Sperg about comic books here

[Prehistoric Jazz]

Parental heroes passing along their experiences, wisdom and interrupting the younger heroes' sex lives was a great thing. Eaglesham art made that Citizen Steel arc beautiful.

 

[jspit2.0]

I'm surprised Miller and Liefeld never worked on anything together or did they?

Nope. Miller didn't do much collaborating in the '90s. He did the Martha Washington books with Dave Gibbons, he wrote that one issue of Spawn, but I think that was about it. He was always adamant that Sin City was something he'd only do himself.

He co-wrote two issues of Madman

He also did the Spawn one off then followed that with Batman/Spawn

Miller's a loon and his art has gradually degenerated but he's always got his moments. I can still think back to stuff like the hamster wheel in Dark Knight 2 and just crack the fuck up.

Dovetailing with the Rob Liefeld discussion, the Judgment Day story that Moore wrote to blow up and reboot Rob's superhero universe is one I enjoyed a lot. It's hilarious on a meta level, because the message is essentially that all the stuff Rob did in the '90s and the larger industry trends that his comics represented were terrible mistakes.

Alan wrote twenty three issues of Supreme, all published. He wrote a prophet mini that never saw the light of day, something with Brigade.

After Judgment Day, he was given half the Liefeld verse. He relaunched YB with three issues published, the full year plotted out, and finished scripts for seven issues. He wrote Glory, which was Wonder Woman version of Supreme. Only half of its been published. Rob is sitting on dozens of Moore scripts. He sat on the last Supreme script until Erik Larsen made him publish it. A good portion leaked online and he was clearly retooling from them for ABC stories.

Roy Thomas was explicitly trying to kinda tie in story reasons for IRL things like why the JSA stopped appearing after '51 or why Hourman had an appearance gap in the 40s. Or why Al Pratt gained super strength. Etc.

It's not a bad approach, even if some of it was hit and miss. Amazing Man isn't a bad concept, far from it. He's pretty much peacefully assimilated into the larger DCU.

I can only speak for myself, but I got tired with every issue being about how awful America is/was and cartoon racism. I'll give this to Roy Thomas, Amazing Man is a nice character when he's not a soap box.

I think the thing is that the McCartyism causing superheroes to go into decline doesn't make a lot of sense pre-crisis since you literally had Superman and Wonder Woman as active icons.

However, I think that good old Senator McCarthy would probably have taken what the literal agent of divine will had to say. (Spectre).

Pretty much my sentiment.

That whole story could have been handled better, but as it is, I don't think it's too bad. Part of me wishes James Robinson's Golden Age was canon so we could have gotten some sort of plausible mistrust of superheroes beyond "Red Scare" stuff. Remember, this right after the war and according to Roy Thomas and other writers, the golden age superheroes were not only all on film and radio, but they were all officially backed by FDR and Churchill themselves. The news of Mystery-Men like TNT dying in fights with Nazi Superhumans did make it to publication. It sort of weirdly doesn't make a ton of sense since these superheroes would have been seen with as much public fervor as the big name allied generals were seen as public heroes post-war.

Hence, I think James Robinson's Golden Age should have been canonized. It makes a ton of sense, and they really didn't use Robotman/Mr. America/Dan the Dyno-mite in any capacity outside of Roy Thomas' All-Star Squadron.

Absolutely. Honestly Roy Thomas is one of those frustrating writers because when he isn't preaching at you his stories can be damn good.

That initial ten issue arc with Jerry Ordway on Infinity Inc alone is one of if not the greatest JSA stories of all time.

 

[Newman's Lovechild]

Yeah it's weird we have like Atom Smasher, and Damage

It took me a while to find out you didn't mean that sixteen-issue Hulk ripoff from a couple of years back.

Anyone here read The League Of Extraordinary Gentlemen? Like most people, I didn’t know prior to posting this that the movie was based on a comic strip series:

The first two volumes are some of my favourite comics, and I sperged as fully as any other autist when that terrible film adaptation came out. Although I can't say that the comics were much more mind-expanding and meaningful. I was younger and still under the impression that Alan Moore had very deep things to say. But he can come up with some decent character interactions and twists, and I give him some sort of credit and contempt for cramming that many victorian pulp references in them.
Also, I had seen the James Mason 20,000 Leagues film once, and I like dual-identity, uh, Jekyll and Hyde characters. I like what Moore did with Hyde, even though the character was overused as Moore's misanthropic mouthpiece. But hey, they all were. He was turned into more of a Hulk, but he's not misunderstood or oppressed, he's just a big, deformed shit, tagging along because he's trapped with Jekyll and because the british government will shoot him. But he's still understandable in a way, even though he's not entirely sympathetic, and he reflects how broken and fallen the other characters are.

To be honest that was one of the reasons I never read any further, alongside reviews talking about the bad and confused writing of the future stories. If they were just Mina and Quartermain mooning about, and Hyde and Nemo weren't in them, they were less interesting.

 

[Fromtheblackdepths]

It took me a while to find out you didn't mean that sixteen-issue Hulk ripoff from a couple of years back.



The first two volumes are some of my favourite comics, and I sperged as fully as any other autist when that terrible film adaptation came out. Although I can't say that the comics were much more mind-expanding and meaningful. I was younger and still under the impression that Alan Moore had very deep things to say. But he can come up with some decent character interactions and twists, and I give him some sort of credit and contempt for cramming that many victorian pulp references in them.
Also, I had seen the James Mason 20,000 Leagues film once, and I like dual-identity, uh, Jekyll and Hyde characters. I like what Moore did with Hyde, even though the character was overused as Moore's misanthropic mouthpiece. But hey, they all were. He was turned into more of a Hulk, but he's not misunderstood or oppressed, he's just a big, deformed shit, tagging along because he's trapped with Jekyll and because the british government will shoot him. But he's still understandable in a way, even though he's not entirely sympathetic, and he reflects how broken and fallen the other characters are.

To be honest that was one of the reasons I never read any further, alongside reviews talking about the bad and confused writing of the future stories. If they were just Mina and Quartermain mooning about, and Hyde and Nemo weren't in them, they were less interesting.

Certainly is. The Tempest was just: and the protagonists do nothing.

Especially evident in the 1960-1970 set comic, where the protags basically did nothing.

 

[kaien]

The first two volumes are some of my favourite comics, and I sperged as fully as any other autist when that terrible film adaptation came out. Although I can't say that the comics were much more mind-expanding and meaningful.

Yeah, people read very deeply into League sometimes, and that was never really my thing. I think for some reason folks assume that because Watchmen was a grand commentary on its genre, so is everything else Moore does. League isn't about pulp adventure fiction. It just is pulp adventure fiction. At least the first two stories. After that I think it does try to be about something, but I fuck me if I know what it is.

(The sixteen million in-references I have always interpreted as just dick-waving.)

 

[Alexander Thaut]

Smasher interacts with Al in a great moment in Johns JSA. I'm far saltier about OG Mr. Terrific and Roulette being left ambiguous.


Since you are a JSA man, I'd like to talk about the mixed feelings I have on the Thomas era JSA.

Given what we know now, that McCarthy was essentially right about deep penetration by communists, I don't know that the excuse for the OG JSA breaking up being the result of McCarthy holds up well. Then you have the pandering in Thomas' All-Star run, which got pretty cringe at times. Don't get me wrong, Thomas did some great stuff. But would I rather not have Roy Thomas lecture me about racism or whatever every three or four issues of my superhero book? Yeah.

Still great comics and if I'm ranking JSA runs it's probably third or fifth on my list.



Absolutely. But I don't thinks it's just age. McFarlane was older and so was Silvestri. Yet you have this whole Image generation and what is their contribution?

Todd McFarlane had one memorable two issue arc on Spidey that was the culmination of Tom Defalco and others Symbiote suit stuff. He had a decent run and Hulk, and some okay stuff at DC. But that's it, outside of a couple of years of Spawn, which most people agree is pretty but kindof junk.

Compare that to prior generations. Frank Miller and Walt Simonson (Daredevil and Thor), John Byrne and George Perez, (NTT and Uncanny X-Men), Neal Adams and Jim Steranko, (Nick Fury and Batman), or Jack Kirby and Steve Ditko. Thousands of issues with hundreds of characters still beloved and used. Todd? Venom, a take on the Symbiote suit. Rob? Deadpool and maybe Cable. Marc? Witchblade, a character he never drew an issue for. It's not just them. Guys like Joe Quesada and second generation figures are in the same boat.

The speculator boom encouraged a whole generation to produce less.

i wish dc would just put all the earth 2 stories from pre-crisis onto a tag or sth. its hard to find them bc they're often backup stories.

The Golden Age wasn't canon when it came out in 1993, but it gradually became canon after Zero Hour.

DC themselves say as much: How JSA: THE GOLDEN AGE Changed the Justice Society Forever

i mean sure i'm aware of this but i really wish that DC did something with Dyna-Hitler, Robotman, and Mr. America from that story. Think of the Pathos.

He co-wrote two issues of Madman

He also did the Spawn one off then followed that with Batman/Spawn



Alan wrote twenty three issues of Supreme, all published. He wrote a prophet mini that never saw the light of day, something with Brigade.

After Judgment Day, he was given half the Liefeld verse. He relaunched YB with three issues published, the full year plotted out, and finished scripts for seven issues. He wrote Glory, which was Wonder Woman version of Supreme. Only half of its been published. Rob is sitting on dozens of Moore scripts. He sat on the last Supreme script until Erik Larsen made him publish it. A good portion leaked online and he was clearly retooling from them for ABC stories.


I can only speak for myself, but I got tired with every issue being about how awful America is/was and cartoon racism. I'll give this to Roy Thomas, Amazing Man is a nice character when he's not a soap box.

Pretty much my sentiment.

Absolutely. Honestly Roy Thomas is one of those frustrating writers because when he isn't preaching at you his stories can be damn good.

That initial ten issue arc with Jerry Ordway on Infinity Inc alone is one of if not the greatest JSA stories of all time.

i enjoy roy thomas but man i think when he gets preachy, its just him phoning something in.

he's a consistently enjoyable writer and i overlook his preachy shit often.


i do wish they did more with johnny thunder in modern times than that one JSA story where ultra humanite body snatches him (or was it jakeem)

I think the funeral of Johnny Thunder was very well done. I legitimately like reading about Superhero funeral scenes because it's a sense of reality. While the Superman/Captain America ones went a tad overboard, they made sense.

The Bart Allen one was. . .

not good because Countdown was shit.

 

[jspit2.0]

i wish dc would just put all the earth 2 stories from pre-crisis onto a tag or sth. its hard to find them bc they're often backup stories.

I made a list a loooong time ago, but lost it.

A big problem is what is and isn't an official Earth 2 story. Collection wise, they've been very haphazard. They reprinted the Levitz era for the first time in years with the BoP and Doomsday supposedly reintroducing them to canon.

Even then, they omitted some crucial handful of Levitz stories. Out of some oop trades, you're stuck with digital comics, which are overpriced for what you're getting.

i enjoy roy thomas but man i think when he gets preachy, its just him phoning something in.

he's a consistently enjoyable writer and i overlook his preachy shit often.

Him and Denny O'neil/Neal Adams. Speaking of...

Man, I recently read Jim Steranko's X-men/Cap runs and they're so fucking good. It's criminal he doesn't get more attention and honestly his stuff was os much better than Adams.

i do wish they did more with johnny thunder in modern times than that one JSA story where ultra humanite body snatches him (or was it jakeem)

Well, he is the Thunder Bolt. He and the genie merge as one for awhile. Then Geoff just kindof gave up on that after IC for some reason.

I think the funeral of Johnny Thunder was very well done. I legitimately like reading about Superhero funeral scenes because it's a sense of reality. While the Superman/Captain America ones went a tad overboard, they made sense.

The Bart Allen one was. . .

not good because Countdown was shit.

Only if the death was permanent. Like Ted Knight's.

Certainly is. The Tempest was just: and the protagonists do nothing.

Especially evident in the 1960-1970 set comic, where the protags basically did nothing.

ABC was mixed. But none of it was great. What's really scandalizing is the insane artistic talent Moore got to draw what amounted to his Victorian fanfiction and troll book.

 

[Fromtheblackdepths]

ABC was mixed. But none of it was great. What's really scandalizing is the insane artistic talent Moore got to draw what amounted to his Victorian fanfiction and troll book.

Kevin O' Neil's art balanced between great or meh. I think Nemesis the Warlock was better.

 

[Alexander Thaut]

I made a list a loooong time ago, but lost it.

A big problem is what is and isn't an official Earth 2 story. Collection wise, they've been very haphazard. They reprinted the Levitz era for the first time in years with the BoP and Doomsday supposedly reintroducing them to canon.

Even then, they omitted some crucial handful of Levitz stories. Out of some oop trades, you're stuck with digital comics, which are overpriced for what you're getting.

Him and Denny O'neil/Neal Adams. Speaking of...

Man, I recently read Jim Steranko's X-men/Cap runs and they're so fucking good. It's criminal he doesn't get more attention and honestly his stuff was os much better than Adams.

Well, he is the Thunder Bolt. He and the genie merge as one for awhile. Then Geoff just kindof gave up on that after IC for some reason.


Only if the death was permanent. Like Ted Knight's.


ABC was mixed. But none of it was great. What's really scandalizing is the insane artistic talent Moore got to draw what amounted to his Victorian fanfiction and troll book.

johnny thunder merging with his thunderbolt was a weird thing.

Steranko gets love, but didn't he leave the industry after the 60s?

 

[Newman's Lovechild]

League isn't about pulp adventure fiction. It just is pulp adventure fiction. At least the first two stories. After that I think it does try to be about something, but I fuck me if I know what it is.

Volume 2 tries to insert some hand-wringing about colonialism as the martians invade, but it peters out quickly.
From what I understand, at least some of what comes later is about Moore's tantrum over JK Rowling.

What's really scandalizing is the insane artistic talent Moore got to draw what amounted to his Victorian fanfiction and troll book.

Oh yeah, that was the other thing - it introduced me to Kevin O'Neill's art. One of those times where I thought "this is some fucked up shit" but it quickly grew on me.

 

[jspit2.0]

johnny thunder merging with his thunderbolt was a weird thing.

Steranko gets love, but didn't he leave the industry after the 60s?

He was around for four or five years. But you look back he and Adams were foils the same way Byrne and Perez were. Adams keeps getting praise and collections of his stuff.

Kevin O' Neil's art balanced between great or meh. I think Nemesis the Warlock was better.

Oh yeah, that was the other thing - it introduced me to Kevin O'Neill's art. One of those times where I thought "this is some fucked up shit" but it quickly grew on me.

JH williams, Chris Sprouse, Gene Ha, Kevin Nowlan, and Art Adams to name a few.

 

[JimiHendrix]

i am reading tom taylor's final issue of Hellblazer rise and fall right now.

I still do not like it very much. The fact the demon just goes on a fucking murderous rampage in the middle of the city is a bit too super hero in my opinion. The only two events similar in the original hellblazer were the Hunger demon Gary Lester unleashed, which was understandably unknown to the public due to the nature of how it worked, and Mike Carey's The Beast event which was an outright apocalypse.

it's also just...weird details about it that makes me not know if Tom Taylor just isn't familiar with Constantine or doesn't care? Like why is Satan and Lucifer treated as the same character? They aren't. Satan/FotF and Lucifer are two separate people.

why does Thomas Constantine have both of his arms? I'm not going to get upset over Thomas being alive (despite the fact both Vertigo and DC Thomas are dead.), but why does he have both of his arms?

I don't want my complaints to be misunderstood, i'm not saying Taylor can't write his own story as he wants and everything must fit into continuity. It's not that if he wants Thomas alive or with both arms or whatever. then okay, fine. doesn't really matter.

just that ontop of the FotF shit makes it seem like he legitimately doesn't know these little details as opposed to wanting to change them for some reason?

really really don't like Satan and Constantine kissing.

really feels like just "OHHH isn't constantine WEIRD and into the OCCULT? look he KISSES the DEVIL"

this is something a lot of writers don't get correct about Constantine. He isn't friends with the supernatural. He doesn't like them. He doesn't like Angels, he doesn't like Demons. The one thing he has any level of sympathy for is often Ghosts, because they were at least one time human. The closest relationship he ever had with a demon as Eli, and he ended up manipulating her and fucking her over for his own benefit.

only relationship I ever saw him have with an Angel was Gabriel and that really didn't go so well for Gabriel.

He's not someone who is on friendly terms with the fucking devil and he most certainly isn't someone who would kiss him. Personally I like the fact Constantine is bisexual, but this is not the fucking way to go about it.

John redistributing the billionare's wealth to the people of England? that's fine. I believe he'd do that. People some how finding out he's the one who did it and lavishing praise on him for it? That's not typically how John's stories go and kinda defeats the purpose of it I feel. He's saved the world numerous times and no one ever knows, which is part of what contributes to his misanthropy.

Constantine's never been a great person and he's never been that shy about killing people, I mean after the first time at least. But him essentially being entirely cool with billionaire's getting murdered still feels a bit out of character, especially when the murderer's are supernatural forces.

and now for the final twist. How the Demon can only be defeated through happiness, so Satan get's Thomas to apologize for all the years of abuse and John uses a happy memory to beat the Demon after this revelation.

if you want my opinion of what Constantine would've done in this situation, which I assume you do since you read this far in my post, Constantine likely would've had a friend in the story, like the police girl in this one, who was happy and would've used her happiness to defeat the demon. Which in turn would've ruined her happiness and ruined their friendship. But he would've saved everyone else. That'd be much more in line with John Constantine.

 

[jspit2.0]

i am reading tom taylor's final issue of Hellblazer rise and fall right now.

I still do not like it very much. The fact the demon just goes on a fucking murderous rampage in the middle of the city is a bit too super hero in my opinion. The only two events similar in the original hellblazer were the Hunger demon Gary Lester unleashed, which was understandably unknown to the public due to the nature of how it worked, and Mike Carey's The Beast event which was an outright apocalypse.

it's also just...weird details about it that makes me not know if Tom Taylor just isn't familiar with Constantine or doesn't care? Like why is Satan and Lucifer treated as the same character? They aren't. Satan/FotF and Lucifer are two separate people.

why does Thomas Constantine have both of his arms? I'm not going to get upset over Thomas being alive (despite the fact both Vertigo and DC Thomas are dead.), but why does he have both of his arms?

I don't want my complaints to be misunderstood, i'm not saying Taylor can't write his own story as he wants and everything must fit into continuity. It's not that if he wants Thomas alive or with both arms or whatever. then okay, fine. doesn't really matter.

just that ontop of the FotF shit makes it seem like he legitimately doesn't know these little details as opposed to wanting to change them for some reason?

really really don't like Satan and Constantine kissing.

really feels like just "OHHH isn't constantine WEIRD and into the OCCULT? look he KISSES the DEVIL"

this is something a lot of writers don't get correct about Constantine. He isn't friends with the supernatural. He doesn't like them. He doesn't like Angels, he doesn't like Demons. The one thing he has any level of sympathy for is often Ghosts, because they were at least one time human. The closest relationship he ever had with a demon as Eli, and he ended up manipulating her and fucking her over for his own benefit.

only relationship I ever saw him have with an Angel was Gabriel and that really didn't go so well for Gabriel.

He's not someone who is on friendly terms with the fucking devil and he most certainly isn't someone who would kiss him. Personally I like the fact Constantine is bisexual, but this is not the fucking way to go about it.

John redistributing the billionare's wealth to the people of England? that's fine. I believe he'd do that. People some how finding out he's the one who did it and lavishing praise on him for it? That's not typically how John's stories go and kinda defeats the purpose of it I feel. He's saved the world numerous times and no one ever knows, which is part of what contributes to his misanthropy.

Constantine's never been a great person and he's never been that shy about killing people, I mean after the first time at least. But him essentially being entirely cool with billionaire's getting murdered still feels a bit out of character, especially when the murderer's are supernatural forces.

and now for the final twist. How the Demon can only be defeated through happiness, so Satan get's Thomas to apologize for all the years of abuse and John uses a happy memory to beat the Demon after this revelation.

if you want my opinion of what Constantine would've done in this situation, which I assume you do since you read this far in my post, Constantine likely would've had a friend in the story, like the police girl in this one, who was happy and would've used her happiness to defeat the demon. Which in turn would've ruined her happiness and ruined their friendship. But he would've saved everyone else. That'd be much more in line with John Constantine.

Wasn't he cursed or somethin'? Like no matter how much he wins, he also kindof get the shaft?

 

[Lucifer's Rectum]

i am reading tom taylor's final issue of Hellblazer rise and fall right now.

I still do not like it very much. The fact the demon just goes on a fucking murderous rampage in the middle of the city is a bit too super hero in my opinion. The only two events similar in the original hellblazer were the Hunger demon Gary Lester unleashed, which was understandably unknown to the public due to the nature of how it worked, and Mike Carey's The Beast event which was an outright apocalypse.

it's also just...weird details about it that makes me not know if Tom Taylor just isn't familiar with Constantine or doesn't care? Like why is Satan and Lucifer treated as the same character? They aren't. Satan/FotF and Lucifer are two separate people.

why does Thomas Constantine have both of his arms? I'm not going to get upset over Thomas being alive (despite the fact both Vertigo and DC Thomas are dead.), but why does he have both of his arms?

I don't want my complaints to be misunderstood, i'm not saying Taylor can't write his own story as he wants and everything must fit into continuity. It's not that if he wants Thomas alive or with both arms or whatever. then okay, fine. doesn't really matter.

just that ontop of the FotF shit makes it seem like he legitimately doesn't know these little details as opposed to wanting to change them for some reason?

really really don't like Satan and Constantine kissing.

really feels like just "OHHH isn't constantine WEIRD and into the OCCULT? look he KISSES the DEVIL"

this is something a lot of writers don't get correct about Constantine. He isn't friends with the supernatural. He doesn't like them. He doesn't like Angels, he doesn't like Demons. The one thing he has any level of sympathy for is often Ghosts, because they were at least one time human. The closest relationship he ever had with a demon as Eli, and he ended up manipulating her and fucking her over for his own benefit.

only relationship I ever saw him have with an Angel was Gabriel and that really didn't go so well for Gabriel.

He's not someone who is on friendly terms with the fucking devil and he most certainly isn't someone who would kiss him. Personally I like the fact Constantine is bisexual, but this is not the fucking way to go about it.

John redistributing the billionare's wealth to the people of England? that's fine. I believe he'd do that. People some how finding out he's the one who did it and lavishing praise on him for it? That's not typically how John's stories go and kinda defeats the purpose of it I feel. He's saved the world numerous times and no one ever knows, which is part of what contributes to his misanthropy.

Constantine's never been a great person and he's never been that shy about killing people, I mean after the first time at least. But him essentially being entirely cool with billionaire's getting murdered still feels a bit out of character, especially when the murderer's are supernatural forces.

and now for the final twist. How the Demon can only be defeated through happiness, so Satan get's Thomas to apologize for all the years of abuse and John uses a happy memory to beat the Demon after this revelation.

if you want my opinion of what Constantine would've done in this situation, which I assume you do since you read this far in my post, Constantine likely would've had a friend in the story, like the police girl in this one, who was happy and would've used her happiness to defeat the demon. Which in turn would've ruined her happiness and ruined their friendship. But he would've saved everyone else. That'd be much more in line with John Constantine.

I think you've hit the nail on the head with what's wrong with this book. It doesn't really feel like it's a Constantine story. Everything is just slightly off and out of character, and it kind of bothers me since we just had what I'd say was a pretty solid Hellblazer book that had just started to find its footing only to be cancelled. I'm pretty new to the Hellblazer comics, I've only watched the show with Matt Ryan when that was on and read some of the older stories like Dangerous Habits as well as the previously mentioned Simon Spurrier run. Even with my limited experience with John though, he really felt off in this. Like Tom Taylor likes the character but hasn't really figured out what makes him so compelling.

Edit: Unrelated but I didn't want to double post. Can we talk about how god-awful this week's issue of the Flash Future State arc was? Fuck this event, fuck that book, fuck all the edgelord nonsense they've been pushing of late, and fuck whoever it is that keeps letting writers screw with Wally.

 

[JimiHendrix]

Wasn't he cursed or somethin'? Like no matter how much he wins, he also kindof get the shaft?

john? no. not to anything i recall.

@Lucifer's Rectum

i don't know how to insert quotes while editing a post so i have to respond to you this way, but i'd suggest reading Hellblazer from issues 1 to issue 250, while skipping anything written by Brian Azzerello.

Dangerous Habits is good, probably the best, Simon Spurrier's run was also great. The TV show is ok but it fuses and mixes things up. They completely changed how Gary Lester's deal went, they merge Zed's story with the Rising Darkness and all that.

Jamie Delano is the first writer for Hellblazer and while he does some really bizarre weird shit at times that I don't care for, he also writes some near perfect stories like the Dead Boys Heart or what he did with Thomas Constantine. If you want two specific Constantine stories that are good though, check out Haunted and Hold Me.

 

[jspit2.0]

I think you've hit the nail on the head with what's wrong with this book. It doesn't really feel like it's a Constantine story. Everything is just slightly off and out of character, and it kind of bothers me since we just had what I'd say was a pretty solid Hellblazer book that had just started to find its footing only to be cancelled. I'm pretty new to the Hellblazer comics, I've only watched the show with Matt Ryan when that was on and read some of the older stories like Dangerous Habits as well as the previously mentioned Simon Spurrier run. Even with my limited experience with John though, he really felt off in this. Like Tom Taylor likes the character but hasn't really figured out what makes him so compelling.

Edit: Unrelated but I didn't want to double post. Can we talk about how god-awful this week's issue of the Flash Future State arc was? Fuck this event, fuck that book, fuck all the edgelord nonsense they've been pushing of late, and fuck whoever it is that keeps letting writers screw with Wally.

I raged on issue 1. I assume two was worse?

Hold Me.

I never really liked that one, Gaiman's a little twee for me. I really liked Dangerous Habits and it is probably the only Garth Ennis story from his run that didn't leave me bored.

 

[JimiHendrix]

I raged on issue 1. I assume two was worse?



I never really liked that one, Gaiman's a little twee for me. I really liked Dangerous Habits and it is probably the only Garth Ennis story from his run that didn't leave me bored.

aside frrom the lesbians i think it encapsulates the melancholy of Constantins world well.

 

[Lucifer's Rectum]

I raged on issue 1. I assume two was worse?

Significantly worse. It doesn't even have an actual conclusion. Barry fails and gets trapped in the speed force, Wally is still evil, nothing is resolved, and it ends by telling you "check out titans to see the end of the story!" except the titans future state book is fucking garbage too so fuck that.

@JimiHendrix
Neither do I, so we'll work with this.

i don't know how to insert quotes while editing a post so i have to respond to you this way, but i'd suggest reading Hellblazer from issues 1 to issue 250, while skipping anything written by Brian Azzerello.

Dangerous Habits is good, probably the best, Simon Spurrier's run was also great. The TV show is ok but it fuses and mixes things up. They completely changed how Gary Lester's deal went, they merge Zed's story with the Rising Darkness and all that.

Jamie Delano is the first writer for Hellblazer and while he does some really bizarre weird shit at times that I don't care for, he also writes some near perfect stories like the Dead Boys Heart or what he did with Thomas Constantine. If you want two specific Constantine stories that are good though, check out Haunted and Hold Me.

I read Jamie Delano's run, it wasn't bad and it was cool seeing the original versions of a lot of what goes on in the show, but I agree with you that there's a lot of weird shit in there. Some of it works, a lot of it doesn't work for me, and a lot of it is really slow moving which doesn't help I find. What's wrong with Azarello's work? I haven't read any of it but I haven't heard anything really terrible about it either (not that I've looked).

 

[jspit2.0]

Significantly worse. It doesn't even have an actual conclusion. Barry fails and gets trapped in the speed force, Wally is still evil, nothing is resolved, and it ends by telling you "check out titans to see the end of the story!" except the titans future state book is fucking garbage too so fuck that.

How? I thought he was possessed.

So god damned stupid. The worse part, the art was by Dale Eaglesham. Yes he completely fucked up Geoff Johns' rape reinvention of Billy Batson. But still, he's a half decent artist and they wasted him on that story.

I read Jamie Delano's run, it wasn't bad and it was cool seeing the original versions of a lot of what goes on in the show, but I agree with you that there's a lot of weird shit in there. Some of it works, a lot of it doesn't work for me, and a lot of it is really slow moving which doesn't help I find. What's wrong with Azarello's work? I haven't read any of it but I haven't heard anything really terrible about it either (not that I've looked).

There is, the only thing I remember from Azz's run, admittedly I was struggling with the series jumping from run to run because it was very Eurotrash/Vertigo was he made John Bi. It wasn't as offensively bad as some of the stuff I've seen, but it's not anything I'd recommend. Azz is one of those hit or miss guys. When he's on he's on (Luthor/FlashpointBatman/WonderWoman) and when he's off he's off (Superman/Cage).

 

[Tor Lugosi]

john? no. not to anything i recall.

He might be thinking of John's absorption of the Golden Boy (John's twin brother from an alternate reality) that had been fucking with him up until he finally deals with it in Andy Diggle's run. Which never made much sense given that he once meticulously pulled his own soul apart in Paul Jenkins' run and apparently didn't find any trace of the Golden Boy then.

Anyway, yeah, the original Hellblazer from #1 - 250 (minus Brian Azzaerello's dumb shit, though he does occasionally have a decent idea) is great. I can't remember much about it now but I remember finding Peter Milligan's run really disappointing, which really sucked because it was the final run on the book. Milligan also wrote a really great John story in his Shade, the Changing Man series, which made me really look forward to his work when he was announced as a writer for Hellblazer.