The Holocaust Thread - The Great Debate Between Affirmers, Revisionists and Deniers

[Lemmingwise]

You got yourself so worked up

The comments about you getting emotional are maybe a little too far though; and I apologize.

You say you apologize, yet you continue to try to tell me how I feel. Stop doing that, girl. Consider this a second warning. I'm not going to warn you a third time. At that point I'll just post our conversation and your university email address.

You can believe whatever you want, but you should stop and stop immediately with doing shit like this. Antagonizing someone who you have given leverage is a bad idea and honestly you should be thankful that I don't exercise this without warning.

But this is the last one. Disagree about whatever you like, but stop trying to use these emotional tactics with me. Don't tell me how I feel. You have exerted the limit of my patience for them.

 

[mrolonzo]

References to 'Six Million Jews' in Newspapers. Part 1-3d8LSraIzv4.mp4
Like these ones? IIRC Doesn't the number 6 million have some reference in their holy book?

Stan takes a dim view of poorly informed anti semitism but he'll love this.

Mrolonzo,

I don’t understand what makes lampshades so impossible. Ed Gein did it by himself, why wouldn’t other people? It’s not that difficult too. But since I don’t have evidence proving them, I shouldn’t care. I’m basing these arguments on whether they should be considered to historians as happened, but lampshades don’t have the evidence to show it happened.

I was asking for the documents (or quotations) where the nazis specifically mention their treatment of Jews, not your interpretation of them. You know that you interpret things very differently from us “peddlers”. If you give the quotations of them that would be nice, like how History Speaks gave direct quotations of how Goebells said the Jews have been killed like rats. Your himmler quote suggest that they did kill Jews, but then reduced the killing of them?

I've posted multiple quotations.

August 21st 1942

That's a direct quote.

 

[mgc]

Nazi liberation of Eastern Europe? By liberation are you referring to the razing of Warsaw, deliberate starvation of millions of Soviet POWs and other civilians, kidnapping and enslavement of millions more, ethnic cleansing of gentile Poles to make room for "racially superior" Gemran settlers, and deportation of many of the ethnically cleansed (see pic related) gentile Polish children to Auschwitz?

I would love to see you, presumably a monolingual Burger, go up to a group of Poles (in Poland) and talk about their "liberation" by the Nazis.

 

[Chugger]

August 21st 1942

he probably thought it was generous that 40% were spared and used for labor -- this turns out to be true, because virtually all of the Polish Jews in German territory didn't survive

I'll repost this cuz you didn't respond here and it has to do with a question @Aves was wondering about. What was the Nazi response to being accused of one the most heinous crimes in human history?

--

btw, in late 42 -- mass extermination was reported world wide "under the guise of resettlement in the east"

eg

how did Goebbels react in his diaries to the Juden making an accusation 100x worse than any propaganda spread during ww1?

he references it eg here

https://dagobertobellucci.wordpress.com/2012/10/19/goebbels-on-the-jews-part-2-by-thomas-dalton/

 

[mgc]

View attachment 3584962

he probably thought it was generous that 40% were spared and used for labor -- this turns out to be true, because virtually all of the Polish Jews in German territory didn't survive

I'll repost this cuz you didn't respond here and it has to do with a question @Aves was wondering about. What was the Nazi response to being accused of one the most heinous crimes in human history?

--

btw, in late 42 -- mass extermination was reported world wide "under the guise of resettlement in the east"

eg

how did Goebbels react in his diaries to the Juden making an accusation 100x worse than any propaganda spread during ww1?

he references it eg here

View attachment 3585029

https://dagobertobellucci.wordpress.com/2012/10/19/goebbels-on-the-jews-part-2-by-thomas-dalton/

So goebbels says "we already have to answer to some things, if we do not wanta to run the risk of becoming gradually discovered," and resolves to "change the subject."

Does not even deny it.

If Jews were actually being resettled East think of how easy it would be to make fools of the Allies for claiming they were being exterminated? Just make a movie showing the Jews being transited from the Reinhardt Camps to their permanent new home in "the East."

 

[mrolonzo]

Nazi liberation of Eastern Europe? By liberation are you referring to the razing of Warsaw, deliberate starvation of millions of Soviet POWs and other civilians, kidnapping and enslavement of millions more, ethnic cleansing of gentile Poles to make room for "racially superior" Gemran settlers, and deportation of many of the ethnically cleansed (see pic related) gentile Polish children to Auschwitz?

I would love to see you, presumably a monolingual Burger, go up to a group of Poles (in Poland) and talk about their "liberation" by the Nazis.

Why don't you quote me anymore HS? Are you butthurt about something or is it technical issue?

Anyway yeah this has already been addressed in the thread so you're just repeating it for spam effect.

And leave out the 'I would love to see you etc etc'. It just shows your emotional attachment dragging you from reason again.

View attachment 3584962

he probably thought it was generous that 40% were spared and used for labor -- this turns out to be true, because virtually all of the Polish Jews in German territory didn't survive

I'll repost this cuz you didn't respond here and it has to do with a question @Aves was wondering about. What was the Nazi response to being accused of one the most heinous crimes in human history?

--

btw, in late 42 -- mass extermination was reported world wide "under the guise of resettlement in the east"

eg

how did Goebbels react in his diaries to the Juden making an accusation 100x worse than any propaganda spread during ww1?

he references it eg here

View attachment 3585029

https://dagobertobellucci.wordpress.com/2012/10/19/goebbels-on-the-jews-part-2-by-thomas-dalton/

Yes. He thought some abnormal accusations were being made which was true, there were many, and didn't want to advertise the mass deportation. Indeed gassing etc is 100x times worse.

Thus again, no holocaust.

So goebbels says "we already have to answer to some things, if we do not wanta to run the risk of becoming gradually discovered," and resolves to "change the subject."

Does not even deny it.

If Jews were actually being resettled East think of how easy it would be to make fools of the Allies for claiming they were being exterminated? Just make a movie showing the Jews being transited from the Reinhardt Camps to their permanent new home in "the East."

That's a bad argument. You're literally basing your position on how you think someone should conduct a propaganda war.

 

[m1ddl3m4rch]

First, why would I not plug myself? It shows I am selfish, yes, but so is everybody, including even you, I daresay. Moreover, my self promotion here is working, given the massive amount of engagement I am getting from all of you.

You could argue that it is tasteless for me to promote my channel, and you would be quite right. But we are on kiwifarms, where tastelessness is a virtue if anything.

go up to a group of Poles (in Poland) and talk about their "liberation" by the Nazis.

https://embed.kiwifarms.st/attachments/czeslawa_kwoka_-_brasse-jpg.3585015/

"Don't forget to like, subscribe and SUH-MASH that bell to keep up with all the HistorySpeaks notifications. I don't stand on this dead Polish girl out of the kindness of my heart, I do it for subs and to score debate points by shameless appeal to emotion. Fuck her and her memory, she's just a photo in a box, a tool to advance my debunking career. The dead of the Holocaust are just my soapbox; I stand on them and shout my message: me."

 

[mrolonzo]

"Don't forget to like, subscribe and SUH-MASH that bell to keep up with all the HistorySpeaks notifications. I don't stand on this dead Polish girl out of the kindness of my heart, I do it for subs and to score debate points by shameless appeal to emotion. Fuck her and her memory, she's just a photo in a box, a tool to advance my debunking career. The dead of the Holocaust are just my soapbox; I stand on them and shout my message: me."

Oh fuck.

 

[Chugger]

He thought some abnormal accusations were being made which was true, there were many, and didn't want to advertise the mass deportation.

So you think when Goebbels says "we do not want to run the risk of gradually being discovered", he's talking about how the Germans were marching thousands of Jews day in and day out (1.5 mil by late 42 according to Hoefle) from the ghettos, through the city areas, to the train stations, where everyone could plainly see what was happening-- and then afterwards the emptied ghettos became part of the city proper

this is what Goebbels was worried about being "gradually discovered"?

I doubt even @JohnDoe or @Bonesjones will follow your logic here. better to be done with it and just say the diaries are fake

 

[mrolonzo]

So you think when Goebbels says "we do not want to run the risk of gradually being discovered", he's talking about how the Germans were marching thousands of Jews day in and day out (1.5 mil by late 42 according to Hoefle) from the ghettos, through the city areas, to the train stations, where everyone could plainly see what was happening-- and then afterwards the emptied ghettos became part of the city proper

this is what Goebbels was worried about being "gradually discovered"?

I doubt even @JohnDoe or @Bonesjones will follow your logic here. better to be done with it and just say the diaries are fake

Yes, after all, while gassings are abnormal, deportation/ expulsion is as old as warfare and this fits with the rest of the diaries and all the other Nazi documentation.

 

[mgc]

Zo,
First, It is a technical issue lol.

Second, I wonder if you would do me the courtesy of providing your interpretation of this speech by Robert Ley (see attached audio).

I have transcribed and translated the last sentence.

„Wir schwören, wir werden nicht eher den Kampf aufgeben, bis der letzte Jude in Europa vernichtet ist und gestorben ist!”

("We swear we will not give up the struggle until the last Jew in Europe is annihilated and dead!")

 

[JohnDoe]

I doubt even @JohnDoe or @Bonesjones will follow your logic here. better to be done with it and just say the diaries are fake

I really don't care what your MSWord screenshots show. It's completely irrelevant without direct forensic evidence, of which there is none.

 

[Aves]

Stan takes a dim view of poorly informed anti semitism but he'll love this.



I've posted multiple quotations.

August 21st 1942

That's a direct quote.

That quote isn’t what I was asking for. He does mention that Jews were being transported east, but it could easily refer to a later killing of them.

But my question was which quotes specifically refer to the fact that 1) the nazis took really good care of Jews, despite hating them and 2) their reaction to millions of Jews dying despite spending a ton on them. Because Goebells seems more than happy that the Jews were “killed like rats.” Your quotes refer to evacuations eastward but they do not refer to their fate afterwards. And chugger brought up a good point on how the “generosity” refers to 40% of Jews being used for work.

Just how there are quotes like “we sentence 1.2 million Jews to death” there should be quotes like “we will ensure these millions of Jews will be safe in our camps” or something along those lines.

And I’m not talking about the deportations, I’m talking about the Jews that were kept in the camps. You said that many Jews died of typhus in the camps, correct? How did nazis react to this on the higher levels?

Yes, after all, while gassings are abnormal, deportation/ expulsion is as old as warfare and this fits with the rest of the diaries and all the other Nazi documentation.

I don’t get it. Why would you cover up expulsions? If everyone accused you of killing millions, there would be no reason to cover up how well you treat Jews and how you just kicked them somewhere else.

Goebells had no reason to “run the risk of gradually being discovered” if all he was doing was expulsions, which is “as old as war.” Every countries probably expelled people during a war, the nazis doing such a thing would barely warrant any outcry.

 

[Aves]

yes, if the Germans had a magical food fairy that was capable of feeding unlimited people at no cost, they would have accepted Leningrad's surrender and freed up Army Group North

I also think if they had this food fairy, they would have gladly fed the 2-3 million Soviet POWs that died in 41-42 and instead used them for labor, just like they did with the million plus French and British POWs they had

There would have been no "hunger plan" either

And if they had this fairy probably they would have waited until after the war to push the non-employable Jews out of the ghettos, likely to Madagascar, and the "Holocaust" numbers would be similar to current revisionist estimates

But if they had this fairy, probably also no WW2, no Nazis, no Hitler

I’m sorry chugger but I must agree with mrolonzo here, what exactly was your point here? The Germans couldn’t feed the Russians, right? I’ve been watching this thread ever since Chugger and Mrolonzo started fighting, but this point confused me the most. Are you saying that the Germans, intentionally starved themselves?

 

[mrolonzo]

Zo,
First, It is a technical issue lol.

Second, I wonder if you would do me the courtesy of providing your interpretation of this speech by Robert Ley (see attached audio).

I have transcribed and translated the last sentence.

„Wir schwören, wir werden nicht eher den Kampf aufgeben, bis der letzte Jude in Europa vernichtet ist und gestorben ist!”

("We swear we will not give up the struggle until the last Jew in Europe is annihilated and dead!")

Ok. Let's note that for the umpteenth time, you ignore posts of mine and move on to another angle of accusation.

Robert Ley is leader of the labor front, effectively the state workers union, thus effectively a labor fire brand, a rabble rouser for the state. He isn't viewed very well apparently. And this is 1943.

Robert Ley quotes / "the Jew has got to be exterminated" etc

The CODOH Revisionist Forum: Holocaust Revisionism and WWII Revisionism Discussion / the time for honesty has come.

forum.codoh.com

That quote isn’t what I was asking for. He does mention that Jews were being transported east, but it could easily refer to a later killing of them.

But my question was which quotes specifically refer to the fact that 1) the nazis took really good care of Jews, despite hating them and 2) their reaction to millions of Jews dying despite spending a ton on them. Because Goebells seems more than happy that the Jews were “killed like rats.” Your quotes refer to evacuations eastward but they do not refer to their fate afterwards. And chugger brought up a good point on how the “generosity” refers to 40% of Jews being used for work.

Just how there are quotes like “we sentence 1.2 million Jews to death” there should be quotes like “we will ensure these millions of Jews will be safe in our camps” or something along those lines.

And I’m not talking about the deportations, I’m talking about the Jews that were kept in the camps. You said that many Jews died of typhus in the camps, correct? How did nazis react to this on the higher levels?

I don’t get it. Why would you cover up expulsions? If everyone accused you of killing millions, there would be no reason to cover up how well you treat Jews and how you just kicked them somewhere else.

Goebells had no reason to “run the risk of gradually being discovered” if all he was doing was expulsions, which is “as old as war.” Every countries probably expelled people during a war, the nazis doing such a thing would barely warrant any outcry.

1. There should be quotes like “we will ensure these millions of Jews will be safe in our camps” or something along those lines?

Really?

Why?

2. Because it was in fact still an extraordinarily ambitious undertaking that crossed boundaries all across Europe.

It would effect every single different society across Europe.

 

[Aves]

1. There should be quotes like “we will ensure these millions of Jews will be safe in our camps” or something along those lines?

Really?

Why?

2. Because it was in fact still an extraordinarily ambitious undertaking that crossed boundaries all across Europe.

It would effect every single different society across Europe.

1. Because if nazis really did treat their Jews well, wouldn’t it be shown in their speeches too?

A. Like goebell wrote very often in his diary about what was happening in Germany, do you really think, assuming that the holocaust didn’t happen, that he would never mention how well he treated the Jews, despite hating them? Nazis even deloused them, according to you. That’s pretty caring for people who want you gone.

B. The nazis also would have mentioned this on the global stage too. They were being accused of killing millions before the war ended, would Hitler or Himmler or any high ranking nazis not write documentation or speeches on how well they have been treated these Jews?

Us peddlers can easily show that the high level nazis had some kind of genocidal plans in their speeches and in the diary( kill them like rats, 1.2 million sentenced to death) I’m just asking for documents from you to show the opposite, that nazis did not intend to kill Jews.

2. You literally said that deportations “is as old as warfare.”

A. Expulsions happen in basically every war. It’s happened many times whenever a country invades. Tons of countries have done it. Why would nazi germanies expulsion be any different? Why would anyone care about it that much? Hell, even Americans did it to the Mexicans in operation wetback when they weren’t even in a war. The Soviets also expelled Polish citizens during WWII. This “expulsion” isn’t special in anyway, it’s just pretty planned out and big.

B. Also, how would you even cover an expulsions up??? If you kicked out millions of Jews east, they are inevitably going to talk about how they have been expelled. This would have been world news in just a few months. There is no way to cover up something like this.

There just isn’t any reason to cover up something that 1) happens basically all the time in every war and 2) would be super hard to cover up in the first place.

Also, it barely affects Western Europe. Plus, remember 109 countries? Expelling has happened many times to Jews, what’s one more kick?

 

[mgc]

Ok. Let's note that for the umpteenth time, you ignore posts of mine and move on to another angle of accusation.

What exactly have I ignored?

Disagreeing with your absurd interpretations of the Goebbels diaries as benign towards the Jews is not ignoring you, it is a disagreement.

 

[MadStan]

There is no point in anyone attempting to convince a holocaust denier that it happened.

They are here on this forum because regular society, academics and sane people in general can’t stomach their ignorance.

Good luck. You’ll need oodles of it.

 

[Aves]

You say you apologize, yet you continue to try to tell me how I feel. Stop doing that, girl. Consider this a second warning. I'm not going to warn you a third time. At that point I'll just post our conversation and your university email address.

You can believe whatever you want, but you should stop and stop immediately with doing shit like this. Antagonizing someone who you have given leverage is a bad idea and honestly you should be thankful that I don't exercise this without warning.

But this is the last one. Disagree about whatever you like, but stop trying to use these emotional tactics with me. Don't tell me how I feel. You have exerted the limit of my patience for them.

Jeez dude, why are you getting so riled up? “This is your final warning” lmao. Is this your way of winning arguments? By posting their private information?

Also, what the fuck are “emotional tactics?” Either you are extremely sensitive or Stan is using some kind of MKultra shit on you. And I don’t think Stan is a CIA agent.

@Stan stop being a pussy and call Lemmingwise a slur.

By the way Stan, why the fuck would you give personal information to a random dude on kiwi farms?

 

[Stan]

There is no point in anyone attempting to convince a holocaust denier that it happened.

They are here on this forum because regular society, academics and sane people in general can’t stomach their ignorance.

Good luck. You’ll need oodles of it.

Thank you, that's very good advice.