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- Oct 20, 2019
It is? Huh. Shows how much I follow DC. And interesting in the sense of holding one's attention.
Sperg about comic books here
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CowPox
kiwifarms.net
- Joined
- Mar 28, 2022
Does Erik Larson have autism?
- Joined
- Aug 11, 2020
Much worse.
Erik Larson has leftism.
- Joined
- Nov 24, 2022
Truly a man of the people.
- Joined
- Aug 7, 2018
1. When Crisis was being worked on, Marv Wolfman wanted it to end with a New 52 style reboot of the entire line. But pretty much everyone told Marv "No... Just No!" and it was dropped. But then editorial changed their mind but implemented it piecemeal, creating all sorts of continuity snarls, stories happening but not 100% as they were originally presented or only in the most broad strokes and no one really wanting to deal with it because of the house of cards nature of shit, especially after Mike Gold maliciously dropped the nuclear bomb that was Hawkworld the Ongoing Series onto the DC Universe and the 5 Years Later Legion run started shredding the Legion lore beyond repair.
2. Terra 3 is nice but largely INO in that Connors wanted to create a new baggage free version of Terra, with the by-the-by reveal that the Team Titans Terra was a soldier of Terra's subterranean race who was turned into Terra 1's double as a side effect of granting her powers with no one knowing Terra 1 was pure evil and Time Trapper kidnapping her and mindwiping her to use in the Team Titans as an unknowing mole to stop Hal Jordan/Hank Hall.
3. If Savage Dragon had ended with issue #100, it would have gone down as a beloved comic but it went on and on and on and became unbearably woke and raunchy and ultimately, full-on porn comic.
2. Terra 3 is nice but largely INO in that Connors wanted to create a new baggage free version of Terra, with the by-the-by reveal that the Team Titans Terra was a soldier of Terra's subterranean race who was turned into Terra 1's double as a side effect of granting her powers with no one knowing Terra 1 was pure evil and Time Trapper kidnapping her and mindwiping her to use in the Team Titans as an unknowing mole to stop Hal Jordan/Hank Hall.
3. If Savage Dragon had ended with issue #100, it would have gone down as a beloved comic but it went on and on and on and became unbearably woke and raunchy and ultimately, full-on porn comic.
CowPox
kiwifarms.net
- Joined
- Mar 28, 2022
Savage Dragon got close to going mainstream with the cartoon then seemed to just disappear back into a semi indy comic, i wonder if Erik is bitter about that and maybe killing dragon and subverting the comics original vibe was his way of "punishing" it in some weird way, i'm overthinking this and showing MY autism now...
- Joined
- Nov 24, 2022
It's probably impossible to explain an autistic thought process without sounding autistic.
- Joined
- Aug 7, 2018
The Savage Dragon cartoon was better than WildCATS but still heavily dumbed down and stripped of the world building stuff that made Savage Dragon work in those early years. Unlike Jim Lee (who claimed ignorance that WildCATs had to be dumbed down/censored for the cartoon version), Larsen was always upfront that the cartoon had to be bowdlerized just to exist, but generally ignores it because it didn't bring in any new readers to the comic due to there being no cross promotion in order to allow Larsen plausible deniability if the show flopped.
Also, replacing Dragon with his kid was done purely because no one was reading it save for a super die hard following by that point, combined with the porn turn the book went through, being done as a sales stunt to try and get new readers, as Larsen has been getting considerable amount of shit from the indie writers Image had been signing, over how Savage Dragon was still getting heavily featured in the yearly "Free Comic Book Day" spotlight issue that Image put out each year, instead of the indie books that are glorified movie pitches.
Also, replacing Dragon with his kid was done purely because no one was reading it save for a super die hard following by that point, combined with the porn turn the book went through, being done as a sales stunt to try and get new readers, as Larsen has been getting considerable amount of shit from the indie writers Image had been signing, over how Savage Dragon was still getting heavily featured in the yearly "Free Comic Book Day" spotlight issue that Image put out each year, instead of the indie books that are glorified movie pitches.
Arthur Morgan
kiwifarms.net
- Joined
- Sep 5, 2019
Considering some of the sperg rants he posted in the 90s, I'd say yes. I never read Savage Dragon, though I knew one guy who said it was one of the better written books when it comes to early Image.
Back in 2008/9, I was part of the Digital Webbing forum that helped writers and artists get help with improving their craft and also had a section where writers could pitch their books to artists (Either for free or for money) to try and help the up and comers get started. But this was when every indie book was getting a movie deal, so the majority of the writing pitches basically had a line like "There's no money now, but when this mini-series gets picked up by a movie studio, you'll get 60% of the profits." I always hated how it seemed most of the indie crowd were just there to try and get a movie deal instead of make something actually good. Damn you, Mark Millar.
ArthuriusMartyrius
kiwifarms.net
- Joined
- Jan 3, 2018
Oh, now I get it, you're literally autistic. So sorry, let's get back to the topic. Crisis on Infinite Earths wiped most of the pre-Crisis DCU clean. Just like the New 52. Which is what my original point was, which you are still dodging with the rest of your screeching nonsense, which I'll get to.
Yes. To make Superman the sole kryptonian. Which is among the many things I listed as DC TRYING TO WIPE OUT OLDER SHIT. Which you repeatedly seemed to not understand, which makes talking to you like trying to speak to a brick wall.
Coming from you, Mr. I Can't Do Reading Comprehension, that's hilarious.
It appeared, had great ideas and yes, good stories BEFORE DC shat the bed at the very end. Yes. I stated that in that very comment but your REEE-blinders are preventing you from seeing that apparently.
You had a whole world of Superman writers to pick from and those were your picks? Jesus. And yes, I have read them. John Byrne is an especially hilarious example because DC spent most of the subsequent decades walking back many of his changes.
Who gives a fuck what Denny O'Neil said when I'm analyzing what actually happened? COIE changed a shitload of things just like the New 52. A point of mine which you repeatedly seem to be dodging.
What fucking agenda, autist? This is exactly what I'm saying, you read "New 52 wasn't the sole mass-change reboot DC ever did, Crisis on Infinite Earths was another example" and you saw "New 52 was actually good, nerds" and went REEEEEE.
I made only one, sole, basic point which is so uncontroversial even a child would get it but you repeatedly misunderstand it whether through inability or just a plain refusal because in your brain that is somehow tantamount to admitting "New 52 GREAT".
Uh, good for you? Not really relevant to the point I was making but whatever. The only reason I brought up Superman and Barda vs. Morrison is because you tried to argue the absolutely inane point that post-COIE was nothing but successes while New 52 was nothing but failures and that somehow means that COIE wasn't also a massive reboot like New 52.
New 52 didn't erase absolutely everything just like COIE left some shit intact. The fact that you are trying to argue that DC relabeling Detective and Action with #1 as if that actually fucking changed any of the stories that happened (in Detective's case as with Batman overall, it changed zero) as some grand erasure is very telling. New 52 didn't render everything you collected worthless anymore than COIE erasing a shitton of pre-Crisis stories meant that everything you collected was now worthless.
"Yes COIE destroyed the entire multiverse, rebooted a bunch of characters and massively changed others but it was nothing like the New 52!"
I'd find this adorable if it weren't so sad.
You mean aside from Jay Garrick getting wiped from existence and Barry Allen's history being retconned?
Bruh, you sperged out first. I repeatedly told you what point I was trying to make but you are like a blind bull who imagined red. I don't give a shit about the New 52 or Crisis on Infinite Earths, both of those are in the past, so you can quit trying to play "gotcha" with me which is just making you look like a tard.
I told you several paragraphs above what point I was trying to make there, which you missed yet again.
He wrote 19 issues of what is widely considered some of the best Superman stories of the modern era. The fact that you have such a knee-jerk reaction to Morrison lightly referencing Superman's Golden Age past (you'd probably have an aneurysm reading actual Golden Age Superman stories judging by your reaction to this) is telling.
Jesus Christ, for someone that simps for Byrne so hard you sure do pick some of his most mediocre stories as "classics". I'm also starting to get an idea of WHY you hate New 52 so much that you can't even admit to the most basic points about it, which honestly makes you look even more like a sperg.
Yes, it turned him into a generic business bad man. Which DC ended up walking back by beginning to reincorporate Lex's mad scientist characterization after less than a decade. And don't give me that shit that "Byrne invented Lexcorp", he did not. Still a fun story though.
It's a story about Superman witnessing what would happen if kryptonians had migrated to Earth to escape Krypton's destruction, which Byrne answers with "they become Nazis and enslave humans" because Byrne had an obsession with making Krypton to be the worst fucking hellhole in the universe. It's not a meditation on anything except Byrne unintentionally writing what is an amusing anti-immigrant screed that would fit perfect in today's modern climate.
You know what actually is a "beautiful meditation on why Superman is MORE than a mean alien with powers beating up on normal people"? FUCKING ACTION COMICS BY MORRISON.
Yes, you have. As a complete sperg. Congratulations.
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In a thread called sperg about comics....
@ArthuriusMartyrius your clearly retarded and have shit tastes. I've made my point.
- Joined
- Aug 21, 2013
Out of New 52, I only read a large-ish portion of the Aquaman line, the Justice League line and some of the Batman line (Court of Owls, Death of the Family).
I actually liked a lot of it, but I get why people didn't like the run. It was also the precursor to a lot of the shit takes that still infect DC to this day (e.g.: Harley Quinn don't need no Joker, Batgirl's defining feature is her transgender allies, scantily-drawn women is heresy, etc.).
Wouldn't even try reading the modern stuff though. I still have a pile of older comics I intend to get through one day, it's just hard to find the time.
I actually liked a lot of it, but I get why people didn't like the run. It was also the precursor to a lot of the shit takes that still infect DC to this day (e.g.: Harley Quinn don't need no Joker, Batgirl's defining feature is her transgender allies, scantily-drawn women is heresy, etc.).
Wouldn't even try reading the modern stuff though. I still have a pile of older comics I intend to get through one day, it's just hard to find the time.
- Joined
- Aug 11, 2020
The Animal Man and Swamp Thing stuff was pretty good too.
Arthur Morgan
kiwifarms.net
- Joined
- Sep 5, 2019
I stopped buying newer comics when I realized the trade collections of older stuff was entertaining me way more than what was new. And from the sounds of things, it hasn't improved.
Enjoy your to-read pile.
- Joined
- Aug 7, 2018
@ArthuriusMartyrius is talking shit. The Morrison Action Comics run was widely reviled when it ran, with a good chunk of fans hating it and how inferior it was compared to All Star Superman (which itself could have run in the main Superman books with some rewriting) and how it was worse than Grounded or even the most impenetrable moments of late 00s Superman or 90s Triangle Era Superman.
Combine this with Morrison being a cunt who refused to cooperate with GEORGE FUCKING PEREZ, resulting in Perez having to write blind due to Morrison refusing to share ANY of the backstory changes (like the Kents being dead) with MOTHERFUCKING GEORGE PEREZ while hiding behind Action Comics being a flashback book, meaning Morrison made Perez the scapegoat for all of the reviled changes to the Superman status quo (like the elimination of the marriage) that made Perez ragequit after barely a handful of issues due to him refusing to take the blame for DiDio and Morrison's rape of the Superman mythos relating to regressing all of the progress to the Superman franchise since Byrne saved it with the Man of Steel reboot.
Also, not to throw shade but ArthuriusMartyrius? Are you Mark "pedo Gerald Jones did nothing wrong" Waid? Cause your autistic screeching against the Byrne reboot/white knighting Morrison reminds me of the pedo enabler's screeching regarding post-Crisis Superman.
Combine this with Morrison being a cunt who refused to cooperate with GEORGE FUCKING PEREZ, resulting in Perez having to write blind due to Morrison refusing to share ANY of the backstory changes (like the Kents being dead) with MOTHERFUCKING GEORGE PEREZ while hiding behind Action Comics being a flashback book, meaning Morrison made Perez the scapegoat for all of the reviled changes to the Superman status quo (like the elimination of the marriage) that made Perez ragequit after barely a handful of issues due to him refusing to take the blame for DiDio and Morrison's rape of the Superman mythos relating to regressing all of the progress to the Superman franchise since Byrne saved it with the Man of Steel reboot.
Also, not to throw shade but ArthuriusMartyrius? Are you Mark "pedo Gerald Jones did nothing wrong" Waid? Cause your autistic screeching against the Byrne reboot/white knighting Morrison reminds me of the pedo enabler's screeching regarding post-Crisis Superman.
- Joined
- Sep 22, 2015
But... but I liked Action Comics by Morrison...
It may be the cyclical nature of the medium. Nowadays, children and teens couldn't give a fuck about what is considered "a perennial classic" such as the John Byrne Man of Steel Origin, or Knightfall with classic Bane by Chuck Dixon, Graham Nowlan and Doug Moench. The closest and fastest thing they have to their new zoomer tastes are Bane: Conquest and -MAYBE- Superman Secret Origin by Geoff Johns. No one in this day and age by majority would source Emerald Dawn / Emerald Dawn II or Emerald Twilight, they'd go to Sinestro Corps or Blackest Night immediately and work backwards from there.
I saw the sales numbers... and the way the landscape was changing. It's definitely changed now. Pansexual/Bi Harley Quinn and Batgirl and the troon squad. Sales dipped sharply, but a new generation of readers are propped up by the current journos telling them what they should consume and what's the next hot item to read and consume again.
It was the same pattern that my generation went through with Wizard online before it was finally killed and supplanted by IGN and the rest of the current crop journos. When New52 hit, the in-demand stuff was Action, Batman, Wonder Woman, Flash and Green Lantern, together with a handful of titles after it was pared back from the previous glut. Frankly, after Issue #2, nobody gave a fuck about Perez's Superman or Detective Comics by Tony Daniel (great artist, terrible writer). There were about a handful of older guards trying to educate the younger readers about the contributions that Perez, Miller and Wolfman did for the medium and it was met with the same "why the fuck are you talking about stuff I don't care about" look that the zoomers around here do, before they bought their issues and we never saw them until the collected edition came out.
Then readcomiconline made the rounds... Now everyone's more concerned about League of Legends, Overwatch and Call of Duty. Comics is more or less dead except for the hardiest of the hardcore spending their eddies on this that went out of vogue as a hobby ten-twelve years ago.
I saw the sales numbers... and the way the landscape was changing. It's definitely changed now. Pansexual/Bi Harley Quinn and Batgirl and the troon squad. Sales dipped sharply, but a new generation of readers are propped up by the current journos telling them what they should consume and what's the next hot item to read and consume again.
It was the same pattern that my generation went through with Wizard online before it was finally killed and supplanted by IGN and the rest of the current crop journos. When New52 hit, the in-demand stuff was Action, Batman, Wonder Woman, Flash and Green Lantern, together with a handful of titles after it was pared back from the previous glut. Frankly, after Issue #2, nobody gave a fuck about Perez's Superman or Detective Comics by Tony Daniel (great artist, terrible writer). There were about a handful of older guards trying to educate the younger readers about the contributions that Perez, Miller and Wolfman did for the medium and it was met with the same "why the fuck are you talking about stuff I don't care about" look that the zoomers around here do, before they bought their issues and we never saw them until the collected edition came out.
Then readcomiconline made the rounds... Now everyone's more concerned about League of Legends, Overwatch and Call of Duty. Comics is more or less dead except for the hardiest of the hardcore spending their eddies on this that went out of vogue as a hobby ten-twelve years ago.
This ugly hobby we love is now theirs.
I just had to paraphrase Batman RIP.
Arthur Morgan
kiwifarms.net
- Joined
- Sep 5, 2019
That story actually explains a lot about Batman RIP, because it did not gel with the rest of the books and it felt like the other writers were trying to play catch up to Morrison. Maybe he was told he needed to cut that shit out afterwards. The Reborn era, before Bruce came back, everyone seemed more in sync with what he wanted, such as Red Robin hinting how Tim discovered Bruce was alive and later Batman and Robin showing Dick and Damien coming to that conclusion, plus having more human moments that expanded on Damien's insecurities while Morrison did his best to make him into the greatest badass of all time.
Pretty much. I myself was one of those people. I was buying Action Comics (Cornell), Superboy (Lemire), and Supergirl. I dropped all the Superman books after reading Morrison's Action #1 and have only read the Nu52 Superman online except for Johns JRJR's aborted run.
Grounded actually has to be on of the weirdest things because JMS only wrote four issues? No idea if it would have been as bad as it was if he'd actually been able to finish it.
It was five years so of course there was some good. But the bulk of the story telling and wholesale destruction buried it!
Plus, go back and look. The year before and the year after Flashpoint. Batman went from being drawn by Steve Scott to Greg Capullo. Wonder Woman went from Don Kramer to Cliff Chiang. Justice League went from Brett Booth to Jim fucking Lee.
Dan Didio purposefully sabotaged the books in the year leading up to Flashpoint to give Nu52 the best comparison point.
If you'd put Jim Lee and Geoff Johns on Justice League Pre-Flashpoint it would have sold gangbusters. Same with Greg Capullo on Batman.
But... but I liked Action Comics by Morrison...
It may be the cyclical nature of the medium. Nowadays, children and teens couldn't give a fuck about what is considered "a perennial classic" such as the John Byrne Man of Steel Origin, or Knightfall with classic Bane by Chuck Dixon, Graham Nowlan and Doug Moench. The closest and fastest thing they have to their new zoomer tastes are Bane: Conquest and -MAYBE- Superman Secret Origin by Geoff Johns. No one in this day and age by majority would source Emerald Dawn / Emerald Dawn II or Emerald Twilight, they'd go to Sinestro Corps or Blackest Night immediately and work backwards from there.
I saw the sales numbers... and the way the landscape was changing. It's definitely changed now. Pansexual/Bi Harley Quinn and Batgirl and the troon squad. Sales dipped sharply, but a new generation of readers are propped up by the current journos telling them what they should consume and what's the next hot item to read and consume again.
It was the same pattern that my generation went through with Wizard online before it was finally killed and supplanted by IGN and the rest of the current crop journos. When New52 hit, the in-demand stuff was Action, Batman, Wonder Woman, Flash and Green Lantern, together with a handful of titles after it was pared back from the previous glut. Frankly, after Issue #2, nobody gave a fuck about Perez's Superman or Detective Comics by Tony Daniel (great artist, terrible writer). There were about a handful of older guards trying to educate the younger readers about the contributions that Perez, Miller and Wolfman did for the medium and it was met with the same "why the fuck are you talking about stuff I don't care about" look that the zoomers around here do, before they bought their issues and we never saw them until the collected edition came out.
I didn't read those MoS comics in the 80s. I picked them up in trades and love them. So make of that what you will.
Good stories are timeless.
Good stories are timeless.
But what about it did you like? And was it Superman or was it another character altogether?
Morrison was allowed to basically run wild. The Bat books outside of Morrison were all pretty awesome. Paul Dini on Tec. Bryan Miller Stephanie Brown. Fabian and Dixon on Drake. Wolfman and Tomasi on Nightwing. Morrison's Batman was very hit or miss at the best of times.
- Joined
- Aug 7, 2018
For what it's worth, even Morrison dislikes his Action Comics run....But... but I liked Action Comics by Morrison...
Story goes, Morrison had to be begged by DiDio to write Action Comics, as Grant didn't think he could top All Star Superman and more to the point, sensed he was walking into a trap where fans would decry the bulldozering of the Byrne/Man of Steel status quo and the Supermarriage.
DiDio meanwhile DESPERATELY wanted a big name on Superman and more to the point, already sensed that George Perez was not happy with the mandates being flung around (like Clark/Lois being broken up and Lois fucking other guys), the fact that Jim Lee just chomping at the bit to officially hook Superman and Wonder Woman up, and Perez allegedly asking to preserve details from the Post-Crisis status quo and being pissy that Batman and Green Lantern both weren't rebooted like he was being forced to do Superman.
Adding to this, there is a rumor that Morrison was told that if he didn't take the book, that he wouldn't be offered a chance to write a solo Superman book ever again. As far as DiDio using the stick when the carrot of giving Morrison card blanche save for one thing* on the franchise didn't seem to work.
*The one thing being that Action Comics HAD to ship every month, to the point that while Morrison had to write a couple of filler issues that could be handed to super quick artists to churn out issues ASAP if Morrison's preferred artists didn't meet their deadlines. Which happened at least once in Morrison's run and led to one of the Morrison trades having their issues reordered to remove the filler story to the back of the book instead of the middle of the storyline.
Disagree. Morrison's Batman was a breathe of fresh air, especially Damien and the way that Damien to the brink of death Tim Drake in his introduction arc was a HUGE moment of fan service, given that Tim Drake spent the bulk of the late 90s and most of the 00s being an utterly unlikable piece of shit that thought his shit didn't stink and was untouchable. Watching him waltz in and put Tim in his place via violence and basically beat Tim so brutally that he effectively factory reset Tim's brain remains one of my favorite 00s comic moments.
The Black Glove/Jezebel Jet stuff was great, and Batman RIP remains one of my favorite Batman stories. And if you want to know why people LOVED Dickbats, it was 100% Morrison due to the garbage Winnick/Daniels stories being so god-awful that DC had to beg Morrison to do a three issue fill in arc that launched out of Batman #700 to stop the sales bleeding caused by the two. Not to mention that so many people were invested in Morrison's Batman run and saw Snyder's run as a piss poor bootleg version, that DC not only published the two unpublished issues of Batman Inc but also let Morrison finish the unfinished story he had to leave unfinished, but also gave him a new Batbook to wrap up his entire epic in.