Sperg about comic books here

[MirrorNoir]

I love talking about comic lolcows and Gerry Conway is such a faggot holy shit. He's been complaining about the misogyny of manga. Scott McCloud is also incredibly pretentious because he compared his "im a le epic athiest" comics to citizen kane

Conway spews the anti-life shit he spews (including 100% disowning his creation the Punisher, but also his early Black Widow solo work) because he DESPERATELY wants to be let back into Hollywood, as far as the fact that Conway is one of the few comic writers from the 70s and 80s that managed to get the dream job writing for TV (including Father Downy Mysteries and the Law and Order franchise, which included an episode with James Urbaniak playing a character named Roger Sterns, who Conway via his expy, portrayed as an incel who secretly infected "whores" with incurable diseases that cause them to die slow and horrifically agonizing deaths, if they failed his Madonna/Whore test where he introduced them to his Chad best friend, who had a habit of fucking any woman Stern showed interest in as a power flex against Stern.

Stern is infinitely pissy he's more known for his comic work (ignore what @jspit2.0 said) as Conway's got a pretty decent body of work comic-wise with TWO of the most famous Spider-Man runs, his original run and his Spectacular Spider-Man run. Along with being the guy who created Firestorm and Punisher and canonized Mary Jane as Peter's one true love by fridging Gwen. Which makes his contempt for comics and his previous works all the more tragic if not hillarious given that his SJW friends would never watch Father Dowling (his major claim to fame as a TV writer) due to it being pro-religion.

 

[ArthuriusMartyrius]

No it didn't. The Crisis pruned DC continuity. Stories like Adams and Oneills Demon and Swamp Thing by Moore still happened.

Further, the old stuff was brought back into canon in 2005-6 with Infinite Crisis.

Crisis wiped out over 90% of pre-Crisis continuity and characters, which were gradually brought back in various retarded ways (FFS do you people not remember how much bullshit DC went through in regards to Supergirl?) but because most modern comic fans weren't really around for that time period (most of that old guard decided to leave around the early 2000s) they really only remember the post-2000 period when a lot of that old shit was reincorporated into the DCU (like Infinite Crisis) and how it was reshuffled yet again in 2011.

So in that regard Crisis was EXACTLY like the New 52. Deleting a lot of shit but keeping just enough to create problems and then end up with even bigger problems later on when fans started bitching about their favorite stuff getting deleted and new writers who were fond of the old stuff doing a whole bunch of dumbass retcons to gradually bring it back. And now DC is stuck in the same position as they were before and in another 10 or 20 years, assuming they still even exist, we will get yet ANOTHER half-assed reboot which will create yet MORE problems.

Another thing that New 52 and Crisis have in common is that in both cases the shift to "restore" old stuff came because of Superman fans bitching about it, whether it was people bitching about Byrne's changes or people bitching that Superman wasn't married to Lois Lane anymore.

 

[jspit2.0]

Stern is infinitely pissy he's more known for his comic work (ignore what @jspit2.0 said) as Conway's got a pretty decent body of work comic-wise with TWO of the most famous Spider-Man runs, his original run and his Spectacular Spider-Man run.

Famous or good? He fridged Spidey's girl and introduced a character that Mike Baron and others fleshed out and made great.

For me, I just had a moment where after reading his manga comments I had to think back and try to remember a single comic of his that I loved for his writing...couldn't think of one.

Different story on others. Busiek, for example, despite being a cunt wrote some great stuff over on Astro City. Props.

Crisis wiped out over 90% of pre-Crisis continuity and characters, which were gradually brought back in various retarded ways

That's quantifiably false. It left Batman, Flash, Teen Titans, et al mostly intact.

(FFS do you people not remember how much bullshit DC went through in regards to Supergirl?)

What do you mean? Linda Danvers? Cir-El?

The idea was Superman as the Last Son and surviving Kryptonian. And given how badly New Krypton damaged the Superman books at the end; maybe they had the right idea?

but because most modern comic fans weren't really around for that time period (most of that old guard decided to leave around the early 2000s) they really only remember the post-2000 period when a lot of that old shit was reincorporated into the DCU (like Infinite Crisis) and how it was reshuffled yet again in 2011.

The problem was, fans knew about the 90s/80s and creators who wrote that stuff moved on. Not to say there wasn't great stuff. Levitz on Legion, Roy Thomas on JSA.

But trade collections weren't were they are today.

Enter the 00s and DC has the perfect storm. You have Geoff Johns who is a mega silver age fanboy and Dan Didio who is all about iconic aka not comic portrayals of characters.

So the people that don't read your comics think Kara Zor El is Supergirl? Well, that's going to be Supergirl. Barbara Gordon was in the cartoons and tv show, not Cassandra Cain. So on.

So in that regard Crisis was EXACTLY like the New 52. Deleting a lot of shit but keeping just enough to create problems and then end up with even bigger problems later on when fans started bitching about their favorite stuff getting deleted and new writers who were fond of the old stuff doing a whole bunch of dumbass retcons to gradually bring it back.

Not at all. Are you trying to defend the New 52 in some bizarre way?

First, if you read comics you'd know that most series continued after the crisis with some minor changes to continuity. The only major reboots I can think of were Superman, Wonder Woman, and books with heavy multiverse flavoring like Justice League.

Almost all of those runs were big sellers and remain favorites by the fanbases.

Second, the post crisis work was good. Crisis gave us Year One Batman; Nu52 gave us the awful Zero Year and bunny batman.

And now DC is stuck in the same position as they were before and in another 10 or 20 years, assuming they still even exist, we will get yet ANOTHER half-assed reboot which will create yet MORE problems.

Crisis wasn't a universe wide reboot.

Another thing that New 52 and Crisis have in common is that in both cases the shift to "restore" old stuff came because of Superman fans bitching about it, whether it was people bitching about Byrne's changes or people bitching that Superman wasn't married to Lois Lane anymore.

Huh? You mean Infinite Crisis?

 

[DaBigBopper]

I feel like I'd care about Western creators if they weren't so compartmentalized. I'm more into manga and the few Euro comics I like are all very old, generally mangakas can typically do rough sketches or draw. ONE is the biggest example of someone who is more of a writer, but still has a solid grasp of composition and paneling. When I see a mangaka rip off a scene from a horror movie, I feel like it's because they liked the composition of the shot. When a Western writer does it, it feels like they told a writer to include it because.
I don't really blame Stan Lee for this, that guy was a Salesman who captured an audience and was the best hypeman in the industry.

I'm being an East Vs West faggot, but it just feels like the West really bought into the whole "disturbed visionary/ cultured artist" bullshit rather than being skilled at their craft first and foremost. I'm actually trying to learn to draw and it feels like their is a big cultural break during the 70's. Books published in the late 70's start sacrificing this being a trade for it being an "art".

 

[Nick Obre]

Enough of bitching about bad comics.

Here's a good comic:

DO A POWERBOMB! by Daniel Warren Johnson (both writer and artist, for you @BeepBoopBeepBoop)

It's a comic about wrestling, magic, family, parenthood, legacy, courage, sacrifice, loss, and WRESTLING!

Great kinetic art, endearing characters, good antagonists, beautiful and emotional story, and WRESTLING!

It's short and sweet, just 7 issues (last came out today), and it has that Lucha Underground feel that, even if you're not into wrestling, you may still enjoy it from the style of presentation, the outrageous energy, and the glorious bravado of it all.
And there's an incredibly touching story underneath.
It's the first thing I've read in ages that I read and said "YES, I'M GONNA BUY THIS THE FIRST CHANCE I HAVE".



READ DO A POWERBOMB YOU FUCKING FAGGOTS

 

[CowPox]

Starting "Road to Onslaught" tpb, got it for 4.99 at Ollies. btw.

 

[Liquid Kent]

Abit of a spergy write-up but I'm bored at work at 4am right now.

I still swear up and down that AoA is the most impactful crossover/alternate universe I've ever seen. (And experienced)

Mind you, I grew up on BtAS and the DCAU, but my dad is a huge Wolverine fanboy as much as he is a Batman one (I had the fortune of being in a household with first printings of the Weapon X collection and the leather-bound Dark Knight Returns) so I was exposed to the heyday of 90s storytelling at its peak.

But AoA escaped me and all I remember of the memories are of thin gold trades at an upmarket bookstore where the older kids and guys were discussing and flocking about. It wasn't until I was at my first job selling comic books at a comic store that I found out more about Age of Apocalypse thanks to the internet, and the 10th anniversary series that I had also missed.

I committed to hunting down the gold trades in my late teens, all of them- from the Legionquest prologue trade to Dawn, all the miniseries and Twilight and by the end of the week I was a changed young man.

I called up my girlfriend and told her I needed to see her and I loved her. That ending, the one where the final pages are framed in an "X" with the affirmation of "zero."... That always gets me.

 

[CowPox]

Abit of a spergy write-up but I'm bored at work at 4am right now.

I still swear up and down that AoA is the most impactful crossover/alternate universe I've ever seen. (And experienced)

Mind you, I grew up on BtAS and the DCAU, but my dad is a huge Wolverine fanboy as much as he is a Batman one (I had the fortune of being in a household with first printings of the Weapon X collection and the leather-bound Dark Knight Returns) so I was exposed to the heyday of 90s storytelling at its peak.

But AoA escaped me and all I remember of the memories are of thin gold trades at an upmarket bookstore where the older kids and guys were discussing and flocking about. It wasn't until I was at my first job selling comic books at a comic store that I found out more about Age of Apocalypse thanks to the internet, and the 10th anniversary series that I had also missed.

I committed to hunting down the gold trades in my late teens, all of them- from the Legionquest prologue trade to Dawn, all the miniseries and Twilight and by the end of the week I was a changed young man.

I called up my girlfriend and told her I needed to see her and I loved her. That ending, the one where the final pages are framed in an "X" with the affirmation of "zero."... That always gets me.

I always remembered aoa as the point where the coloring in comics began to look different, like the resolution was higher or something?

 

[jspit2.0]

Starting "Road to Onslaught" tpb, got it for 4.99 at Ollies. btw.

Abit of a spergy write-up but I'm bored at work at 4am right now.

I still swear up and down that AoA is the most impactful crossover/alternate universe I've ever seen. (And experienced)

Mind you, I grew up on BtAS and the DCAU, but my dad is a huge Wolverine fanboy as much as he is a Batman one (I had the fortune of being in a household with first printings of the Weapon X collection and the leather-bound Dark Knight Returns) so I was exposed to the heyday of 90s storytelling at its peak.

But AoA escaped me and all I remember of the memories are of thin gold trades at an upmarket bookstore where the older kids and guys were discussing and flocking about. It wasn't until I was at my first job selling comic books at a comic store that I found out more about Age of Apocalypse thanks to the internet, and the 10th anniversary series that I had also missed.

I committed to hunting down the gold trades in my late teens, all of them- from the Legionquest prologue trade to Dawn, all the miniseries and Twilight and by the end of the week I was a changed young man.

I called up my girlfriend and told her I needed to see her and I loved her. That ending, the one where the final pages are framed in an "X" with the affirmation of "zero."... That always gets me.

Starting "Road to Onslaught" tpb, got it for 4.99 at Ollies. btw.

Nice find. Yeah, Jeph Loeb, for all his faults, wrote some damn good stuff in the 90s and 00s.

I think Amazing Spider-man and Spiderfags may be worse than X-heads.

Say what you want about X-Men as a franchise; but from the beginning of Uncanny to the 90s that book had the top artistic talent. Kirby, Steranko, and Adams in the 60s, Cockrum and Byrne in the 70s, and Silvestri and fill ins by guys like Alan Davis and BWS in the 80s, then Jim Lee in the 90s.

Compare that to Amazing where you get based Ditko killing it for the 60s, only to get replaced by the Archie like Romita, to bleh and meh art in 70s and early 80s. Who's the big regular Amazing artist between Ditko(maybe Romita?) and McFarlane? Ron Frenz?

 

[Arthur Morgan]

Nice find. Yeah, Jeph Loeb, for all his faults, wrote some damn good stuff in the 90s and 00s.

I think Amazing Spider-man and Spiderfags may be worse than X-heads.

Say what you want about X-Men as a franchise; but from the beginning of Uncanny to the 90s that book had the top artistic talent. Kirby, Steranko, and Adams in the 60s, Cockrum and Byrne in the 70s, and Silvestri and fill ins by guys like Alan Davis and BWS in the 80s, then Jim Lee in the 90s.

Compare that to Amazing where you get based Ditko killing it for the 60s, only to get replaced by the Archie like Romita, to bleh and meh art in 70s and early 80s. Who's the big regular Amazing artist between Ditko(maybe Romita?) and McFarlane? Ron Frenz?

It'd be interesting to see what would have happened had Frank Miller gotten his wish to stay on Spider-Man and eventually been able to write the stories instead of his Daredevil run. Now I love his run on DD, and it helped make the book stand out and give it it's own character, so to speak, but imagine the world where a restrained Frank Miller worked on Spidey, still able to do some crime noir stuff but under more editorial control and required to do more humor. Would Elektra have been a possible love interest like Black Cat for Peter instead of Matt? Would we still have gotten books like The Dark Knight Returns? Similarly, what if Neil Gaiman's Green Lantern pitch was picked up and he stayed on regular superhero books instead of doing stuff like Sandman?

I like thinking about things like that. Probably autistic but whatever.

 

[Quantum Diabetes]

You guys listen to comic podcasts? I like Jay and Miles X-plain the X-men and Here comes the Spider-cast, the more fed up with the shit issues they are the more entertaining they are,

 

[Tor Lugosi]

Famous or good? He fridged Spidey's girl and introduced a character that Mike Baron and others fleshed out and made great.

I'd definitely say 'good'. His development of Peter and MJ's relationship is great, the arc making Harry into the Green Goblin is good, and the Clone Genesis / Jackal's arc is terrific and builds up well over the course of his run. Conway's later concurrent Spectacular & Web runs are also incredible (only somewhat letdown by a partially weak ending as Conway ran off to Hollywood). The only people I've ever known to dislike Conway's work on Spider-Man are Dan Slott simps.

 

[jspit2.0]

I'd definitely say 'good'. His development of Peter and MJ's relationship is great, the arc making Harry into the Green Goblin is good, and the Clone Genesis / Jackal's arc is terrific and builds up well over the course of his run. Conway's later concurrent Spectacular & Web runs are also incredible (only somewhat letdown by a partially weak ending as Conway ran off to Hollywood). The only people I've ever known to dislike Conway's work on Spider-Man are Dan Slott simps.

Never said dislike. But yeah, I loathe Dan Slott's Amazing Spider run and don't like Conway. Interesting way to put it. Are you implying something?

I've read the highlights, including what you mention and thought they were either boring or okay. Limp. Artistically pale. I find allot of the Spooderman stuff that way. Maybe it's the way people talk up these issues like their God's gift or something and they pale not just to what preceded them but to what was going on in concurrent books.

But then again, I'm not a fanboy of Spider-man and came to these issues long after they were published. I don't have those goggles on when looking at Conways work.

I see him more from the DC side. Justice League Detroit and shit like that.

It'd be interesting to see what would have happened had Frank Miller gotten his wish to stay on Spider-Man and eventually been able to write the stories instead of his Daredevil run. Now I love his run on DD, and it helped make the book stand out and give it it's own character, so to speak, but imagine the world where a restrained Frank Miller worked on Spidey, still able to do some crime noir stuff but under more editorial control and required to do more humor.

Maybe, but there's two Frank's at the time. Frank the artist and Frank the Writer.

He was already insanely acclaimed for his artwork, not just on Daredevil but quite a few Spider-man and other series. As long as he still drew Wolverine, we'd have gotten Frank because he was in love with Will Eisner's Spirit and everything he did was influenced by that.

Spider-Man would have been in a stronger place. But most people don't realize how much prime Frank Miller Marvel/DC cost us.

There was supposed to be a Doc Strange comic/even was an advert that never came through. Also supposed to be more Daredevil, but Marvel broke its word to Miller on that, if I'm remembering right. Then there's DC. Apparently he had a Wonder Woman pitch they didn't take. It kindof sucks. All the stuff editors/creators screwed up over the years.

Similarly, what if Neil Gaiman's Green Lantern pitch was picked up and he stayed on regular superhero books instead of doing stuff like Sandman?

Oh man. Not just GL. Gaiman was paid for a Batman script he never turned in and was supposed to do Swamp Thing after Veitch. He left out of solidarity over DC censoring the fully drawn and written last temptation of Christ thing.

I'm not a huge fan of Gaiman's though, so I don't know how I'd feel. I loved Moore's and Veitch's Swamp Thing and Gaiman's work would have been far better Nancy Collins or Wheelers. Add to that I don't like Sandman so who knows?

I like thinking about things like that. Probably autistic but whatever.

It's not. It's cool to picture what might have been.

What if Marvel told the image founders to fuck off? Would Claremont and Louise Simonson have done something cool with the X-books in the 90s?

For that matter, what if Jim Shooter had succeeded in his initial plan to return to Marvel via takeover rather than start Valiant?

Or what if Paul Levitz had been more ambitious with the 80s/90s artists?

What if Joe Q hadn't leaked Azbats to Wizard? Imagine him headlining Batman in the 90s.

 

[Tor Lugosi]

Never said dislike. But yeah, I loathe Dan Slott's Amazing Spider run and don't like Conway. Interesting way to put it. Are you implying something?

No, I'm not accusing you of being a loathsome Slott fan. It was just something that I remembered when typing that up -- over the years in the fandom the only ones I've seen truly hate Conway are the ones that think Slott is the definitive Spider-Man writer and feel OMD was both good and necessary. If you really want a bad Conway Marvel run, his Ms. Marvel stuff is godawful -- pretty much the equivalent of today's SJW shit, complete with J. Jonah being a retarded sexist for no reason.

 

[jspit2.0]

No, I'm not accusing you of being a loathsome Slott fan. It was just something that I remembered when typing that up -- over the years in the fandom the only ones I've seen truly hate Conway are the ones that think Slott is the definitive Spider-Man writer and feel OMD was both good and necessary. If you really want a bad Conway Marvel run, his Ms. Marvel stuff is godawful -- pretty much the equivalent of today's SJW shit, complete with J. Jonah being a retarded sexist for no reason.

Yeah, his Ms. Marvel, sadly, isn't an isolated occurence...

I don't hate Conway. I just had that moment like, who the fuck is this guy again?

I know Roy Thomas. I know Len Wein (RIP). Massive love for Roy (Conan) and Wein (Swamp Thing). But Conway? I just don't have anything he's done that would justify his feeling of entitlement. He was one of the Stan Lee clones Lee got to script comics so Lee could shop Marvel around Hollywood. But, unlike others; he never really emerged from Stan's shadow. I mean, is anyone on here championing Firestorm or JL Detroit? I'm hearing Spider-man, but that's a pre-built house and not one I think Conway made better than when he found it.

His stuff at DC had that weird relevance crap too. It was Stan's unintended legacy. I do think these conversations have black pilled me on Amazing Spider-man.

 

[MirrorNoir]

Conway kept the tone Stan started and more to the point, cut the Gordian shipper knot once it became apparent that fans preferred MJ over Gwen and murdered Gwen to clear the path for the preferred fan couple.

But most of all, his Spectacular Spider-Man run is widely regarded as one of the BEST Spider-Man runs in the modern era as he fleshed out the Robertson family and gave them a major spotlight, while creating Tombstone, who while not as popular as Venom, was a major threat to Spider-Man that continues to be a major figure in the Spider-Man books these days.

Also, Gerry's Firestorm is widely loved and is generally considered to be the best of DC's various attempts to create their own Spider-Man clone. To the point that a LOT of Firestorm fans despise the Ostrander run that followed Gerry's, due to how Ostrander ditched the slice of life stuff in order to do darker, edgier shit with cold war intrigue and Firestorm having multiple personalities and being a fire elemental.

 

[ArthuriusMartyrius]

That's quantifiably false. It left Batman, Flash, Teen Titans, et al mostly intact.



What do you mean? Linda Danvers? Cir-El?

The idea was Superman as the Last Son and surviving Kryptonian. And given how badly New Krypton damaged the Superman books at the end; maybe they had the right idea?



The problem was, fans knew about the 90s/80s and creators who wrote that stuff moved on. Not to say there wasn't great stuff. Levitz on Legion, Roy Thomas on JSA.

But trade collections weren't were they are today.

Enter the 00s and DC has the perfect storm. You have Geoff Johns who is a mega silver age fanboy and Dan Didio who is all about iconic aka not comic portrayals of characters.

So the people that don't read your comics think Kara Zor El is Supergirl? Well, that's going to be Supergirl. Barbara Gordon was in the cartoons and tv show, not Cassandra Cain. So on.



Not at all. Are you trying to defend the New 52 in some bizarre way?

First, if you read comics you'd know that most series continued after the crisis with some minor changes to continuity. The only major reboots I can think of were Superman, Wonder Woman, and books with heavy multiverse flavoring like Justice League.

Almost all of those runs were big sellers and remain favorites by the fanbases.

Second, the post crisis work was good. Crisis gave us Year One Batman; Nu52 gave us the awful Zero Year and bunny batman.



Crisis wasn't a universe wide reboot.



Huh? You mean Infinite Crisis?

1) I'm genuinely not sure if you are trolling by claiming that Crisis on Infinite Earths didn't wipe the slate clean in a similar manner to New 52 or if you somehow thought I was referring to Infinite Crisis.

2) Linda Danvers and that whole Matrix nonsense, Cir-El was some other stupid bullshit about Superman's future daughter which I can't be arsed looking up now, and that came about because DC tried to wipe the slate clean with Kara. New Krypton was actually a fucking awesome idea that gave us some of the best stories of the late post-Crisis Superman era that got completely fucked up at the end because DC are incompetent morons and panic whenever someone does something even remotely interesting with Superman.

3) What are you even trying to say here? Yes, DC brought up back a lot of pre-Crisis stuff gradually over the years AFTER Crisis on Infinite Earths because fans were bitching about it being wiped. Much like DC decided to backpedal on the way New 52 wiped a lot of shit only a few years after doing it. That is my only point I was making here yet you seem to have somehow got into your head that "OMG somebody is saying the New 52 wasn't the crappiest crap that ever crapped in DC comics!" and went REEEEEE.

4) My point exactly. No, it wasn't "minor changes". Superman, Wonder Woman, Flash, Green Lantern, Aquaman, Hawkman. Fuck even Batman got like half his pre-Crisis history wiped along with a substantial amount of his rogues' gallery despite you claiming otherwise with DC reincorporating his classic stories back into continuity in later years through "re-imagined" takes. Yes, some stuff remained more or less unaffected but in that regard it was exactly like the New 52.

Also, some post-Crisis work was good. New 52 gave us Morrison's Action Comics' Superman, post-Crisis gave us Superman and Barda making a porno. See how that works?

 

[jspit2.0]

1) I'm genuinely not sure if you are trolling by claiming that Crisis on Infinite Earths didn't wipe the slate clean in a similar manner to New 52 or if you somehow thought I was referring to Infinite Crisis.

I genuinely don't know if you understand what that fucking means. Wiped clean means NO FUCKING STORY PRIOR TO CRISIS STILL EXISTED IN CONTINUITY!

They factually still did. I referenced stories that were in continuity before and after crisis. I acknowledge that the Nu52 was shit. The end.

2) Linda Danvers and that whole Matrix nonsense, Cir-El was some other stupid bullshit about Superman's future daughter which I can't be arsed looking up now,

Speaks volumes.

and that came about because DC tried to wipe the slate clean with Kara.

I explained the purpose and intention of that.

New Krypton was actually a fucking awesome idea that gave us some of the best stories of the late post-Crisis Superman era that got completely fucked up at the end because DC are incompetent morons and panic whenever someone does something even remotely interesting with Superman.

So your just a fucking moron?

New Krypton appeared and got blowed up. The end. It was a fucking disaster and the fact you describe washed up James Robinson and hack Greg Rucka's meaningless story that changed nothing and was going nowhere as some of the best speaks volumes?

Have you read John Byrne? Dan Jurgens? God Damn Joe Kelly? DC has done lots of great and interesting things with Superman. You should actually read something other than Geoff Johns era shit.

Fucking New Krypton. Get some taste.

3) What are you even trying to say here? Yes, DC brought up back

confusing as fuck the way you phrase that.

a lot of pre-Crisis stuff gradually over the years AFTER

How? When Denny O'Neil who was in charge of the Bat titles at the time has stated he didn't consider the CIOCE as a complete reboot changing things and he was editing the damn book!

I'm done being nice. So explain. How did DC eliminate pre crisis Alan Moore Swamp Thing? The NTT Judas contract?

Maybe just maybe you're wrong?

Crisis on Infinite Earths because fans were bitching about it being wiped. Much like DC decided to backpedal on the way New 52 wiped a lot of shit only a few years after doing it. That is my only point I was making here yet you seem to have somehow got into your head that "OMG somebody is saying the New 52 wasn't the crappiest crap that ever crapped in DC comics!" and went REEEEEE.

And there we have it. Your agenda. You liked some of the Nu52.

But whatever. You failed to make your point. You stated, 'b-but there da same' then dropped in the REEE to insult me because you don't have substance.

I actually think some good work came out of the Nu52. Bully/Superman was shit. But Azzerallo and Chiang did a great turn on Wonder Woman. Lemire and Sorrentino did a good Green Arrow run.

But was erasing everything necessary? The destruction of the Nu52 was disproportionate to the okay runs; most of which could have been done without irrevocably shattering the oldest imprint in comics. And it did that. It nuked Detective and Action. It caused irreparable damage to the brand and told you those comics you collected? They were worthless. Didn't happen. Flashpoint made it so they never happened. CIOCE didn't erase things, it destroyed what happened in every other earth but the prime one, tweaking here and replacing characters that were broken.

4) My point exactly. No, it wasn't "minor changes". Superman, Wonder Woman, Flash, Green Lantern, Aquaman, Hawkman. Fuck even Batman got like half his pre-Crisis history wiped along with a substantial amount of his rogues' gallery despite you claiming otherwise with DC reincorporating his classic stories back into continuity in later years through "re-imagined" takes. Yes, some stuff remained more or less unaffected but in that regard it was exactly like the New 52.

Like half? really? That's...kindof ridiculous. Flash even more so. What exactly did they erase from the Flash except for the multiverse aspect? Do you even know?

You just make baseless claims, insult me, then fail to respond. Why are you reaching so fucking hard with this? Oh, you liked the Nu52....

Also, some post-Crisis work was good. New 52 gave us Morrison's Action Comics' Superman, post-Crisis gave us Superman and Barda making a porno. See how that works?

There you go. So desperate to drag post CIOCE DC down, elevate Nu52 up. You fucking attack John Byrne Superman.

Morrison wrote a year and a half of bully Superman in jeans hanging a man off of a balcony and wanting the Justice League to be more socially conscious. His shit interpretation was rejected after five years.

John Byrne wrote classic stories such as Action 600, explaining why WW and Superman don't work as a couple, Superman 2, which redefined Lex Luther as a villain, and Superman 18, which is a beautiful meditation on why Superman is more than a mean alien with powers beating up on normal people. His take was so definitive that it lasted over twenty years and, despite people like you, was so beloved its still being reprinted and brought back into continuity.

You've more or less exposed yourself. Morrison's Action Comics; Rucka and Robinson's garbage run as among classics.

 

[Overly Serious]

Dipped into some DC just to see if there was anything interesting (not really) and noticed there is a current series about Terra. The young villain and Deathstroke fangirl from Titans? Okay - flips open, no - apparently a different but related character, same powers.


Fairly low-stakes soap opera stuff but I mention here purely to observe that I recall at least three direct shoe-horned in mentions that she's underage in as many issues, including one where a cop wants to hit on her; and she's routinely drawn either nude or near-nude (think Austin Powers style obscuring body parts). I think one of the creators is channelling his fantasies about 15 year olds.

 

[jspit2.0]

Dipped into some DC just to see if there was anything interesting (not really)

In what sense?

and noticed there is a current series about Terra. The young villain and Deathstroke fangirl from Titans? Okay - flips open, no - apparently a different but related character, same powers.
View attachment 4028340

Okay that's from over a decade ago.

Fairly low-stakes soap opera stuff but I mention here purely to observe that I recall at least three direct shoe-horned in mentions that she's underage in as many issues, including one where a cop wants to hit on her; and she's routinely drawn either nude or near-nude (think Austin Powers style obscuring body parts). I think one of the creators is channelling his fantasies about 15 year olds.

Yeah, are you...huh?

That was a mini-series by Amanda Conner and Jimmy Palmiotti. From a long time ago. You can tell because Amanda actually drew it.