reasons why many Jews were incapable of avoiding the nazi regime”

“Oh you’re just EMOTIONAL LOL”

Stans response is more than adequate to explain why the nazis would have no reason to cover up a deportation of millions. The Jews couldn’t leave, and the ones who could already had left. Send off the Gestapo to get the rest and you should have a vast majority of Jews in your hands. Especially during a war, they couldn’t get anywhere. Goebells quote was made in the December of 1942, a majority of Jews were under Nazi hands were they not?

Complete rubbish and addressed.

And please link me what this Israel thing is.

Absolutely not. It's not even in dispute and we already know the nazis tried to keep deportation quiet, thus the secrecy document.

And to answer your other question, I would have no reason to support nazis even if they deported Jews. Robbing people of their money and deporting them is itself evil.

Ok. How about the racism in general. You good with that?

he doesn't know. and I don't he think he cares

the EG probably did exagerate to a certain extent, but the numbers aren't 5 or 10x like revisionists hope. Maybe 10%? Ohlendorf talked about this during his trial, and I'm inclined to believe him. and yes, it betrays a strong need to please their superiors

The debate was pulled east where due to actual documents,
claimed mass grave sites and infrastructure the matter could be and was examined and was. Now it's in the east, with vague numbers, vague documents and again, no millions in the ground.

I wonder what @mrolonzo thinks of the Strauch/Kube dossier, a document which is an interesting portrait of an SS police leader complaining to his superiors about the attitude and behavior of the governor of belarus. it is as far as I know completely untouched by revisionists, even though it's major document (it was one of the first primary texts I read on the holocaust)

mrolonzo, are you Team Strauch or Team Kube?

Neither. What is the probitive value?

True, but Stans response to mrolonzo wasn’t emotional.

Stan is like 70% making good points and 30% getting into useless arguments. I remember some pages back when Stan, mrolonzo, and Bonesjones just called each other slurs over and over again.

Emotional stories of uncertain lineage. Might as well be giving us Zisblatt diamonds tale.

He's doing this in order to deceive everyone.

To be fair to stan, it is difficult for these discussions not to devolve into insults because most "affirmers" (if we are being honest) see the deniers as akin to flat-earthers. And it is hard for us to express that in non-insulting language.

Finally an honest statement. Except in this case, we know the physics and the documentary record and you don't. So just as flat earth is an extraordinary claim, so is the holocaust.

I do not understand how one can take seriously even the brightest deniers like Mattogno. After all, Mattogno (as a way of getting around the problem of millions of Jews disappearing in the Nazi camp system) embraces the ridiculous "resttlement" conspiracy theory, claiming that about 2 million Jews were transited out of the camp system and resettled.

In other words, he is claiming that there existed a community of millions of Jews in the 1940s (the resettled Jews), but that this community (which, at about 2 million, would have had more people than the entire country of Estonia) somehow left behind exactly zero infrastructure (no buildings or ruins of buildings), economic activity (no records of imports of the sort such a community would need to survive), communications (no records of letters or radio transmissions within this supposed community of 2 million), or testimonial evidence of its existence (zero witnesses, German, Jewish, or otherwise).

In other words Mattogno (and Zo, who is by far the most well-read denier here) are claiming that there existed some kind of modern-day Atlantis in Europe in the 1940s (where it was, he cannot be sure).

We admit the numbers are not clear. They're just not in the ground. That's all. This is a reasonable and limited claim. Further speculation made by Mattogno is just that. He's not able yet to pin down exactly how many there were and where they went.

View attachment 3593206​

That is flat-earth level shit.

This meme is decent but it betrays you. Fucking Matt Heimbach?

You seem now to have a problem with white nationalists and seek to abuse Germar. A man of real integrity.

Actually laws against Holocaust denial mostly did not exist before the 1990s, and censorship of denial online was marginal in (for example) the 2000s. And still it was seen as flat-earth nonsense but everybody other than ideologically-motivated weirdos.

It was actually the end of the cold war that changed the game really. After the Irving trial things got worse.

Explain the various things that have occurred to revisionist scholars and stop bullshiting people.

I oppose that, and say that frequently. I also oppose the laws in Poland and Ukraine criminalizing denial of Soviet atrocities. That does not mean Stalin was a good boy.

Potato you are literally 100% wrong, it is illegal to deny Soviet atrocities like Katyn and the Holodomor in Poland and Ukraine.

Your opposition doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

The polish deny their officers were killed?

It was a really cold, foggy day in 2011; and I was underdressed for the weather. The bus to Buchenwald had been warm, but now I felt like my toes might freeze off in my boots. My teacher first led us to the gate, with its inscription to memory: Jedem das seine. 'Every man gets what he deserves.' The gate is small, like an ornate garden gate, the words painted over in brick red. She said "Here, 56,545 people died from systematic and purposeful neglect, as inmates in prison on a starvation diet, forced to perform uncompensated hard labor, with minimal access to medical care or oversight of their well-being. They were brought here on the basis of religion, ethnicity, sexual orientation, and political affiliation. A Jesuit priest was brutally murdered here by SS officers. Thousands upon thousands of Jews met their death here, she said, and the Nazis deliberately tortured them at times and were merely casually sadistic in others. As we go along I am certain you will have questions and reactions. You may ask me whatever you wish, without fear of reprisal."

Don't forget about the part where the Dutch railway charged Jews 5 guilders each to to be taken from Amsterdam to Westerbork. It's why the railway conceded to a limited number of settlement payments in 2019-2020.

You give me too much credit my friend. Shabbat Shalom!!

Disgusting manipulation as usual.

And to this we have to add the large amount of Jews in "Russia" not killed by SS police, eg the 300k Jews of western Ukraine .

Why add them?

Do we have to find them for you too?

a large portion of this population would have been "non-employable", just like the Polish Jews. All sides agree that the ghettos in the east were uniformly liquidated, so this 2 + million (probably closer to 3 assuming the EG killings hadn't decimated them) must have been kept somewhere

Why must they have been kept somewhere? For how long? All at once or piecemeal?

a single giant "resettlement" city? this would have been the easiest to cover up. 30 Auschwitz sized camps?

A large city would be easy to cover up?

@Bonesjones earlier comment about the Jews being kicked off the trains, naked and penniless (because all their clothes and valuables had been seized in the Reinhard operation) doesn't make sense because the Germans ghettoized and isolated Jews as if their lives depended on it. this would be a 180 degree policy shift, which is of course completely unevidenced

in the HC blog book Mattogno and co were challenged and asked to provide specifics on the fate of the "resettled" millions. this was completely sidestepped. not even a single sentence about what happened to the Jews in 42-44, but there is a theory floated about post-war events (pg 755)

Jews were sent away naked? More likely Jews were searched for extra valuables and deloused for the onward journey. But also increasingly held west for the various works needing done.

Revisionists try not to make statements on the basis of no hard evidence. So that's fine.

View attachment 3593335

so the reason why no witness testimony exists is that apparently the Soviets rounded up all the resettled Jews and deported them to top secret camps in the Russian hinterland. there's no evidence of this, but it doesn't bother Mattogno and co -- their theory "has a basis of sound logic"

View attachment 3593403

"non-presence of evidence" . . . hmm what have these guys spent tens of thousands of pages trying to debunk?

It's reasonable argumentation. Recognising their own problems. Peddlers of your shit are unable to do likewise generally but anyway we all agree these millions are not buried in the AR camps or at Auschwitz. Therefore the AR camps were transit camps and the others were work camps. Thus resettlement is likely, though not definitively demonstrated, as such Mattogno talks about it being 'likely' jews were hidden by Stalin.

Holocaust conspiracy theorizing is wrapped up in the overall JQ, with most deniers believing that the Jews manufactured their own genocide, committing numerous crimes (perjury, witness abuse, libel) while doing so. So Holohoax is a cudgel, especially in the grug denier model, which can be used to attack a larger ethnicity

Well so many lies are told and expected to be believed.

You can't manufacture your own genocide. You can however, manufacture propaganda making tremendous claims about what happened...gas chambers with zyklon b and such. The efforts to manufacture propaganda goes back to the beginning of the war and is well demonstrated.

As for cudgels. Speak for yourself. You're accusing nazis of the most heinous crime without even a body.

Further, the weeds on this stuff was actually handled by codoh on this thread;

https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=13476&hilit=Goebbels+secrecy&start=30

I invite all readers to go through this thread.

on the other hand soviet crime denial is political, not racial in nature, and so who exactly is the possible victim group here?

White people.

We can talk about Holocaust "propaganda"--whether various actors and countries have unduly benefited from it or sought to--but this has little to do with the 'truth value' of the original event

True enough.

 

[mrolonzo]

I think it's an extremely rare position among anti semites (even the Nazis) that every Jew is culpable. Rather most believe in a group of racially motivated elites bringing down the west and the white race, and probably racial and cultural characteristics encouraging this. the holohoax, if proven true, would be the first concrete evidence of these malevolent actions

the reason this would have a broader effect on all Jews is statistical. questions would be asked -- what is it about Jews that enabled them to do such a thing? we can remark on the unprecedented nature of the holohoax if proven . historical events have been fudged on a micro level, but we're talking about millions of people, complicity of multiple governments (US/British/Soviet) on the highest level. instantly all Jews working in high positions in media/government/business become suspect. are there punishments or preventive measures put in place to stop something like this happening again? this would include employment/education quotas or deportation to Israel

we can look at the party platform of the NJP (no doubt a sanitized version of what they actually believe) for some indications of what the policy might be

in this scenario the Nazis are probably also vindicated, so Nazi style anti semitism (which was certainly broadly applied) is going to be much more appealing


how am I leading anyone exactly?


no nothing is wrong with "hating" them (I don't like this word, but whatever) for any immoral actions they partake in

but if you're going to hate them at least in part for being Jewish, there should be some connection you can make. Jews want to bring the white race down for ethnic reasons? this is a debate we were having earlier , which we could have again, since the holocaust stuff appears to be pretty kicked

It's simply the cross of ethnic and national interests. Jews are a politically significant and extremely interested minority across the west. They don't always agree on things except of course, what's good for Jews. We don't have a problem with people seeking their interests. As long as everyone gets to do the same.

I think we had better wait until we make another thread on how Holocaust deniers cannot read, since I never said in that thread that I "feel attacked" by deniers, any more than I feel attacked by flat earthers or Scientologists.

The assumption that deniers are anti-semites is reasonable because the case for denial is so stupid that nobody would believe it "on the evidence," particularly since (as Chugger's pictures showed) there is exactly 0 physical, testimonial, eocnomic, communicative, etc evidence of the deniers' alternative theory for how the Jews diappeared in the camp system, i.e. "resettlement."

The holocaust is profoundly stupid and silly, which is again, why it's propagated first and foremost.

Its been disproved in the west. Therefore the "where did they go then?" position rules in anti revisionism sentiment. Which is , while actually a reasonable question, also making it clear that the other postulate that they're not in the ground of Auschwitz or the AR camps is no longer seriously disputed..


I tend to find that anti revisionists are the true anti nazi liberals or leftists. If you go on skeptic forum there are a few real proud liberals who promote this rubbish there after finding problems being honest on codoh and not wanting to have a real fight on rodoh either. Strangely they could hash it out in the weeds on rodoh, and don't have to be completely straight. But they don't want to.... because rodoh doesn't have much traffic.... and it's traffic rather than intellectual inquiry they're after. This is confirmed with the example of HS's branding.

 

[mrolonzo]

I’d love a thread on the psychology of people who feel attacked by others harmless beliefs. It can’t be that those people don’t shut up about it, that would be too ‚pot calling the kettle black’. Is it just the high of self-righteousness?

I myself was never even a denier, or so I thought. The numbers (from all parties) sounded insane when you really thought about it so I thought that would be a fun little pub discussion but I learned real quick that that actually means you hate Jews and suddenly you’re being told stories of Jews being bullied about having horns and other shit you’ve never come across in your life but apparently happens all the time.

I think everyone in this thread fighting for the official Holocaust narrative has at some point accused the other side of simply hating Jews as if that’s the only reason to doubt the narrative and that thought process is what pisses me off the most. You can’t come into this looking for an honest discussion with those assumptions.

Dude. The very accusation of hating is ridiculous. It's a rhetorical weapon. That's all. Widely used. To hate, to despise, to detest. All normal.

In France it is illegal to deny various genocides, not just the Holocaust. Take the L. It is not true that "only denial of the Holocaust is criminalized."

LOL at "non-presence of evidence." Just admit it is a dumb conspiracy theory with zero evidence, Mattogno.

Non presence simply means it may still exist.

Denying various genocides was an add on in the 90s to cover a range.

Example;

ADL; Holocaust denial is hate speech! It harms Jews!

France; ok mon ami, ave it your way...

Other western minorities; b..b...but what about ours too!!

ADL; ok, we have no objection. If all minorities claims on history are protected from whites, then ours are even more guaranteed their protection.

France; well ok then!! Everybody shut up about the past. If you want an opinion about the past simply ask us, we'll consider the matter in conjunction with our partners and let you know what you can say....

 

[Clorox Cowboy]

..

Why are you shitting up the thread by triple posting weaker counter arguments then are already in the thread? At least learn to use the edit button.

 

[mrolonzo]

Why are you shitting up the thread by triple posting weaker counter arguments then are already in the thread? At least learn to use the edit button.

These are all devastating factoids to the narrative. Peddlers avoid all kinds of issues in this thread. Im just bringing clarity to things.

HS and Chuggers and Stan make general widespread accusations against revisionists. They're stupid, they can't read etc. They pretend the holocaust is legitimate. Those who don't believe the hype make general responses in turn. I make specific responses. The debate here has been won over and over again here by revisionism every time our peddlers choose to try another tack rather than simply answering the point.

This happened in codoh too.

 

[Stan]

In France it is illegal to deny various genocides, not just the Holocaust. Take the L. It is not true that "only denial of the Holocaust is criminalized."

LOL at "non-presence of evidence." Just admit it is a dumb conspiracy theory with zero evidence, Mattogno.

I don't know what to call a "historian" whose occupation is to suggest alternate possibilities based on lacunae in the corpus of evidence. "Fiction author", maybe.

I’d love a thread on the psychology of people who feel attacked by others harmless beliefs. It can’t be that those people don’t shut up about it, that would be too ‚pot calling the kettle black’. Is it just the high of self-righteousness?

I myself was never even a denier, or so I thought. The numbers (from all parties) sounded insane when you really thought about it so I thought that would be a fun little pub discussion but I learned real quick that that actually means you hate Jews and suddenly you’re being told stories of Jews being bullied about having horns and other shit you’ve never come across in your life but apparently happens all the time.

I think everyone in this thread fighting for the official Holocaust narrative has at some point accused the other side of simply hating Jews as if that’s the only reason to doubt the narrative and that thought process is what pisses me off the most. You can’t come into this looking for an honest discussion with those assumptions.

You're a shithead if you think Holocaust denial is a "harmless belief". Pretending that historically attested events are up for public debate because you think "the numbers from all parties sounded insane" is how a seven year old thinks about the world. But besides being childish and self-centered, this way of life is an affront to facts, reason, and memory. Unfortunately, the longevity of fact-free ideologies like Holocaust denial demonstrate that we can't just expect reason and truth to actually carry the day; misinformation in service of ideology are actually stronger.