Sperg about comic books here

[Lucifer's Rectum]

How? I thought he was possessed.

So god damned stupid. The worse part, the art was by Dale Eaglesham. Yes he completely fucked up Geoff Johns' rape reinvention of Billy Batson. But still, he's a half decent artist and they wasted him on that story.


There is, the only thing I remember from Azz's run, admittedly I was struggling with the series jumping from run to run because it was very Eurotrash/Vertigo was he made John Bi. It wasn't as offensively bad as some of the stuff I've seen, but it's not anything I'd recommend. Azz is one of those hit or miss guys. When he's on he's on (Luthor/FlashpointBatman/WonderWoman) and when he's off he's off (Superman/Cage).

He was posessed, but either way it was fucking garbage. Basically Barry found a way to neuter Wally's connection to the speed force, and then the thing possessing him jumped out, told Barry that he fucked up, immediately healed Wally and then went back inside him. Then he sent Barry to the speed force to feed on his hopelessness forever. At least that's what I got out of it.

I'm not particularly bothered by John being bi. It kind of makes sense to me that he'd be willing to fuck most things, but whatever. Speaking of Azz though, wasn't he one of the writers on Future's End? Why is it that every DC event starting with the word "Future" is complete shit?

 

[Prehistoric Jazz]

It's likely already in your feed, but this dcau jsa looks interesting

https://youtu.be/14I0DejYo54

 

[JimiHendrix]

What's wrong with Azarello's work? I haven't read any of it but I haven't heard anything really terrible about it either (not that I've looked).

off the top of my head? He made John fuck a dog while drunk. He made john have a sexual relationship with a 13 year old girl. And he made john bisexual for shock value. While making John bisexual isn't in of itself bad, infact I actually like that, Azarello did it purely for the shock of "hey this character who's only fucked women? well he sucks DICK now. how about that?"

I have seen 7 or 8 things from Azarello and i have not liked any of them so I just make it a rule of thumb to skip his work from now on.

Which never made much sense given that he once meticulously pulled his own soul apart in Paul Jenkins' run and apparently didn't find any trace of the Golden Boy then.

Golden Boy explains that the fusion didn't actually take and so he was fucking with John from his alternate reality. Which will making sense, I never cared for. Dislike the tragedy of John's life having a specific person to blame for. Really takes away from it/misses the point I feel.

 

[Tor Lugosi]

I remember Delano kinda hinting at John being bi and then a writer not long after outright having John talking about having boyfriends.

As for Diggle's run, yeah, I think he tried tying up loose ends of older Hellblazer plots but did it in the most hamfisted, fanservice-y way that ultimately felt weak. Still, his run was at least enjoyable.

Azzarello felt like he took the writing gig blind and then right before writing his first script he skimmed a description of John and went, "Oh, so he's an asshole occultist. Okay. Whatever." Which basically sums up his characterization of John. He also sets up a lot of shit that he just does nothing with -- like a big overarching plot of the FBI being interested in John but then barely does anything with it. He dedicated an entire issue to giving some mysterious book a backstory and then never brought it up again. His entire run was just the worst combination of lazy and edgy.

 

[JimiHendrix]

writer not long after outright having John talking about having boyfriends.

Yes, but this was done in literally 1 issue about John having a borderline panic attack in a possibly haunted laundromat, it was never brought up again until Azarello.

 

[Lucifer's Rectum]

It's likely already in your feed, but this dcau jsa looks interesting

https://youtu.be/14I0DejYo54

Hmm, seems weird to me that this is a movie set in the past featuring the Flash. Didn't the last set of animated DC movies end with everything being fucked and the Flash going into the past to fix it? Maybe they're implying that this is rebooting that timeline?

 

[Newman's Lovechild]

It's likely already in your feed, but this dcau jsa looks interesting

https://youtu.be/14I0DejYo54

I kept expecting Jonas Venture to show up and start hitting on Wonder Woman. Anyone else get that?

 

[Tor Lugosi]

The whole 'time traveling Flash' thing feels really uninspired. I think there's enough JSA WW2 stories they could've adapted, like the one about the Spear of Destiny and Ragnarok.

 

[kaien]

I kept expecting Jonas Venture to show up and start hitting on Wonder Woman. Anyone else get that?

With the show ending up God knows where, I'd buy a Justice League / Venture Bros book in a hot second. Warner owns all the IP involved, somebody oughta make it happen.

 

[jspit2.0]

He was posessed, but either way it was fucking garbage. Basically Barry found a way to neuter Wally's connection to the speed force, and then the thing possessing him jumped out, told Barry that he fucked up, immediately healed Wally and then went back inside him. Then he sent Barry to the speed force to feed on his hopelessness forever. At least that's what I got out of it.

That's...the worst Flash story ever written.

Welp, it was a good run gang but I think that's a wrap. Canonically Flash ended pre Infinite Crisis. Wally's still Flash, Jay sometimes pitches in, Barry's still dead, and Bart's Kid Flash. Nothing happened after that.

I'm not particularly bothered by John being bi. It kind of makes sense to me that he'd be willing to fuck most things, but whatever.

I didn't mean its offensive. I meant its the only thing about Azz's run that I can remember.

That's usually a bad sign when that's the only thing that sticks.

Speaking of Azz though, wasn't he one of the writers on Future's End? Why is it that every DC event starting with the word "Future" is complete shit?

Yes. To be fair, most DC events since 2005 have been dogs hit.

He might be thinking of John's absorption of the Golden Boy (John's twin brother from an alternate reality) that had been fucking with him up until he finally deals with it in Andy Diggle's run. Which never made much sense given that he once meticulously pulled his own soul apart in Paul Jenkins' run and apparently didn't find any trace of the Golden Boy then.

That must be it.

Anyway, yeah, the original Hellblazer from #1 - 250 (minus Brian Azzaerello's dumb shit, though he does occasionally have a decent idea) is great.

I read it because that's all I ever heard. But I struggled with it. I tried to give every run a chance though. Delano was frustrating because he embodied the best and worst of Vertigo, Ennis' first arc is amazing and then it went down hill. It all starts to blend together.

It's likely already in your feed, but this dcau jsa looks interesting

https://youtu.be/14I0DejYo54

I have little hope...

More info.

It looks like they're either going with the Byrne or Snyder revamp. Byrne retconned Hypolita as the JSA Wondy. That's okay, I didn't mind that. Scott Snyder, meanwhile, made Wonder Woman the first fucking DC superhero.

Apparently it seems Barry Allen will be in this via time travel.

Why can't DC just get this God damned concept. How hard is it. Clark Kent Superman, Bruce Wayne Batman and the JSA in the 40s to today. Generational heroes.

 

[Tor Lugosi]

I read it because that's all I ever heard. But I struggled with it. I tried to give every run a chance though. Delano was frustrating because he embodied the best and worst of Vertigo, Ennis' first arc is amazing and then it went down hill. It all starts to blend together.

I should probably preface my Hellblazer thoughts with the warning that I read most of it some 15 years ago now. The book caught my interest right when Mike Carey was finishing his run in 2006, and being the usual continuity sperg that I am I decided to start back as far as possible, which for here meant Alan Moore's Swamp Thing.

I liked Delano's run a lot but I can see why other people wouldn't -- it's very slow paced and ponderous at times, plus a tad too much "this is an allegory for current political stuff, do you get it" in some of his stories. I remember Fear Machine being my least favorite of his arcs. I loved the New Castle stuff and the Family Man arc; Delano really seemed best at the smaller, more personal stories whereas the bigger, more high concept ones tended to be hit or miss.

Dangerous Habits is a great story but I do think he peaked early with it and it's the sole reason for the popularity of Ennis' Hellblazer work. I remember liking his work overall on the book but beyond DH not really being wowed by anything.

For the four major runs on Hellblazer I'd probably rank them as:
Delano > Jenkins > Carey > Ennis
The first three are fairly close, with me giving Delano the edge due to being the one to really flesh out the character.

 

[kaien]

Dangerous Habits is a great story but I do think he peaked early with it and it's the sole reason for the popularity of Ennis' Hellblazer work. I remember liking his work overall on the book but beyond DH not really being wowed by anything.

Dangerous Habits vibes like one of those situations where someone pitches a world-class story that blows away the editors and gets them the job, and they don't think about what's going to follow it up. Like so many Image books that fall apart after a really good first arc.

I do have a soft spot for the birthday story where Swamp Thing supercharges the guy's weed, though.

 

[JimiHendrix]

I honestly think the majority of Ennis run was fine. The only parts that stood out to me as bad was the grave robbing story? was like 2-3 issues about people stealing corpses to test bullets on? It was stupid.

Then much much later he did the story about the fuckpig. The premise was good, the execution was stupid.

But basically everything he did with First of the Fallen I thought was pretty golden. First of the Fallen's final line of "Where will I go?" is really amazing. Which was then IMMEDIATELY undone by the next writer in line. Jenkins was it?

 

[Alexander Thaut]

He was around for four or five years. But you look back he and Adams were foils the same way Byrne and Perez were. Adams keeps getting praise and collections of his stuff.




JH williams, Chris Sprouse, Gene Ha, Kevin Nowlan, and Art Adams to name a few.

Adams is good but I don't see Steranko mentioned a ton outside of his Nick Fury stuff.

That's...the worst Flash story ever written.

Welp, it was a good run gang but I think that's a wrap. Canonically Flash ended pre Infinite Crisis. Wally's still Flash, Jay sometimes pitches in, Barry's still dead, and Bart's Kid Flash. Nothing happened after that.




I didn't mean its offensive. I meant its the only thing about Azz's run that I can remember.

That's usually a bad sign when that's the only thing that sticks.


Yes. To be fair, most DC events since 2005 have been dogs hit.


That must be it.

I read it because that's all I ever heard. But I struggled with it. I tried to give every run a chance though. Delano was frustrating because he embodied the best and worst of Vertigo, Ennis' first arc is amazing and then it went down hill. It all starts to blend together.



I have little hope...

More info.

It looks like they're either going with the Byrne or Snyder revamp. Byrne retconned Hypolita as the JSA Wondy. That's okay, I didn't mind that. Scott Snyder, meanwhile, made Wonder Woman the first fucking DC superhero.

Apparently it seems Barry Allen will be in this via time travel.

Why can't DC just get this God damned concept. How hard is it. Clark Kent Superman, Bruce Wayne Batman and the JSA in the 40s to today. Generational heroes.

I can get behind Diana as the first superhero on paper, but the problem is that the DC Trinity has always been a trinity and present in the same era. Hippolyta as JSA Wondy makes a ton of sense if they wanted to give us a Wondy for the JSA. It makes even more sense since she'd also be a foil to Hawkman's more brutal approach to combat since both are rather ancient.

But, I mostly want to see a Wondy that isn't a Mary Sue. Give her flaws. It's wartime and shit happens. Also, what about the Sandman or Crimson Avenger or etc. as proto-Superheroes? It'd make some sense to say that Wondy could be the first "Super"-hero, but let the old vigilantes pop up and give credit to where it's due. I sort of hope they don't totally fuck this up.

 

[Scarlett Johansson]

He might be thinking of John's absorption of the Golden Boy (John's twin brother from an alternate reality) that had been fucking with him up until he finally deals with it in Andy Diggle's run. Which never made much sense given that he once meticulously pulled his own soul apart in Paul Jenkins' run and apparently didn't find any trace of the Golden Boy then.

Anyway, yeah, the original Hellblazer from #1 - 250 (minus Brian Azzaerello's dumb shit, though he does occasionally have a decent idea) is great. I can't remember much about it now but I remember finding Peter Milligan's run really disappointing, which really sucked because it was the final run on the book. Milligan also wrote a really great John story in his Shade, the Changing Man series, which made me really look forward to his work when he was announced as a writer for Hellblazer.

Iirc John's always been bi. Nothing wrong with that. It makes him much more interesting. Plus gives credence to him always getting black out drunk and waking up with someone new each time. Most notably and recently satan

 

[Lucifer's Rectum]

That's...the worst Flash story ever written.

Welp, it was a good run gang but I think that's a wrap. Canonically Flash ended pre Infinite Crisis. Wally's still Flash, Jay sometimes pitches in, Barry's still dead, and Bart's Kid Flash. Nothing happened after that.



I didn't mean its offensive. I meant its the only thing about Azz's run that I can remember.

That's usually a bad sign when that's the only thing that sticks.

Yes. To be fair, most DC events since 2005 have been dogs hit.

More info.

It looks like they're either going with the Byrne or Snyder revamp. Byrne retconned Hypolita as the JSA Wondy. That's okay, I didn't mind that. Scott Snyder, meanwhile, made Wonder Woman the first fucking DC superhero.

Apparently it seems Barry Allen will be in this via time travel.

Why can't DC just get this God damned concept. How hard is it. Clark Kent Superman, Bruce Wayne Batman and the JSA in the 40s to today. Generational heroes.

It was pretty offensively bad tbh. As someone who grew up watching the DCAU shows and reading comics from around that era, Wally is my flash. He's who I grew up with and even now that I'm more familiar with Barry, I still prefer Wally. That story just hurt me. It goes against everything the Flash is supposed to be about, regardless of which Flash it is and that's sad.

In fairness you're right. If the only thing you remember about a run is one single change, that's a very, very bad sign.

I don't really mind not having Clark and Bruce being part of the JSA, tbh. I'm younger so I grew up with them already in the League, so that's probably why but I also feel like the JSA has enough interesting characters without Bats and Supes around. I've always really liked the idea of generational heroes though. I think its something that DC always did really well compared to Marvel, and hopefully will start doing again now that Death Metal is over. Being able to see the inspiration, those heroes of our heroes in action can be really special when handled well.

As an actial film though, I'm just happy to see the JSA get to be the center of attention. Legacy is important in comics, and I want to see more of it acknowledged. As for Barry being in this, I dunno I'm kind of iffy on that. It looks to me like it's the writers making a nod to the Apokolips War movie, but I don't really think it's necessary. Like I said, there's enough interesting things going on with the JSA that we really don't need Barry Allen showing up.

 

[jspit2.0]

I should probably preface my Hellblazer thoughts with the warning that I read most of it some 15 years ago now. The book caught my interest right when Mike Carey was finishing his run in 2006, and being the usual continuity sperg that I am I decided to start back as far as possible, which for here meant Alan Moore's Swamp Thing.

I'm in the same boat, I read through parts Hellblazer a while back.

I liked Delano's run a lot but I can see why other people wouldn't -- it's very slow paced and ponderous at times, plus a tad too much "this is an allegory for current political stuff, do you get it" in some of his stories. I remember Fear Machine being my least favorite of his arcs. I loved the New Castle stuff and the Family Man arc; Delano really seemed best at the smaller, more personal stories whereas the bigger, more high concept ones tended to be hit or miss.

New Castle is amazing and the Gary Lester stuff in the beginning is great.

There' this story in Planetary where Warren Ellis unintentionally makes my point on Vertigo.

Delano portrayed 80s London as a virtual hellscape with more roving bands of Nazis than the Wermacht and a leader that when she wasn't kicking puppies was stealing poor, state funded artists milk money.

Vertigo was very eye rolling when it got to those things because it was so divorced from reality. There have been generally hard times for London. The Blitz comes to mind.

For the four major runs on Hellblazer I'd probably rank them as:
Delano > Jenkins > Carey > Ennis
The first three are fairly close, with me giving Delano the edge due to being the one to really flesh out the character.

Huh? I remember Carey's run was really good, I'm going to need to check out Jenkins again because I've generally liked his stuff.

Dangerous Habits vibes like one of those situations where someone pitches a world-class story that blows away the editors and gets them the job, and they don't think about what's going to follow it up. Like so many Image books that fall apart after a really good first arc.

I do have a soft spot for the birthday story where Swamp Thing supercharges the guy's weed, though.

Hah, yeah. Remember when smoking weed was controversial and edgy? Again, a sign of how relatively innocent the 80s were.

Adams is good but I don't see Steranko mentioned a ton outside of his Nick Fury stuff.

He is, but he's kindof boring and his own worst enemy.

I can get behind Diana as the first superhero on paper, but the problem is that the DC Trinity has always been a trinity and present in the same era.

Superman needs to be first. It just, fits. Diana's a foreign entity/pagan goddess. Clark Kent is an farm boy from Kansas whose as American as Apple Pie. Same thing with Batman. He's not going to convince anyone superheroes are wholesome.

Hippolyta as JSA Wondy makes a ton of sense if they wanted to give us a Wondy for the JSA. It makes even more sense since she'd also be a foil to Hawkman's more brutal approach to combat since both are rather ancient.

But, I mostly want to see a Wondy that isn't a Mary Sue. Give her flaws. It's wartime and shit happens. Also, what about the Sandman or Crimson Avenger or etc. as proto-Superheroes? It'd make some sense to say that Wondy could be the first "Super"-hero, but let the old vigilantes pop up and give credit to where it's due. I sort of hope they don't totally fuck this up.

They're like Batman, I can believe Sandman was there first. But he wasn't lifting tanks or catching bullets in his teeth.

It was pretty offensively bad tbh. As someone who grew up watching the DCAU shows and reading comics from around that era, Wally is my flash.

It's the same for anyone under the age of fifty. But you look at who's responsible for bringing Barry back. How old are they? Was there one person in the room who grew up reading Wally West Flash?

I don't really mind not having Clark and Bruce being part of the JSA, tbh. I'm younger so I grew up with them already in the League, so that's probably why but I also feel like the JSA has enough interesting characters without Bats and Supes around.

They do, but it damages the actual concept. The JSA should be on Earth 2 and it should be an Earth where Superman debuted in the 30s. The whole world has aged since then with ongoing adventures. That's what the JSA and Earth 2 are supposed to be. But with every reinvention they get farther and farther from that.

They marginalize the JSA, have the be absentee parents, make them almost irrelevant after 1950, and with the last E2 by Robinson they just outright chucked the concept away entirely.

I've always really liked the idea of generational heroes though. I think its something that DC always did really well compared to Marvel, and hopefully will start doing again now that Death Metal is over. Being able to see the inspiration, those heroes of our heroes in action can be really special when handled well.

Future State has convinced me that isn't going to happen at the moment.

As an actial film though, I'm just happy to see the JSA get to be the center of attention. Legacy is important in comics, and I want to see more of it acknowledged. As for Barry being in this, I dunno I'm kind of iffy on that. It looks to me like it's the writers making a nod to the Apokolips War movie, but I don't really think it's necessary. Like I said, there's enough interesting things going on with the JSA that we really don't need Barry Allen showing up.

Maybe. They were in Batman the Brave and the Bold and I thought that did an okay job.

 

[Alexander Thaut]

It was pretty offensively bad tbh. As someone who grew up watching the DCAU shows and reading comics from around that era, Wally is my flash. He's who I grew up with and even now that I'm more familiar with Barry, I still prefer Wally. That story just hurt me. It goes against everything the Flash is supposed to be about, regardless of which Flash it is and that's sad.

In fairness you're right. If the only thing you remember about a run is one single change, that's a very, very bad sign.

I don't really mind not having Clark and Bruce being part of the JSA, tbh. I'm younger so I grew up with them already in the League, so that's probably why but I also feel like the JSA has enough interesting characters without Bats and Supes around. I've always really liked the idea of generational heroes though. I think its something that DC always did really well compared to Marvel, and hopefully will start doing again now that Death Metal is over. Being able to see the inspiration, those heroes of our heroes in action can be really special when handled well.

As an actial film though, I'm just happy to see the JSA get to be the center of attention. Legacy is important in comics, and I want to see more of it acknowledged. As for Barry being in this, I dunno I'm kind of iffy on that. It looks to me like it's the writers making a nod to the Apokolips War movie, but I don't really think it's necessary. Like I said, there's enough interesting things going on with the JSA that we really don't need Barry Allen showing up.

clark/bruce and their dynamic sort of got replaced by jay/alan in jsa stories.

I'm in the same boat, I read through parts Hellblazer a while back.

New Castle is amazing and the Gary Lester stuff in the beginning is great.

There' this story in Planetary where Warren Ellis unintentionally makes my point on Vertigo.

Delano portrayed 80s London as a virtual hellscape with more roving bands of Nazis than the Wermacht and a leader that when she wasn't kicking puppies was stealing poor, state funded artists milk money.

Vertigo was very eye rolling when it got to those things because it was so divorced from reality. There have been generally hard times for London. The Blitz comes to mind.


Huh? I remember Carey's run was really good, I'm going to need to check out Jenkins again because I've generally liked his stuff.



Hah, yeah. Remember when smoking weed was controversial and edgy? Again, a sign of how relatively innocent the 80s were.


He is, but he's kindof boring and his own worst enemy.

Superman needs to be first. It just, fits. Diana's a foreign entity/pagan goddess. Clark Kent is an farm boy from Kansas whose as American as Apple Pie. Same thing with Batman. He's not going to convince anyone superheroes are wholesome.

They're like Batman, I can believe Sandman was there first. But he wasn't lifting tanks or catching bullets in his teeth.

It's the same for anyone under the age of fifty. But you look at who's responsible for bringing Barry back. How old are they? Was there one person in the room who grew up reading Wally West Flash?


They do, but it damages the actual concept. The JSA should be on Earth 2 and it should be an Earth where Superman debuted in the 30s. The whole world has aged since then with ongoing adventures. That's what the JSA and Earth 2 are supposed to be. But with every reinvention they get farther and farther from that.

They marginalize the JSA, have the be absentee parents, make them almost irrelevant after 1950, and with the last E2 by Robinson they just outright chucked the concept away entirely.

Future State has convinced me that isn't going to happen at the moment.


Maybe. They were in Batman the Brave and the Bold and I thought that did an okay job.

yeah the idea of superpowered heroes needs Superman or something similar. If it came down to it, I'd rather see Jay Garrick or Alan Scott or eve Al Pratt/Carter Hall take that role for DC's legacy stuff. Wondy works but DC is so innately American that having an adult hero of any kind be the "first" and then all that other shit doesn't really meld together long term.

 

[Lucifer's Rectum]

Superman needs to be first. It just, fits. Diana's a foreign entity/pagan goddess. Clark Kent is an farm boy from Kansas whose as American as Apple Pie. Same thing with Batman. He's not going to convince anyone superheroes are wholesome.

They're like Batman, I can believe Sandman was there first. But he wasn't lifting tanks or catching bullets in his teeth.

It's the same for anyone under the age of fifty. But you look at who's responsible for bringing Barry back. How old are they? Was there one person in the room who grew up reading Wally West Flash?

Future State has convinced me that isn't going to happen at the moment.

100%. Imo having the age of heroes start with Superman is a must. There's no other real option tbh, like you said it just fits.

Thing is, it was Geoff Johns who brought Barry back right? He's what 48? That's on the younger side in the comics industry isn't it? At least compared to guys like Peter David and the like. Thing is Johns wasn't the only person that had a hand in it, most of the people that would have probably remember buying issues of Crisis when they were coming out.

I still haven't picked my jaw up off the floor with how bad Future State has been. I was tired before but DC has managed to make me not give a fuck about their entire line with this event, so that's fun. I'm really hoping for brighter days ahead but I think you're right that there won't be.

 

[Tor Lugosi]

Huh? I remember Carey's run was really good, I'm going to need to check out Jenkins again because I've generally liked his stuff.

I loved Carey's run, I just preferred Jenkins' characterization a bit more and his 'Critical Mass' arc is one of my favorites. That said, I've noticed that Paul Jenkins' work on the title seems to be very polarizing -- I've seen a lot of people who absolutely hated it.