Tabletop Roleplaying Games (D&D, Pathfinder, CoC, ETC.)

[Mr. Manchester]

They will be fugitives, commanding their own ship (which they received only about an hour before the tribunal) thus ending the main campaign storyline (no tears shed there on my part) and I don't really have a good module or other content source to draw from to weave a story from there. Any ideas what I could use to have them flee into a new, appropriate (given their status as fugitives, wanted by the crown) setting?

Fugitives on a ship sounds like a fantastic game. So much stuff to do on a boat.

They'll need to have a bounty on their heads from the kingdom so you can send cool bounty hunters after them. At that point you can just come up with whatever NPC idea you want and boom, encounter for the party to deal with.

Could have them escape to a pirate cove and make friends with pirates then just toss in all the stuff that goes with that (bonus points if most of them are chaotic evil but still nice to the party). An enemy kingdom could reach out to them and pay them to be privateers, which means they might get ransomed back to said enemy kingdom if they get caught (and were good enough at their job). Probably rumors about lost treasures too. You know, pirate stuff. If you get sick of pirate stuff just have them get lost in your version of the Bermuda Triangle.

Other things off the top of my head that has to do with the ocean include fighting Vikings and going on Norse adventures after earning their respect, getting cursed by a magical sea thing (hag, weird mermaid queen, kraken overlord) so they have to breathe underwater and go adventure at the bottom of the sea, crash their ship on a mysterious island, have their ship get stuck in ice so they have to find food and it turns into Mountains of Madness and of course you can drop them in a fantasy version of Free Willy since they like breaking stuff out of jail so much.

If your group is anything like mine I'm sure they will be eager to ignore all of those adventure hooks and decide the most land locked area on your map is where they should go. That's when you send them to Barovia.

 

[Ghostse]

If your group is anything like mine I'm sure they will be eager to ignore all of those adventure hooks and decide the most land locked area on your map is where they should go. That's when you send them to Barovia.

QFT.

 

[Snekposter]

I had cool backgrounds and shit, because I always assumed the PC's had a certain 'spark' that NPC's didn't that let them rise in power so quickly.

@Jet Fuel Johnny Quote bug, sadly.

Yeah, that's cool and all, but what if I want to play some dude with PTSD from hunting down rats in a city's sewer?

"EDDIE, THERE'S SOME LOVELY FILTH DOWN HERE!"

Which is ironic, because the guys in Monty Python were massive history buffs and knew exactly how peasants did and didn't live, which is why that whole scene is hilarious. Whole movie, really, because you need to know your subject matter to be able to parody it. That random dude with the scar on his face who gets shanked by Lancelot for the crime of guarding the base of the prince's tower is probably the most historically-dressed person in any sort of non-documentary Medieval film.

 

[Judge Dredd]

Apologies in advance for the autism and possible derail.

I've wanted to run a post apocalypse game for a long time, but for various reasons it's looking like that will never happen. I want to share my ideas and see what you guys think.

Spoiler: The idea

The game would've taken inspiration from the likes of Mad Max and Fallout, but with urban environments instead of desert.

The exact cause of the apocalypse isn't important, but if asked I was going to say World War 3. Nuclear, chemical, and biological weapons have created the various monsters and mutants that are in the wasteland.

The PCs are normal people who have to take part in a road trip to recover some MacGuffin. When they reach it, they learn that it isn't an object but a person that they have to escort back to start or to some other location with the military chasing them.

The game would've been a hex or point crawl with a focus on the road trip and resource management. To cut down on book keeping, scavenging would've had a single generic resource. Maybe two if I wanted players to make tough choices about where to raid.

Highways would've been the fastest, most direct rout but backroads would have had more scavenging opportunities. Enemies would've been the usual fare for such settings. Bandits, zombies, mutants, giant insects, that kind of thing.

That all sounds a bit generic, which might be why no one was interested. Maybe if I added magic or psionics it might have got more interest, but I didn't want to ruin the tone.

 

[Ghostse]

Apologies in advance for the autism and possible derail.

I've wanted to run a post apocalypse game for a long time, but for various reasons it's looking like that will never happen. I want to share my ideas and see what you guys think.

Spoiler: The idea

The game would've taken inspiration from the likes of Mad Max and Fallout, but with urban environments instead of desert.

The exact cause of the apocalypse isn't important, but if asked I was going to say World War 3. Nuclear, chemical, and biological weapons have created the various monsters and mutants that are in the wasteland.

The PCs are normal people who have to take part in a road trip to recover some MacGuffin. When they reach it, they learn that it isn't an object but a person that they have to escort back to start or to some other location with the military chasing them.

The game would've been a hex or point crawl with a focus on the road trip and resource management. To cut down on book keeping, scavenging would've had a single generic resource. Maybe two if I wanted players to make tough choices about where to raid.

Highways would've been the fastest, most direct rout but backroads would have had more scavenging opportunities. Enemies would've been the usual fare for such settings. Bandits, zombies, mutants, giant insects, that kind of thing.

That all sounds a bit generic, which might be why no one was interested. Maybe if I added magic or psionics it might have got more interest, but I didn't want to ruin the tone.

Spoiler

You're maybe asking the wrong person, I don't like anything with firearms or otherwise an abundance of ranged weaponry, so mad max sort of things are out.

1) Nothing you've given me so far is hooking me. There's nothing in the setting to get me excited, but again talking to the wrong person.
2) Hex crawl with resource management usually means a spergy GM and long periods of sessions being autistic point counting; "post apocalyptic pig farmers". I'm assuming that's not the case, but you need to de-emphasize. Maybe try to pitch it as Post-apoc oregon trail.

My advice for the setting:
I've always wanted to do a full techno-barbarism fantasy; literally "Magic has been replaced by science". Things have degraded so far that battles are back to being fought with pikes, but every king has that heirloom laser gattling gun just in case the peasants get too uppity. But it wasn't an equal degradation, so you have enclaves that abandoned computers for a WWII era technology level that held out longer, so maybe traditional arms are more common, but still very rare.
One of my favorite ways around the "world is a fuck" setting is dont' have it set on earth, have it set on a colony. Economy is based on trade with the space men from earth who give zero fucks about the natives; hell, maybe its economy was and everything's just gone to shit now that earth has decided the colony wasn't worth keeping running.
A few "off-the-books" trade missions by grey-marketers keeps a very short supply of spare parts flowing in.

Anyway, my other advice, and I don't know where you'd find a good system for it, would be lean into madmax and the cars. Sort of like battletech, only cars instead of mechs. Have your battles taking place at 50mph over desert highways, you customize your vehicle and everything is based around keeping topped off.

If you combo all this shit, you have Oregon Trail meets Mad Max, where the party has highway battles with raiders, mutants, and mutant raiders - both the driver and the gunner fight with road battles becoming mixed tactical battles to repel boarders. You can't just go all in on driving, because you got to make stops at training posts and if you look like an easy mark, they'll kill you at the pump.

The party is willing to undertake this suicide mission because the reward is a ticket off world.

Also while the Nips have the most retarded stories, they have some real creative ideas you can steal. The world was ended by giant cannibalist mutants that were used as WMDs, as well as a bunch of other shit like zombie plague bombs. Hell, toss in an asteroid strike for good measure.

Maybe the war was triggered by the fact there was an asteroid about to hit the planet, and there was some limited resource needed to get to space both sides went to war to control. In the aftermath, when the elites escaped on their ships, everyone just kept shooting to try to get to the shelters. Everyone still alive is descendants of the schmucks left to fend for themselves and too tough to die.

Or maybe the asteroid hasn't hit yet, and your party now has a very visible ticking timer.

 

[JJLiautaud]

So my table just transferred from a rime of the frost maiden to planescape which is neat, basically someone put a portable hole in a bag of holding to defeat a midtier boss and pulled us all into the Astral plane then we got kidnapped by githyanki slavers, we're going to the sigil, probably.

 

[Wormy]

Which is ironic, because the guys in Monty Python were massive history buffs and knew exactly how peasants did and didn't live, which is why that whole scene is hilarious. Whole movie, really, because you need to know your subject matter to be able to parody it. That random dude with the scar on his face who gets shanked by Lancelot for the crime of guarding the base of the prince's tower is probably the most historically-dressed person in any sort of non-documentary Medieval film.

Oh I know, hence why the brief clip of one peasant just rolling around in the mud makes me belly laugh to this day.

That all sounds a bit generic, which might be why no one was interested. Maybe if I added magic or psionics it might have got more interest, but I didn't want to ruin the tone.

Reminds me; I always wanted to at least try a post-apoc setting where instead of rusted/ruined wastelands, it instead is much the opposite; overgrowth, massive plants, vegetation is abundant, but the new flora and fauna has evolved to fight off new, far more pissed off variations of animal life (mainly by loads of plant life now being incredibly poisonous). Neither is good for the scant humans who survived the extinction event. If the animals don't get you, eating the wrong leaf just might.

Less of the usual Mad Max desolation, more bio-punk/bio-horror.

 

[Gingervitis]

Which is ironic, because the guys in Monty Python were massive history buffs and knew exactly how peasants did and didn't live, which is why that whole scene is hilarious. Whole movie, really, because you need to know your subject matter to be able to parody it. That random dude with the scar on his face who gets shanked by Lancelot for the crime of guarding the base of the prince's tower is probably the most historically-dressed person in any sort of non-documentary Medieval film.

Since we’re on the topic, are there any books you would recommend for learning more about medieval Europe?

t. American Public School graduate

 

[Snekposter]

Since we’re on the topic, are there any books you would recommend for learning more about medieval Europe?

t. American Public School graduate

Honestly? Go play Kingdom Come: Deliverance. The devs included a fuck-massive codex filled with info on everything from agriculture and diet to canonical law to the actual events and people you're dealing with, and aside from that, the actual gameplay world is surprisingly accurate.

Naturally, a few liberties are taken because you are the Big Damn Hero, but not as many as you'd think. Okay, the fact you can charm the bathhouse women into giving you a bath, laundry service, and a happy ending all for free is just utter nonsense but I'll allow it for obvious reasons.

 

[Duiker]

Apologies in advance for the autism and possible derail.

I've wanted to run a post apocalypse game for a long time, but for various reasons it's looking like that will never happen. I want to share my ideas and see what you guys think.

Spoiler: The idea

The game would've taken inspiration from the likes of Mad Max and Fallout, but with urban environments instead of desert.

The exact cause of the apocalypse isn't important, but if asked I was going to say World War 3. Nuclear, chemical, and biological weapons have created the various monsters and mutants that are in the wasteland.

The PCs are normal people who have to take part in a road trip to recover some MacGuffin. When they reach it, they learn that it isn't an object but a person that they have to escort back to start or to some other location with the military chasing them.

The game would've been a hex or point crawl with a focus on the road trip and resource management. To cut down on book keeping, scavenging would've had a single generic resource. Maybe two if I wanted players to make tough choices about where to raid.

Highways would've been the fastest, most direct rout but backroads would have had more scavenging opportunities. Enemies would've been the usual fare for such settings. Bandits, zombies, mutants, giant insects, that kind of thing.

That all sounds a bit generic, which might be why no one was interested. Maybe if I added magic or psionics it might have got more interest, but I didn't want to ruin the tone.

I like the idea, but instead of an npc they must help, what about the realization that each if them is the source of a vaccine. Then the whole team has reason to get to the far away destination, plus it gives you leeway if a character dies, and you dont have to manage an npc that might take 'screentime' away from the players.

Got a system? You could try out the Nemesis system. Their one-roll engine could be useful for the scavenging mechanic. (Basically, one roll of a several d10s give you two variables. How well the task was done and how fast.)

 

[Duiker]

Oh I know, hence why the brief clip of one peasant just rolling around in the mud makes me belly laugh to this day.


Reminds me; I always wanted to at least try a post-apoc setting where instead of rusted/ruined wastelands, it instead is much the opposite; overgrowth, massive plants, vegetation is abundant, but the new flora and fauna has evolved to fight off new, far more pissed off variations of animal life (mainly by loads of plant life now being incredibly poisonous). Neither is good for the scant humans who survived the extinction event. If the animals don't get you, eating the wrong leaf just might.

Less of the usual Mad Max desolation, more bio-punk/bio-horror.

Look up Summerland. Its a Green apocalypse. Everything is overgrown and fog is everywhere. The players are the few who can travel between settlements and not get lost or go crazy.

 

[ZMOT]

That's straight out of the old 1E DMG, man.

Good to see the spirit of "The ghouls ate your ass" still lives.

even worse, abomination vaults is a megadungeon, wandering off on your own is bad enough, going deeper alone makes you a candidate for a darwin award (also every encounter is designed for 4 PCs, so unless the DM accommodates her and changes it on the fly that's another bad idea)

I doubt that. Star Wars is already losing money. No one cares about capeshit any more. My own player pool has dried up as they move on to other things like Dark Tide and catching up with Armored Core.

look at the effect of luke showing up for 5 minutes had, or how people liked andor (justified or not). 7 years after TFA and it's still not completely dead. a proper not-shit movie would probably pull back quite a few people.
dnd would go on even longer because good luck convincing the lazy consoomers to play literally anything else (more likely they gonna stop playing altogether since it's not the hip cool thing anymore, only to come back when it is again).

I mean, yeah, all of that, but those are support abilities. At the end of the day, its a mounted class that relies on the fact that it has a mount for combat, with a good chunk of its class features focused on your mount. Which is why I said that the archetypes that specifically forgo the mount in favor of something else are the best archetypes, because they allow you to do all of that that you just mentioned, while not having to rely on your mount for combat. So your character can still do all the other "cavalier things" without having the cavalier's most glaring weakness.

so why would you take it into a dungeon? pf2 has an investigator class, but playing one in a wilderness hexcrawl is probably a bit shabby.
at least with a mounted class you could retool it depending on your race to be a goblin on a hog or something.

I mean I get the sentiment, a generalist class with always win out in the end because it works "best" in "most" cases, and lot of people like to crawl up their ass with "if it's 1% worse it's completely shit, unusable and you're a retard for picking it". less of a TTRPG issue since it's mostly cooperative and there's enough room for it, but a lot of (5e) shitters like to drag their meta-faggotry into it (in general, don't mean you). ofc that always existed, but feels like these days lot of them are armchair-theorycrafters who can only look at numbers. I even prefer the hardcore casual normie to those, at least those still know how to have fun.

 

[Jet Fuel Johnny]

Yeah, that's cool and all, but what if I want to play some dude with PTSD from hunting down rats in a city's sewer?

Might I suggest roll20.net

Yeah, I did that for a while, those games can be fun, but I go for adventure now. :-)

 

[Mr. Manchester]

Apologies in advance for the autism and possible derail.

I've wanted to run a post apocalypse game for a long time, but for various reasons it's looking like that will never happen. I want to share my ideas and see what you guys think.

Spoiler: The idea

The game would've taken inspiration from the likes of Mad Max and Fallout, but with urban environments instead of desert.

The exact cause of the apocalypse isn't important, but if asked I was going to say World War 3. Nuclear, chemical, and biological weapons have created the various monsters and mutants that are in the wasteland.

The PCs are normal people who have to take part in a road trip to recover some MacGuffin. When they reach it, they learn that it isn't an object but a person that they have to escort back to start or to some other location with the military chasing them.

The game would've been a hex or point crawl with a focus on the road trip and resource management. To cut down on book keeping, scavenging would've had a single generic resource. Maybe two if I wanted players to make tough choices about where to raid.

Highways would've been the fastest, most direct rout but backroads would have had more scavenging opportunities. Enemies would've been the usual fare for such settings. Bandits, zombies, mutants, giant insects, that kind of thing.

That all sounds a bit generic, which might be why no one was interested. Maybe if I added magic or psionics it might have got more interest, but I didn't want to ruin the tone.

I wouldn't worry about it being a generic setting because of all the freedom you have in-between. Strangely enough I was reading old Judge Dredd comics and went through the arc where they drove across the country to Mega City 2 to deliver a vaccine for some mutant plague and it was rife with game ideas. Fuck I'll take a generic setting with elves and dwarves and hobbits every day of my life, still haven't ran out of stories with that.

The exact cause of the apocalypse should be in the back of your head. Keep it as a mystery though. I'm playing in a similar game and we've found out that there's been at least four apocalyptic events. Strangely enough automation has caused most of the major corporations to survive, so Walmart and McDonalds are a thing. One of our treasures (which we chose) as the entire Wikipedia article for McDonalds. Turns out the last CEO realized the world was about the be fucked and floored his automated machine prices to near 0 so survivors could eat.

Rough to start as normal people but it works. In Dungeon Crawl Classics they have you start with 4 normal people each and expect 3 of them to die. I've played this out a couple of times and I think its a way of thinking that never quite worked for me. Consider letting them be a little cooler.

Do cool shit with highways. Old highway Americana is a neat theme and you shouldn't ignore it. Have the biggest ball of radioactive twine and weird road side restaurants that serve ham hawks off of a regenerating pig. People eat that shit up.

Going back to the apocalypse game I play in, it all starts with my friend talking to another friend about his idea to base a game off of Rimworld. Never played the game but friend 2 was going on about how it would never work and how it would be impossible to capture that feel. He sent me a message about it half laughing half complaining about our mutual friend's objections. I told him to ask a couple of other old friends and he went ahead and made a little separate chat.

"Do you guys want to play in a weird post apocalyptic game?" He asked.

The first response was, "Can I play a mongoloid?"

That game is close to having 100 sessions under it's belt, but honestly we've all lost count. Could go on and on about the grand adventures that take place in Mutants and Mongoloids.

 

[Alabama Gamer]

Wanted to share some of my table's experiences with Hell's Vengeance, because they've been thoroughly great. Maybe it's because we went into it with the right mindset (it's a Lawful Evil campaign with a very heavy emphasis on the Lawful part), but we haven't had any of the problems with it that people talk about sometimes. We're on Book Two right now, which is about a city that has been "liberated" by the crusade against Cheliax called the Glorious Reclamation. The party, having distinguished itself by previously squashing rebellious sentiments in a town, is sent in to run counterrevolutionary glowops. I've played various campaigns with these guys for going on two years now, and HV has forced us to be the cleverest we've ever been.

Spoiler: Spoilers for Book 2

For a start, we ran into problems because one of our number is a tyrant-archetype antipaladin, and literally glows to any paladin or good outsider within sixty feet of him. We constructed an elaborate cover story about him being a tyrant of Abadar (which, though rare, are both possible mechanically and show up in at least one AP) from Sargava, which in the 1e lore is still Fantasy Sewth Effrica. Sargava is also where the remnants of House Davian fled after they lost the Chelish Civil War, so his ostensible reason for coming to support the Glorious Reclamation is that he's part of a circle of Davian restorationists. The local franchise of the crusade is desperate to build a wide-ranging anti-Thrune front, so with the backing of a member of the town council who is secretly our contact in the city, he is begrudgingly tolerated. My character is an imp with a few class levels in UnRogue (long story), so through a combination of his unique skillset and us making contact with the faceless stalker community fairly early we've been able to pull off a whole lot of ingenious shenanigans. From killing an entire PoW camp garrison in one round by getting them to form up for inspection and then planting a fireball in the middle of the formation, to comprehensively framing the harbormaster with a criminal past for the murder of an Inquisitor who made the fatal mistake of trying to arrest one of us without backup, to committing a magical terrorist attack in the middle of a busy market while every known member of the party was across town diligently having an airtight alibi, we are just about the biggest-brained glowniggers in the country.

 

[Judge Dredd]

If you combo all this shit, you have Oregon Trail meets Mad Max, where the party has highway battles with raiders, mutants, and mutant raiders - both the driver and the gunner fight with road battles becoming mixed tactical battles to repel boarders. You can't just go all in on driving, because you got to make stops at training posts and if you look like an easy mark, they'll kill you at the pump.

That was the plan. I wanted something more grounded than RIFTs, but Mad Max (and Fallout to a lesser extent) offers limited stories due to being all sand, bandits, and the occasional ruin.

Got a system?

I was going to use Savage Worlds. Hell of Earth is their post apocalypse setting and there was a lot of rules I could steal, and I could hack together some rules for vehicle combat and boarders.

more likely they gonna stop playing altogether since it's not the hip cool thing anymore, only to come back when it is again

I think that's already happened and is why my player pool has dried up. I know most people blame Critical Roll, but I think it was more Stranger Things and other shows that made DnD popular, and the players have dried up once those shows had faded from memory.

The first response was, "Can I play a mongoloid?"

When I first pitched the game to my group years ago, one of the players immediately said that he didn't want his character to have a vehicle and would have to ride with other people.

I like the idea, but instead of an npc they must help, what about the realization that each if them is the source of a vaccine. Then the whole team has reason to get to the far away destination, plus it gives you leeway if a character dies, and you dont have to manage an npc that might take 'screentime' away from the players.

I was going to have the NPC be a "vaccine" or "cure" they go searching for, but I like this idea of the PCs secretly being the vaccine, though why would they not be told this up front? One of inspirations for the game was Blue Gender. Not a another Twitter pronoun, but an anime I saw a few episodes for years ago. A man is frozen to find a cure for an illness, and when he's thawed out the world has been taken over by giant insects and humans live in orbit.

@Ghostse's idea of an asteroid is kind of similar to Rage, a game I was ripping off inspired by. I was adamant that the PCs be normal people in contrast to the mutants and super soldiers I'd have later, but on reflection maybe Rage had the right idea of having the PCs be super human.

 

[Snekposter]

Might I suggest roll20.net

Yeah, I did that for a while, those games can be fun, but I go for adventure now. :-)

Very funny. Mostly because he'd be out adventuring because anything's better than fighting rats. I'd play him up as no different from a 'Nam vet driven to psychotic rage by the horrors he endured crawling through tunnels rooting out God knows what.

 

[Jet Fuel Johnny]

Very funny. Mostly because he'd be out adventuring because anything's better than fighting rats. I'd play him up as no different from a 'Nam vet driven to psychotic rage by the horrors he endured crawling through tunnels rooting out God knows what.

Oh, well, NOW we're talking.

Let's see, bonuses: Blindfight for free. I'll give you the ability to fight in close quarters without penalty. Sewers often have kobolds and goblins in then, so I'll let you be able to read their markers. If you take -2 to Str I'll let you bump your Dex or Con up by 2, max of 18.

See, this is the kind of bargaining I'm fine with. This is the kind of background I'm fine with.

Dude was a sewer "rat" killer for a major city. He's even seen a Gibbering Mouther once and helped harvest 'buds' off of otyughs to move them to other sewage pools.

TA-DAH! Excellent PC. 8/10!

 

[Snekposter]

Oh, well, NOW we're talking.

Let's see, bonuses: Blindfight for free. I'll give you the ability to fight in close quarters without penalty. Sewers often have kobolds and goblins in then, so I'll let you be able to read their markers. If you take -2 to Str I'll let you bump your Dex or Con up by 2, max of 18.

See, this is the kind of bargaining I'm fine with. This is the kind of background I'm fine with.

Dude was a sewer "rat" killer for a major city. He's even seen a Gibbering Mouther once and helped harvest 'buds' off of otyughs to move them to other sewage pools.

TA-DAH! Excellent PC. 8/10!

See? I thought you knew me better than that to assume I'd just play generic NPC #587.

Keep in mind I'd also have him a drow refugee kicked to the sewer patrol because fuck drow and he's used to it anyways, so he's naturally pissed about getting shat on because of his race and has left the city out of spite because fuck rats, fuck goblins, fuck all that. He may have no end of mental and physical scars from being forced to fend off nasty shit with no real help, but now its time for him to become the thing that goes bump in the darkness. No more screaming about hordes of dire rats coming out of the goddamn walls... he's the one coming out of the goddamn walls on a quest for bloody vengeance against everything that lives under the Earth.

Probably roll up some sort of Rogue with a heavy emphasis on using items like firebombs and traps because how else is one man elf supposed to take on all these things?

Just remember... they drew first blood. Not him.

 

[Capsaicin Addict]

so why would you take it into a dungeon? pf2 has an investigator class, but playing one in a wilderness hexcrawl is probably a bit shabby.
at least with a mounted class you could retool it depending on your race to be a goblin on a hog or something.

I mean I get the sentiment, a generalist class with always win out in the end because it works "best" in "most" cases, and lot of people like to crawl up their ass with "if it's 1% worse it's completely shit, unusable and you're a retard for picking it". less of a TTRPG issue since it's mostly cooperative and there's enough room for it, but a lot of (5e) shitters like to drag their meta-faggotry into it (in general, don't mean you). ofc that always existed, but feels like these days lot of them are armchair-theorycrafters who can only look at numbers. I even prefer the hardcore casual normie to those, at least those still know how to have fun.

There are two problems here.

One is, and I know this just shocks everyone, not every adventure is in a dungeon, or even a building. Sometimes you're on the road with a caravan, sometimes you're climbing a mountain so you can bitchslap Karzoug the Titanic Ten-Thousand Year Old Faggot off his throne.

Two, the point I was making wasn't if cavaliers themselves were a super duper class. The point was that anything a fighter could do -- especially in terms of fighting -- you could get more mileage out of with a cavalier. It's a deep flaw in the 3E system, perpetuated in the PF1 system.

EDIT: Just thought of this. @Jet Fuel Johnny do you have mundane/alchemical crafting in your game? How do you handle it? Because the 3E/PF1 crafting rules are complete ass.