The Holocaust Thread - The Great Debate Between Affirmers, Revisionists and Deniers

[Lemmingwise]

Jeez dude, why are you getting so riled up? “This is your final warning” lmao. Is this your way of winning arguments? By posting their private information?

I've won my fair share of arguments in this thread and anyone can read this thread, that it's clear that what you're suggesting is not the case. That's all I'll need to say on the matter.

 

[Chugger]

Goebells had no reason to “run the risk of gradually being discovered” if all he was doing was expulsions, which is “as old as war.” Every countries probably expelled people during a war, the nazis doing such a thing would barely warrant any outcry.

they were deporting hundreds of thousands of Jews in full public view so there was nothing to be discovered. everyone knew. mrolonzo's statement is nonsensical

and he goes further and compromises his own argument , by saying expulsions are normal, and thus nothing to hide. so why not provide a smidgeon of evidence that resettlement was not a cover story and they were being maintained somewhere in Russia? they were willing to push the story elsewhere, such as in the case of "propagandalager" Theresienstadt

Answer: mrolonzo's Nazis were braindead

I’m sorry chugger but I must agree with mrolonzo here, what exactly was your point here? The Germans couldn’t feed the Russians, right? I’ve been watching this thread ever since Chugger and Mrolonzo started fighting, but this point confused me the most. Are you saying that the Germans, intentionally starved themselves?

This was in response to mrolonzo saying: "We both know Germans were not about just killing people. That's agreed too."

So the point was that the citizens of Leningrad were not starved just because the Nazis wanted them dead. They had hundreds of thousands of soldiers enforcing the blockade that could have been used elsewhere, if the city surrendered. But in that case they would have had to feed and tend to the population, which was difficult given the resource situation.

In terms of the Holocaust, policy shifted from resettlement to liquidation in 1941, again due to the precarious resource situation the Germans found themselves in

pre-Barbarossa plans by Backe, who ran their food supply (translated here by Mattogno - umpteen means 'countless' , 'untold')

and the whole war itself was predicated on a desire for control of resources and food supply https://germanhistorydocs.ghi-dc.org/pdf/eng/English61.pdf

and Hitler rose to power based on the dire economic situation Germany was in the early 30s, which wouldn't have been the case if they had unlimited food

 

[Aves]

I've won my fair share of arguments in this thread and anyone can read this thread, that it's clear that what you're suggesting is not the case. That's all I'll need to say on the matter.

I know you debate, and you do debate well, but saying “I’m going to doxx you!!” Is such a cowards way to win an argument.

On the other hand, Stan should have known better than to give anyone online private information, so this is still his fault.

they were deporting hundreds of thousands of Jews in full public view so there was nothing to be discovered. everyone knew. mrolonzo's statement is nonsensical

and he goes further and compromises his own argument , by saying expulsions are normal, and thus nothing to hide. so why not provide a smidgeon of evidence that resettlement was not a cover story and they were being maintained somewhere in Russia? they were willing to push the story elsewhere, such as in the case of "propagandalager" Theresienstadt

Answer: mrolonzo's Nazis were braindead


This was in response to mrolonzo saying: "We both know Germans were not about just killing people. That's agreed too."

So the point was that the citizens of Leningrad were not starved just because the Nazis wanted them dead. They had hundreds of thousands of soldiers enforcing the blockade that could have been used elsewhere, if the city surrendered. But in that case they would have had to feed and tend to the population, which was difficult given the resource situation.

In terms of the Holocaust, policy shifted from expulsion to liquidation in 1941, again due to the precarious resource situation the Germans found themselves in



and the whole war itself was predicated on a desire for control of resources and food supply https://germanhistorydocs.ghi-dc.org/pdf/eng/English61.pdf

and Hitler rose to power based on the dire economic situation Germany was in the early 30s, which wouldn't have been the case if they had unlimited food

Oh, that’s what you meant. But, doesn’t your logic explain why the nazis did not let Leningrad surrender? If the nazis did not have much food, they wouldn’t want to care for much more people, much less Russian people, right?

But you are right about the millions of people who mysteriously vanished eastward. That definitely the biggest thing that put me off. Millions of people magically disappear eastward and no one can explain what happened. I would love if mrolonzo gave some really good primary/secondary or other sources by people eastward talking about these people, but I haven’t seen much evidence yet.

 

[Chugger]

But, doesn’t your logic explain why the nazis did not let Leningrad surrender?

yes it does

to be clear, just like with the Jews, there was also a racial component and future plans factored into all this

The Führers Decision on Leningrad (Entschluß der Führers über Leningrad), transmitted by the Naval Warfare Command (Seekriegsleitung) to Army Group North on 29.09.1941 ( Tagebuch der Seekriegsleitung, quoted in Max Domarus, Hitler Reden und Proklamationen 1932-1945, Volume 4, Page 1755)

Subject: Future of the City of Petersburg
II. The Führer is determined to remove the city of Petersburg from the face of the earth. After the defeat of Soviet Russia there can be no interest in the continued existence of this large urban area. Finland has likewise manifested no interest in the maintenance of the city immediately at its new border.

But you are right about the millions of people who mysteriously vanished eastward. That definitely the biggest thing that put me off. Millions of people magically disappear eastward and no one can explain what happened. I would love if mrolonzo gave some really good primary/secondary or other sources by people eastward talking about these people, but I haven’t seen much evidence yet.

mrolonzo's Goebbels diary gambit also backfired because the diaries make clear that if the Jews weren't being killed most were gonna be housed east of Poland

unlike a document like the korherr report, a middle schooler should be able to parse this. earlier @Lemmingwise begged off the resettlement question, claiming lack of historical expertise, but it's all there in plain words in the diaries (translated here by a revisionist so no bias)

https://dagobertobellucci.wordpress.com/2012/10/19/goebbels-on-the-jews-part-2-by-thomas-dalton/

 

[mgc]

This is an excellent point by Chugger - the deportations and round-ups of Jews were done openly. When Goebbels mentions "the risk of becoming gradually discovered", he is obviously not referring to deportation to the East, but something else concerning the Jews.

 

[Aves]

yes it does

to be clear, just like with the Jews, there was also a racial component and future plans factored into all this

I’m not getting your point, if the nazis could not feed the Russians due to general food shortages, then why are they blamed for not feeding them?

 

[Chugger]

if the nazis could not feed the Russians due to general food shortages, then why are they blamed for not feeding them?

this is the argument made by Mattogno-- starting pg 177 https://ia600906.us.archive.org/18/...locaustTheExterminationCamps_Mattogno2013.pdf

but if you accept this logic, then the mass gassings are turned into a downright beneficent act, because Jews couldn't be fed either, and "euthanasia" was preferable to slow starvation.
Revisionists don't make this argument obviously, but some Nazis did:

But the Nazis didn't have to let them starve or "euthanize" them. They could have diverted food from the ~150 million non-combatants living in western europe, Germany, Poland.

And of course it was unethical to launch an aggressive war of territorial conquest in the first place, not to mention one that they knew would lead to tens of millions of civilians deaths due to resource scarcity.

 

[mrolonzo]

1. Because if nazis really did treat their Jews well, wouldn’t it be shown in their speeches too?

Why would it be shown? They detested Jews. Have you been reading Goebbels entries or not?

A. Like goebell wrote very often in his diary about what was happening in Germany, do you really think, assuming that the holocaust didn’t happen, that he would never mention how well he treated the Jews, despite hating them? Nazis even deloused them, according to you. That’s pretty caring for people who want you gone.

1. True it is pretty caring but it's more about public health.

2. He does mention them getting a good deal how is killing them later a good deal?

3. Delousing happens for all kinds of reasons.

B. The nazis also would have mentioned this on the global stage too. They were being accused of killing millions before the war ended, would Hitler or Himmler or any high ranking nazis not write documentation or speeches on how well they have been treated these Jews?

1. Dismissed as the propaganda it was.

2. Why would they?

Us peddlers can easily show that the high level nazis had some kind of genocidal plans in their speeches and in the diary( kill them like rats, 1.2 million sentenced to death) I’m just asking for documents from you to show the opposite, that nazis did not intend to kill Jews.

1. No you can't you that. You can claim this word means this or that. That's about it.

2. Im just asking for a single gassed body or a document specifically stating the organisational intent to murder Jews by gas.

We show you document after document which you then insert the code words meme in for. Because without code words what do you have?

3. Think about this for a second. If the Jews were held to ve simply expelled, despite the suffering and property loss, most of us wouldn't give a fuck. In fact many would even laugh about it. It would gain very very little traction in European consciousness. Thus you need to turn every accusation and every emotion up to 11 to get the effect you want for an already detested minority.

What's so hard about this?

Penny dropping yet?

2. You literally said that deportations “is as old as warfare.”

A. Expulsions happen in basically every war. It’s happened many times whenever a country invades. Tons of countries have done it. Why would nazi germanies expulsion be any different? Why would anyone care about it that much? Hell, even Americans did it to the Mexicans in operation wetback when they weren’t even in a war. The Soviets also expelled Polish citizens during WWII. This “expulsion” isn’t special in anyway, it’s just pretty planned out and big.

Expulsions are old, they're not uncontroversial. States don't usually advertise this stuff. Isreal is a good example.

B. Also, how would you even cover an expulsions up??? If you kicked out millions of Jews east, they are inevitably going to talk about how they have been expelled. This would have been world news in just a few months. There is no way to cover up something like this.

Same way Israelis do. You do it then by the time anyone works up a plan against it, it's already done. Plus the whole AR operation thing too.

There just isn’t any reason to cover up something that 1) happens basically all the time in every war and 2) would be super hard to cover up in the first place.

Also, it barely affects Western Europe. Plus, remember 109 countries? Expelling has happened many times to Jews, what’s one more kick?

1. There are numerous reasons. Stop being silly.

2. Wait 109 countries? You sure? Doesn't that undermine the narrative of the innocence of the Jewish communities?

What exactly have I ignored?

Disagreeing with your absurd interpretations of the Goebbels diaries as benign towards the Jews is not ignoring you, it is a disagreement.

You completely ignored the last post. You're supposed to directly respond to each point.

No one gives a fuck if you disagree. They want to see you acknowledge the point. It may not fit in your framework but is it decent point? Or are you just dismissing or ignoring anything you don't like?

That's the basis of actual intellectual inquiry.

they were deporting hundreds of thousands of Jews in full public view so there was nothing to be discovered. everyone knew. mrolonzo's statement is nonsensical

and he goes further and compromises his own argument , by saying expulsions are normal, and thus nothing to hide. so why not provide a smidgeon of evidence that resettlement was not a cover story and they were being maintained somewhere in Russia? they were willing to push the story elsewhere, such as in the case of "propagandalager" Theresienstadt

Answer: mrolonzo's Nazis were braindead

1. There was plenty to be discovered. My statement makes complete sense.

2. Resettlement was not a cover story, the documents prove that. Confirmed by Jews actually being sent east.

3. They literally told the AR staff to keep schtum.

4. The existence of good camps they're proud of again doesn't mean there are bad camps with holocausts going on.

5. The nazis were extremely intelligent.

This was in response to mrolonzo saying: "We both know Germans were not about just killing people. That's agreed too."

So the point was that the citizens of Leningrad were not starved just because the Nazis wanted them dead. They had hundreds of thousands of soldiers enforcing the blockade that could have been used elsewhere, if the city surrendered. But in that case they would have had to feed and tend to the population, which was difficult given the resource situation.

If the city surrendered they'd have a city size population to deal with.

Better for them all to fuck off East making it harder for them to ever bother Europe again.

In terms of the Holocaust, policy shifted from expulsion to liquidation in 1941, again due to the precarious resource situation the Germans found themselves in

Nope. Never happened. Resource problems do not mean mass murder by gas.

and the whole war itself was predicated on a desire for control of resources and food supply https://germanhistorydocs.ghi-dc.org/pdf/eng/English61.pdf

and Hitler rose to power based on the dire economic situation Germany was in the early 30s, which wouldn't have been the case if they had unlimited food

1. Again. One problem doesn't denote a holocaust. Goerring explained this at trial, a total solution to the JQ was the idea. The JQ was an issue long before the nazis.


2. Reaching, stretching.

I know you debate, and you do debate well, but saying “I’m going to doxx you!!” Is such a cowards way to win an argument.

On the other hand, Stan should have known better than to give anyone online private information, so this is still his fault.


Oh, that’s what you meant. But, doesn’t your logic explain why the nazis did not let Leningrad surrender? If the nazis did not have much food, they wouldn’t want to care for much more people, much less Russian people, right?

But you are right about the millions of people who mysteriously vanished eastward. That definitely the biggest thing that put me off. Millions of people magically disappear eastward and no one can explain what happened. I would love if mrolonzo gave some really good primary/secondary or other sources by people eastward talking about these people, but I haven’t seen much evidence yet.

Q. What's the easiest way to disappear millions of people?

A. Pretend extra millions existed then ask where they went.

yes it does

to be clear, just like with the Jews, there was also a racial component and future plans factored into all this

The Führers Decision on Leningrad (Entschluß der Führers über Leningrad), transmitted by the Naval Warfare Command (Seekriegsleitung) to Army Group North on 29.09.1941 ( Tagebuch der Seekriegsleitung, quoted in Max Domarus, Hitler Reden und Proklamationen 1932-1945, Volume 4, Page 1755)



mrolonzo's Goebbels diary gambit also backfired because the diaries make clear that if the Jews weren't being killed most were gonna be housed east of Poland


@Lemmingwise begged off the resettlement question, claiming lack of historical expertise, but it's all there in plain words in the diaries (translated here by a revisionist so no bias)

https://dagobertobellucci.wordpress.com/2012/10/19/goebbels-on-the-jews-part-2-by-thomas-dalton/

The Goebbels diary was brought up by you guys wasn't it?

Anyway, this diary disproved the holocaust. Which is why it's avoided by peddlers.

For every violent statement, I've got two or three explusion statements. Which is why revisionists were so interested in unearthing and translating it.

This is an excellent point by Chugger - the deportations and round-ups of Jews were done openly. When Goebbels mentions "the risk of becoming gradually discovered", he is obviously not referring to deportation to the East, but something else concerning the Jews.

He is obviously referring to deportation. As he does frequently throughout.

this is the argument made by Mattogno-- starting pg 177 https://ia600906.us.archive.org/18/...locaustTheExterminationCamps_Mattogno2013.pdf

but if you accept this logic, then the mass gassings are turned into a downright beneficent act, because Jews couldn't be fed either, and "euthanasia" was preferable to slow starvation.
Revisionists don't make this argument obviously, but some Nazis did:
View attachment 3587084

But the Nazis didn't have to let them starve or "euthanize" them. They could have diverted food from the ~150 million non-combatants living in western europe, Germany, Poland.

Why on earth would they do that?

That's silly.

And of course it was unethical to launch an aggressive war of territorial conquest in the first place, not to mention one that they knew would lead to tens of millions of civilians deaths due to resource scarcity.

So much bullshit to examine there;

1. Wars of conquest are unethical?

2. Are you actually aware of Germany's position at the time?

3. How are you enjoying the fruits of where you live currently? Who lost out to make that happen for you? Why aren't you leaving?

The aim is to rationalise Europe after centuries of immigration and division. The Poles can have a rump state, the bolsheviks can fuck off way east, Czechoslovakia is completely fake anyway etc and France and Britain are unaffected.


By the way, peddlers what do you think of this?

https://vimeo.com/736667759

 

[Chugger]

mrolonzo, you're doing the rodoh thing again where you make statements absent of argumentation. eg when we brought up the fact that mass deportations were public and obvious to probably tens of millions of Poles (just in Poland, everyone in Germany/France/Netherlands/etc was aware as well)--so your statement that Goebbels was worried the expulsions might be "gradually discovered" is nonsensical-- you responded quite simply

" There was plenty to be discovered. My statement makes complete sense."

and the only other thing you can do is refer back to codoh or mattogno, where actual arguments are made , albeit not very good ones. mrolonzo, you're a shitty shit revisionist. If I wanted to (call me Adolf Chuggler) I could do a vastly better job, and make for much better practice for HS (who I think is here to train a little for his debate with Mike Enoch)

as for your request of a single gassed body . . . I posted numerous ones, but perhaps your brain was too rodohed out so you forgot

as for your request of a single document showing mass gassing . . . I've posted these before as well (and there's more), but what difference would it make? The pledge low ranking SS guards took that they couldn't kill inmates without authorization supersedes all this and proves they are fake, no?

intent:

in practice:

 

[Aves]

Mrolonzo, (reply doesn’t work)

Yes, caring for someone’s public health and delousing is still caring for them. If goebell wrote a day by day activity on how the Jews were treated, why did he never mention this? He said they were getting a “good deal” out west as easily as he says 60% of them are to be liquidated. A “good deal” can easily refer to being sentenced to ghettos and then murdered.

Secondly, the nazis did use propaganda especially when it came to the Red Cross. It would not have been dismissed. That the point of that village chugger mentioned. If millions of Jews had been resettled east, why would the Red Cross not have been sent there? It would have been the perfect debunking of genocidal claims if you can get a third party to verify. Also, propaganda easily works across borders. If a bunch of Germans received word that a giant massacre was happening in their borders, you would have many nazi staff speaking against it.

It also would have been brought up post war in trials, even in trials much later on western Germany. “Millions of Jews are living in the east, why am I being accused of genocide?” Seriously, there would have been a bunch of Nazi staff talking about this after the war if it did happen.

You are also going to have to tell me what exactly this Israel expulsion is. Israel covered up a mass deportation? And now no one knows where these deported individuals are?

Secondly, you also don’t have to cover up a deportation in a war. The Soviets have way more pressing matters to deal with, namely the nazis themselves. What the fuck are a bunch of Jews gonna do, starve themselves? Why is this worth covering up? And weren’t a bunch of Jews also sent to non Soviet areas?

If the Jews were held to ve simply expelled, despite the suffering and property loss, most of us wouldn't give a fuck. In fact many would even laugh about it

And where are these mysterious millions of Jews for us to laugh at? I’d love to laugh at them too, yet I can’t find them. Can the millions of Jews deported eastward please stand up?

My point here is not “pro believer” but “anti denial”. The bodies argument is not very interesting to me. You claim millions of Jews were sent east, and they all just disappear into thin air. What happened to them? If you don’t have witnesses on the east or anything like that, that’s fine. “We” don’t have bodies. But my point is that your story has a giant hole in it.

The 109 countries part is also a reason why there would be very little reason to cover up a deportations. Europe and America were not big fans of Jews in general before the war. There would be no risk of “gradually being discovered.”

 

[mrolonzo]

mrolonzo, you're doing the rodoh thing again where you make statements absent of argumentation. eg when we brought up the fact that mass deportations were public and obvious to probably tens of millions of Poles (just in Poland, everyone in Germany/France/Netherlands/etc was aware as well)--so your statement that Goebbels was worried the expulsions might be "gradually discovered" is nonsensical-- you responded quite simply

" There was plenty to be discovered. My statement makes complete sense."

and the only other thing you can do is refer back to codoh or mattogno, where actual arguments are made , albeit not very good ones. mrolonzo, you're a shitty shit revisionist. If I wanted to (call me Adolf Chuggler) I could do a vastly better job, and make for much better practice for HS (who I think is here to train a little for his debate with Mike Enoch)

as for your request of a single gassed body . . . I posted numerous ones, but perhaps your brain was too rodohed out so you forgot

as for your request of a single document showing mass gassing . . . I've posted these before as well (and there's more), but what difference would it make? The pledge low ranking SS guards took that they couldn't kill inmates without authorization supersedes all this and proves they are fake, no?

intent:
View attachment 3588822

in practice:

View attachment 3588825

Sorry but your gishgalloping and ignoring points means replies are short. You could of course stick to the point and ask why or in what way there was plenty to be discovered but of course, you don't. Because you're not actually interested.

Your gassed bodies was Natzweiler wasn't it? That's not the holocaust.

This gas vans stuff is even sillier.

I'm a pretty decent revisionist poster. Im handling you peddlers of filth quite easily simply by posting revisionist text.

Mrolonzo, (reply doesn’t work)

Yes, caring for someone’s public health and delousing is still caring for them. If goebell wrote a day by day activity on how the Jews were treated, why did he never mention this? He said they were getting a “good deal” out west as easily as he says 60% of them are to be liquidated. A “good deal” can easily refer to being sentenced to ghettos and then murdered.

He wasn't Kommandant of a camp. That's why.

How is sentenced to ghettos and then murdered a good deal?

Secondly, the nazis did use propaganda especially when it came to the Red Cross. It would not have been dismissed. That the point of that village chugger mentioned. If millions of Jews had been resettled east, why would the Red Cross not have been sent there? It would have been the perfect debunking of genocidal claims if you can get a third party to verify. Also, propaganda easily works across borders. If a bunch of Germans received word that a giant massacre was happening in their borders, you would have many nazi staff speaking against it.

The east was a war zone.

You guise! The nazis didn't debunk the holocaust in 1940s therefore it means they really did it!

It also would have been brought up post war in trials, even in trials much later on western Germany. “Millions of Jews are living in the east, why am I being accused of genocide?” Seriously, there would have been a bunch of Nazi staff talking about this after the war if it did happen.

Nazis were either on the run or under arrest or "committing suicide".

Are you saying nazis didn't bother to deny the holocaust?

You are also going to have to tell me what exactly this Israel expulsion is. Israel covered up a mass deportation? And now no one knows where these deported individuals are?

While its conducting a propaganda war, telling everyone about those evil terrorists, it quietly established facts. Then later, "look no way we can just evacuate 200,000 jews from the west bank, be reasonable. "

Secondly, you also don’t have to cover up a deportation in a war. The Soviets have way more pressing matters to deal with, namely the nazis themselves. What the fuck are a bunch of Jews gonna do, starve themselves? Why is this worth covering up? And weren’t a bunch of Jews also sent to non Soviet areas?

Lots of reasons;
Announcing your plans gives Jews a heads up to;
1. Hide
2. Go west
3. Hide their wealth accumulation
4. Build alliances and sympathy

If the Jews were held to ve simply expelled, despite the suffering and property loss, most of us wouldn't give a fuck. In fact many would even laugh about it

And where are these mysterious millions of Jews for us to laugh at? I’d love to laugh at them too, yet I can’t find them. Can the millions of Jews deported eastward please stand up?

What jews are you talking about? Are you sure about the numbers?

My point here is not “pro believer” but “anti denial”. The bodies argument is not very interesting to me. You claim millions of Jews were sent east, and they all just disappear into thin air. What happened to them? If you don’t have witnesses on the east or anything like that, that’s fine. “We” don’t have bodies. But my point is that your story has a giant hole in it.

The bodies argument is very very interesting. They're either much less than has been propagandised and simply either died mostly of typhus and / or left or turned to dust and buried by the nazis. We're happy to have every supposed mass grave dug up. We're pretty confident we're right, especially after the archeological research supported us.

The 109 countries part is also a reason why there would be very little reason to cover up a deportations. Europe and America were not big fans of Jews in general before the war. There would be no risk of “gradually being discovered.”

Again why? Plenty of germans and Europeans were married to jews, friends of Jews and giving intentions away is a tactical disadvantage. There is huge risk.

Anyway side question; if it wasn't for the holocaust did you like the nazis?

What about the racism? Good? Bad?

 

[AndEveryoneDied]

What's the holocaust deniers explanation for the disappearance of Jews in Western Europe? Poland, Amsterdam etc used to have a huge Jewish population, and now almost nothing. Did they all go to Palestine?

Personally I'm thinking you can never be sure of anything that happened, but it is quite likely something like the holocaust happened. Nazis were certainly quite open about wanting something bad to happen to the Jews.

Rate me late, but I see this question over and over again. Maybe I’m just underestimating how many Jews there were pre-war, but I’m in Europe and there’s a large Jewish population where I’m at. Jews are kind of like the vegan meme, they tend to tell you they’re Jewish even though no one asked. Which is whatever, but I base my numbers on that. For those who don’t make it obvious, the amount is then most likely higher. Is it all converts or what?

Wenn jeder von euch mit mir Deutsch sprechen wollen, einfach melden Sie mich in direktnachtrichten ein. Ich warte hoffnungsvoll auf Ihre Bekanntschaft.

Mit freundlichen Grussen,
Ihre Stanley

Why the hell are you siezen-ing us? Your German is not as good as you think it is.

 

[mgc]

Zo, one thing we have not discussed yet is the Einsatzgruppen.

Do you believe they systematically shot Jewish civilians, or just "partisans"? Do you think the Einsatzgruppen reports are authentic? (The Dean of Deniers Mattogno writes his Einsatzgruppen book on the assumption that the reports are real but that the Germans exaggerated the number of Jews they shot.)

 

[Chugger]

lol @mrolonzo's reasons for covering up a deportation

Announcing your plans gives Jews a heads up to;
1. Hide

where?

2. Go west

how?

3. Hide their wealth accumulation

where?

4. Build alliances and sympathy

with who? they were ghettoized, shot if they tried to escape. and again, they all knew they were being deported, so there was no cover up

mrolonzo, you are either a moron or historically illiterate. either way you are a disgrace to "learned" revisionism

 

[mrolonzo]

Zo, one thing we have not discussed yet is the Einsatzgruppen.

Do you believe they systematically shot Jewish civilians, or just "partisans"? Do you think the Einsatzgruppen reports are authentic? (The Dean of Deniers Mattogno writes his Einsatzgruppen book on the assumption that the reports are real but that the Germans exaggerated the number of Jews they shot.)

Yeah good post.

The EG book is actually a fucking tomb of a book. I've read most of it but I'm not deep on it.

The gist is, the EG groups were small groups that covered vast areas and had too much other work to do to go around shooting people wily nilly. There's a big difference between the every day normal incident reports and the higher reports. Plus lack of bodies and various other documents that relate a different story. It also deals with the action 1005 thingy where the nazis supposedly went back all around their "crime" sites and dug up then 're buried' all the victims.

 

[Stan]

Rate me late, but I see this question over and over again. Maybe I’m just underestimating how many Jews there were pre-war, but I’m in Europe and there’s a large Jewish population where I’m at. Jews are kind of like the vegan meme, they tend to tell you they’re Jewish even though no one asked. Which is whatever, but I base my numbers on that. For those who don’t make it obvious, the amount is then most likely higher. Is it all converts or what?

You're probably living in an enclave. Statistically, there aren't many Jews in Europe at all; whoever didn't get Shoah-ed moved away to America or Israel. But where they do live, they form communities where everything's within walking distance. Jews do this because they are not supposed to drive to the synagogue on Saturday; it's forbidden work. So if you're living in an eruv, you will see a predominance of Jews. Also n=1 and anecdotes =/= evidence

Why the hell are you siezen-ing us? Your German is not as good as you think it is.

Fuck you, I'm just rusty and trying to be courteous, like I did with Lemmingwise. If there's a general rule to dutzen on web forums, my bad; my pre-set is to siezen until you ask me to stop. Möchten Sie Deutsch mit mir sprechen oder nicht? Or are you just trying to discredit me because I'm pushing back on these willfully irresponsible translations from CODOH & etc.?

 

[mrolonzo]

lol @mrolonzo's reasons for covering up a deportation


where?

how?

where?

with who? they were ghettoized, shot if they tried to escape. and again, they all knew they were being deported, so there was no cover up

mrolonzo, you are either a moron or historically illiterate. either way you are a disgrace to "learned" revisionism

1. Houses. Cellars. Etc

2. Walk train bike car

3. Anywhere they can. Away from da ebil nazis.

4. Some were ghettoised yes.

No need to get animated over everything Chuggers. Chill.

 

[mgc]

The EG book is actually a fucking tomb of a book. I've read most of it but I'm not deep on it.

What is strange about Mattogno's argument is that he does not dispute the authenticity of the EG reports, but simply claims that the SS was exaggerating how many Jews they were shooting.

This is a double-edged sword for deniers though. If the EG are exaggerating to win favor with the higher-ups, it would appear that the higher-ups want to see Jews killed. And the amount of Jews the EG say they have killed in the reports (about 2 million) is obviously genocidal since it would amount to almost all the Jews in the occupied Soviet Union.

So even if one believes that the numbers are exaggerated in the EG reports, I cannot see how the reports can be read as anything other than proof of a genocidal policy on the part of the German gov against Soviet Jewry.

 

[Stan]

3. Anywhere they can. Away from da ebil nazis.

OK but where? The banks won't take their valuables for safekeeping; the government won't let you wire-transfer money out of the country, you can't buy an asset like a house and expect to keep it so... where to "hide" it? Did they just bury it in the yard and hope they can get it back later? I mean, that's what they did with their wedding rings at Sobibor. Which you still think was a transit camp.

 

[AndEveryoneDied]

I'm just rusty. I'm Siezen-ing you because I don't think of us as being on duzen level of familarity; since I have no idea who you are or how much older (or younger) you are than me. If there's a special rule to always duzen on the Farms lmk.

You just write like you‘re doing a class assignment and I honestly can’t tell if the super formal rigidness is just your schtick or more likely you’re over exaggerating how well you know it.

I‘m gonna leave this up even though you changed the response. If you didn‘t annoying use your German skills as a flex, I wouldn’t have bit.


Anecdotes don‘t necessarily equal evidence but I‘m also not going to ignore what’s right in front of me simply because it doesn‘t fit a narrative. I certainly don’t live in a Jewish neighborhood and it‘s mostly secular Jews anyways.