Son of Sparda 84
kiwifarms.net
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Because I don't care for it and just listen to the Original version
Team Four Star - Creators of a bunch of stuff to make people laugh trying to figure out what to do after a decade of comedically retelling Dragon Ball Z.
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Random Internet Person
kiwifarms.net
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Eh, I thought it was worth mentioning.
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- Mar 21, 2019
I will say that Super accomplished a few things fanfic writers and failed continuations (GT) didn't. Beerus himself is kind of dumb, but by dropping a massive gap between Goku and the top levels of the universe, it puts a damper on the power creep. Pre-Super it was a meme that all the so-called gods of their universe were ants in front of Goku and other earthlings. From Battle of Gods onward, and especially Super, they put in an insurmountable gap fitting of their position. It also opened up a multiverse, which allowed for a huge amount of exploration and new characters for Goku to challenge.
It unfortunately dumped most of that into the garbage with the hugely unnecessary and pointless Tournament of Power arc. Instead of leaving the universes a mystery, we get a basic idea of what most of the universes are like (unless they pull a multi-multiverse) including all of the destruction gods and angels, and a scale of power for each one. The Universe 6 arc has a specific out where Champa doesn't seek out the strongest himself, just sends Vados out with a vague 'GO GET ME THE PEOPLE YOU THINK WOULD BE BEST FOR THIS!!!!' order, so there's plenty room for there to be better fighters in U6. Top's universe, though, is basically ruined. They have two destruction god level fighters, so it's preposterous to assume there's anything else interesting to be mined in that universe. The best they have is Jiren, man with no personality and a Saitama routine. There's still a lot of potential for exploration and new stories, though, if only they stop it with the waste of tournament sagas. Tournament sagas traditionally also only introduce one or two characters and then use established ones + fluff characters for the rest, while Super's tournaments filled out almost all the ranks with new characters. It's like they decided to go read Dragonball Multiverse and adapt that into canon, but with a bunch of OCs instead of AU versions of the same characters. (They even had 'Namek who was all of the Namekians put together' and 'Broly but stronger' in it, and arguably the 'beautiful universe', which are all prominent figures in DBM)
'Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan' technically wasn't an official name, iirc, they never properly named it in the movie, it just debuted with that name in the Xenoverse DLC. Then the manga mocked it (the tongue twister scene where Goku eventually bites his tongue trying to say it) and renamed it 'Blue'.
S-Cells are inarguably terrible, though. I guess that was set up from Goten and Trunks turning super for no reason as small children. On the flip side, though, it's very enjoyable to see Vegeta interact with other (subservient) Saiyans. His bond with Cabba is nice. One could argue that Vegeta's character arc (and to a lesser extent 17's) is one of the best parts of the show, considering how far he's come from the beginning of Z to the end of Super, when he sacrifices himself without hesitation so that someone else can get the glory and people unconnected to him will be rescued. (compared to Goku who caused that universe to be endangered in the first place because of his selfishness)
I would normally say that they should skip Battle of Gods and RoF because the movies already covered them, but since removing them leaves barely anything that isn't a tournament arc, I'd just say instead that they should cut down on the filler. Shorten the Goku v Frieza fight, cut out the Ginyu thing (that's pretty unforgivable, since he was only alive in filler and already was dealt with in filler) and shorten the Beerus fight. Those dragged on obnoxiously long, or in Ginyu's case totally through power scaling out of wack.
I actually didn't mind Zamasu, because it tackles the thing that Z had been afraid of approaching - "What if the villain ever succeeded in wishing for immortality?" - and Zeno wasn't required to kill Zamasu, Beerus said he could have done so, he just couldn't go there and do it because it'd have gotten him in hot water to participate in all that timeline tomfoolery. He killed the one in his timeline (who I kind of feel bad for; dude was just seething about mortals on his own and some random mortal pops up and humiliates him into a homicidal rage and then a cat erases him from existence. Poor Zamawasn't) and so his job was done. Whis could only go do the thing later because the Zeno in that timeline was gone and Zeno Prime was cool with it. They also demonstrate that the Mafuba would have worked, if not for Goku screwing it up.
Though, ultimately, the whole arc was really supposed to be about Trunk, Supreme Kai Shin, and setting up the Xenoverse onward stuff. The anime adaption feels awkward because it insisted on trying to make the story focus on Goku and Vegeta, when they really had bit parts in it, while Trunks, Shin, and Gowasu were the stars of the show.
Oh, there's plenty to abridge, but you can see all the content that isn't Goku being stupid about trying to get stronger than ever is about dragging all those 'irrelevant' people back to competitive levels. Piccolo is treated as if he's only a step behind the main duo, and Gohan only half a step (only further because he's out of practice), while in the Buu saga Piccolo was basically just there if anyone of any notable power was around. He was primarily a teacher because he couldn't do anything else. Comparing Piccolo in Super who had significant parts in the tournaments with Piccolo in Z who stood and passively watched Gotenks v Piccolo and only provided Super Buu with cleverness when eaten. And 17 + 18, whose infinite power sources were completely forgotten in Buu era (18 is a helpless waif most of the arc, and throws her tournament entry for a bribe) are transformed into key fighters who could hold their own against some of the most powerful people in the multiverse purely because they had literally infinite supplies of energy.
Power levels always have been a joke, and literally designed to be wrong, but somehow people have embraced them like they're accurate forever more. I hear in the manga they use something else now called 'battle power' that's 'more accurate', and I hate it. Anything using a number system to gauge power is either going to take the fun out of battle by making it by the numbers (and fuel fanwank forever more) or make it intentionally wrong like power levels were and make it a useless system (that fuels incorrect fanwank forever more)
TFS were all Berniebros. Before the primaries were done, they were all sharing Bernie's scathing comments about her, infographics about the Clinton Body Count, her corruption scandals, her defending the guy who raped the 12 year old, the 'bimbo explosions' and tweeting derisively at and about Hillary. As soon as she became the candidate they went silent on the matter and would only either say 'she's better than Trump', or 'I said my piece on Hillary already, there's nothing more to say'.
Maybe it works better if you're primed for it by seeing Gohan say it originally earlier.
I like their music mixes. It's a mix between Bruce's iconic tunes and Kaiser's insistence on the Japanese tracks, and both their Gohan and Trunks themes are improvements on the otherwise boring JP tracks.
Random Internet Person
kiwifarms.net
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- Jun 28, 2019
Interesting, I just thought it was worth pointing out because some have said that the Cell saga was the point where DBZA became a full on fan dub (if abridging isn’t that already) and covering a song in English and doing a metal version of it would qualify as evidence.
Compare that to another iconic moment in the Dragon Ball franchise:
You think it’s safe to say comedy took a back seat by the time Cell rolled around?
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- Mar 21, 2019
As mentioned before, they definitely went more comedy fandub than parody by the time Cell rolled in, but that was less because they decided they wanted to be a fandub and more because they were pathetic Cell fanboys. The movies that happened during that time, including Broly, were their usual fare. Trunks' history was something of an exception, where they straddled the line between serious fandub and parody by playing with all the time travel tropes/music and being silly except in the really serious moments, but Trunks is also one of - if not the - favorite characters by Kaiser. I submit the death of Cell as proof that they weren't trying to make a humorous fandub so much as they were massive farting fanboys of Cell. Rather than either humorously or seriously depict Cell's death (which is a shame, because the overdramatic "It can't be....I'm....perfecccctttt" thing from the dub is very parody-able) they cut to a Cell rendition of "My Way", which didn't even have humorously changed lyrics, just the normal ones as sung by Taka-as-Cell.
Their claim was 'Cell saga is just too dark to make funny' but honestly you could say the same of Frieza or Buu if you overthink it the way they did Cell. They were Cell fanboys, and the love-letter to their favorite saga took precedence over humor. Sometimes that worked, like the excellent Final Flash scene that was basically just 'the original done with less corny lines' (they actually recorded the original lines and almost used them, but swapped them out at the last second) and other times, like Gohan ss2 v Cell, people can't help but notice it's more of a fandub than a parody.
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It's at this point less of a joke and more of a dead horse.
TL;DR: Beerus is a one-dimensional character who works best as a forgettable filler villain, but becomes in terms of storytelling a cancerous liability when added to the regular cast like for example in Resurrection F where he sucked out the tension of any fight. Toriyama retconning Frieza into having always been Berrus' bitch (as if Dragon Ball Minus wasn't bad enough) didn't help matters too. @capitalBBustard and I hardly agree on Dragon Ball, but he was spot on regarding Beerus.
It's not the name that's problematic, it's the fact that we have yet another Super Saiyan transformation.
Super in in my opinion was in its entirety not completely irredeemable and it was a solid 3/10. Dragon Ball Super had its ups, but for most part it had the Down's.
On the whole e-tardfight regarding Japanese OST vs. dub soundtrack, I actually sympathise with Kaiser. The Japanese composer Kenji Yamamoto has a good taste in music if the songs he plagiarised are anything to go by.
Random Internet Person
kiwifarms.net
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My Way, huh? Well, here's that rendition for the record:
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- Mar 21, 2019
I forgive Beerus because I like Whis and the concept of the Angels, but ultimately I hate the massive retconning they had to build around Beerus. They should have committed to 'He's been asleep all this time and only old fogies like Elder Kai remember him' like with Buu, instead of skirting around the edge of canon and being stuck with 'oh, Shenron knows him, he interacted with the Saiyans, he bullied Frieza, etc' just NO. Stop that. Since they also unlocked the heavenly ranks and the multiverse, they didn't really need to try to integrate Beerus that much, because he's explicitly meant not to be endgame, unlike Frieza, Cell, and Buu. That said, I hate the Frieza wank that's been going on since RoF, too. Just admit you have egg on your face because you overhyped Frieza compared to what came next, don't try to come up with excuses about how he's totally still scary. (Especially when they still try to juggle with Buu, who's much more interesting as a potential ally because he's basically literally invincible, and just keep scumming their way around it by making Buu sleep through everything important after Beerus initially spanked him)
I'll also defend SSG/SSB just because it was made with the explicit qualification that it was designed to be a more flexible transformation that superseded and side-stepped the forever multiplying levels. SSG/SSB is better than the absolutely ridiculous SS4 of GT, and IMO also better than SS3. In practice, Goku, Vegeta, and Gohan spend most of their time either base level or just SS1 in Super, rather than constantly flexing their SSpeen and jumping to whatever max level they can handle each fight (which Gotenks practically became a parody of, when he just jumped to SS3 for no reason and almost exclusively fought that way). There's not even a name for the level Vegeta reaches near the end of the Tournament of Power (unofficially it's just called 'Super Saiyan Bluer') because rather than a proper transformation it seems to just be 'even more divine ki unlocked in the same form', and likewise Ultra Instinct isn't a true transformation, just a fighting style (that nevertheless somehow increases fighting power because complicated math equations meme) - and so....eh....
To be honest, I don't really defend Super as it is, but that it's built up a solid enough foundation - with a few flaws, mostly surrounding Beerus, that the anime devoted significant portions of run time trying to fix - for future dragonball works to build off of, and maybe most importantly just incinerated the objectively terrible end of Z (and by extension GT) by de-canonizing it. GT by comparison just crapped all over the place and made a terrible mess that no one could even hope to salvage and make a good sequel with. The best things you could make from GT would still be handicapped by being stuck with the terrible garbage shoved into GT.
I lean more toward Bruce than Kenji. There's some stand outs like Day of Fate, but most are too sleepy for Dragonball, while Bruce's are more iconic and atmospheric. Incidentally, the other songs they released as 'singles' are remixes. The Father-Son Kamehameha track is a combination of the Japanese track, Piccolo's Sacrifice, and Gohan's Pain, and I think a touch of Perfect Cell's theme - a mix of Bruce and Kenji's scores, and Trunks' theme song that plays in Trunks v Perfect Cell is actually a remix from one of the older DBZ video games patched in with the original. So, basically, even the Kenji tracks people liked in DBZA were not truly his tracks, they were remixes often combined with Bruce's tracks.
Son of Sparda 84
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starborn427614
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Not that bad. Makes me sad we'll never get a Super adaptation with that Beerus voice though.
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- Mar 9, 2019
starborn427614
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Jesus Christ I hate the early DB Super art style.
Random Internet Person
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Seems Kaiser is working to teach people his stuff.
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- Apr 5, 2019
To be fair, Kaiser has gotten really good at it. Makes sense to spread that knowledge.
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- Jan 16, 2019
TFS was always a weird thing for me, like the 1st and 2nd season of DBZA is def something I enjoyed, S3 is where it kinda started to tank somewhat (then again so was DBZ at this point), AoT was just a trainwreck from the start to finish and Hellsing Abridged was just...weird...like it when it had a joke that works it was actually a laugh-worthy, but more often a good portion of jokes just tanked and they tanked super fucking hard. So, anyway, these guys had apparently a commentary stream on Hellsing Abridged and honestly, the most hilarious part was them apologizing for every "dark" and "edgy" joke they made during the series run. Seriously, the thing was some embarrassing that even some of their own fans were calling them out on this shit.
Random Internet Person
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I'd say AOT Abridged was fine. That just got hit HARD by rights holders, probably harder than what Toei does.
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- Jan 16, 2019
I dunno, maybe I wasn't in the right state of mind for it. But every joke in AOT Abridged made me cringe on the same level as Family Guy's "comedy" makes me cringe.
Burntglove
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Hellsing started very strong, I thought, but only because they went all out on their version of Alucard and gave him all of the best jokes. Which was a mistake given that he's basically gone for the middle portion of that arc, and I don't think I've ever gone back to those episodes ever since they aired. And then, by the time they brought him back, the damage was done and I'd lost interest.
I think it's a bit of a microcosm of their work. They start off doing straight up parody, and then get bored with that, come up with some excuse about the source material not fitting parody (which is bullshit) and it warps into something that resembles less a satire and more a rewrite with ill-fitting jokes thrown in.
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- Jan 16, 2019
Because by this point it pretty much turns into fanfic with badly shoehorned jokes. But, it's not like this was new for them during their Cell saga they pretty much started acting like they were legit scriptwriters, it's actually kinda funny how one of their guys (who I think did the voice for ANderson), dipped out because he wanted TFS to be more "serious" and tackle important topics and yet they claimed they wanna make "parodies". There's also them making claims how their Episode 2 of HUA was "the darkest" they've ever written..fuckin' really?
Jimmy Durante's Ballsack
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- May 21, 2019
If Team Four Star isn't going to finish Cell Saga, then Team Four Star has no reason to continue existing.